@profmcgonagall I meant elective without a medical reason! A repeat c-section counts under medical reasoning, in my opinion. I meant more of the "I just don't want to have a vaginal birth" reasoning.
Can someone please explain why they are so against even non-medically indicated c-sections? I just dont get it. It seems such a stigma and people seem to use "risks" or "less healthy baby" as reasonings, but it seems like such a smoke screen for birth shaming a woman for choosing that route.
@aefsparrow personally, I've never experienced a vaginal birth so I don't know how "easy" or "hard" it is comparatively, but my experience with having c-sections is that they're hard and can be scary and dangerous. I don't support choosing something that is more dangerous for yourself and your baby if you're capable of having a vaginal birth and just don't want to do it. There are risks for sure and I don't know why anyone would choose to put themselves in that situation without a medical reason.
And maybe support is the wrong word for me to use? Have your baby however you need to have it, but I don't think it's a good idea and will definitely roll my eyes at someone who wants to have a c-section for funsies.
I think every mother just wants a healthy baby after birth and whatever method allows that to happen should be supported.
Do I want a c-section? No, I would hate for things to turn out that way, but if it is medically necessary for either myself or the baby then I would do it. I do believe that some hospitals push c-sections and other interventions (Pitocin, forceps, vacuum-assisted delivery, episiotomy) more than is medically necessary and that is why I chose to go to a birthing center. I know that not all women can go that route and I hate that just because a woman is high risk or prefers to have their baby in a hospital setting they might be subjected to pressure to have interventions they might not want. I believe that if I had delivered my son at a hospital things could have turned out very differently.
I think the most important thing regardless of the birth plan or birth outcome is for the parents to be knowledgeable and informed on all that could happen and understand the options that they have.
@aefsparrow for me it's simply a risk and recovery thing. Sure, we have streamlined the procedure as much as possible, but opening the peritoneum is never a small thing. Comes with risk of infection, adhesions, weakens the uterine wall (even though we have improved that with the direction of incisions), risk to future pregnancy particularly if short interval in between, risk of injury to other organs while in there, etc. It's a large enough incision through multiple layers of tissue, so it is more difficult to recover from in general and typically keeps the mom from getting back on her feet as fast. It has also been shown to delay milk coming in and delayed breastfeeding. Also, delayed skin to skin and/or ability to be with baby immediately after birth due to length of time to close post c-section. With that knowledge, I can't imagine electing to go that route without a reason myself (and yes, I include repeat C-section or prior birth trauma as totally valid reasons) and don't understand why someone else would do so either. I'd be open to hearing reasons, even if they don't apply to me!
I don’t know if any of you watch Adam Ruins Everything, but he has one on babies. After watching it, it opened up my eyes to how much shame there is in birth, and parenting. It definitely made me judge how others decide to go about birth and parenting babies much less. I have my own beliefs and ideals, but they are just that. It also freed up the pressure I put on myself to have, or raise a baby a certain way.
So while I might be against an elected c-section, I also realize that that is between the mother and her doctor. I also don’t think there should be pressure to have an elected c-section from the general public (or even a medical professional) because again that is between the mother and her doctor.
I have already been shamed for taking low dose aspirin to help prevent preeclampsia. I have done my research after being prescribed it by my doctors. It doesn’t feel great to be told you’re wrong when the person won’t even listen to your point of view. So I have my beliefs, and you ladies do you.
Everything @carrotsandpeas3 said. What doctor is consenting to a non-medically necessary invasive surgery!? I have never even heard of such a thing. If the reason is due to PTSD or trauma or whatever other reason that *is* a medical indication, not just because they want a CS.
I guess I come from a place where honestly the method of birth is a highly personal choice, and while for some it may not be considered "medically necessary" (which by the way most doctors dont consider mental health factors to be) it could be easier for the birthing mom in terms of access to support and resources, such as having a set date for work, since not all employers provide ease of access to maternity care, partners/family being able to coordinate time off more easily as they may only have a few days available. I had a friend whose husband could only get 3 days off of work for the birth and his company put that within a window so if the baby was early or late he couldn't take any additional time. Beyond all of this however I feel like we assume people who choose a c-section dont understand the risks or extreme measures, when in fact almost every doctor will try to talk you out of it by throwing every scary fact at you and a lot of strangers, nurses, family members tend to look down on you and shame you for it. Mine is not a choice, but I am still getting so much flak from people. It's almost as if (about to make a broad generalization) a lot of people think all women who chose c-sections are selfish idiots who have blinders on.
@aefsparrow valid points but I think it's more of a sad reflection on our society that people are put into that type of scenario in the first place with an expectation to know exactly when it will happen. Induction is also another option although not as fast. I ended up induced at 40+3 last time (even though my practice usually didn't induce until 41 weeks) because DH had to go out of town the day I was due to turn 41 weeks.
@aefsparrow I couldn’t agree more. I have absolutely no opinion on this other than get that baby out however you damn well want to. Keep it safe! Nobody else’s business to be against something you do to your own body (except maybe your doctor’s). Murky territory otherwise.
@aefsparrow personally, I've never experienced a vaginal birth so I don't know how "easy" or "hard" it is comparatively, but my experience with having c-sections is that they're hard and can be scary and dangerous. I don't support choosing something that is more dangerous for yourself and your baby if you're capable of having a vaginal birth and just don't want to do it. There are risks for sure and I don't know why anyone would choose to put themselves in that situation without a medical reason.
And maybe support is the wrong word for me to use? Have your baby however you need to have it, but I don't think it's a good idea and will definitely roll my eyes at someone who wants to have a c-section for funsies.
Well it’s a good thing no one out there is choosing to have major, abdominal surgery for funsies 🙄 That’s the kind of patronizing, hyperbolic language that is so problematic IMO.
@aefsparrow personally, I've never experienced a vaginal birth so I don't know how "easy" or "hard" it is comparatively, but my experience with having c-sections is that they're hard and can be scary and dangerous. I don't support choosing something that is more dangerous for yourself and your baby if you're capable of having a vaginal birth and just don't want to do it. There are risks for sure and I don't know why anyone would choose to put themselves in that situation without a medical reason.
And maybe support is the wrong word for me to use? Have your baby however you need to have it, but I don't think it's a good idea and will definitely roll my eyes at someone who wants to have a c-section for funsies.
Well it’s a good thing no one out there is choosing to have major, abdominal surgery for funsies 🙄 That’s the kind of patronizing, hyperbolic language that is so problematic IMO.
Someone judging a person who doesn’t have a choice is one thing, but we are discussing someone choosing to have a CS without a medical need. I’m still not understanding that. I have never heard of that being allowed?
@coldbrew because it doesn’t happen- there is always a reason, and implying that some aren’t worthy or medical (often times dismissing mental or emotional health concerns) is just a way to undermine women’s autonomy and capacity for informed consent.
Editing to add ACOG calls what we’re talking about “caesarean on maternal request” if anyone is interested in reading more about it, and the things professionals consider not medically indicated.
Yes because god forbid medical professionals say no to anything. The autonomy argument can go both ways. Yes, we have the upper hand because patients are coming to us for services, but OB care is already the most litigious field of medicine. I cannot imagine how much doing an nonevidence based and not indicated procedure would open them up to being simply destroyed legally if anything were to go wrong. Doctors are people too--just trying to do their best, take care of their patients, but also take care of their ability to continue to do their jobs. Okay, off my soapbox.
@carrotsandpeas3 I’m not disagreeing with you or saying drs should perform surgery for no reason, caesarean on maternal requests are rare exactly because OBs do refuse surgery without an indication. That’s why the idea that women are choosing surgery for “funsies” is ridiculous and not rooted in the reality of birthing choices.
@Kurtni I think this discussion all started by someone saying that women should be allowed to have a c-section without a reason or no matter the reason. I know you are taking issue with the phrase "for funsies." I maybe would use the phrase "for their own convenience" instead.
I'm thinking (and this is just me) that caesarean upon maternal request was more of a thing in the 90s when it was still relatively new and we were seeing a major uptick in elective surgeries in general (plastic surgery boom), so many women (not all) were choosing this route instead of vaginal delivery for cosmetic reasons. Maybe that's an urban legend, I don't know, but I agree that it's not as commonplace nowadays as it was 20-25 years ago. I also think this is why doctors spend time educating their patients on the seriousness (major abdominal surgery, recovery time, etc) of having a c-section, so that their patients know ahead of time what to expect should they need one whether or not that is part of their birth plan.
...And this is why finding supportive information regarding planned c-sections is so challenging. I really just wanted to know some people's individual reasoning for disparaging others (not medical risk etc). It's a sensitive subject all around, and I too @Kurtni bucked up a lot at the word "funsies". There is a large disregard for womens choices even in the process that should be theirs to guide. I agree that major surgery for the sake of convenience is not a choice I would make, but if we are being honest people do it all the time (plastic surgery, dental implants etc). I think people unfairly judge those that have c-sections, and disparage the doctors that allow it. No c-section is done for no reason.
@aefsparrow I can tell this is a touchy subject for you and you're having a hard time wrapping your head around others who may not be as pro-caesarean as you are, and that's okay. I stated above the reason why I am apprehensive about having one (because there has been many studies showing a link between autoimmune disorders and those born via c-section). So, it's not just about the mother's choice, but also the potential risk to the baby's health, as well. So there's a lot more to consider than just the mother's choice/needs, as well.
@Kurtni so the OB doesn’t feel it’s medically necessary but performs major surgery anyway? Something isn’t adding up here.
A victim of sexual violence choosing caesarean is not medically indicated. Someone with prior stillbirths choosing caesarean isn’t medically indicated. Those would be examples of caesarean by maternal request. Many would consider those things medical indications because of mental health, but statistically they’re considered caesarean by maternal request which is less than 3% of all caesareans.
The idea that you can just waltz into the hospital and get a caesarean section for no reason is absolutely an urban legend.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't count the number of times that I've heard a woman or even one of my friends say that she would prefer to have a c-section because a vaginal birth sounds scary/she doesn't want to do the work/she doesn't want her vagina to be "ruined". So I guess for me that falls under the category of "for funsies". Sorry that my word choice ruffled feathers, but it's how I feel. As I said, I've had 3 c-sections myself and I'll be having a 4th; I don't think it's a decision to be made lightly or because someone doesn't want do do the work of having a vaginal birth and I certainly roll my eyes at those types of comments every time. I will gladly support someone who's had a c-section just as I would someone who's had a vaginal birth, but it doesn't change my opinion on choosing to have a c-section for no medical reason.
Edited to add: I feel strongly about this because these types of comments make me feel like I took the "easy" way out when in fact, no form of birth is easy. So when someone to says to my face that they want to have a c-section because it sounds easier than having a vaginal birth, it makes me mad.
@babyodo this seems to be a "touchy subject" for everyone. @themoonandme I think it's amazing that you have the perspective of someone that has had several c-sections, and I'm sure that hearing someone describe it as a "less painful/easier" option would be angering. As someone whose only choices were no baby or c-section I spent a very long time and many hours of research before I decided pregnancy was an option, but I also had to do a lot of research to find a doctor that wouldn't force me to "try" before going to a c-section, and that is with several medical reasons. I've had to switch Ultrasound doctors twice because they lectured me on vaginal birthing and questioned my medical hx and its validity. I honestly did not expect the severity of the reactions that I got from my question, but perhaps that's why it's an unpopular opinion.
@aefsparrow there was absolutely nothing wrong with your question. I noticed some people on here like to condescend. It IS possible to be against something for your own bodies, ladies, while simultaneously NOT judging someone for making their choice. Do whatever works for you. And if someone judges you then THEY’RE the asshole. But don’t pass that judgement along.
@Rena21 if only "do whatever works for you" would not result in complete chaos in the medical world. I admit that I have a different perspective as a medical professional and cannot in good conscience support something that is totally against medical advice or evidence. I hate to hear that people are feeling judged for their completely legitimate reasons for having c-sections, and do not support that judgement that these women have received (not from here!) for their c-sections. I think it is totally fine to leave this topic where it is, as we are allowed to go on having different opinions on the topic without judging each other or turning this into some kind of name calling session.
@carrotsandpeas3 as others have pointed out, it’s not about going against a doctor’s wishes. The decision is to be made between the patient and the medical provider. Whatever that decision is is none of your business unless you’re directly involved. I have a hard time believing that the number of women who are doctor shopping in order to get a c section for the hell of it outnumber the number of women who are making the decision with their health providers. It’s like saying that everyone who gets plastic surgery does it illicitly in Brazil or wherever because their doctor said no. Sure those people exist but they’re not in the majority.
You can control your own actions, be it on the grounds of ethics or personal or medical opinion, but when we start to judge and expound on the choices of other women we become no better than the white play dough men who try to tell us what to do with our bodies.
@Rena21 I see you have confused disagreeing with a decision at large with judging a person. This discussion began as someone asking why people would be against elective c-section without medical indication. I never said I judge or look down on these people, simply that I would disagree with that decision and my reasons, which I believe was the exact question that was asked. Please continue your righteous indignation against me as a person and equating my opinions to the white patriarchy though if you so choose. However, as I do not see that sort of conversation as useful when you do not know me, I will not be replying further on this topic.
@carrotsandpeas3 when you say “I don’t understand why someone would do so either” that inherently implies that you need an explanation that’ll allow you to approve of what another woman chooses to do with her own body.
For someone who says “you don’t know me as a person” it’s weird that you seem to know so many people on here and are telling them what they are thinking or confusing. Tell me more about the medical profession, please- and also, can you guess what I thinking now?
And now, I’m off MY soapbox (or was that you?)
Edit to say that I probably do know you. I’m sure you’re a white, middle class woman (the kind this app caters to), probably a nurse, who doesn’t seem to be aware of the privilege she has of choosing 1 way of giving birth over another.
@Rena21 your added jab in your ETA was completely unnecessary to the conversation at hand and is toeing the line of violating The Bump's Terms of Use. I'm not the board police, but seriously, the conversation could have continued without you stooping to bringing race or socioeconomic class into a discussion about birth options.
Holy crap I missed some good stuff here. Where do I start??? I really don't judge women based on the birth they have or decide to have. I may however disagree with them and see things differently for myself.
Elective C-sections for non medical reason are absolutely a thing and they are called designer births. They are very common among actresses and generally super wealthy people that don't want to "ruin" their bodies. It is absolutely a thing. I don't have stats on how common they are but they definitely exists.
My stepsister sort of had one of them. Her OB was also her SIL, and she has a private practice. My stepsister did not want a vaginal birth with possible tearing, so she had a C-section and had zero medical reasons for it. I personally was super scared myself of the ramifications of a vaginal birth but I still think that a C-section is MAJOR surgery and it comes with a lot of risks. I completely understand previous birth trauma (or other kinds of trauma) making it easier to go that route and I respect that. But designer births to me are just a bit sad and dictated by our messed up society that doesn't A) Tolerate that a woman's body can be perfectly healthy even when not slim and toned and allow women to heal in the fourth trimester by not supporting maternity leave and by not offering appropriate support post-partum. To each their own, but an elective C-section would never be my choice.
In other news, trying to assume someone's ethnicity, socio-economic status, and occupation is pretty messed up and offensive.
Wow. I forgot how spicy BMBs can get. I'm going to back track a bit - @MJDsquared my DS is 2 1/2 and has never had a haircut so I'm totally on your side with the no hair cut children.
I also think pregnancy parking is lovely although I've literally only seen it at one store and felt too awkward to use it last pregnancy.
And I'm all about cats. I have three and they're lovely. My dog is also kind of a cat and is BFFs with our 9 mo kitten so 🤷🏻♀️
Most tacky onesies are awful. I definitely threw out several ones I was gifted with DS. Like the "Ladies, lock up your daughters!" I couldn't even regift it.
However, my UO is that I love nerdy onesies even if they have silly sayings. One of my favorite onesies said "Snuggle this Muggle" on the front and Mischief Managed on the butt.
Re: Unpopular Opinion 5/15
And maybe support is the wrong word for me to use? Have your baby however you need to have it, but I don't think it's a good idea and will definitely roll my eyes at someone who wants to have a c-section for funsies.
I think the most important thing regardless of the birth plan or birth outcome is for the parents to be knowledgeable and informed on all that could happen and understand the options that they have.
So while I might be against an elected c-section, I also realize that that is between the mother and her doctor. I also don’t think there should be pressure to have an elected c-section from the general public (or even a medical professional) because again that is between the mother and her doctor.
Well it’s a good thing no one out there is choosing to have major, abdominal surgery for funsies 🙄 That’s the kind of patronizing, hyperbolic language that is so problematic IMO.
Due with baby #2: Feb 2022
Due with baby #2: Feb 2022
Edited to add: I feel strongly about this because these types of comments make me feel like I took the "easy" way out when in fact, no form of birth is easy. So when someone to says to my face that they want to have a c-section because it sounds easier than having a vaginal birth, it makes me mad.
Edit to say that I probably do know you. I’m sure you’re a white, middle class woman (the kind this app caters to), probably a nurse, who doesn’t seem to be aware of the privilege she has of choosing 1 way of giving birth over another.
Due with baby #2: Feb 2022
I really don't judge women based on the birth they have or decide to have. I may however disagree with them and see things differently for myself.
Elective C-sections for non medical reason are absolutely a thing and they are called designer births. They are very common among actresses and generally super wealthy people that don't want to "ruin" their bodies. It is absolutely a thing. I don't have stats on how common they are but they definitely exists.
My stepsister sort of had one of them. Her OB was also her SIL, and she has a private practice. My stepsister did not want a vaginal birth with possible tearing, so she had a C-section and had zero medical reasons for it. I personally was super scared myself of the ramifications of a vaginal birth but I still think that a C-section is MAJOR surgery and it comes with a lot of risks. I completely understand previous birth trauma (or other kinds of trauma) making it easier to go that route and I respect that. But designer births to me are just a bit sad and dictated by our messed up society that doesn't A) Tolerate that a woman's body can be perfectly healthy even when not slim and toned and
In other news, trying to assume someone's ethnicity, socio-economic status, and occupation is pretty messed up and offensive.
I'm going to back track a bit - @MJDsquared my DS is 2 1/2 and has never had a haircut so I'm totally on your side with the no hair cut children.
I also think pregnancy parking is lovely although I've literally only seen it at one store and felt too awkward to use it last pregnancy.
And I'm all about cats. I have three and they're lovely. My dog is also kind of a cat and is BFFs with our 9 mo kitten so 🤷🏻♀️
Most tacky onesies are awful. I definitely threw out several ones I was gifted with DS. Like the "Ladies, lock up your daughters!" I couldn't even regift it.
However, my UO is that I love nerdy onesies even if they have silly sayings. One of my favorite onesies said "Snuggle this Muggle" on the front and Mischief Managed on the butt.