S/O Pro-life or Pro-choice thread

Masters/Kilgore

MrsAO:

So here's the hangup I've always had...and it doesn't necessarily speak to my opinion on the subject, it's just something that sort of bothers me...

For those who are against abortion for religious reasons, I don't get how you could be pro-life.  Taking a life is taking a life right?  If you believe life starts at conception or before, then a life is a life.  That doesn't change because a person commited a heinous crime.  The commandment is thou shall not kill. Not thou shall not kill except... It's deciding when and how somebody dies, period.  And if you're pro-life because of religious reasons, I want to understand how you can be okay with that.

My pastor just spoke about this at church last Sunday.  He said the commandment is thou shall not kill, but in the bible it also says that if a man/woman murders another human being, then they should be murdered themselves.  If a person accidentally kills someone (like it's not intentional, maybe car accident, etc) then they should not be murdered.  He also said abortion is killing innocent lives and it doesn't even compare to a murderer.  I personally am pro-life and against the death penalty.  I'm only against the death penalty because I think the system is messed up and I would hate for someone to die that was innocent.

Mrs.Carlybella

berry25:

Mrs.Carlybella:

berry25:

Mrs.Carlybella:

well i misread the part about treason thinking you categorized it with rapes-  but i am still confused about where the heinous line is drawn.  Raping 5 year olds is as heinous to me as an extremely planned, meditated murder.

I think you are still misunderstanding what I wrote.  I think the death penalty should be for the most heinous types of murders.  To me, the death penalty is reserved for those who take a life, particularly those who take a life in the most horrendous ways possible.  It doesn't mean I don't think other crimes are heinous, and I'm sure that people who are completely against the death penalty would also agree that rapes and conspiracy are heinous crimes. 

no- i am just stating my opinion that those kinds of crimes,  while not murders, are still as heinous as you get-  in my opinion. I am not trying to come down on yours.

OK.  But I look at it this way - if there is any incentive for a child rapist not to kill his victim during the crime, that's a good thing.  If a child rapist gets the same penalty for raping his victim as he does killing him, why would he let the child live?

 

a very valid point...  I completely see what you are saying, but I also have to wonder how rational someone doing that is and if they are thinking of consequences

long story short- some people suck LOL

pharmacygirl

DNK777:

I'm pro-life and for the death penalty.  There's a big difference between a baby and a murderer.

 

Me too!! - you have to believe that abortion is murder if you know anything about when Life begins.  Life begins at conception and contrary to what is being forced down our throats in the media - life does not start when the baby implants, or at day 5 or at 6 weeks.  That is why I can't stand the Plan B comercial - it is a complete lie that it is not an abortion.  It is just the earliest form of an abortion without the guilt of knowing if you actually were ever pg.

Kandie35

Being ProChoice is bigger than whether or not you support abortions. It means that the government has no business creating and enforcing laws governing the reproductive status of female bodies. I have six children (four i gave birth to and two i adopted) and I have another on the way...but I have taken my daughter and her friend to DC to ProChoice marches.

As far as the capital punishment issue is concerned, I am neither for nor against it. I think it happens so rarely that it is not worth the tax payers money to house and represent that person for the average what..ten or so years they sit on death row. Additionally, the laws that govern whether or not someone should be up for death sentence belittle the value of every single victim's life (meaning: why should the murder of one group be an automatic death sentence while that of an "ordinary" citizen is not valued as highly and death sentence is not even considered?). Furthermore, it is awfully short-sighted to think that a country founded by people who came here to escape religious persecution should judge its diverse citizens/tax payers according to a religious book that which not everyone subscribes or has even read! (in reference to the eye for an eye comment).

CalinsBride

If you take plan B the day you have sex, fertilization will not occur and you will not get pregnant.

I took it once, about two hours after a condom breaking incident. Trust me, nothing was fertilized.

MissTGH

I am pro choice and I am somewhat against the death penalthy it depends on the crime.

HeyyRed

CalinsBride:

HeyyRed:

That was NOT one of his main platforms. He may support an expansion of options available to woman but that sounds more like hysterical sensationalization for propaganda purposes than actual platform fact.

CHOICE is CHOICE.

In Holland, euthanasia is legal as well. Did you know that statistically speaking, in countries that have greater freedoms around decisions of choice - body/life death, there are significantly reduced stats on violent crimes. Same with countries with more tolerant policies around recreational drug use.

Food for thought.?

So I should be able to choose anything? Even to murder someone?

Trust me, I didn't believe that he supported late term abortions either, because who would support that, it's monstrous, but after researching direct quotes from him and watching interviews, I have come to conclude that he is just fine with killing a full-term baby as long as its inside the mother's womb at the time of death.

And euthenasia has nothing to do with this. If someone asks to die after the reach a certain point in their illness, that's their business. No one's asking the 8 month old baby what their choice is.

I can't accept your 'research'. It's rhetoric and not based on any facts.?

CalinsBride

HeyyRed:

CalinsBride:

HeyyRed:

That was NOT one of his main platforms. He may support an expansion of options available to woman but that sounds more like hysterical sensationalization for propaganda purposes than actual platform fact.

CHOICE is CHOICE.

In Holland, euthanasia is legal as well. Did you know that statistically speaking, in countries that have greater freedoms around decisions of choice - body/life death, there are significantly reduced stats on violent crimes. Same with countries with more tolerant policies around recreational drug use.

Food for thought. 

So I should be able to choose anything? Even to murder someone?

Trust me, I didn't believe that he supported late term abortions either, because who would support that, it's monstrous, but after researching direct quotes from him and watching interviews, I have come to conclude that he is just fine with killing a full-term baby as long as its inside the mother's womb at the time of death.

And euthenasia has nothing to do with this. If someone asks to die after the reach a certain point in their illness, that's their business. No one's asking the 8 month old baby what their choice is.

I can't accept your 'research'. It's rhetoric and not based on any facts. 

That's fine. I'm just saying, I heard it from his mouth. I didn't believe people about it until I heard it myself, either. And I am not against Obama, by the way. I think its good that he won, I just dont agree with this one thing.

J&MsMom

For those who are using the Bible to justify the death penalty and you are a Christian, Jesus told us it is not our place.  That is why he prevented the crowd from stoning the woman found to have committed adultery.  Also, if you believe in Jesus, then you must believe in original sin and you must believe that even an unborn child isn't innocent.

HeyyRed

J&MsMom:

For those who are using the Bible to justify the death penalty and you are a Christian, Jesus told us it is not our place.? That is why he prevented the crowd from stoning the woman found to have committed adultery.? Also, if you believe in Jesus, then you must believe in original sin and you must believe that even an unborn child isn't innocent.

The majority of people in the world do not believe in Jesus.?

CalinsBride

J&MsMom:

For those who are using the Bible to justify the death penalty and you are a Christian, Jesus told us it is not our place.  That is why he prevented the crowd from stoning the woman found to have committed adultery.  Also, if you believe in Jesus, then you must believe in original sin and you must believe that even an unborn child isn't innocent.

I think you're referring to me, and I don't actually support the death penalty. I was quoting the Bible to explain why others do support it. Also, you should be aware that not all Christians believe in original sin. That is a highly debatable topic. But it just seems that common sense would dictate that a fetus has not done anything wrong--if they are a sinner, it is because of their human nature, not because of their actions. . .there is a difference.

mommabarker09

People always told me I would change my mind about being pro-choice once I had a child (because they know me SOO well) but I am still pro-choice. Personally, I couldn't even consider "it" as an option, but I want that choice to be there if I choose it and for anyone else as well. As for people who abuse it and use it as birth control... hmm maybe those should be the ones getting the death penalty?! JK

 I'm not sure how I feel about the death penalty. For one, there are so many cases where someone is convicted and then evidence later proves them innocent. Even cases where they had DNA evidence that supposedly proved their guilt. For two, in my opinion death isn't the worst thing that could happen to a person. By killing them you aren't making THEM pay for their crime... you are making their family. They may suffer for a moment, but then it's over. If you put them in prison for the rest of their life they are forced to live with their decision, and if their crime is horrible enough most of the time the other inmates will give them the punishment we REALLY think they deserve.

 

Just my opinions.

J&MsMom

All humans (according to the New Testament) are sinners.  So a fetus that hasn't been born hasn't sinned but they will according to their nature.  This is my opinion or belief even, it is in the Bible.

HeyyRed

Bible arguments only work for those individuals who believe and follow in it. That's not the majority of people in the world, but that's your choice and it is respected.

jayhawkgirl25

Here is my question. Why do animals have more rights then the unborn??

Jenn30

When it comes to the death penalty, there is no way to assure that an innocent person will never be executed.  None.  Look at all the death penalty convictions that have been overturned.  It's virtually certain that innocent people have already been executed in this country.  The execution of a single innocent person, to me, erases any validity the death penalty might have otherwise. 

My second problem with the death penalty is that I don't really understand its function.  It has been shown in numerous studies not to work as a deterrant (ie prevent others from committing similar crimes).  It is more expensive than life in prison.  And our criminal justice system can guarantee that an individual will be kept in prison for life, so there's no argument about using it to keep someone off the streets for ever.  The fact is, the death penalty is just about revenge, nothing more.  It's base emotion.  I would like to think that as a society, we're better than that.  But I guess we're not.

FWIW, I'm pro-choice, but to me these two issues are totally different.

Bride7-7-07

I am 100% hands down pro-life.  I am swayed on both sides of the death penalty and agree/disagree with it.

1. I don't believe in it because I don't think that people should be playing God in a sense in choosing who lives and dies.  Also, if a person truly feels remorse and wants forgiveness for their actions - I think that they deserve to suffer, rot in jail, and live with what they did for their entire lives.

I do believe in it because if someone is not remorseful for their actions, then they get the easy street by being in jail while someone else and their families have to suffer for their rest of their lives because of someone else's actionc.  I think that they need some type of punishment that causes them to suffer, but I don't know if it should be death.