After my last kiddo was born, I would have sold my soul for a night nurse. The older 3 were such amazing sleepers, but #4 was AWFUL. He didnt sleep through the night until he was 4 years old. And I couldn't let him CIO because he had such an insane gag reflex that every time he cried for more than a minute or two he would vomit. This is one of my fears. I dont know how I will handle another sleeper like that.
Also, the first 6 months after my divorce were awful since we did week on/week off custody but I love it now. I love the time the kids are here, but I also REALLY love when they are at their dads and I don't have to parent every weekend.
@modoodles I Totally get it for single moms, moms whose husbands are gone for work all the time, really difficult babies who don’t sleep etc. I just think it’s strange that women around me immediately think they need one right off the bat before baby is born. Like it’s just a given....pregnant? Need night nurse. I feel like it’s a status symbol almost.
We haven’t totally figured it out yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if DH becomes a SAHD. I could see it happening considering his salary would (maybe) cover day care and we’re fine on just my salary (I’m a lawyer and he’s a chef/food director). It will be up to him really. I’m fine paying for day care if he feels strongly about working (he does have summers off so it’ll be great to have the first 6 weeks or so together with baby before he goes back to work). But I’m also a smidge jealous that being a SAHD is a logical possibility for him but there’s no way I could do it (financially). I’m thankful it’s an option for us, but it does cause me some anxiety/guilt.
I don’t judge anyone’s child care decisions. I like to assume we’re all doing the best we can. I was also in day care a lot as a kid as both parents worked until I was 7 or 8. I feel like I turned out ok (and not less ok than my siblings who had a SAHM for the entirety of their childhoods).
Shows that are stupid: Friends, Seinfeld, and Sex in the City. As well as "Real Housewives" of anything.
Current pregnancy - First BFP on 1/4/22. Due date 9/13/22.
Four prior losses, no living children - 1 first trimester miscarriage, 1 blighted ovum, 1 chemical, and one extreme premature live birth daughter who died at 15 days old.
@b_1029@rachelredhead honestly I think guilt is just part of the mom job description. Likely because our society likes to judge you regardless of what you do. Only you and your SO know all of your family’s situation and what will work best for you. Staying home, using a nanny, daycare, whatever — one is not better or worse than another. They’re all different and have their own pros and cons. We’re all just doing the best we can do for our families.
@b_1029 I know what you mean. My office is too small to have maternity leave so I will be on EI for as long as I can. When I was younger I had a dream of being a SAHM until the munchkin went to school, but it just isn't feasible
@stlbuckeye132 Open house showers are totally a thing where I am from. For my first, I had a shower from like 2-4ish and people came and went. They snacked, talked to people they knew, and left. I opened gifts if they asked me to--otherwise, I just visited with guests. It was really nice! It takes away a lot of the awkwardness for the guests who may not know other people!
@pretzellover I have to agree with all @stlbuckeye132 said. I think you're making sweeping generalizations about what is best for everyone. You don't know what's going on in the lives of those mamas who are getting nannies. Maybe they have someone to pick their kids up so they can work until 8pm because that means they can afford the weekend extracurricular activities, can spend time with their kids doing fun things on the weekends, or even just because they prioritize college and they need to work that late job to build their child's college fund on top of paying all their other bills.
Maybe they're like DH and me. DD is in daycare from 8/8:30am-5:30pm five days a week. We also get sitters when we want to go out and do things with friends or take a kid-free trip to recharge our batteries. Does it mean we love her less? Absolutely not. Does it mean we don't value quality time with her? Nope! What it means, for us, is that we NEED 2 incomes. It means we aren't cut out to be SAHPs. My daughter THRIVES at daycare. She not only learns more than I'd ever be capable of teaching her, but she is more socially adjusted because she's constantly around friends. The other benefit of all this time away from her...I'm a better parent when I AM with her BECAUSE I take that time for myself. I need that time to recharge my batteries because, while I know I'm meant to be a mom... her mom... I still need time for me. Sorry, not sorry, but I don't define myself as ONLY a mom. I'm so much more and that means I enjoy more than just being a parent 24/7.
I really challenge you to stop the mom-shaming (even if you're only doing it in your own head most of the time) and try to assume the best in other parents. More than likely, they're doing what they think is best for their children and would be crushed to hear that someone else thinks their kids aren't happy, cared for, or loved enough.
@blaf322 YES. You articulated that super well, and said everything I was thinking too. Honestly, I let this get to me more than I should have. As I was getting my daughter ready for school this morning (while laughing, singing, and reading together), I kept having this nagging voice in the back of my head saying, "Do people really think I'm not doing everything I can for her and not loving her enough because I work?" I know some people do, and that's really disappointing and hurtful because it is completely untrue.
@stlbuckeye132@blaf322 guilt/anxiety aside, I really love the idea of being a model of independence, goal-setting, ambition, and prioritization for a future DD or DS. Life is full of juggling acts and I think seeing working parents make time, make healthy financial decisions, inspire teamwork with a spouse...those can all be gifts to a child. A 2 year old doesn’t “get” that, but over the long term those lessons can sink in. I know when I was going to day care and after school care when both parents worked I never felt uncared for. I knew money meant I could play softball and buy books at the book fair. And my parents’ engagement was total when they were with me. I was and am wholly loved and I know they did the very best they could to prioritize my growth. I plan on doing the same for my kiddo.
@stlbuckeye132 I hate that you felt that way! You going to work doesn't mean any of those things and there are TONS of people who agree with us on this. I'm fortunate in that, I don't really care what others think about this subject. It's one I'm super confident about and tend to feel bad for those who judge because it means they must have some insecurities they're projecting onto others. I know I'm doing the best I know how to for her and that's all that matters. I don't really know you, but I'm sure you're a great mama and she knows she's loved.
@rachelredhead yes, completely agree it is great for kids to see! I appreciate your perspective having grown up going to daycare, after-school care, etc.
@blaf322 I am also super confident in our decision for care for our daughter, which is why I'm surprised this bugged me like it did. I think maybe it's because my other BMB is super supportive of each other and I've never felt that mom shame from that group. I guess I was a little taken aback to see it here. Also, I'm going to blame pregnancy hormones haha
@rachelredhead I know what you mean. My mom was a department head in a male dominated environment and they all came to her for advice. I started to appreciate it when I was in my late teens and I am insanely proud of her. She still kept getting calls from the office after she retired At the same time, when I was younger I wish she could have had more time off with us in terms of field trips,etc. We still had a ton of fun going on family vacations so it seems you are damned if you do damned if you don't. You have to do what is best for you and your family and just be present for your kids. That irritating mantra of "It's all about priorities."
I'll admit I felt guilty when I first went back to work after having my daughter (at 12 weeks). She felt small and I felt like we were paying for someone else to take care of her basic needs, when that was my job! BUT, over the following months, I felt that guilt just drop away. I knew my daughter had a strong attachment to me, but also enjoyed seeing her interact with her caregivers at daycare. And as she became more "awake" I realized how much more she was getting out of going to daycare vs the days she would be home with me. Maybe if we didn't have such a great experience with our current daycare I would feel differently, but there's a lot to be said about encouraging your child to form attachments and learn from others during these critical years of development (she's currently 21 months). And while yes I was sad to go back to work at first, I get a lot of fulfillment out of my job, which makes me a happier and more well-rounded person, which (maybe this is the UO in my post) I think is just as important as just being around your child more often. But that's a personal choice that me and my SO were able to make together.
I mostly can’t keep track of who has been talking about what, but general thoughts:
1) Foods you like / don’t like aren’t unpopular opinions, they’re just food preferences. Also on my last BMB there were so many people lying about how they don’t like pizza and it made me so mad every time.
2) I turned down several offers for a baby shower for my 2nd, because I didn’t need anything new. But then a very nice friend pointed out that it’s so nice to have the chance to celebrate good news and life events, that I felt kind of sad I’d turned it down. So this time around, I think if anyone offers me one, I’m going to request a second-hand stuff only shower where I can have used stuff to keep or borrow. Honestly, I wish I’d done that the first time around because it’s kind of appalling how much new stuff gets purchased for babies when they couldn’t care less about the stuff.
3) Doing the SAHP thing used to seem like something I could never do, and now it seems more attractive. But honestly, I’d feel bad that my kids wouldn’t get to go to daycare because they love it so much, and learn so much there. I think anyway you choose to raise your kids in terms of childcare distribution is fine, but I’m totally into the “it takes a village” mentality. And in my world, that village includes daycare and a lot of other people helping!
I’ve been offline since my parents are visiting from the other coast for 72 hours, but wanted to clarify a couple things which I feel are being unfairly misinterpreted.
I never said or implied (nor do I believe) that being a working parent, having a nanny / babysitter / daycare or seeking any other form of help was bad. I have been and/or will be all of the above myself. (My DS will be starting at preschool part-time next Sept, at 2. And when this baby is born I may hire a part-time nanny to help out too).
What I said is there should be a line when too much outsourcing is too much...and begs the question why you chose to have a kid.
The 2 examples I provided were: 1) My coworkers getting baby nurses to care for their newborns from 7pm to 7am so they didn’t have to do it themselves (btw, none of these women had kids & all of them had 16w paid leave and spouses/partners). They just didn’t want to get up at night to care for their kids the first 2-3m. (Also, baby nurses aren’t nurses. They’re just night nannies).
2) A well off neighbor who has her 3 year old + newborn in daycare + with a nanny from 8am to 8pm M-F, then with a nanny ALL day Sunday as well.
@pretzellover I guess I still just don’t judge either of those moms. With regard to there being a line... who draws that line? Who says what’s okay? What about gray areas? You just can’t do that and cater to every situation/make everyone happy.
Regarding mom shaming or not, a mom friend of mine will often repeat “good for her, but not for me”. We all parent differently and may have reactions to those differences on some level. But some people’s choices, just aren’t for me. I think saying “good for her, but not for me” acknowledges our differences, but doesn’t pass judgement.
I think there’s a difference between judging and shaming. We ALL judge and anyone who says they don’t is lying. Yeah I judge moms who don’t work but still have a full time nanny. Actually my brother in law doesn’t work and his youngest is in full time daycare and I judge him for that. But it’s not like I go around telling him how I feel. That would be shaming. I keep it to myself.
@Pascal86 on work holidays when daycares are still open and daycare parents can send their kids to daycare and have the house to themselves....Serious fantasy of mine.
Not to beat a dead horse and bring this back to life, but I was also off TB for several days. This will be my last response but wanted to acknowledge @pretzellover's response to me.
I disagree that you never implied working was bad. You said, "But, the first 3 years are a child’s most critical. And no one is going to love and nurture your kids like family. (I mean, how many of you are giving work your 100% right now!)
My kid massively bloomed within a week of me being home... socially, emotionally, etc. To the point that I’ve decided to stay home until the kids are 2-3 years old (assuming Hs job is stable & we have the financial means)."
Maybe you didn't mean to imply that working was bad, but that definitely implies you think a parent staying home with the child is better than both parents working, and that can make a large group of people feel like shit. In my opinion, one isn't better or worse than the other - they're just different.
Also I agree with @blaf322 that there is a lot of gray area here, and who draws the line on when a child is loved and cared for and when that child becomes "neglected?"
To provide counterexamples to your arguments: 1) I didn't have a night nurse with my first, but honestly, I did really awful with the lack of sleep. Sleep deprivation exacerbated some PPD/PPA I dealt with, and you better believe I "outsourced" some nighttime responsibilities to MH or parents when my parents were visiting. Is that acceptable? Why? Because they're a family member and not a paid person? Maybe the mom you see hiring a night nurse has a husband who's a brain surgeon and he needs uninterrupted sleep so that he's not sleep deprived while doing surgery, and she can't handle all the nighttime stuff on her own and needs some help so she can be a functioning human during the day. It takes a village. Sometimes the village includes paid people.
2) As mentioned, my daughter is in daycare 7:30am-5:30pm M-F which is only 2 hrs/day less than the mom you're judging. I also teach Pure Barre in the evenings twice/week which means I'm away from her 12 hrs those two days. So, I guess I'm basically that bad mom too on those days? Again, I teach PB Saturday mornings and take a class as well, so I'm away from her about 3 hours on Saturdays. She's with my husband and not a nanny during the times I teach. Is that the difference between loved and neglected, or in your mind is she also unloved by me? Is it ok because it's 3 hours and not 12? How many hours is ok and when does it become too much? What about the single mom who's working three jobs just to keep a roof over her kids' head and keep food on the table who has to leave her kids with her mom while she's working to provide a stable life for her kids? Is that ok?
I guess as a general rule of life, I try to assume the best in people. Yes they may make different choices than I would, but if it's not impacting me, why bother worrying about what they're doing? Of course judging people is a part of human nature and we all do it, but I try to catch myself when I'm judging that little Timmy is still using a pacifier (or whatever) and remind myself, "not my kid, not my call."
I don't know about you, but I come to TB looking for a supportive group of women who will help me through a lot of life's most vulnerable and trying times. I want to be able to be honest and not worried about people silently (or not silently) judging me for my parenting choices.
Before I was married one of my jobs was ro nanny 2 days a week for a family with 3 kids ages 2-7. The mom was a SAHM and the dad worked long hours. At first I questioned why they even needed me but now that I have 2 kids of my own with another on the way I totally get it! While I was there to care for the kids, playing taking them to and from school and extracurriculars the Mom was busy doing all of the things that are tedious and take time away from the kids. She did laundry, mowed the grass so her husband didn't need to on the weekends, went grocery shopping and ran errands that are SOOO much harder when you have little kids with you. This way, when I wasn't there she was more free to spend her time with her kids.
Now, as a SAHM of 2 myself I would love to be able to pay someone once a week so I could do the boring things quickly without my kids!
Re: UO Thursday - 12/12
Also, the first 6 months after my divorce were awful since we did week on/week off custody but I love it now. I love the time the kids are here, but I also REALLY love when they are at their dads and I don't have to parent every weekend.
First BFP on 1/4/22. Due date 9/13/22.
@kboydbowman Friends is NOT stupid.
Maybe they're like DH and me. DD is in daycare from 8/8:30am-5:30pm five days a week. We also get sitters when we want to go out and do things with friends or take a kid-free trip to recharge our batteries. Does it mean we love her less? Absolutely not. Does it mean we don't value quality time with her? Nope! What it means, for us, is that we NEED 2 incomes. It means we aren't cut out to be SAHPs. My daughter THRIVES at daycare. She not only learns more than I'd ever be capable of teaching her, but she is more socially adjusted because she's constantly around friends. The other benefit of all this time away from her...I'm a better parent when I AM with her BECAUSE I take that time for myself. I need that time to recharge my batteries because, while I know I'm meant to be a mom... her mom... I still need time for me. Sorry, not sorry, but I don't define myself as ONLY a mom. I'm so much more and that means I enjoy more than just being a parent 24/7.
I really challenge you to stop the mom-shaming (even if you're only doing it in your own head most of the time) and try to assume the best in other parents. More than likely, they're doing what they think is best for their children and would be crushed to hear that someone else thinks their kids aren't happy, cared for, or loved enough.
I'm fortunate in that, I don't really care what others think about this subject. It's one I'm super confident about and tend to feel bad for those who judge because it means they must have some insecurities they're projecting onto others. I know I'm doing the best I know how to for her and that's all that matters. I don't really know you, but I'm sure you're a great mama and she knows she's loved.
@blaf322 I am also super confident in our decision for care for our daughter, which is why I'm surprised this bugged me like it did. I think maybe it's because my other BMB is super supportive of each other and I've never felt that mom shame from that group. I guess I was a little taken aback to see it here. Also, I'm going to blame pregnancy hormones haha
1) Foods you like / don’t like aren’t unpopular opinions, they’re just food preferences. Also on my last BMB there were so many people lying about how they don’t like pizza and it made me so mad every time.
2) I turned down several offers for a baby shower for my 2nd, because I didn’t need anything new. But then a very nice friend pointed out that it’s so nice to have the chance to celebrate good news and life events, that I felt kind of sad I’d turned it down. So this time around, I think if anyone offers me one, I’m going to request a second-hand stuff only shower where I can have used stuff to keep or borrow. Honestly, I wish I’d done that the first time around because it’s kind of appalling how much new stuff gets purchased for babies when they couldn’t care less about the stuff.
3) Doing the SAHP thing used to seem like something I could never do, and now it seems more attractive. But honestly, I’d feel bad that my kids wouldn’t get to go to daycare because they love it so much, and learn so much there. I think anyway you choose to raise your kids in terms of childcare distribution is fine, but I’m totally into the “it takes a village” mentality. And in my world, that village includes daycare and a lot of other people helping!
I never said or implied (nor do I believe) that being a working parent, having a nanny / babysitter / daycare or seeking any other form of help was bad. I have been and/or will be all of the above myself. (My DS will be starting at preschool part-time next Sept, at 2. And when this baby is born I may hire a part-time nanny to help out too).
1) My coworkers getting baby nurses to care for their newborns from 7pm to 7am so they didn’t have to do it themselves (btw, none of these women had kids & all of them had 16w paid leave and spouses/partners). They just didn’t want to get up at night to care for their kids the first 2-3m. (Also, baby nurses aren’t nurses. They’re just night nannies).
I disagree that you never implied working was bad. You said, "But, the first 3 years are a child’s most critical. And no one is going to love and nurture your kids like family. (I mean, how many of you are giving work your 100% right now!)
Maybe you didn't mean to imply that working was bad, but that definitely implies you think a parent staying home with the child is better than both parents working, and that can make a large group of people feel like shit. In my opinion, one isn't better or worse than the other - they're just different.
Also I agree with @blaf322 that there is a lot of gray area here, and who draws the line on when a child is loved and cared for and when that child becomes "neglected?"
To provide counterexamples to your arguments:
1) I didn't have a night nurse with my first, but honestly, I did really awful with the lack of sleep. Sleep deprivation exacerbated some PPD/PPA I dealt with, and you better believe I "outsourced" some nighttime responsibilities to MH or parents when my parents were visiting. Is that acceptable? Why? Because they're a family member and not a paid person? Maybe the mom you see hiring a night nurse has a husband who's a brain surgeon and he needs uninterrupted sleep so that he's not sleep deprived while doing surgery, and she can't handle all the nighttime stuff on her own and needs some help so she can be a functioning human during the day. It takes a village. Sometimes the village includes paid people.
2) As mentioned, my daughter is in daycare 7:30am-5:30pm M-F which is only 2 hrs/day less than the mom you're judging. I also teach Pure Barre in the evenings twice/week which means I'm away from her 12 hrs those two days. So, I guess I'm basically that bad mom too on those days? Again, I teach PB Saturday mornings and take a class as well, so I'm away from her about 3 hours on Saturdays. She's with my husband and not a nanny during the times I teach. Is that the difference between loved and neglected, or in your mind is she also unloved by me? Is it ok because it's 3 hours and not 12? How many hours is ok and when does it become too much? What about the single mom who's working three jobs just to keep a roof over her kids' head and keep food on the table who has to leave her kids with her mom while she's working to provide a stable life for her kids? Is that ok?
I guess as a general rule of life, I try to assume the best in people. Yes they may make different choices than I would, but if it's not impacting me, why bother worrying about what they're doing? Of course judging people is a part of human nature and we all do it, but I try to catch myself when I'm judging that little Timmy is still using a pacifier (or whatever) and remind myself, "not my kid, not my call."
I don't know about you, but I come to TB looking for a supportive group of women who will help me through a lot of life's most vulnerable and trying times. I want to be able to be honest and not worried about people silently (or not silently) judging me for my parenting choices.
And now I'll get off my soap box.
Now, as a SAHM of 2 myself I would love to be able to pay someone once a week so I could do the boring things quickly without my kids!