IF Testing & Treatment w/o 6.21

keikilove · June 2021

@optimistgardener Ugh, I’m sorry you’re feeling this much anxiety about it all! This probably doesn’t help, but anxiety seems to be par for the course. You can definitely share these feelings here or the mental health thread—either one is appropriate. I’m sending you hugs and positive energy right now.

I think that if taking the nuvaring out a day later is going to give you more peace of mind, then that’s what you should do. You can always go in a day earlier to get your next U/S too. Anytime between cycle days 2-4 is normal timing.

And YES, you should go for a walk! Walks out in nature help everything.😉💗

keikilove · June 2021

@optimistgardener I don’t know if you’re into /open to this type of thing, but someone shared their calming IVF/fertility meditations playlist link. Listening to this might help quell some of your anxiety.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2XY9h3Foxs9q1eaENMUy7h?TappID=46906&OS=

optimistgardener · June 2021

@keikilove thank you so much. it's really helpful just to have someone acknowledge how I'm feeling. I think the calendar/timing aspect of it is especially stressful for me, in combination with my desire to Control all the Things, and the likelihood that I won't be able to do any more cycles once the term starts in September. I'm kinda not great with meditative stuff but I'll give the playlist a try! Thanks for sending it.

inthewoods23 · June 2021

@optimistgardener sending lots of hugs

we're here for you!

bows22 · June 2021

@optimistgardener ditto to everything @keikilove said❤️

Also, even if you agree with the comment about your anxiety, if it bothers you that they put that in there, that’s totally valid. True or not, I find it slightly inappropriate unless that person is a mental health professional. It sounds like you are okay with so I’m not trying to convince you to be upset about it if you aren’t, but if part of you was like wtf when you saw that, I’m on your side! haha. Rooting so hard for you and glad things are happening soon!

acleverusername · June 2021

Okay, back for tags after feeling like a$$ all week due to the new diet. I though I was doing fine, but the exhaustion/headache from coffee and sugar withdrawals are real. I even took the afternoon off today. Writing a novel so grab a comfy seat ya'll... I’m gonna start in reverse order:

@optimistgardener Yay for such a positive mid-cycle u/s! I hope you will see even MORE follicles at your baseline. Don't forget to HAVE ONLY POSITIVE /PRAGMATIC EXPECTATIONS. this is probably not reassuring but I want you to have all the info: a girl in my fertility therapy group is in a similar spot as you, and she had the same question for her doctor. C&P verbatim: “I spoke with Dr. X about the prolonged birth control and apparently he wouldn't prescribe this long of a period for someone with more follicles, but since I have less follicles it does the opposite of suppressing my ovaries.” Also, ditto to what @keikilove said: ABSOLUTELY do what feels right to you. Listen, it was a really hard decision to cancel my cycle but I went with my gut. Literally no one else thought that was an option and encouraged me to just lean into the 5 or 6 eggs I was looking at getting. But my gut was telling me "no" and I know that if I hadn't listened to it, I'd have regretted it later.

@Avrilmai Hi, nice to meet you! Enjoy YH's grandfather's 90th birthday. What a great life milestone! And it's so nice that you're able to celebrate it now that the worst of Covid is finally behind us. Regarding my med dosages, this is my fourth clinic/RE and I have a deep mistrust given really poor experiences with first 2 clinics. I'm also REALLY well researched. My issue with the current clinic is they use the same dosages for everyone... I had a friend who is 40 and with DOR and she was prescribed the same protocol. So the distrust comes from that.

@inthewoods23 LOL @ your plans that reference previous plans. Very complex... just what I would expect of an engineer. Looking forward to having you back in the mix. What @keikilove said about getting the vaccine is super interesting. I would further say that GF/DF diet is impacting your immune system too, so perhaps it + your Covid shot is the magic you need to get that 🌈As for MH's Ashwaganda dosage, I had him take this one (dosage on the label). I've since stopped giving it to him (bless his soul, he'll take whatever vitamins I put into his pillbox) as I think I overdid it on the supplements. Not scientific, but there was a marked decrease in sperm quality between our IUI in early December and our IUI in early Feb, and Ashwaghanda is one of the things that changed (but we also started eating like crap and drinking way more than we'd been). Then again, his SA in May, 1.5 months after stopping Ashwaghanda, was better than the Feb one.

@keikilove First of all, remember to honor your body throughout the process. If, even though you're feeling like crap, there's an option to sit on the couch versus taking a walk, and you think that sitting on the couch is gonna make you feel worse, then definitely go for a walk. I learned that technique – called Opposite Action – with the first therapist I saw last fall. I hope that helps. Also, WOW... 4 fertilized Day 3 embies, that's just supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!!! I'm excited to hear what happens to the Day 5 one tomorrow. Will anxiously await your answer. Thanks for sharing the infor with @kiki047 re: expired meds. I actually have a couple of Gonal-F pens that are expired as of March/April of this year and I would hate to trash them. I think I'll use them! Not sure if you've seen this in your forums, but I've seen advice that maybe using the expired meds towards the end of a stim cycle, might lessen the impact if they are in fact ineffective. Heads up to @kiki047 on that. Finally... wow @ your A-Z list... or A-GG rather. You are a WARRIOR! I so so so hope that you will have success at the end of all your efforts. Oh ... and NO, I must have missed your post about HGH discount code. Please post details. I tried signing up for their OmniSource program, but apparently not eligible if HGH is being used for fertility. So if you know of a different way, please share! (I wouldn't mind recouping $1100).

@kiwi2628 the newcomers group in your town sounds awesome! I also love that you describe it similar to Stars Hollow. Makes me want to live there! I'm curious to hear about your IVF cycle that was such a colossal failure (that you didn't grow enough follicles to make it worth a retrieval). That's kind of what happened to me... I have an AMH >2, and an AFC that's persistently anywhere from 10-16. Yet, only 5 follicles responded to stims. What was your initial protocol and how did your doctor modify it? Re: the med dosage of 300/300 (Gonal-f/Menopur), I know people who've had that protocol prescribed, so it's definitely done.

@daisy0322 that's so awesome about YH being the Hero of the Game! What an honor. Also, lol about all the top secrecy around his job. It's so nice that you let him do whatever he does for work, without feeling like you need to know. I'm too nosy for that. Also ditto what @kiki047 said about Space Force... I can't take it seriously having seen the Netflix show.

@mokay19 it's so awesome (not really, but hopefully you know what I mean) that you found a hysterscopy buddy in @bows22. I hope the surgery goes well for you both! It's so weird that your body is hormonally re

@kiki047 arnica cream is great! I recently started using it because I bruise easily (and currently nursing a bruise the size of half of my calf -- an injury from the dog park) and it's working like a charm. I hope it works for you. RE: Dosages, yes TEW okayed it, but in my phone consult with her – before I cancelled and had the convo with my doctor – she expressed that she would have me do 300/300 or 450/150 to start. And she isn't the first one to mention that. When I consulted with the AZ doc, he said that he's have me start with the highest dose because "I'm presenting like someone with DOR". She did "approve" what my RE recommended but I can't help but feel that it's because she doesn't want to contradict my doctor too much (she knows him personally; I imagine there's a fine line to unofficially consult a patient of a colleague you respect.) Thank you for being excited for me with travel ban now gone (for vaccinated Canadians).

@bumblebee0210 so excited that you're starting that EPP protocol finally! I really have high hopes for you on it. It worked so great for my friend. Many fingers crossed. Throw in the toes in there too. And LOL re: "clean data".. I mean... that's obviously one of the reasons I'm hesitating. 🤣

@Avrilmai @inthewoods23 thanks to you both for "talking me off the ledge" haha. I did, after all, ask for it. I expressed above (in reply to @kiwi2628) why I'm still a bit hesitant to go with the dosages that my new RE prescribed me. At the end of the day, he doesn't know how my body has reacted in each of the medicated cycles I've done to date. So when I tell him that I'm sensitive to some meds, he's like "that's impossible... evidence suggests that... blah blah blah." I knew there was a risk with this clinic because it has reputation of being overly evidence-based (i.e. they are not experimental at all) hence my desire to go rogue. I still have 4-5 weeks to think about it, but for now I'm leaning NOT going rogue.

optimistgardener · June 2021

@acleverusername lady that is like a whole shelf of novelettes you've just written us. thanks for the long read! I love it.

I'll reply more later but just wanted to send a little appreciative note first.

inthewoods23 · June 2021

@acleverusername I mean, that's essentially what the plans were haha. Basically previous plans + something extra. You forgot to link to the ashwagandha. DH's digestive system has been giving him issues since he started it but I did read too high of a dose can lead to more side effects. I'm hoping I can convince him to take half a dose but we'll see. Might have to return the 1 unopened bottle 😑 get at least that money back

daisy0322 · June 2021

@acleverusername haha yes i do tease him about it 😂 I dont even know where the other building he works is though so a lot of times I’ll joke with him that he doesn’t actually do anything. But tbh work conversations have always been super boring to me even when I worked I rarely ever talked about work or even mentioned my job even to my husband lol I’m so sorry your not feeling well, I hope you can enjoy some of the weekend 💕

optimistgardener · June 2021

@acleverusername super interesting what the woman in your fertility therapy group had to say about use of birth control with DOR. I really wish I were able to find more info! I wonder what that statement is based on. It is bizarre to me how little information in this world is verifiable/studied with peer-reviewed results, etc., and how much of it is based on the observations of individual REs (and of course crowdsourced information on online forums where women offer their experiences with different treatments). I have been hunting through the journal articles looking for any studies on how birth control affects AFC, or (better) the effects of birth control on older vs younger women (I was looking for these studies before you sent your message, btw). And of course I can find nothing. There are plenty of articles describing studies that demonstrate efficacy of this or that hormonal bc method, although they sometimes incidentally discuss AFC or follicle size, the main thing the articles are focused on is "did anyone in the study ovulate" (no), not "did some women's ovaries respond differently than others." There are also plenty of studies showing results of IVF cycles with and without BCP downregulation. Ah, well. I do think my plan will be to carry on with the ring for one day longer than recommended. that way, assuming I bleed on schedule after removal (i typically do with these sorts of things), i'll be at CD2 on baseline, and hopefully slightly less risk of a runaway. Fingers crossed!

acleverusername · June 2021

@inthewoods23 dang! I knew I missed something: https://www.costco.com/youtheory-ashwagandha-1%2c000-mg.%2c-150-capsules.product.100494260.html

@optimistgardener lol “novelette”… it did take me over an hour to craft. I was committed! I’m excited for your treatment start!!! Crossing everything. If I come across any studies/more into in my other forums and groups, I’ll send along.

@daisy0322 thanks! I hope you have fun st the game and don’t get too drunk from all the free beer from the fans! Lol.

inthewoods23 · June 2021

@acleverusername holy cow 1000mg?? DH's daily serving of what I bought is 300mg. I believe most articles I read said between 125-500mg was best so I'm hoping he can tolerate at least 150mg so it's not totally money wasted and can provide some benefit.

optimistgardener · June 2021

also thanks @bows22 and @inthewoods23 for your ❤️. it was really helpful yesterday. @bows22 you're totally right about it being semi-weird that the clinic labelled me as having anxiety w/out anyone there being experts in psychiatry. I am letting it slide because, i mean, i am anxious, and also because i happen to like that doctor. but when i read it, part of me wanted to put up my dukes and be like, "you think i have anxiety? well yes, I do. and i have Good Reasons For It!!" There is something about being medically labelled that makes it feel like it's not somehow justified, like i'm being hysterical for no reason. It makes me think of all those women in the 50s and 60s who got diagnosed with "nervous disorders" and were prescribed tranquilizers. heck yeah they were struggling, and for good reasons, too. anyhow, any one of us here has every right to be every kind of stressed.

keikilove · June 2021

@inthewoods23 Thanks! Yes, if I get any quality Day5s then they would likely be transferred first. So far I’ve only gotten the two Day5s in a different round that they tried to grow to Day6 and then they arrested. This cycle’s attempted Day5 also arrested, but I’m not sure when it happened. Will ask my Dr when I see her this week.

@bumblebee0210 Thanks for your excitement!😁 Yes, my protocol was quite different this time: I told my current RE how well I responded to just Letrozole in my recent IUI cycles with my local RE. I told her that even when we added Follistim I would get just one more follicle than when using Letrozole alone. So my current RE used this info for this cycle’s protocol and prescribed way less meds. So far I’m getting slightly better results. Protocol in spoiler:

The first time I did DuoStim with her I did Letrozole 2.5 mg, waited 5 days to start two vials of Pergoveris per day (I think that was 300 FSH and 150 LH total), plus an additional 75 (I think that was the dose?) of Follistim a few days later. I got 4 mature eggs the first retrieval and 5 mature eggs the second retrieval. This time I only did 5 days of Letrozole 5mg dose, starting stims on the 3rd day. I’m using just 1 vial of Pergoveris per day this time. For this first retrieval cycle I got 6 mature eggs. I’m not sure but it seems like this DuoStim could be categorized as mini-IVF with the low doses I’m on. I will know at the start of next week whether we add more of anything.

@acleverusername Girl, you win an award this week for written responses😄 It’s no wonder it took you an hour! (As I tagged you possibly too many times😬 earlier this week I was definitely thinking, ‘Oh man, Clever’s been quiet this week. She’s gonna have so many things to read/reply to once she has some free time!’) // Thanks for the input about honoring my body. That’s exactly what I did last night: after a long stressful workday the couch was hypnotically calling my name. Instead I had MH drag the elliptical to the livingroom so I could do a light workout while watching YouTube videos all about how to move to Italy😄 Taking care of the body and the imagination! // Yeah, about the Day 5 hopeful embryo:I posted a response above to ITW23. Unfortunately it didn’t survive. I’m going g to post another response a bit later with the HGH info & will PM you some more info about the meds.

keikilove · June 2021

@acleverusername and anyone else who is AMA/ has symptoms like DOR and wants to improve egg quality, here is how to get Omnitrope (HGH) for free:

Go to the discount website here https://qv.trialcard.com/omnitrope
and complete their coupon intake form.

1) Select “Insurance doesn’t cover this medicine”.

2) Select the “vial or syringe” option, not the pen option.

3) Select “Yes” to being prescribed it for a labeled indication
4) Select your indication. Any of the options should get you approved. Do NOT select “Not listed”. (Adult Human Growth Deficiency or Turner Syndrome is very likely to qualify you).

That’s it. Simple. Next, Omnitrope will immediately email you a coupon card that is good for 1 year and covers up to $5,000 in meds. You can use this coupon card to refill a prescription for free every 21 days. You just have your local doctor send the prescription to a participating pharmacy (even if your doctor has prescribed it for fertility and not another symptom). Then call the participating pharmacy to have them fill it; they will ask you for the coupon code & keep it on file for you so that you don’t have to give them the number again. Integrity Pharmacy in AZ participates and will ship you the meds and required syringes/alcohol pads for free. I’ve heard that Freedom Pharmacy also participates, not too sure who else.

kiwi2628 · June 2021

@acleverusername so my first IVF cycle started with 10 days (I think) of estrogen priming and then I jumped into stims. 300 Gonal-F and 75 menopur (I think, IIRC). My AFC was 12.I never had large AFCs like some people have like 15-20 and I was always more like 8-12. After doing like 3 days of stims we did and u/s and there were a number of small follicles and like 2-3 larger ones at like 10-12 mm. They upped my menopur to 100. 2 more days of stims and I had like 2-3 follicles at like 14 mm. They added ganirelix. My RE showed me some research that made him not want to do more than 300 of Gonal because over 300 doesn't always increase eggs but can simply increase risk to egg quality, so we didn't increase the gonal. and 2 more days of stims and I had a follicle at like 17, and like 2 at 16 and there was one more they *think* hiding right next to one so it was harder to see or it might have been a weird bubble from another, but basically I only had 3-4 follicles. I was DEVASTATED. So we cancelled the ER, we did TI that cycle and the next cycle he gave me the option of the same protocol as before (maybe the poor response was a fluke) vs trying another protocol that often works with poor responders. So I opted to try that one- it was the microdose flare protocol. No estrogen priming but BC prior to starting for 2 weeks. So we did that and I got 10 eggs, 8 mature, 8 fertilized and on day 5 one was frozen and was put in me, and on day 6 three more were frozen. All my frozen ones were tested too so from my 8 got I got 4 PGS normal embryos and one non-PGS tested embryo that became my son so obvious a normal embryo. A world of difference.

acleverusername · June 2021

@keikilove Thanks! That's the one I registered for and it gives savings of like $417 a month (adult HGH deficiency is the cause I've selected.) Next I'll try getting my pharmacy to honor. Apparently it's supposed to be retroactive to 120 days.

@kiwi2628 Thanks for sharing your story! I can relate for sure (even though I was looking at maybe collecting 5 eggs this cycle; it wasn't worth it to me to spend my insurance credits on so few eggs). If this next go doesn't work out as planned (doing 300 Gonal + 150 Menopur + mid-luteal start), I'll check with my doctor re: micro flare lupron cycle.

@inthewoods23 I'll be totally honest: when it comes to Ashwaghanda, I did very little research (as opposed to everything else I do). Now that I'm thinking about it, it was on special at Costco which is why I bought it, and then I looked to "apply" it to our cases. I first thought I could take it for stress, but then found out it can exacerbate thyroid issues. So - so as not to waste a bottle that I opened - I just had MH take it. LOL. (Poor guy just takes whatever I put in him pillbox. A blessing and a curse.)

@optimistgardener checking in... how are you doing over there?

optimistgardener · June 2021

hey @acleverusername. my god it is hot where i live right now. today and tomorrow it is supposed to hit 112, and then through the rest of the week hang out around 100 every day. So, I know you're asking me how i'm doing with my waiting-for-my-baseline anxiety, but that's been somewhat overtaken by just lying around trying not to get heatstroke stuff. but yeah, i'm still sort of vacillating between being excited for the start of things and full of distress because i convince myself that it will have to be cancelled... it is possible that i am transferring some of my larger-scale anxiety about the outcome of the cycle onto the yes/no of the baseline results. i think the thing that really gets at me is that unfortunately there is a lot resting on this cycle. i know that my chances of actually getting a viable embryo out of this cycle aren't great to start with, but compounding that is the knowledge that i can't easily schedule another retrieval cycle in the foreseeable if this one doesn't work. my clinic, it seems, only does ivf cycles every other month, so i am not sure if i'd be able to squeeze in another cycle in september. possibly i could do one over winter break, but things would have to work out really really well, calendar- and cycle-wise. [This is the definite down-side to landing my dream job teaching at the local uni... Suddenly I can't just up and drive to my clinic at need, any day of the week.]

acleverusername · June 2021

@optimistgardener that’s a lot to think about when you’re trying not to die of heat. Hang in there!

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