IF Testing & Treatment w/o 6.21

keikilove · June 2021

This is a place for those of us who have already started TTC, but have started infertility testing and/or treatments. You can express your thoughts, feelings, and frustrations on infertility. TTC can be a long journey naturally, then add in the difficulties associated with infertility, and it becomes a whole new ball game. The road to infertility can be lonely, frustrating, and complicated, so let's make this a place where we can vent, ask questions, and support one another. Feel free to resurrect this thread at any point in the week if you have something to say. Treat this as an ongoing conversation.

Diagnosis (if you've been):

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):

How are things going?:

Any questions?:

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week?

kiki047 · June 2021

I hope this doesn't come off as snarky because it's not intended to be at all but curious where everyone feels like they fall re: Plan A, B, C, D... etc? I think I'm somewhere around J or K if I count every scenario where I envisioned a certain outcome, only to not have it happen and be forced to pivot (with regards to TTC).

Diagnosis (if you've been): PCOS, RPL/RIF, mild MFI

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): I think TWW, doing a poor job at tracking anything but CD28 should mean I'm in the latter half of my cycle

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): Limbo

Image: https://media.giphy.com/media/sEoKt9rvmjnaimi3Sa/giphy.gif

How are things going?: Ehhh. Yesterday was Father's Day, maybe the first one in 3 years we haven't cried through it so I suppose that's a win. I booked a session with my therapist but her next opening isn't until July 13th so still over 3 weeks away.
I've mentally convinced myself that I'd like to spend my 2 months in limbo trying letrozole again, so waiting to see if my RE will give me his blessings to do so. As much as we didn't have any success on it any of our 8 previous cycles, I felt fine on it and maybe it'll give us just the tiniest boost of a chance over natural cycles. Or maybe I'm just desperate and grasping at straws here.

Any questions?: This isn't IF related but has anyone ever had their arm go numb or tingly from a nurse/phlebotomist inserting the needle wrong? Dr Google led me down a dark path of medical malpractice stories lol, but part of my horror story from that awful experience having blood drawn last week is the lady not being able to find a vein, and when she was quite literally digging around I felt a horrible electric shock feeling then radiating pain down my arm. I yelled at her to stop and said it felt like she hit a nerve, and she scoffed at me and said "there are no nerves in that area" and proceeded to go to try again. I said no, please try the other arm and she put up a big fight saying that was my "best" vein. She still couldn't find a vein in the other arm so I had her get someone else to do it, and he was able to get it on the first try. But my arm still feels awful, if not worse.

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week? I was able to book my 2nd vaxx appt so I go next Tuesday. I had all my feels yesterday when I got to see my brother for the first time since November, and hugged him for the first time since September. God that felt good.

kiwi2628 · June 2021

Diagnosis (if you've been): unexplained IF

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): WFAF!!!!

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):
Nada. FET is next cycle though!

How are things going?: good! I’m getting super excited for the next 13 days to fly by

Any questions?:

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week? A party this Saturday with the newcomers group in town

acleverusername · June 2021

@kiki047 Oooph, good question re: where A-Z we are... probably around F or G? Not sure how to establish it though.
A) Trying naturally and not tracking;

Trying naturally and tracking;
C) Trying naturally and getting some "aids" in the form of seeds, teas, etc.;
D) Medicated cycles;
E) Medicated cycles + IUI;
F) Super-ovulation + double IUI;
G) IVF round 1...

I'm sorry that I don't have advice for you re: shitty phlebotomist. Sounds like a terrible experience though! Are you thinking she might have done some permanent damage? I'm so happy to hear you got to see your brother. I can feel your joy through your message. Hopefully things continue to improve. Btw, loving the gif.

@kiwi2628 I can't believe only 13 days left! Are you doing a natural FET cycle, a modified natural FET cycle, or a medicated FET cycle?

Diagnosis (if you've been): Hashimoto's, sperm-driven fertilization issue due to suspected genetic issue, AMA, high FSH

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): TWW (well, technically today is O day)

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): Well, since we aborted our IVF cycle, we've elected to convert it to a "medicated" superovulation cycle. I took the trigger shot on Saturday, so H and I have to DTD tonight. Even though the nurse told me no sex for the next two weeks, I'm not too worried about having sextuplets given that willingly doing a superovulation + double IUI where I grew 4 follicles did nothing for us. Alas, doesn't hurt to try. (Not that there's a chance of sextuplets since I only had 3 mature follicles at trigger).

How are things going?: Meh, I'm still tired AF from all the hormones I pumped myself with last week. I'm looking forward to feeling human again. I hope that happens soon.

Any questions?: Not really a question, but I'm kind of really temped to go off-script next IVF cycle and take a higher dose of meds than my doctor wants (300IU of Menopur in addition to 300IU of Gonal-F; doctor wants me to only take 150IU of Menopur). I've got some extra Menopur donated by friends. But I've got 6 weeks to mull this idea over. Please talk me out of it.

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week? Taking liberties here too...today it was announced that all vaccinated Canadian citizens can travel home without quarantine and mandatory hotel stay requirement as of July 5. So I'm praying that my IVF cycle timing works out, and I can go to Newfoundland for my college bestie's wedding in mid-August. Woot!

keikilove · June 2021

@kiki047 It’s so good to hear that you got to spend time with your brother! I’m sure that was most welcome after the way life has been treating you lately.💗I’m sorry to hear about the crappy phlebotomist, and also sorry that I don’t have any insight for you. It does sound like she struck a nerve, despite her telling you that there are none in that area. And re: your question about which step I’m on…I haven’t thought about it that way, but I do know that there are only a couple possible tricks left to try before I can say I’ve tried everything. So maybe that puts me at X? Idk, maybe I’ll do a list like Clever down below…

@kiwi2628 Woohoo, this is exciting! You’re so close! Your weekend plans sound fun. Out of curiosity, what is the newcomers group?

@acleverusername Heck yeah, make the most of this super-ovulation cycle! As far as overmedicating yourself, I don’t have any advice but can definitely relate to the desire to do it! I came across an article a couple weeks ago that made me think of doing the same, and it made me think of you. I will link it later when I find it. Basically, it referenced small studies showing better outcomes with staying on Letrozole all the way throughout stims instead of stopping after 5 days. I didn’t try it but I was soooo tempted. If we ever do another round of IVF after this DuoStim I will likely attempt it. (I can’t try it now because there’s no Letrozole in the second part of Duo.)

Diagnosis (if you've been): RPL/RIF, 3 blood-clotting disorders, DQ Alpha Match, AMA, DOR

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): WTO/WFor second egg retrieval

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): I have one more day off before starting the second round of stims for DuoStim IVF.

How are things going?: Things have been good. The egg retrieval last Friday took a lot out of me. I felt great after the anesthesia and we took a flight home later that day. But I was mostly in bed the entire weekend. Absolutely exhausted, bloated, and in abdominal pain. Today I feel good & almost normal. The only bummer is that today was a very busy workday and I didn’t notice until the end of a late-afternoon meeting that I haven’t gotten a Day3 update from my clinic.😟 I called as soon as I realized but they’re already closed. This sounds ridiculous, but I also never discussed if we were going to freeze on Day 3 or try to grow to Day 5, so I feel like I really blew it with not getting in touch with them today. FX I can get a response first thing by tomorrow morning!

Any questions?: NATM. Just want to say “Thanks!” to @acleverusername for your response to my question over the weekend regarding this IVF weight gain. I’ve definitely let myself “just be in the process” in the past with medicated cycles, but this is the first time the weight has hung on for dear life for months on end! I’m going to try to gently walk this week and see if that helps…

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week? I finally have a normal work/life balance back this week! Only today was scheduled to be busy, then it’s easy-peasy for the next 6 days. It feels so good to be normal again!

optimistgardener · June 2021

@kiki047 I don't know if this makes sense, but I feel like because of my situ being single my alphabet started somewhat further along than most, maybe E or F (because ordering frozen sperm and tracking cycles accurately and being committed to investing $$$), but then I got pretty stuck at that point for a while, only progressing to G (IUIs) and then leaping into the middle of the alphabet suddenly with major abdominal surgery for fibroids (K?). but after recovering from the surgery I went backwards for a while to G, just doing natural IUIs for a while before moving to simple medicated IUIs (H?) and then going in for the injectables with my new, real fertility clinic, which felt like a big leap for me (L?). IVF was a huge decision, and the decision to embrace it felt like I'd really sort of hit the latter part of the alphabet (I can understand why for others it would be earlier in the alphabet, though!). So I think I'm in sort of OPQ territory now.

@acleverusername I totally understand the desire to go rogue with the dosing, although i feel like i should do my part here to try to reel you in. Doubling your Menopur is a lot! Maybe you could direct that rebellious energy into some very pointed questioning of your clinic about why they have chosen the dose that they have chosen, and why they have not chosen something like the dose you'd prefer? It's a good thing that they've upped your Gonal-F, though! Hopefully that will be the push your ovaries need. But I'm not in the slightest concerned about your decision to go ahead and turn your cancelled cycle into a superovulation timed intercourse cycle. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD! DO IT!

Diagnosis (if you've been): AMA, DOR, 1 ovary

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): BC cycle while waiting for egg retrieval cycle

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): as above. swallowing all the supplements and waiting to kick things off

How are things going?: Good! I manage to squeeze the good news out of my taciturn ultrasound tech this morning (I went in to the local clinic for a mid-cycle monitoring because I was so anxious about a cyst forming again) that I have no cysts. I got a call later in the day from my fertility clinic to confirm that everything looks good.

The nurse from my fertility clinic told me that my AFC was 10, which is great by my standards, about as good as it gets! Maybe the supplements are helping? I'm mildly shocked that my AFC is so high while I'm on birth control, and just hope it will still be in that ballpark when I do my baseline ultrasound for my stims cycle on the 4th of July.

The only other thing my not-very-chatty ultrasound tech said was that she could see that I have a couple of small fibroids growing. I know this already because they found them back in November or December. I was reassured at the time that the fibroids are not likely to be causing any problems because my RE did a hysteroscopy in January and saw no evidence that they were deforming my uterus. When I asked the tech today if they had changed any since the November scan, she said they had not. So, fine. I will not worry about them unless the folks at the fertility clinic start worrying about them. I'm pretty sure I don't have the bandwidth for another major surgery.

Any questions?: Like @acleverusername, I'm also plotting a minor rebellion. Mine is regarding the timing of removing my nuvaring. They want me to remove the ring, wait 2 days to get my period, and then turn up for my baseline on CD3. I'm anxious that in those 5 days one or more of my follicles will have jackrabbited into the lead, so I'm tempted to leave the ring in for an extra day (so "CD3" would really be CD2). I'd rather have to do the extra stims to make up for a less developed crop to start out with. Am I making a mistake with this line of thought?

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week? My dad and his partner have told me they're going to drive down to see me this week. I'm excited about that because I haven't seen him since well before the pandemic started! On the other hand, our relationship is kinda sorta stressful (we're at different ends of the political spectrum, for starters, and he is otherwise full of opinions and seems to enjoy arguing as a sport). So I'm sort of excited but also anxious. Hopefully we can keep the conversation light!

[Edited several times for grammar/order/etc. Sorry!]

daisy0322 · June 2021

So I kind of feel like plans A- About J or K where just kinda up and taken from me but I’m actually feeling really good about my new doctor team. The NaPro even called me yesterday to talk to me about how I’m feeling and let me know he’s hopeful and he really is invested in helping and wants to also work with my OBGYN that’s been supportive. It was so kind of him really and his nurse that patched me through already knew all about me and was really nice too.

Diagnosis (if you've been): POI genetic cause- fragile X carrier status

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): waiting on doctors - were probably starting HRT in July

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): nothin

How are things going?: good I’m feeling at peace with the medical team and we are on the embryo donor list too (it’s 2 years long so I decided to just hop on that now)

Any questions?: So I got the pink stork fertility tea basically for the hell of it, but think it may be giving me headaches. Any experiences?

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week?
My husband is the hero of the game at the local MLB game this weekend! He’s so excited and I am too actually. Also this is next week but we’re going on a mini vacation and it is desperately needed.

Back for tags later 🥰

kiwi2628 · June 2021

@kiki047 I got to plan F. Ahhh...to be young and think an IUI would work for me again...

A: get pregnant first try with a bunch of sex
B: get pregnant after trying and tracking
C: get pregnant from medicated IUI

TTC naturally while pretending to be on meds for insurance sake...
E: get pregnant from first IVF
F: get pregnant from second IVF

Glad you got to hug your brother! We have been seeing our friends recently too and its been amazing!

@acleverusername we are going to do a natural FET so no meds except for an hCG shot to trigger. Probably around the 15th. As for the menopur- I have never heard of anyone taking 300 menopur. I have heard of 75, 100 and up to 150, but never more than that so I probably would not do so much as I would worry about impacting egg quality

@keikilove the town we moved to last year is basically Stars Hollow from the Gilmore Girls. Its fantastic. So they have a newcomers group which is a group you can join in the first 3 years after you move here and they have BBQ and happy hours and kids events and crafts nights and all kinds of things to help new people meet each other and make friends. I hope you got in touch with your clinic this morning!

@optimistgardener I would talk to your clinic about it. I ovulate fairly early in my cycle (day 11-12) and for my first IUIs my doc asked me to come in on day 11 for my first u/s and I straight up said I wanted to come in earlier so we didn't miss it. He was skeptical but when I went in on day 9 for my first u/s and I had a big fat 16 mm follie, he was very happy I had pushed to come in early.

@daisy0322 glad you are feeling good about this new place

optimistgardener · June 2021

@acleverusername for what it's worth, my menopur/gonal-f doses are set to be 225/225. when I look around at other people's doses, i gather that it is less common to take the two as equals. it seems like often people take less menopur than gonal-f. I proved myself on my first injectable cycle to be a fast responder to 150iu of menopur alone. obviously everyone is different.

daisy0322 · June 2021

@kiki047 hmmmm that’s odd that happened with the blood draw. As an RT I only ever did arterial blood not venous. Arterial te dscto have more things that can go wrong which is why phlebotomists don’t usually handle it and even Nurses shy away from it a lot (at least in my neck of the woods). I do t have much experience with veins but I do think that’s weird thing to happen. Without looking at it I’m not comfortable guessing though. Moreover her attitude was awful though she definitely wasn’t listening to you either.

@kiwi2628 Im so excited for you getting close to transfer day! The newcomer group sounds like so much fun!

@acleverusername I’d be taking advantage of that super ovulation cycle as well tbh but 3000IU is a lot, a lot of menopur and as a medical professional I gotta say please listen to your doctor and medical team - we get real up tight when people go rouge but as a fellow infertility sufferer imma like

But like really don’t because I like you and if anything goes wrong that would be bad- and not fun to explain

@keikilove oh no Im sorry i hope they call you tomorrow and update with good news!

@optimistgardener the tense family politics is real girl! I hope you all just get to enjoy each other too! That’s good news on the fibroid front though

bumblebee0210 · June 2021

Weirdly, for me this is like plan B (or maybe C?). We went straight from trying naturally to the full enchilada.

@keikilove Ah! I remember saying you never wanted to wait for day 5 blasts again, but maybe no news is good news? My doctor always calls when the cycle goes fully bust.

@acleverusername Maybe a good reason not to overmedicate is that then you will not ever be able to convince this or another doctor that your special protocol worked/didn't work vs. the actual protocol you were prescribed? In other words-- clean data!

@optimistgardener. Great stats! exciting it's finally happening!

@kiwi2628 omg that town sounds adorable

@daisy0322 That sounds fun!

@kiki047 Yikes-- that sounds terrible. Also there are definitely nerves all over your body-- like, that's why things hurt. There are very few places with no nerves (like your cervix).

AFM...

Diagnosis (if you've been): RPL, DOR

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): WFAF, starting priming tomorrow

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): priming part of an estrogen priming cycle for ER #4

How are things going?: ok. It was *really* nice to have a month off after 3 back-to-back cycles. But I'm kind of anxious to start up again.

Any questions?: Does Clomid make you feel weird? I have heard bad things but I think they were mostly about lining, and since we are doing a freeze-all it doesn't matter for us. I just feel like everyone hates Clomid and I am curious why.

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week?
My husband is the hero of the game at the local MLB game this weekend! He’s so excited and I am too actually. Also this is next week but we’re going on a mini vacation and it is desperately needed.

keikilove · June 2021

@bumblebee0210 I was so thrown off by your GTKY response matching Daisy’s exactly!😆 But then I realized you must copy/paste from someone else’s post and then delete their answers and type your own. It’s even easier if you copy from the original post at the very top of the page, but maybe your phone/computer doesn’t let you do that? // So glad you got to take the month off and are now feeling good about going into this 4th retrieval. Your body probably loved that break too! I feel you on being anxious—all of the unknowns lead to a lot of nerves. I hope this estrogen priming protocol is just the ticket for the results you want.🤞🏽(No Clomid experience here, but I’m sure others will chime in shortly.) // And thank you for the good wishes! Yes, I did say that about never waiting till Day 5 again, hahaha. Turns out I didn’t get a choice this time, update below.

@optimistgardener OMG, your good news just keeps coming! 😊 Great news about no cysts, the fibroids aren’t changing, and what an awesome AFCount!! I truly hope that all of this means you’re getting set up for a wildly successful IVF cycle. Also, your ABC list makes total sense. It’s so interesting to think about it this way and see everyone’s journeys laid out like this. FX we all get to go join BMBs before getting to Z.// Your nuvaring plan: I’d take it out a day early or just tell the clinic you want to go in on CD2. That’s not too early. Good luck with your dad’s visit. Just try to stay above the fray with any hot topics.

@daisy0322 It’s great that you are feeling so good about your medical team! July will be here before you know it to get things started with HRT. Have fun this weekend at the baseball game! Also, loving your gif game today😄

@kiwi2628 Your town sounds amazing. Have fun with that event!

Excuse me if this question is too prying, but with your ABC list, does that mean you got PG each time?

Also, did you bank the medicated IUI meds to use for IVF? I’m always interested in learning about others’ approaches to makingIVF more affordable.

keikilove · June 2021

UPDATE: My clinic got back to me. Stats in spoiler.

We had 6 eggs collected, 4 of which fertilized. I heard from the clinic the next day to learn that all 4 made it to Day 2. Then I heard nothing on Day 3 yesterday. Today my doctor let me know that all 4 made it to Day 3, thank you Jesus!!!🙏🏽💗 So 3 were frozen and 1 is being grown to Day 5, hopefully. I feel SO relieved knowing that we have 3 on ice, even if they aren’t tested. It makes it so much easier going into this final round of DuoStim next week. A lot less pressure and anxiety than previous cycles. I feel like I can breathe a lot easier, even though we all know anything is possible.

optimistgardener · June 2021

@keikilove yay!!!!

@bumblebee0210 i only took clomid for one month so i don't have a lot to say about it, but i didn't feel radically thrown off by the side effects. folks complain bitterly about its effect on mood, but i can't say it made a big difference for me.

kiwi2628 · June 2021

@keikilove reply in spoiler below *TW* live children mentioned

Not too prying! I think one of the benefits of this board is the ability to learn from other peoples journeys- both their triumphs and failures, to help you learn more and be more educated about our own trials and testing and cycles. So literally no question is off limits with me. But no, we didn't get pregnant with all those if thats what you mean. naturally didn't work, tracking didn't work, IUI didn't work and our first IVF cycle was asuch a failure we didn't even get to egg retrieval. We called it off because my 30 year old self with an AMH of 2 only made 3-4 follicles after like 11 days of good stims. We switched it over to just trying naturally that cycle (I knew it wouldnt work, so I wasn't worried about quads or anything). My second cycle of IVF we changed to an entirely different protocol (microdose flare protocol) and I got a 8 mature eggs that turned into 5 embryos from that cycle and did a fresh transfer which became my son.

As for how it went from IUI to IVF, I was very lucky in that my insurance paid for a large portion of our fertility treatments, with a lifetime cap. They did, however, require us to do 6 medicated cycles, with at least 3 of those doing IUI, before they would allow us to move onto IVF. So after trying naturally for almost a year (I had short cycles, 22-24 days, so I felt comfortable going to an RE after 10 months), my RE asked if we wanted to do medicated cycles or move straight to medicated with IUI. I said of course IUI- it ups our chances with meds so why not. So we did 3 medicated IUI cycles off the bat. My RE then showed me research about how after 3 medicated IUI cycles, the chances of further cycles being successful is so low that moving on to IVF was recommended. But again, insurance wanted 3 more cycles, so I told my RE we would take it easy those 3 cycles and not do IUI- why go through the extra stuff if its unlikely to work, and my insurance only paid for 3 so I wasn't about to pay for something unlikely to work OOP, and so every month I got my clomid from the pharmacy and chucked it. I didn't want to put extra meds into my body when I knew in my heart it wouldn't work. We all know these meds aren't benign to our bodies so I wanted to minimize what I could, so we took those 3 months to just TTC naturally- went on an awesome vacation to Marrakech, and once I 'did' 3 medicated cycles, my insurance ok'd IVF so we did it!

Also CONGRATS ON THE EMBIES!

keikilove · June 2021

@kiwi2628 Ah, I see! Thank you for sharing in such detail, very informative. I think I misinterpreted your list where it said “get pregnant with ___”. I guess it was your plan to “get pregnant with XX” at each step of the way but nothing worked till IVF. I agree with you too: the more we all share about our own experiences, the more we help each other understand how to navigate this whole crazy IF world. It’s so interesting to me that you had such a good result with the microdose flare protocol! That was what we did my very first try at IVF about 9 months ago, and it wasn’t great for me. It’s fascinating how each body responds differently to these meds.

mokay19 · June 2021

Hello, everyone! I just reintroduced in the newbie thread and I would like to hop right over here since we’re going into treatment right away.

Diagnosis (if you've been): PCOS

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): about to be on BCP prior to hysteroscopy for polyps

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): nothing yet... prepping for surgery

How are things going?: well, I’m not happy about developing more polyps, but I’m glad I’m able to get the procedure scheduled for July 7th and move forward with a squeaky clean uterus!

Any questions?: So last cycle, we tried my usual 7.5mg of Letrozole and it didn’t work. Then I did 7.5mg Letrozole with 100mg Clomid and that did work to develop 1 mature follicle. Has anyone with PCOS jumped to some injectables? Or when would you make that decision? I know I’m at risk for overstimulating since I have an AFC greater than 30 on each ovary, but that also means that I don’t always respond great to the meds and I almost feel annoyed that I only made 1 follicle on the double meds 🤷‍♀️

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week? DH’s band is playing on Saturday and I love watching them!

bows22 · June 2021

@mokay19 I’m having a hysteroscopy to remove polyps on July 6th! And am on BC right now too because of it. Do you know what your plan is for post-surgery, like will you come off BC right after and then jump to your medicated cycle? I haven’t heard what my plan is yet so am curious. I don’t want to waste any time with my “squeaky clean uterus” haha

kiki047 · June 2021

@kiwi2628 I have a lot of anxiety about starting to see other people that we haven't seen this whole time, but it sure felt good to see my brother.
@acleverusername I'm hoping it isn't permanent damage but from what I gather from Dr Google, the pain could last a month or more. I'm trying arnica both topically and orally, and I have an anti-inflammatory bandage that I wear at night and when I need a bit of extra support so I don't aggravate it (like when I'm driving, golfing, etc).
TB has been weird for me all weekend and wouldn't let me comment so I'm only now expressing my sympathy for your cancelled cycle. But I'm with everyone else when I say YES take advantage of the superovulation this cycle and HIO because why not? As for your meds, if TEW gave her blessing for your new protocol with the increased Gonal-F, I personally wouldn't want to jeopardize anything by doubling the menopur, as much as I was tempted to play with my own dosages because I was on a microdose protocol that didn't feel like it was doing "enough". Lastly, I thought of you when they announced the lifting of the quarantine hotels for fully vaccinated travellers, and what that means for you to be able to visit. Yay!!!
@keikilove wheeewww friend, I just let out a holler of joy when I read your ER update from the clinic. I am so happy for you! Hope you enjoy your last day of relief before starting stims again. FX this second half of your DuoStim goes much smoother.
@optimistgardener your logic about starting somewhere further along in the alphabet makes perfect sense to me. And yeah, if we count my ill-conceived (hah, no pun intended) notions that I'd "accidentally" let myself get KU by my ex back in the day, do I count that as Plan A on my road to TTC? .... nah, lol. Yay for no cysts this cycle, sorry about the fibroids though. Hopefully they just continue to chill and don't make a scene. Same with your visit with your Dad. Sending you lots of peaceful, neutral thoughts for a pleasant reunion that you can both enjoy. Oh, and thank you for the links/tips on the spring garlic last week, I'm going to look into that more!
@daisy0322 oh 100% she wasn't listening. I can grin and bear my way through a lot but something felt wrong and I expected more from a medical "professional". I submitted a complaint through the patient experience portal of the hospital. Probably nothing will come of it but I feel better having done that. That's cool about YH being the hero of the game - is he in the military? Does he get to go out on the field or anything like that?
@bumblebee0210 I'm holding my breath to see if estrogen priming helps you this cycle - I really hope it pays off for you, and that your much needed break was everything your body and soul needed to regroup. I had no idea the cervix doesn't have any nerves...! Interesting! There was definitely some kind of nerve in that area of my arm though because YOWZA.
@mokay19 hey welcome back! I saw your intro and recognized you right away. My memory isn't great so I'm trying to remember if any of our grads had moved on to injectables due to PCOS (as opposed to other reasons like DOR or AMA). If it comes to me I'll come back to tag them. Sorry you're benched while you wait for your surgery, but I smiled at your "squeaky clean uterus" comment. FX!

All this talk about banking meds and tips and tricks to help lessen the financial burden of IVF had me thinking about my expired meds too... I have expired Gonal-F and Menopur from my last cycle that we didn't get to use in time, and I don't know what to do with it. I know some desperate women would take it as a donation, and Clever sent me that reddit thread to look at but... it feels wrong. I've been tempted on more than one occasion to just use it. I have used letrozole unmonitored but I definitely wouldn't dare trying to self-medicate with injectables without monitoring so I gave myself a scolding for even thinking it and here we are.

daisy0322 · June 2021

@kiki047 actually ever hospital I’ve worked in complaints are pretty serious if you use the persons name and it’s legit. So that’s good you did that. My hubs is army. He’s in the guard now but he’s done 2 tours and has 9 years in so far. Civilian side he actually works with the military too but on the space force side among other things. He’s job is top secret though. I just have seen space force challenge coins he’s been given and he has space force clothing he’s been given. His friend has cuff links with the insignia and they’re super cool. For the game he gets introduced during one of the innings and they gave us pretty good seats. He also gets a challenge coin (which he’s excited because he lives collecting those he’s got some rare ones and you have to earn them or be gifted them) and some other “swag” type stuff. I had to write a bio about him for them to read for his intro too. My cousin was the hero of the game (we both have big military families) and so many people came by his seat to buy him beer or bring him food that he was having to give it away to people lol so there’s always lots of fans who do nice things and come by and thank them too which is nice.

keikilove · June 2021

@mokay19 Wow, that is bewildering that you could have so many follicles on each side and then produce only 1 mature with meds. Do you know what the explanation is for that? FX that your polyps clean-out in July resets everything so that your body responds beautifully to the next round of stims!

@kiki047 Thanks so much for hollering with joy for me!😄 I just love that we all have these reactions for each other despite being “virtual” friends.💕 I just wanted to chime in about your expired meds. (I feel like shielding my face preemptively with this response as well as the response I gave to Clever about the similar question regarding self-medicating.) Basically, I’m the enabler friend who says “Go for it!”….. and then hopes I won’t be kicked out of the friend circle later for giving potentially bad advice!😬 Anyway, I’m part of a big med group online where people donate their meds and ask questions about using expired meds. The ladies there swear that the meds stay good for anywhere from 3-12 months after expiration date. Many of them used them in monitored cycles and had success, and some used them in unmonitored cycles with varied rates of success (but no stories of doing any damage to their bodies). So this is purely anecdotal! Just my two cents that I'd probably try it.😉 Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Speaking of all this, @acleverusername, did you ever see my reply about getting HGH for cheap/free? Were you able to take advantage of the company’s coupon?

optimistgardener · June 2021

@bumblebee0210 and @kiwi047 i just gotta jump in here about the cervixes have no nerve endings thing. it may be true for some, but I had a couple of cone biopsies of my cervix along the way, and can guarantee you all that my cervix is full of nerve endings. The poor doc who attempted my first biopsy without local anesthesia after explaining to me that I wouldn't be able to feel anything... his ears are probably still ringing because I bellowed.

@kiwi047 i have no clue about nerves in the arm, but i do know that when phlebotomists go digging around in my veins, they often struggle to find a good spot for longer needles because for some weird reason my vein structure is "short and branching" (as described by the frustrated phlebotomist who tried to get the big anesthesia needle in my arm in prep for my myomectomy). the result is they're able to get the needle into the vein, but it immediately bumps up against a wall and is pretty uncomfortable when that happens. it super sucks that the woman doing your blood draw didn't listen to you and was so careless.

mokay19 · June 2021

@bows22 oh yay for a hysteroscopy buddy haha. I’ve had one of these done before in 2019 and I had the procedure done mid-July, my post-op check late July, took Provera to induce a period, the started a treatment cycle mid-August. I’m hoping all goes smoothly and I can follow that same timeline... and hopefully it does for you, too!

@kiki047 yes, I don’t remember if people had used injectables for PCOS either! My doctor hasn’t mentioned it yet, but I’m trying to do some research ahead of time based on my response to the double meds. Also, when you mentioned the issues from a bad blood draw, it made me realize that my finger tips on my arm were tingling on Friday after the nurse was digging around for a vein quite a bit. I have a huge bruise from it and at one point she went quite deep. I could not figure out why I was having that tingling until I read your post! Luckily, it stopped for me the next day!

@keikilove they essentially explained it to me that since my AFC is so high and my hormones are naturally quite unbalanced, it takes more to even “activate” my ovaries and overcome that imbalance. On my first monitoring appt, I’ll always have around 4 follicles per side that show the start of growth, but then I always only get 0 or 1 to make it past the point of no return

daisy0322 · June 2021

@mokay19 oh wow they fit you in quickly for your procedure that’s great! What kind of band is YH in?

@bumblebee0210 I’m not totally sure about clomid but my doctor has said she prefers femera based off a few recent studies. I’m sure someone else here knows more though

mokay19 · June 2021

@daisy0322 he's just in a cover band with his friends. He's played with most of these guys since high school so they have a lot of fun together!

@bumblebee0210 I've taken both Femara, Clomid, and both together. I'm someone who is prone to migraines and I get them regularly so I was always nervous about Clomid since I've heard such bad things about headaches and such. However, I didn't feel that I had any additional or worse side effects on it. I feel like over the years of taking Femara I've even developed more side effects than before so I don't attribute anything specifically to Clomid. I would say that my new hot flashes from Letrozole were worse with the Clomid added but easily manageable.

daisy0322 · June 2021

@mokay19 that’s so cool! What instrument?

mokay19 · June 2021

@daisy0322 he plays guitar and sings!

inthewoods23 · June 2021

@kiki047 I for the most part have not had issues getting my blood drawn. I did once have someone dig around forever because my right arm has a nice big juicy looking vein but it likes to roll around a lot. I get a bit squeamish feeling that needle after a while and had to ask them to use my left arm. I would not be surprised at all if a nerve gets aggravated. Hope the pain goes away quickly for you ❤️. That reminds me that likely all my FET meds are expired at this point. I think I have a whole unopen vial of lupron, and that was like $500 with insurance!

@kiwi2628 your FET is getting so close woo!! Those days leading up to the start of cycles is always so exciting

@acleverusername I'm no medical professional and neither are you so I'd leave it to them 😆. I can't even remember what meds do what. I have a question for you actually - you had YH on ashwagandha at some point right? How much was he taking a day?

@keikilove so glad you're embryos made it to day 3! Is the plan to transfer any day 5s first before these day 3s?

@optimistgardener AFC of 10 is great! That's what my RE liked to see at a minimum. And yay for no cysts!!

@daisy0322 if you have someone who specifically wants to give their embryos to you, does that eliminate the point of being on the wait list? No idea if they allow you to do that 🤷‍♀️ is YH's job really top secret if you know he works with Space Force? 😆 DH's company runs tests for government projects, but that's all he's allowed to tell me so it doesn't seem that secret if you know what branch of military is involved.

@bumblebee0210 really hoping this cycle works out great for you and the break pays off!

@mokay19 👋👋 that's awesome that your surgery is so soon!

I may do a check in later (still feels weird to do) but I had to jump in on the plan # discussion since my situation is a bit unique now.

Plan A - try naturally + OPK (I started these maybe after 2-3 months so I'll lump it in here)
Plan A2 - get pregnant on honeymoon because I was actually ovulating that week
Plan B - try naturally, OPK, + temping

Plan C - IUIs with letrozole and trigger

Plan D - FET

Plan E - FET after GF/DF diet

Plan F - get 2nd opinion and hope they say we could go back to plan C 😆
Plan G - go back to plan E after first dose of MMR vaccine

Plan H - go back to plan B + GF/DF diet

I think we're going to transition to Plan I starting next cycle which is plan H + covid vaccine because getting a vaccine has been the only different thing from all of these past cycles where I had success and I have to know if that is some other key that I'll never understand.

daisy0322 · June 2021

@inthewoods23 if we went with their embryos we wouldn’t have to wait no.

mokay19 · June 2021

@inthewoods23 did you end up sticking with the second opinion place? If I remember correctly, your second opinion place is the fertility clinic that I use.

keikilove · June 2021

@mokay19 Oh, I get it now. So all those follies are sitting there but they’re not necessarily responsive to stimulation due to hormone levels being out of whack. Got it. Sorry, that must be so frustrating!! FX that they respond like a dream on this next go-around.

@inthewoods23 Ah, so you’ve decided to take the vaccine! Like you’ve mentioned before, I also delayed mine because of the potential to mess up cycle timing and I couldn’t afford to be waiting on AF for who knows how long. (My sisters who are vaccinated had issues.) More thoughts in spoiler.

Interestingly, I’m in a huge group online (yes, another online group hahaha! 40k+ members) for women who are either TTC or already PG and are about to/have already been vaccinated. They share many research studies and anecdotal results of getting the vaccine; almost every single person who posts has had a good experience with getting vaccinated. The peace of mind they have is very convincing! However, some women have mentioned how badly it messed up their cycles (and their friends’ too) but when they tried to report the effects to the CDC (?) or VARS (?) they were dismissed. They were told that the effects couldn’t be directly connected to the vaccine unless they were in a study. Apparently, we aren’t doing a good job in this country of tracking how the vaccine actually affects women of child-bearing age (surprise, surprise🙄). Anyway, in Israel they made huge efforts to vaccinate everyone quickly and many women reported impacts on their cycles. So the U.S. is doing a joint study with Israel to track the adverse affects on that child-bearing age population. It will be super interesting to see what comes out of that. My plan is to get vaccinated after egg retrieval and before transfer. 🤞🏽 the timing all works out!

Yours is a really interesting theory that the vaccine may help you get KU. I don’t think it sounds far-fetched at all. In the online immunology group there are women who’ve realized they can only get KU when they’re sick (so something connected to their immune system) and some of us have made the connection that we can only get KU after taking antibiotics. It stands to reason that a vaccination does something to your immune system that allows you to conceive, whether it has something to do with good inflammation or a bunch of cells fighting the good fight to keep you healthy. 🤷‍♀️ It’s worth a shot to see if it makes a difference (hah, look at that pun!).

Ok, I’m gonna attempt the ABC list and see where I end up. TW for mentions of PG & loss. ETA: I also ended up 'spoiling' it because the list got unexpectedly long. Please excuse all the details, it’s the only way I can keep track of everything.

A: Try to get PG naturally 2 months before our wedding.
B: Start tracking & temping, try to get PG days before wedding. (Speshul snowflake success, then unexplained loss at 18 weeks.)
C. See an RE, get lots of RPL tests run. No answers except MTHFR mutation and PAI-1 blood-clotting mutation.
D. See several MFMs, beg for prescription for blood-thinners. No dice.
E. Keep trying naturally, 6-week loss.
F. See hematologist, get prescription for blood-thinners, iron injections, and folate.
G. Meet new RE, begin some typical immunology meds (baby aspirin, prednisone, blood-thinners). 5-week loss.
H. Try natural IUI #1 on my birthday! (Success, then CP)
I. Natural IUI #2, another CP
J. Discuss IVF with RE, apply for insurance approval. Denied because "patient can get PG naturally". 👿
K. Begin researching Reproductive Immunology. Get on doctor's 6-month waitlist.
K. Ask RE to run Natural Killer cells test. Results come back positive but we don't know exactly how to interpret.
L. Add intralipid infusions to the mix to hopefully bring down NK cells.
M. IUI #3, CP
N. Meet with Reproductive Immunologist. Have tons more tests run, get on a lot more meds. She suggests weekly IVIG infusions but insurance rejects and we can't afford the $3000-$5000 per infusion.
O. Try intralipid infusions again to bring down NK cells. Re-run tests with RI. Does not help lower NKs.
P. Natural IUI #4, CP
Q. Keep trying naturally while researching every free moment
R. New insurance approves IVF! IVF attempt #1, ovulate through BCP
S. IVF attempt #2, fresh transfer, and first IVIG infusion OOP, no success
T. Try natural on our own since more fertile after IVF meds, CP
U. First medicated IUI (#5), no implantation at all
V. More reproductive immunology tests with yet another dr, learn we have a HLA/DQ Alpha match
W. Go to MX for LIT treatment for DQ Alpha match
X. We've exhausted our IVF coverage in U.S. so we meet with new RE in MX
Y. DuoStim egg retrieval in MX
Z. Insurance approves IVIG!!! Begin weekly infusions
AA. Frozen transfer, Dr. adds Humira/Enbrel to immunology protocol, no success
BB. Medicated IUIs #6-8, one CP
CC. Added Neupogen to the last IUI, no luck
DD. We are currently in the second IVF attempt in MX, in the middle of our second DuoStim. We will try Neupogen again before transfer.
EE. I'm also adding Tacrolimus to the meds mix.
FF. The last thing to try is Januvia to assist implantation. It's a long shot.
GG. If none of this works we have to go with a gestational surrogate, which we can't afford, or draw a close on this long chapter in our lives.

That was way longer than I thought it would be. ETA: I forgot a few things like meeting with a naturopath, who prescribed Vitex and Maca to regulate my cycles, which worked. I also tried fertility acupuncture with a couple different doctors, and met with an allergist/immunologist who ended up getting my insurance to cover the IVIg. It's been an all-consuming three years!

inthewoods23 · June 2021

@daisy0322 that's good. At the same time I might be weirded out knowing that it was a friend's biological kid. But that's just me.

@mokay19 their suggestion was to go back to my first RE for another transfer. Scheduled that MMR vaccine since I knew I'd have the end dose before the transfer would occur (it's always 2+ months out) and *tw* ended up KU that cycle before I was going to call my RE. Miscarried unfortunately, but it proved we could get pregnant on our own so we've been trying naturally again for the last 7-8 months *end TW*. DH told me the other day not to go to that mall as some of his co-workers have been mugged and robbed so... 😆😬

@keikilove I've been trying to find info on that! I did see one article that mentioned the flu shot helping and of course googling "vaccine and implantation" or anything like that pulls up . I was thinking if I get the vaccine after my period ends but before O that my cycle shouldn't get too wonky (outside delayed O maybe). Do you know much much antibiotics would need to be taken and when? I happen to have some doxycycline (?) from a derm for flare ups of acne. Maybe that'll get me KU 😆

keikilove · June 2021

@inthewoods23 Ha! I’m adding you to the list with Clever & Kiki (and myself!) of those of us who are willing to try anything, including self-medicating!😆 As far as the antibiotics, it just happens to be Doxycycline for those of us who made this same connection with antibiotics and success TTC. As far as dosing, I can only speak for myself and my experience: it was the usual 100mg in morning and 100mg at night. I have my theories that it is attacking a long-standing infection I have hidden in my tissues from a prior illness (others in the immunologist group had the same illness and similarly good luck with Doxy). So, not sure if it would work for you if you don’t have any infections hiding out, but my understanding is that a short dose of Doxy isn’t going to hurt anything either. Just don’t stay on it for too long! Ya know, overuse of antibiotics tearing up your gut health plus making bacteria resistant, etc. (I hope TB doesn’t kick me out for unwarranted medical advice. I am NOT a medical professional!)

daisy0322 · June 2021

@inthewoods23 yeah that’s kinda my hold up and all four participating adults have to pass a check with the therapist at the RE office that we are all okay with it and agree to the arrangements

kiki047 · June 2021

@daisy0322 that's suuper cool about YH being recognized for his military service, and it sure sounds like he has an interesting job, super secret or not. Being Canadian my only knowledge of the Space Force branch of the military is the Steve Carrell show on Netflix which is all kinds of ridiculous, so that made me chuckle a little bit.
@keikilove thanks for your input on the meds - I am more likely to take the gamble on my own body than to push someone else to do it. I'll probably give the letrozole a try even without my RE's approval. And goodness friend, I just want to give you the biggest hug. Seeing your journey written out like that really reinforces just how much you've been through over the years, and I have so much admiration and respect for you. With that many roadblocks and so much heartbreak, you remain THE most humble, kind, positive person out of all of us and it is downright impressive. I sincerely, hope you don't need/reach Plan GG.
@optimistgardener that reminds me, when I had my SHG the way they inserted the catheter made me hit the roof, just that one time. The other 2 times were fine. Don't know if it was a nerve or just some other kind of pain receptor but yikes. It also sounds like pain/discomfort during blood draws is more common than we realize, and it's frankly a little concerning. My veins have held up pretty good for the most part through this whole process, and I've had a LOT of blood tests, but my poor husband always bruises like a peach which doesn't help his phobia.
@mokay19 ugh, another blood draw story. Glad yours was short lived. And I hope you're able to figure out the magic potion to kick your follicles into action. If letrozole/clomid don't do it for you, that's the logical next step. I expect you might just need to be monitored more closely to make sure you don't recruit too many follicles at that point.
@inthewoods23 I have 2 almost full boxes of menopur that expired in November, and a brand new 900iu Gonal-F pen that expired in January. I was originally going to donate it back to my clinic to give to someone in need but they told me initially to hold onto it "just in case" we'd need it again, but of course by the time we needed another ER they had already expired. Go figure! Glad to hear you're going to go ahead with the vaccine and see where you land after that. Immune responses are often so mysterious. FX for you!

AFM, I put in another referral request for a new clinic in town that seems to offer RI services even though they aren't technically RIs. Hoping to maybe be able to get in there even before we meet with the REI and we can weigh our options. I don't think it will hurt. May still also try to get on a wait list for an RI in the US.

ETA: Whoa, I already have an appointment date booked within 30 mins of submitting that referral request. It isn't until July 26th but it's a full month sooner than my other appointment. Going to go into it with an open mind and see what they have to say.

daisy0322 · June 2021

@kiki047 haha that’s funny- yeah that’s basically all I know about what he does in the one office but he works in two buildings the other is a scif or whatever. He has a top secret clearance and I dont really get to know where he travels very often but I honestly don’t care enough to parse details lol He enjoys it which is all that matters 😁 hopefully your new appointment will be good and you’ll like the team. It seems like getting in quickly anywhere is a challenge.

mokay19 · June 2021

@keikilove exactly. They're basically just blocking each other from actually maturing... not physically, but hormonally blocking each other.

@inthewoods23 yes, I would never go to this mall otherwise! Also, I always have 7am appointments to go before work so the mall isn't even open at that time (thankfully!)

Avrilmai · June 2021

@kiki047 I feel like we're through the first part of the alphabet for sure, similar to Kiwi2628. we did the whole "just have fun with it"(I'm on a desktop but insert eye roll emoji here), then did tracking and temping and opks. then muliple medicated cycles, 4 IUI cycles, w/3 IUIs, and 2 rounds of IVF.

@acleverusername I say go for it with a super ovulation cycle and TI. As for the meds, I wouldn't double up on the menopur at least not without their direct instruction. I'm still getting to know everyone and their stories/history. Have you talked w/your new RE/clinic about the reason for this specific protocol?

@keikilove yay!!! for 3 frozen and one more growing these days are so stressful. hope you're doing something to take care of yourself.

@kiki047 as for expired meds, have you contacted your RE's office, sometimes they will take donations of meds and distribute to patients as needed. I was on a crazy high dose of follistim and needed like one more vial to finish my stims and my REs office supplied me with one. just a thought.

@kiwi2628 so excited for you to move forward

@mokay19 welcome back from a fellow returnee.

I'm going to try to catch up...

Diagnosis (if you've been): unexplained (with low AMH), AMA

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): on BCP preping for FET

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): FET

How are things going?: up and down, my estrogen was too high at the start of the cycle. today I had a follow up for a new baseline after 10 days of bcp. now I'm waiting to find out if we can move forward or if i have to stay on bcp longer. I had a 13mm cyst so hopefully it's not producing anything. waiting for lab results is to anxiety provoking.

Any questions?:

GTKY: What is one good thing that you are looking forward to this week? 90th bday party for my DH's grandfather.

bumblebee0210 · June 2021

First of all, sorry for the duplicate GTKY! I am crazy with work and was trying to pop in and say hi quick but of course I botched it. FTR, MH is NOT being honored at an MLB game-- @daisy0322that sounds so fun!

@keikilove. YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OMG. YAY YAY YAY. Was your protocol different from the last duostim? I can't remember. But yay.

@optimistgardener. Also yay for you lady-- I have so many fingers crossed there is one keeper

daisy0322 · June 2021

@bumblebee0210
Because when I was in high school people actually said stuff like this

optimistgardener · June 2021

Hey guys. I feel like maybe I should post this somewhere else, like maybe the mental health check-in for this month (but it's been a while since anyone posted there plus it's nearly July)... But holy heck I am having a really hard time containing my anxiety about the upcoming cycle. Mainly, I am so anxious it will be cancelled again. I spent all of about 10 hours pretty excited about that high AFC from my mid-cycle ultrasound, but then started wondering why it was so high when ostensibly birth control is supposed to suppress the ovaries. I did some reading here and there and it turns out that women with DOR and higher FSH levels sometimes partly override the suppressive functions of hormonal BC (which explains my cyst and the common occurrence of cysts in lots of women taking BC to downregulate before an IVF cycle). So, maybe my high AFC is an indicator that my body is trying to override the nuvaring? Anyway, I called the clinic yesterday to hear what the nurse thought about my theory of taking the nuvaring out a day later, and she felt like it wouldn't help because there's always a chance that a follicle could run away once i take it out, and that while it's in there's always a chance i could develop a cyst, and there's nothing i can do to change either of those things. She also noted that my current AFC is unlikely to have any relationship to what my AFC will be on the day of my baseline check in a week and a half. Sigh.

I'm still tempted to take the nuvaring out a day late, because it makes sense to me that if the nuvaring is at least partially successful in stopping the body from selecting follicles for growth, then that's one less day in which my body can start pumping its energy into one of my follicles.

Someone tell me I should go for a walk or something. Yeesh.

Oh, and I poked around a bit in my fertility clinic's online portal. It's pretty primitive and there's not much there, but I did find an after-visit summary noting that the "patient seems to suffer from anxiety." True.

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