Our Circumcision Decision — The Bump
3rd Trimester

Our Circumcision Decision

Sorry to bring up a sensitive subject...I know there's already a lot written about this out there.  I just wanted to share why we ultimately decided not to circumcize, even though it was almost a forgone conclusion for us to have it done when I found out I was having a boy. My husband is circumcised after all, so it seemed like the 'normal' thing to do. I think the way I arrived at a decision was atypical, so I thought there would be some value in sharing.  Anyway...
Long story short, after a conversation with friends I ended up taking a deep dive into online resources published by medical organizations in other countries. There are only five other countries in the world with a history of routine infant circumcision: UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Korea. Although the majority of boys in these countries used to have the procedure, circumcision rates are in very steep decline or practically eliminated in EVERY country. That's right, it was 'normal'...until it wasn't. Why? The medical establishment in each country decided the procedure was an unnecessary risk with dubious benefits. As a result, the circumcision guidelines published by foreign medical bodies tend to be more comprehensive than ours are. At the same time, they are much less in your face or biased than some of those anticircumcision websites out there.
I don't want to play activist here...this is a deeply personal decision and all advice should be given weight. I just encourage expecting parents to seek out resources from some of the countries I mentioned in order to make what they consider the best decision. If you care to take a look, here is a link to page that shifted my attitude towards circumcision. Notice how similar it is to American medical literature supporting the procedure:

https://raisingchildren.net.au/guides/a-z-health-reference/circumcision
knottie33a6b9aa7fb030cfknottie960207ed8c5a860e

Re: Our Circumcision Decision

  • Ditto harpseal. Also, only those five countries with a history of routine circumcision? I find that hard to believe considering it’s such a widespread Jewish, Christian and Muslim practice. 
    chichiphinknottieab12db5e4303d9bepaytonpedro
  • Loading the player...
  • Just to clarify, the five countries I mentioned, including the US, are the only ones that have a significant history of circumcision for non religious reasons. Obviously it's widespread in Israel, Muslim, and African countries where the tradition goes back thousands of years.

    I don't know if I'm 'screaming don't circumcise'... obviously I made the decision not to, so I do hold a position...at one point I was really on the fence however. I just wanted to share my story with other people in the same position. I posted this on 3rd trimester so as not to offend anyone who has already reached a conclusion. I'm sorry...it's very hard not to come across as insensitive or preachy discussing this...
    knottied31307ad810414e9
  • Just to clarify, the five countries I mentioned, including the US, are the only ones that have a significant history of circumcision for non religious reasons. Obviously it's widespread in Israel, Muslim, and African countries where the tradition goes back thousands of years.

    I don't know if I'm 'screaming don't circumcise'... obviously I made the decision not to, so I do hold a position...at one point I was really on the fence however. I just wanted to share my story with other people in the same position. I posted this on 3rd trimester so as not to offend anyone who has already reached a conclusion. I'm sorry...it's very hard not to come across as insensitive or preachy discussing this...
    I guess, the question is, whats the point of the post if its not to persuade? 
  • Agreed that it's a personal decision and there's a lot to it.  As an American, I know I was surprised to learn how much less common it is in other parts of (even the developed) world.  FTR, there is no religious reason as a Christian that it need be performed, either.  We don't have boys, but as team green we had to do some hard looks into it prior to delivery, after which I think even DH was surprised at how his position evolved the more we learned.
  • HIV-guilt the parents?  Really???
    <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/c4/4ok89zx4qyju.gif" alt="">
    That individual would no longer be my kids' pediatrician, faster than you can say, "hippocratic oath."
  • He wasn't shaming me, he was giving me medical information.
    I did what I thought was best for my sons given the information. Likewise, I'll be taking my daughter to get her HPV shot to prevent cervical cancer. Whatever I can do to protect my kids here and now, I will. If my sons get all bent out of shape about me circumcising them since I did so without their permission I'm telling them this is my reason. I can't imagine undergoing a procedure on my genitals as an adult that could've been handled easily as a newborn when they don't have any memories of it happening.

    harpseal135cait32swizzlemalarkeypaytonpedro
  • <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/b1/nbr9ps7dq236.gif" alt="">
    I'm sorry.  I didn't realize you live in UGANDA.  Based.
    grogu
  • You're totally entitled to your opinion.  I just think it sounds 100% fear-based, which is not how I choose to live my life.  And frankly, it makes me feel sorry for you. :/

    I personally have a thing I like to call, "first do no harm."  Recognizing that just because he doesn't remember it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.  Absolutely, there may be real and justified reasons based on a family's personal situation.  But as a woman who had providers try to <i>scare me </i>into consenting<i> </i>to a c-section without a TOL, and then to see providers try to <i>scare parents</i> into cutting their child when he's "too young to remember," to my mind, seems pretty grim.

    You may feel it's justified.  I'm also allowed to say as a counterpoint, FOR MY CHILD, I wouldn't consider HIV prevention a justifiable argument. 🤷

    I also didn't cuss at you.  I am merely trying to point out for any other new or future parents out there, just because a doctor says a scary-sounding thing, or even presents a journal article or glossy brochure, doesn't mean that's necessarily the right decision for you.  Parents ought to be empowered to research and think for themselves.  White coat syndrome is real.  Hopefully you're in a position where you trust your providers implicitly, but that's not always the case.
    parentalunit321
  • I also find it a fascinating social commentary on how quickly popular culture has shifted away from valuing low-intervention medical care, staunch promotion of patient / parent advocacy, my body my choice etc. to doctors know best, trust the Science, we can't be too careful!  SMH. Blown by the winds.  I am personally NEVER going to stop advocating for my kid(s).  Sometimes doctors know best, sometimes mama knows best.  And this mama bear never went anywhere! Lol<div><img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/2g/ru9peywilzd3.gif" alt="">
    </div>
  • edited March 2021
    @chichiphin  Uhm, GIRL???  That's literally what I just said a couple posts above.

    The *first thing I said, actually*
    <div class="Quote">BusinessWife member</div><div class="Quote">March 12</div><div class="Quote">Agreed that it's a personal decision and there's a lot to it.  </div>
    We can all agree to do own research, and be empowered to make whatever choices we feel are best for our own families.  That there may be valid circumstances for one or the other.  Glad to see once again, after all the <i>unecessary</i> <i>DRAMA</i>, to see we are actually in agreement.
    <img alt="" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/qc/o6x1wtmzbpuz.gif">

    Lates.
    <img alt="" src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/9z/2b53pgun8x34.gif">
  • Businesswife... when you have to hold your kid down for a catheter come call me and tell me how it feels. I only had to do it once and I was shaking and crying as hard as my daughter. My friend had to have her son undergo that multiple times, PLUS forcing dye into this bladder and kidneys, PLUS have major surgery to fix a problem that could’ve been prevented by circumcision. All on a small child, no pain relief. I’ve seen these issues in a few kids in my life who are uncut. My boys pee free and clear like a majestic river and I am damn glad for the choice I made. You do you but my choice was far more than fear based. My sons love and play with their dongs as much as any other boy 🙄 plus they won’t have to screw around with the skin to stop the odor. And knowing my oldest son it’s a good thing the circumcision is done because he does not like washing up. I can only imagine the hygiene battles I’ll have with him as a teenager but I digress.

    Saying my personal choice is fear based is uncool. Experience is a cruel teacher and I refuse to put my kids through hell over a flap of skin they will never miss.
    swizzlemalarkey
  • <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/5j/xkh4ldie61bl.gif" alt="">
  • @BusinessWife you choose you, others chose themselves - sorry but if we had a son he would have been circumcised, just by the research we had done! Sorry but people will so what they feel is best for the sake of their child!
  • edited March 2021
    Why are you saying sorry? @harpseal135 Do. You.  🤷

    I am only playing devil's advocate if you will, because clearly the provider bias in the United States is towards performing circumcisions.  (Arguably, pretty radical ones at that.)  A parent is not going to get provider pushback in most cases from making that choice for their child.  However, if choosing NOT to have it performed - in THIS country - parents are likely going to have to stand their ground if it's something they feel strongly about.  You're not stating a controversial opinion by saying that was / would have been your choice to do.  That is why I believe OP brought up the topic in the first place, to bring awareness to the opposite viewpoint.
  • @BusinessWife in my experience (my son was born September of last year). My providers were all very non-judgmental thankfully. I spoke to my midwife about it at one of my prenatal appointments. She told me it’s more expensive to get it done at the hospital and I found out that the pediatrician can do it at the office. Honestly circumcision wasn’t even brought up at the hospital.
    *TW* I had a difficult labor/delivery and my son had an IV For antibiotics in his foot pretty much our whole stay so getting him circumcised was the last of my worries at that moment. Everything was all good though. 
    *END TW*
    However after conversations with my H we did decide to circumcise and we got that done when he was a week old and also a tongue-tie revision. But I had to bring it up that we wanted to do it. No one made us feel bad and I feel like it would’ve been the same either way. I’m sure they would give the statistics if we had asked what they recommended though but I had already done the research. We are in Oregon so I’m sure it varies in different parts of the country.
    cait32[Deleted User]paytonpedro
  • @coco2787 I'm sure the emotional nature of my response to what the provider told another parent was colored by my own personal experiences of pediatrician fear mongering.  And I do stand my by *personal opinion* that any doctor who tried to market the procedure to me for *my child* on the basis of HIV prevention would no longer be my provider.  Period.

    <div class=" Spoiler">In all loving kindness, I would sincerely hope someone does have a better reason than _______ <i>scary thing my doctor said and handed me literature about,</i> (and she indicated that were was in fact more that went into the decision than that), but you are absolutely right that at the end of the day it's not my kid, not my decision.  What do I care.</div>
    Those kind of provider situations *do* make me a legit ragey however, because I have been in them more than once and I don't tolerate it anymore.
  • @BusinessWife I'd really love an answer to my question. And I know you're not busy cause you've been posting all over various threads. So....
    Download Gif Waiting  PNG  GIF BASE

    *TW*
    Me: 32 │ DH: 35 
    Married 8/16/13
    BFP#1 DS 11/13/16
    BFP# 2 MMC dx @ 13w 10/30/18
    BFP# 3 Preemie DD born at 38w (IUGR) on 8/28/19 weighing 5.5lbs. Our little miracle  <3


    swizzlemalarkey
  • DH is a doctor and when he was in medical school or residency (I can’t remember which one) he had to sit through a seminar about a man whose foreskin got an infection and had adhered to his penis. He ended up needing to have the skin cut away from the head of his penis and then a circumcision to keep it from happening again. He walked away with strong convictions that our sons be circumcised. Even the idea of something like that happening to one of our sons was horrifying to him. So we have chosen circumcision every time. DH went back with our last son when the doctor did it and he said it wasn’t bad at all. He was giving him sugar water the entire time and he slept right through it. 
    You definitely have a point and I agree with it.
    emeraldcity1214
  • @zuuls_mom
    <div class=" Spoiler">You don't know me (but apparently you're following me), and I'm not your sister.  I don't owe you any explanation.  Suffice it to say it's got zero to do with homophobia or CLASSISM. 🤦
    <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/t0/evs4csra989v.gif" alt="">
    Spoiler alert: The answer to the question is not always to spin the wheel of, "because racism, because classism, because priviledge," etc. </div>
    I did not wish to come back to this thread because certain individuals have chosen to single me out and attack me for whatever personal reasons, and I'm not interested.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I was attacked on this thread for reasons that have nothing to do with this thread, and lurkers took the opportunity to jump on board and pick me apart, too.  Frankly, it's tacky.

    I have long been a well-respected member of this community, and I have no time or love for ANYONE WHO WOULD SEEK TO MAKE THE BUMP UNWELCOMING.  Which is exactly what certain individuals have done.
  • <span>From the article:
    "circumcising males <i>seems </i>highly <i>desirable</i>, <i>especially in countries with a high prevalence of HIV infection</i>"

    The article's conclusion is merely the authors's personal opinion, using terms like, "seems desirable," and then going on to state the rest.

    </span>
    <a rel="nofollow" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate" title="Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate</a>
    Granted it's Wikipedia, but I had to scroll pretty far down this list to even get to the United States.  Which is where I live.  So.


    Clearly my personal opinion is WRONG, because I'm a privileged homophobe.

    That's how this reads to me.
  • @BusinessWife Funny because you were making TB "unwelcoming" by posting rude and condescending responses to those of us who chose circumcision for our sons and then getting nastier for being called out on it. I know you're a well-respected long standing member of the community which is why I was shocked by the tone of your reply after I said I listened to my pediatrician when he gave me medical advice. I always thought you were pro-science. That's the vibe of these boards which is what makes it better than other goofball boards that feast on crazy.
    swizzlemalarkeyshamrocandrollpaytonpedrogalentine
  • edited April 2021
    Now, I'm a Science-denier, too.  @wishiwasreggo  Which is about the WORST thing a person can be, right?  Thanks for that!

    The study was done in Uganda.  Their rate of HIV infection (in 2017) was 6.1%.  That's a lot.  Top countries on the top of the list?  27%, 23%, 22%, 17%, 13%, 12, 12%, 12%, 9.5%, 7%, and then Uganda.

    I snarked someone for citing science that I believe <u><i>does not support </i></u>the recommendation for parents <u><i>in a country where the rate of HIV infection is actually quite low, at 0.4%</i></u> (as of 2017).  I read the study, and I came to my own logical conclusion, which is like, what actual Scientists do.

    You are just proving, case in point, that this thread turned into a witch hunt.




    @cait32  Then you also remember that real snarkiness used to be such a joyous thing around here.  Now people can't even take a gif.
    <img alt="Bored Kill Me GIF - Find Share on GIPHY" src="https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3oKIPbnrmUYev49pgA%2Fgiphy-downsized-large.gif&f=1&nofb=1">
  • @BusinessWife you were the one that kept bringing up HIV and acting like preventing it was so beneath you. Like how could anyone in your position with a child ever have to worry about a sexually transmitted disease! 🙄 you literally said you would find a new doctor over it. So yeah, it does sound classist and homophobic. You can be mad at me all you want over it, but it’s how your replies sound.

    PS, just because you comment on every thread on TB doesn’t mean you’re well respected. 
    *TW*
    Me: 32 │ DH: 35 
    Married 8/16/13
    BFP#1 DS 11/13/16
    BFP# 2 MMC dx @ 13w 10/30/18
    BFP# 3 Preemie DD born at 38w (IUGR) on 8/28/19 weighing 5.5lbs. Our little miracle  <3


    swizzlemalarkeyshamrocandrollpaytonpedro
  • @zuuls_mom Just because a couple of nasty girls decided to cancel me doesn't mean I deserve to be treated that way.  This is literally our first interaction and you've made up your mind (which says a lot about you), and yeah, I actually am, by any of the ladies who actually know me.  My response to the HIV issue was highly exaggerated because they decided to pounce on me here.  So honestly, if this doesn't constitute a SHIFT IN TOPIC @BumpAdmin I don't know what does.
  • @BusinessWife I’m not sure who is “canceling” you but all I did was point out that your attitude about being questioned about HIV prevention was incredibly holier than thou and I figured as an intelligent woman you would appreciate the education. Besides, you’re the one that kept mentioning HIV so I think I’ve remained on topic. 
    *TW*
    Me: 32 │ DH: 35 
    Married 8/16/13
    BFP#1 DS 11/13/16
    BFP# 2 MMC dx @ 13w 10/30/18
    BFP# 3 Preemie DD born at 38w (IUGR) on 8/28/19 weighing 5.5lbs. Our little miracle  <3


    swizzlemalarkey
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards