IF Testing & Treatment w/o 12/13

optimistgardener · December 2021

This is a place for those of us who have already started TTC, but have started infertility testing and/or treatments. You can express your thoughts, feelings, and frustrations on infertility. TTC can be a long journey naturally, then add in the difficulties associated with infertility, and it becomes a whole new ball game. The road to infertility can be lonely, frustrating, and complicated, so let's make this a place where we can vent, ask questions, and support one another. Feel free to resurrect this thread at any point in the week if you have something to say. Treat this as an ongoing conversation.

Diagnosis (if you've been):

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):

How are things going?:

Any questions?:

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)?

fantasyflyte · December 2021

Diagnosis (if you've been): PCOS, MFI

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): wfaf

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): first medicated IUI and letrozole once CD1 hits

How are things going?: not bad, getting a bit nervous now that CD1 is approaching, but excited. I also need to call the clinic today and find out what we should do re: insurance and prior auths given my IUI will flirt with the new year.

Any questions?: Those of you who have taken letrozole, how did it affect O? I'm nervous about when the IUI will actually fall since our insurance company is changing Jan. 1, so I'm hoping it does make me O sooner than normal.

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)?

I don't know if we really have any that we break. When I was a kid, we'd open one gift on Christmas Eve (from my parents or when we got a bit older, from a sibling), but my husband and I don't do that because we usually only have one gift each lol.

kiki047 · December 2021

@fantasyflyte I think you'll find you'll get mixed answers for this Q but for me, I'm a chronically late ovulator and letrozole helped move that up by a few days. It also gave me extreme hot flashes so I prefer to take it at night.

Diagnosis (if you've been): PCOS, RPL/RIF, MFI

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): Are you going to make me say it? *muttering under my breath* ... WFAF...

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): Just took my second to last pill of a 5 day regimen of Provera to bring on my mysteriously absent period. Biopsy booked for the 21st, then hopefully we can finally move on from limbo.

How are things going?: Emotionally, better. As much as I don't love being overly medicated, I know my body needs the support and I honestly would rather micromanage it through meds. This helps my brain to relax a little too and not feel like I'm constantly on edge waiting to see what's going to happen (or not happen) next.

Any questions?: NATM.

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)? MH and I don't exchange gifts, not for Christmas or birthdays or Valentine's Day, etc. We said from the beginning that we'd rather share experiences together, so we try to plan trips around our birthdays or little getaways, and just buy each other things if we see something throughout the year (which is usually me, I do 95% of the shopping for our household). It's not exactly cheaper, but we love to travel and this way we take turns planning so it doesn't always fall on one person.

hanshotfirst77 · December 2021

Sorry I wasn’t around last week. Huge crisis at work kept me pretty busy. Hoping this week is quieter so I can be more active.

@kiki047 I’m glad you were able to get the provera. Hope AF isn’t too bad and you can finally move forward.

@fantasyflyte I didn’t notice any O issues when I was on it.

Diagnosis (if you've been): PCOS, Unexplained secondary IF, Unexplained RPL

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): Waiting for FET prep

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): Waiting for January. Continuing plans of eating healthy and losing weight. I’m 3.5 pounds away from my goal weight.

How are things going?: Af should be coming next week which would mean only 1 more cycle til it’s go time! Super excited about that.

im exhausted though. Pulled into a crazy work disaster over the weekend that’s continuing now. On the plus side I made a bunch of overtime but I’m super tired and coffee isn’t cutting it.

Any questions?:

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)?
I don’t think I break any that I had from when I was a kid.

I don’t really do any NYE stuff though. I’ve never been into it. I don’t care to watch the ball drop or go out to a ridiculously expensive set menu or something. Usually I have to work anyway so it’s just another day to me.

shortstack930 · December 2021

@fantasyflyte it's been a long time since I took letrozole but I feel like it made me O a couple of days earlier.

@kiki047 glad you have a plan and you're finally getting out of limbo!

@hanshotfirst77 looks like we should be doing a FET around the same time! Hope your work disaster resolves quickly.

Diagnosis (if you've been): Endometriosis

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): WTO

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): FET prep

How are things going?: I'm glad to be moving on to next steps. AF showed up last week so I'm just waiting to start OPKs this week. Once I get a positive I'll start on estrogen again to build up my lining and we'll hopefully be doing our next FET mid-January. It's nice not to have to worry about PIO over the holidays. I'm hoping to get all of my FET meds ordered by next week so that they'll be covered under insurance because I have to pay out my deductible all over again in January.

Any questions?: Nope

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)?
We always aim to put up Christmas lights outside of our house but it's actually 50/50 if we actually do it or not. We always decorate inside though.

gingermama29 · December 2021

@fantasyflyte I also always have late O so I’m probably not the best for giving an answer. Prior to this cycle, I usually O’d around CD 21ish on Letrozole.

@kiki047 oh i love your tradition you break. Experiences are definitely better than gifts! Glad you’re doing better emotionally despite feeling over medicated (man do I feel that right now).

@hanshotfirst77 congrats on being so close to your goal weight!! That’s so exciting! And also same about NYE.

@shortstack930 glad you don’t have to worry about PIO over the holidays. Sounds like you have a good plan going forward. FX your meds get ordered before your deductible starts again.

Diagnosis (if you've been): PCOS

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): WTO

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): Letrozole, metformin, myo-inositol, estrace, PNV, and TI

How are things going? Things are good. I saw my RE for another US today after re-dosing last week. Lining was definitely thicker and I had a nice big follicle close to 20mm so O should be happening within a few days. They are starting me on estrace for the next 15 days to help with my lining.

Any questions?: nope

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)? Haha does not going to church on Christmas (or any other holiday) any more count?

walkawaynee · December 2021

@fantasyflyte excited for you to start your treatment this cycle, I hope the insurance stuff works out!

@kiki047 oh gosh, I can't believe you are still wfaf, she is so sly. Glad you are taking control even if means more meds

@hanshotfirst77 I am with you, I don't really do the NYE thing.

@shortstack930 I hope it works out to get your meds while still in December for insurance! I am opposite on the lights, outside I always do, inside is hit or miss!

Diagnosis (if you've been): AMA, DOR, low morph, Hashimotos, endometrioma

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): I honestly have no clue what I am doing. WTO, technically I suppose?

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): pretty much in limbo. I have to decide if I want to prep for FET (assuming I have an embryo) or do another ER.

How are things going?: From my ER last weekend they got 4 eggs, 2 fertilized and 1 made it to 5 day blast. It was biopsied and frozen. Now just waiting on those results. We had decided to do another retrevial before transferring (assuming we have an embryo to transfer). This morning DH says out of the blue he thinks we should transfer if possible. So... I have to decide by tomorrow as I am supposed to start bcp for FET tomorrow if we are doing that. I am torn.

Any questions?: natm

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)? Honestly, I am pretty into all the holiday traditions mostly for fun, not seriousness. But, like Hans said I am not into NYE. I can't tell you the last time I stayed up until midnight that night.

optimistgardener · December 2021

@fantasyflyte I'm not sure how your PCOS diagnosis might effect the way Letrozole works for you, so ymmv on this, but I definitely feel like it sped my ovulation up by a day or two. fx it keeps you on this side of the new years line for insurance purposes!

@kiki047 oh man I am so. sorry. that AF is still holding out on you. I hope it arrives asap, and isn't too murder-scene-ish once it does arrive. BTW I really liked what you had to say about how you do holidays w/ yh.

@hanshotfirst77 congrats on your health goals! i i hope it feels good. I'm there with you on new years and possibly more extreme in that I actually aggressively dislike NY celebrations. I am a NY grinch. Just leave me alone to go to bed at 8pm. Something about the expectation of spontaneous communal optimism and unity makes me temporarily into a very anti-social animal.

@shortstack930 welcome back from your crazy work week (I guess the same also can be said for @hanshotfirst77!). sorry you're having to scramble to get your FET meds covered before the end of the year. Great news that CD1 arrived though and you're on your way to getting on the road again!

@gingermama29 congrats on the big follicle! hope it's the one. have they had you on estrace before for your lining or is this a new addition?

Diagnosis (if you've been): old

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): waiting for CD1 and then just... waiting

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): waiting for PGT-A results

How are things going?: meh. I haven't heard back about my embryo grading and at this point I guess I'll just mention it again when CD1 turns up and I have to call the clinic to let them know. I've been fairly successful about not letting myself be too crazy as I wait for results this time. In part it's because I'm fairly convinced this is not going to be my cycle. It's also helpful to have a lot of other stuff going on in my life right now to keep me preoccupied (hi there, end of term grading craziness).

Any questions?: nah

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)?

As a kid my parents put up a christmas tree for my sibling and me but it was always pretty apparent that it was only because we were there that they bothered. As an adult, I've basically fallen entirely off the holiday wagon (with the important exception of gingerbread cookies, see last week) and don't do gifts, tree, or cards except when around others who do. My family does usually take the opportunity to see one another, however, and this xmas I'll be heading up to see my mom and her partner. Hopefully we'll make some good food and just keep it low key.

Edit: extremely late sighting of an embarrassing grammar error. 😬

walkawaynee · December 2021

@optimistgardener I think we posted at the same time. It sucks that you haven't heard about the grading yet! I am with you in the "just waiting". And also cheers to being a NYE grinch and in bed at 8!

optimistgardener · December 2021

@walkawaynee oh boy i've been waiting to get your update from you! I'm glad you had one that made it! but that's quite a decision to have to make re: prepping for FET when you don't know your biopsy results. Not to be a downer on this but, considering how sure I was last time that I would get at least 1 good embryo out of my 4 blasts and none of them were, it's definitely a gamble. how much time are you expected to be on bcp for prior to ramping up other meds for FET?

walkawaynee · December 2021

I am hopeful that the one we have is good but I am also very aware of the probability which is why I had intended to do another retrevial.

I will only take bcp for 2 weeks and then the FET cycle would start. My clinic's transfer week is Jan 17-26. I will know my results before then but would be too late to get in their Feb retrevial cycle and will have to wait for March retrieval I wait on results.

Right now I am leaning towards going forward with the transfer only because it's unclear if my insurance will pay for another retrevial if I have a viable embryo and I don't know how long it will take them to confirm coverage (I have been trying to confirm this for weeks). I have trouble making decisions on a good day and trying to make this one based on a bunch of unknown variables is driving me batty.

hanshotfirst77 · December 2021

@shortstack930 big fat yes to no PIO over holidays. And I’m excited we may be on similar FET schedules.

@gingermama29 I’m glad to hear about your follie. Fx for your lining too!

@walkawaynee that’s a tough choice. I know my insurance insists on transferring all viable embryos before covering further retrievals.

@optimistgardener sometimes I feel like maybe it’s better not knowing about the grading cause it seems to be a crapshoot. I mean perfect gradings can fail and poor headings can be great. I’ve been agonizing over my poor embie yet my RE continues to insist that it really doesn’t matter and it has as good of a chance as my perfect one did. But I certainly understand the anxiety waiting to find out. I’m glad you have some stuff to distract while you wait though.

kiki047 · December 2021

@hanshotfirst77 congrats on almost reaching your goal weight! That's exciting. I hope your work craziness sorts itself out soon. Sounds like there's a few of us planning on doing FETs in January!
@shortstack930 echoing others in the cheers for no PIO over the holidays! Although confession, call me a masochist but I didn't actually hate PIO that much, we had a really good routine by the end.
@gingermama29 glad that 2nd round of letrozole sounds like it did the trick! FX for you!
@walkawaynee keeping everything crossed for you that you get a euploid embie from this round!! IVF math sucks, and it's so easy to get caught up in all the statistics. Here's hoping you get your results ASAP.
@optimistgardener oh I'm fully bracing myself for like a CSI-worth bloodbath when AF finally shows, but you never know, I suffer from thin lining anyway so maybe I'll have some underwhelming dribble instead. *shrug* As for your grading, I'm with hans on this too, my RE won't tell me the grading because he says it doesn't matter. All of mine are also Day 6 or 7 blasts, which concerns me, but again he's not concerned about that either. I don't have exact figures or success rates but he's confident that our chances are just as good with any euploid, and he said he has also seen very good success with the mosaics and all of the babies that have resulted from mosaic embryos from his clinic have been normal so far, which is consistent with the research.

ETA:

AFM, I've been feeling really off the last few days, like I have a pounding headache, and it's as if my heart is racing and I'm having a panic attack, but my HR and BP are normal and I've taken my Ativan a few times to calm my nerves and it hasn't really helped my symptoms which is how I know it's not actually my anxiety. I think it's the provera. I just took my last dose today so we'll see if it goes away because I don't like this feeling at all.

mvt2003 · December 2021

**lurking**

@optimistgardener as always @kiki047 has good info, anecdotally I can support it. I got 5 blasts from my ER in February '20, my clinic only gave me the grading once off-hand, and I can't remember the specifics, but I can tell you that:

My top graded embryo was my first CP, my second-best embryo was my second CP, and my third and fourth graded embryos are my daughters. I put in 2 embryos for my third transfer because mine were not genetically tested, and my clinic assumed my top graded embryos must have had genetic abnormalities. At the end of the day, embryo grading is just about how pretty they are, and do not mean much for viability. My 5th embryo is a day 6, and as @kiki047 has heard more than most people, I go back and forth wildly about whether or not to go back for it. (I had significant health issues after the twins' delivery, and I don't know if I can risk it again, and I am convinced that my lowest graded embryo would absolutely stick around).

tl;dr - embryo grading is mostly about if it's pretty or not once you get into the nitty gritty of "A" graded embryos vs "B" graded embryos. I got all wrapped up in my own head after losing our "best" embryo, but at the end of the day lower graded embryos have just as much of a chance. Knowing you'll have a euploid embryo transferred is half the battle IMO!

fantasyflyte · December 2021

@kiki047 thanks for the heads up on hot flashes, I'll have to keep an eye out for that. I'm glad you're doing better mentally and I hope the provera gets AF in soon so you can move on.

@hanshotfirst77 awesome job on the weight loss! Exciting that go time is almost here! Sorry about the work chaos though.

@shortstack930 glad AF showed up, and oof I feel you on the insurance thing. I hope you're able to get the meds before the end of the year.

@gingermama29 oooh, sounds like good progress, fingers crossed for you!

@walkawaynee fingers crossed you have a good embryo and I hope the insurance isn't a problem if you do decide to do another retrieval. Insurance sucks.

AFM: I talked to my nurse at the RE today about what to do for this cycle and we've decided that I'll still do letrozole this cycle and we'll decide on the IUI at CD10 monitoring. They'd have me come in for monitoring on CD10 since it's a medicated cycle anyway, and at that point we should have a good idea of whether or not it looks like I'll ovulate before the end of the year. If it looks like O will be Jan. 1 or later, we'll have to scrap the IUI until February because insurance is a pile of dog crap and of COURSE my husband's employer would switch carriers this year of all years. Also, of course my period is late the one cycle we didn't try, and the one cycle where earlier would really have been better. But at least we still have some kind of plan for this month even if the actual IUI part doesn't pan out.

optimistgardener · December 2021

Thanks so much for your input @mvt2003! Your experience is reassuring. I agree with you all that I'd lay my bets on a genetically normal but poorly graded embryo any day over a pretty but abnormal embryo. We'll just see how it all plays out, I guess.

And thanks, @kiki047. It's helpful to know that your normal embies were slow growers! I'm so sorry that you're feeling like crap. That sounds miserable. Being someone who has had some serious run-ins with panic attacks before, as I was reading your update i was like, uh-oh Kiki's having an anxiety attack, but it sounds like if the ativan doesn't help you're quite likely right that it's the provera.

(I've edited this thing about a dozen times now but once more: thanks also @hanshotfirst77! I read your post earlier today and appreciated your comment about the arbitrariness of grading. Basically I agree with all y'all and if I were advising anyone else I'd totally be saying the same. The issue here is mostly just that I don't trust myself to be able to produce normal embryos anymore, and the day 6 nature of my 2 from this cycle doesn't make me super optimistic. Which is part of why I feel iffy about learning the grading at all. But we'll just have to see!)

gingermama29 · December 2021

@walkawaynee hopefully insurance won’t be an issue if you decide to go forward with another retrieval.

@optimistgardener *TW* LC

another anecdote comes from my cousin who struggled with IF for years and is now an infertility therapist. She has the MTHFR gene and had to do IVF. Her embryos were very poorly graded but she only got a couple eggs from her retrieval (she ended up going into early menopause so another retrieval wasn’t an option). She said it’s very much a “beauty contest” when they’re doing the grading. Those embryos were transferred and are now 12 year old boys. So anecdotally, try not to stress too much about the grading.

Also, to answer your question, this is my first time taking estrace.

shortstack930 · December 2021

@gingermama29 glad you're getting close to O day and your lining is getting thicker!

@walkawaynee that's a tough decision. I hate how much insurance has to play into it.

@optimistgardener ugh I hate that you're still waiting for results!! I'm glad you're able to distract yourself although I'm sure all the grading isn't fun either.

@kiki047 yikes that sounds scary! Have you mentioned the side effects to your doctor?

@fantasyflyte glad you have a plan but it really sucks how much insurance has to figure in to everything, especially at the end of the year.

keikilove · December 2021

Hey, my dears, I have missed you all. Sorry to see we are all still here, but happy to “see your faces”.

@fantasyflyte Keeping things crossed for you that the Letrozole works its magic! The first medicated IUI is exciting. It feels
so good to be doing something. Re: the ovulation question: I’ve used Letrozole many times now and it doesn’t usually seem to mess with O at all. However, I just took it late this cycle (starting on CD 4 or 5? Instead of my usual CD2) and I just ovulated 5 days later than normal. Not sure what to blame it on. I guess you will only know once you try it. FX that you get to squeeze in the IUI before Jan.1.

@kiki047 Sorry to hear that you’re unhappily WFAF. I hope the Provera did the trick to kickstart things for you. Never-ending cycles are the most frustrating thing… // YH & you have the best alternative to presents on big occasions. ✈️ 🧳 🌎
@hanshotfirst77 Congratualtions on being so close to your goal weight! That’s impressive work as you prepare for FET. Sorry work was crazy, hoping things have been smoother for you this week.

@shortstack930 Yay for filling the meds before your deductible renews! That’s a win for sure. Every little bit helps during the holidays.

@gingermama29 Hooray for a nice big follicle! Glad to hear that the current protocol seems to be working for your body. How much estrogen will they have you on to thicken your lining?

@walkawaynee Congrats in the one blast! It’s exciting to at least get one, since that’s all it takes.🥚 Hopefully it’s perfectly healthy. Maybe talk to/remind YH about the need to have more embryos created in order to test and guarantee that you get more normals than you will need for the number of babies y’all are aiming for. Good luck with your decision!

@optimistgardener I’m sorry you’re not feeling good about the cycle as you wait for PGT-A results. Glad you’ve had things to keep you preoccupied. I hope you get a pleasant surprise after not dwelling on it.

keikilove · December 2021

Diagnosis (if you've been): RPL/RIF, Immune issues, blood-clotting issues, AMA

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): Heading into a FET now.

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): Took a new medicine in the hopes that it will increase the type of cells needed in the uterus to allow for healthy implantation.

How are things going?: Life has been h***, barely a second to breathe, thus my absence. Something had to give; I’m sorry that I wasn’t even able to lurk here or check in on any of you. It feels like I’ve missed a lot. I disappeared during the last TWW after IUI, in which I had the same problem as always: implantation cramping for 2 days, followed by fever and the end of cramps & negative tests. Felt pretty hopeless there for awhile.

Any questions?: Have others also taken a break? Maybe the holidays are just too busy or too triggering? I skimmed the last few pages & it looks like we have far fewer posts than usual.

GTKY: Tell us about a holiday tradition that you break (can be, but doesn't need to be, Christmas-related)? We are all about the holidays in my family & extended family. We don’t skip any of our traditions, which include a Christmas Eve party and caroling around the neighborhood. I skipped NYE once (thanks to a drunken brunch earlier in the day😆) and it felt like the weirdest thing ever to go to sleep before midnight.

optimistgardener · December 2021

@keikilove i have everything crossed that your new medicine does the trick with implantation. you're right that things around here have been quieter than usual. Some grads left which made things quieter but yeah, maybe also the holidays. so good to "see" you again around here!

optimistgardener · December 2021

heeee-yyyyy. so i got some news back from my biopsies and it turns out that one of my embryos is a low-level mosaic (the other is complexly abnormal). I am... not unhappy about this result. I'm going to make an appointment with cooper genomics to ask what they think about this embryo but the clinic is willing to transfer it based on their protocols. the nurse is making a calendar right now but conceivably i could do an early Feb transfer.

acleverusername · December 2021

@keikilove

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/2x/eiy7wkqhzr8o.gif

Good luck with the new medication! I'm so so so hoping it'll do the trick. Like with every cell of my body.

@optimistgardener

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/1f/haz3h8gblpgw.gif

Wowee. I am SO excited for you! And also holy that was a QUICK turnaround compared to last time. Keep us posted on what's next.

(Pardon lack of acknowledgment of everyone else; I've been drinking from the firehose that is being a new manager, and trying to end the year on a high note, so haven't had a chance to reply or post my update. But I'm here, lurking, and rooting for you all!!!!)

optimistgardener · December 2021

@acleverusername don't you know it! i was like... why is the clinic calling me already. it didn't even occur to me that it was my PGT-A results.

optimistgardener · December 2021

back again. ok, uh. paging @acleverusername and anyone else with opinions about appropriate supplements to prepare for a FET. I'm gonna hop back on my baby aspirin, and of course sticking with the PNVs and CoQ10 because why not. But what else should I be taking/not taking? I'm all ears. I'm thinking I should come off the DHEA. What about melatonin? Do people take Vit E and the baby aspirin together?

Also just looked up info on the Cooper site and (of course still waiting for an actual consultation with them but) they have on their site a list for how they prioritize mosaic embryos for transfer. Chromosome 3 deletions (which is what mine is) are at the top of the list for priority.

hanshotfirst77 · December 2021

@keikilove Hi friend! Everything crossed for you this does the trick!

@optimistgardener that was a really quick turnaround that’s awesome. An early Feb transfer will be here before you know it.

gingermama29 · December 2021

@keikilove I’m taking 2mg twice a day. Sending you all the good vibes and crossing everything for a successful FET. Hugs friend.

@optimistgardener oh yay! FX for a Feb transfer!!

AFM, I had a blazing positive OPK this morning so looks like all the meds worked!

optimistgardener · December 2021

@hanshotfirst77 yeah I am pleased with the turnaround this time, especially considering i waited more than 3 weeks for the results from my last batch to arrive. I fell deep into research lit last night and this morning on transferring mosaics and the data is fairly consistent that biochemical pregnancy and live birth rates are lower than euploid but still, in my opinion, worth trying, with live birth rates for low-level mosaics hovering somewhere in the 40-45% range, and reassuring data re: healthy/apparently normal babies resulting from mosaic transfers to date. In any case my schedule does not allow me to do another retrieval round for a few months. A FET is comparatively easier to squeeze into my ridiculous calendar. And since all I want is 1, I may as well flip that coin since it's in my hand.

hanshotfirst77 · December 2021

@optimistgardener yes I agree that is definitely worth a try and since you won’t be able to do an ER in this time anyways no reason not to give this a shot. I don’t know much about mosaics but I have heard the same that they can certainly result in healthy babies. So fx this is the one!

optimistgardener · December 2021

oops! i think we posted at once @gingermama29. congrats on that OPK! full steam ahead!

bumblebee0210 · December 2021

** lurking **

@optimistgardener. That's great news on the mosaic! The more I read the more I would be confident transferring a mosaic embryo. Obviously success rates are not as high, but my understanding is that most of the failure happens at the point of implantation, which sucks but is way better than miscarriage. And of course you should talk to the Cooper people but I think deletions in particular have more of this "all or nothing" quality. A 40-45% chance of live birth is great! That's way better than, for instance, having sex. I say go for it. For FET supplements-- YMMV, but for me it was just a baby aspirin, PNVs, and prescribed meds. I dropped everything else.

optimistgardener · December 2021

thank you @bumblebee0210! i really appreciate your thoughts on this esp. as a fellow reader of data.

bumblebee0210 · December 2021

** lurking** **pg mentioned in spoiler**

I actually was talking about this to my doctor today about whether to get further screening now hat I am pregnant with a genetically normal embryo (I am getting NIPT, not getting amnio). She basically said that they are very rarely wrong about euploids, and the errors almost all go the other way-- she said something like "yeah they kind of overcall them" meaning, they lean toward calling things abnormal that may be fine. She said she would suggest an amnio if I were transferring a mosaic (which makes sense), but in a way that made it seem like they are super fine with transferring mosaics also. It makes sense, given that 5 years ago that low-level mosaic would have just come back normal.

kiki047 · December 2021

@keikilove sending hugs. When you said you were heading into a FET now, did you literally mean that day? In which case, I hope everything went smoothly and the new med does what it's supposed to.

I love that you have some really special holiday traditions with your family, and I hope that's everything you need to fill your cup over the holidays (with love and warmth, instead of alcohol of course lol).
@optimistgardener I'm so happy to hear that you're leaning towards transferring your mosaic! I'm agreement with what you and the others have said about mosaics, and that's consistent with everything I've read about them too. When my 2nd retrieval only yielded 3 aneuploid and a low level mosaic I also went down the rabbit hole of what that meant, and what I know now is much more reassuring than what I felt at the time. I know clever posted a link to the Meaghan Doyle IG page but I'll leave it here again. Nurture.hf is another favourite account of mine. I know they're not exactly scientific journals but Meaghan is a Geneticist for one of Canada's top clinics, and Christiana is an IVF Lab Director.
@gingermama29 yay, that's great news! FX for you!

keikilove · December 2021

@optimistgardener That’s great news about the mosaic! I’m so happy for you! How perfect that your little embaby is exactly the type of mosaic that they prioritize for transfer. I hope that gives you a real sense of relief, and belief that things could finally go your way in February.💗 As far as supplements, I just researched the heck out of this before my transfer. You are right to continue your Co-Q10, as it’s proven to lower miscarriage rates and prevent APS, etc. With DHEA, you may want to get your DHEA, DHEA-S, and testosterone tested before stopping. My RI’s office has me stay on DHEA until transfer takes place. (I just got mine tested a week before transfer—I wasn’t supplementing—and my levels were almost non-existent, like a level of 3. If I take one 25mg pill then my levels go up to a very normal 200 or so. You may want to check yours periodically before FET to see if your body is producing naturally or if you need to keep supplementing.) Just to add to the decision-making, my naturopath believes it’s best to stay on a low dose of DHEA throughout pregnancy. I’m leaning her way since I can see that I’m not functioning well without a bit of supplementation. My adrenals are shot from all the stress (and probably from the thyroid meds) so I mlsuspect that’s why I’m not producing it on my own and may need to stay in a small amount of supplementation. Ok, on to melatonin: this is a very good one to stay on for the early part of transfer and pregnancy. It helps with implantation. However, the jury is out on safety for a fetus: the recommendation appears to be to stay on it for no longer than 4-9 weeks total, no matter when you start it. And finally, yes to the Vitamin E and baby aspirin combo. Vit E is one of the few that is recommended to continue in It Starts With The Egg, and almost every RE out there will tell you that baby aspirin helps with blood flow and implantation. You can continue both of these for the entire pregnancy—unless your blood gets too thin. You can check this with an aPTT blood test. Hope this helps a little!

@gingermama29 Yippee for clear ovulation! Your E2 supplementation sounds like a very normal and logical amount. I really hope it does the trick for you! And sending hugs right back at you 🤗 When I stop and think about how long some of us have been posting in this thread, I sometimes can’t believe how long we’ve been at this. Hopefully both of our times are coming soon. ✌🏼

@hanshotfirst77 Hey friend! 👋 Thanks for the warm welcome back! And for the good wishes 💕

@acleverusername Hiiii! I definitely noticed your name missing from lots of the pages I skimmed and figured you must be super busy. Hope that the managerial life is enjoyable and not *too* overwhelming. Love your gifs, by the way. They made me think of this: 😄

@kiki047 Thank you, sweetie.🥰 Yes, I was literally on the way to my clinic yesterday for the FET. Traveling alone seems to be where I find my only moments of free time lately. Did an infusion today, about to fly home in a couple hours. Ready to be on the holiday break and relax! When is everyone else on winter break?

shortstack930 · December 2021

@keikilove good luck with the FET!!! Hoping so hard this works.

@optimistgardener I’m so excited that you may transfer the mosaic!!! I think any extra info you can get about it can only help.

All this talk about supplements made me realize that I never went back on baby aspirin! I took it when we did IVF back in 2018 but never thought to restart it this time 😳

optimistgardener · December 2021

thank you @kiki047 i had a look around both sites you linked. great resources! the Meaghan Doyle site offers stats on various types of mosaic embryos and their implantation rates. these are pretty much the kinds of stats i've been seeing in the different studies i've looked at (40-45% for low-level 1-chromosome mosaics vs. an ongoing pregnancy rate of 52% for euploids). And thank you @keikilove for your super helpful outline of supplement recommendations!

more mosaic nerd talk in spoiler (summarizing a cool new study for those w/ mosaic embryos on ice @bumblebee0210 @kiki047 @acleverusername ):

there's also a brand new (pre-peer review, so proceed with caution) study out that's also seemingly making big waves right now because it is showing pretty surprising results, namely that low-level mosaic and euploid embryos have essentially the same success rates. basically, the study design attempts to remove other biases that might shift the stats on mosaic transfers by blinding clinics and patients as to whether embryos are euploid or mosaic. the study's authors argue that other euploid vs. mosaic stats tend to be biased because they rely on #s drawn from women who have already experienced failed transfer of euploid embryos before turning to mosaics for transfer (based on standard clinic practice to use the "good" embryos first). according to the authors, this shifts stats on mosaics because many of these women are more likely to experience early pregnancy failure for other, non-embryo-related reasons.
the mosaics allowed in the study are all <50% mosaic, the usual cut-off in measure for a "low-level" vs "high-level" mosaic embryo. Anything <50% is labelled as "euploid" and transferred, and then later in the pregnancy unblinded as euploid (<20%), low (20-30%), and low-mid mosaic (30-50%). they did 847 single-embryo transfers (fairly big study), showing live birth rates for each group as 43.4, 42.9, and 42% (no significant difference). There were also no diffs in terms of miscarriage rates, and only one birth defect was seen (the baby, born from a low-mid graded mosaic embryo, had a syndrome that was seemingly unrelated to the chromosomal issues the embryo had displayed so unclear if it was related to the mosaicism).
Note the study's LBR for true euploid transfers @ 43.4% is significantly lower than a lot of other studies show (usually above 50%).

acleverusername · December 2021

@keikilove I think I'd been doing regular updates up until that week, but probably missed 1 or 2. But I've definitely been less wordy lately, because of aforementioned managerial duties.

Speaking of other research making rounds this morning: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/health/ivf-tests-fertility-ingenomix.html?auth=login-facebook&referringSource=articleShare

Thoughts? I read through it, and I'm definitely in the group of ppl that will "try every test under the moon" just for the added peace of mind. I think it might be a disease.

acleverusername · December 2021

GUYS, MH's biopsy came back yesterday and IT'S BENIGN! @anniemarie887, same deal for him though.... yearly u/s to monitor.

optimistgardener · December 2021

@acleverusername YAYYYY!!!

fantasyflyte · December 2021

@acleverusername yay, I'm so glad! You guys must be so relieved.

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