Yeah, I’m drinking a little here and there too. Mostly convincing DH to visit our friends’ nanobrewery and stealing sips of his drinks there...or getting the bartenders to pour me tiny samples. I’d be comfortable with more; DH isn’t, and I figure it’s a team effort
Just had 1/3–1/2 a glass of wine last night when out to dinner with my husband. I didn’t have any wine at all with my first 2, but did a little with #3 and have with #4.
My kids react well to time outs so we do that here. We don’t spank or hit but time outs so seem to work for my girls. Also taking away screen time works wonders here. It’s sad about much they value that!
My UO is that I hate trigger warnings. I think they are so so SO out of control. *TW* I had a bloody nose this morning *end TW*. I roll my eyes at 90% of trigger warnings I see people post on the internet. Not specific to this group at all, just the internet in general!
@MRDCle I have a m&p popcorn sweater for my 2 year old and I love it. We can easily resell it for what we paid (bought on sale) and so I don't consider myself ridiculous. I think there is a fine line between an opinion and judgment :-)
@mels823 I agree with the TW. I post a few myself but only because I've been chastised for not putting it in front. I believe that any pregnancy board is going to have questions or comments that could possibly trigger someone and if you want to have open and honest conversations with people you should expect that some of those people have had traumatic experiences that they want to talk through.
@sheslikeasunburn - there's also a fine line between stating your opinion and being rude. So, there's that.
Never once did I say that I was judging someone, but I PERSONALLY think it's ridiculous. There's also a reason why it's called Unpopular Opinions, not everyone is going to have the same opinion. If that's how you choose to spend your money, knock yourself out. No one else thought I was personally attacking them, so I'm not sure why you've decided that I'm personally attacking you.
@mrstmoose I don’t feel personally attacked! Moreso sharing my perspective. I agree you are entitled to your opinion. I do think calling people ridiculous is judgement. Maybe that’s my UO.
@Bringmemylongswordho i feel like if i can go through 2 (fairly awful) pregnancies, labor and the months of recovery he can handle a 15 min painless out patient procedure that has little to no side effects.
I actually read an article recently that was from a Mormon woman with 6 kids that gave a very good argument on why all unplanned pregnancies are men’s fault. She ended it with suggesting congress offer all men a free vasectomy as a teenager since it’s easy, mostly painless, reversible and has almost no side effects. Then free or low cost to have it reversed when they wanted to have children. While I didn’t agree with all her points it was really well thought out and had some good reasoning to back it up.
*lurker*
I'd be cautious about describing a vasectomy as reversible. They can be reversed, but they are not a universally reversible form of BC. I personally know a couple where the guy got snipped. They later decided they wanted more kids (already had several) and despite traveling half way across the country to the best doctor in the country, they were unable to reverse it. It was very difficult for them, and they ultimately had a long, difficult, painful and expensive process to adopt more children.
The Mayo Clinic says both that "almost all vasectomies can be reversed" and "success rates ... will range from about 40 percent to over 90 percent."
That article viewpoint seems outrageous and irresponsible to me. One of the things that affects the likelihood of a successful vasectomy reversal is the length of time between vasectomy and reversal with the likelihood of success decreasing the longer it's been. If a 15-year-old boy got snipped, it could be 10, 15, 20 years before he'd want to have children, and his reversal chances of success will keep going down.
@thatbaintforbetty, I read the same article & am completely convinced. my overall takeaway (which I already more or less knew, but now am passionately screaming from rooftops) is that family planning, for the most part, is left up to women. and when the plan fails, women are mostly blamed.
so while there may be one-off cases where a vasectomy isn't reversible, or successful, I think asking a man to at least consider the idea of doing his part to manage reproduction and overpopulation, and just take some fucking responsibility isn't the worst idea.
I think if public policy makers started talking about implementing something like mandated vasectomies for teenage boys, society would do more to hold teenage boys accountable in the first place.
@thatbaintforbetty, I read the same article & am completely convinced. my overall takeaway (which I already more or less knew, but now am passionately screaming from rooftops) is that family planning, for the most part, is left up to women. and when the plan fails, women are mostly blamed.
so while there may be one-off cases where a vasectomy isn't reversible, or successful, I think asking a man to at least consider the idea of doing his part to manage reproduction and overpopulation, and just take some fucking responsibility isn't the worst idea.
I think if public policy makers started talking about implementing something like mandated vasectomies for teenage boys, society would do more to hold teenage boys accountable in the first place.
Obviously mandated sterilization isn't okay. But I agree with @batmama31's point. Although also, that article that you guys are talking about was rife with various medical inaccuracies. But, the gist of the article, and the sentiments behind it were very on-point. It's not just that women get blamed (and carry the burden) when their family planning methods fail. It's also that women are assuming all of the health risks associated with hormonal contraceptives and IUDs! And there are a LOT of risks associated with those types of birth control.
Hormonal birth control was hard on my body, and while I may do it again as a short-term option, there's no way I'm going to remain on it for the next 10 years until I hit menopause (assuming I hit it mid-40s, which is early). I think my husband will probably go vasectomy at some point after #2, although we haven't decided for sure and ultimately that decision is up to him. But again, we are both pretty open to and happy with adoption, in the event that we should ever decide that we want another child.
@professormama, exactly! why is the majority (and sometimes full) burden always put on women when a pregnancy occurs, unwanted or not? if men shared in the IMMEDIATE consequences of irresponsible ejaculations, maybe we'd have less of them.
I totally agree that the burden of birth control should not fall solely on a woman's shoulders- why are we figuratively strapping on bullet proof vests instead of unloading the weapons to begin with?
However, vasectomies are not guaranteed reversible and should never be used as reversible method of birth control. It is very much a permanent sterilization method.
@batmama31 and @professormama in line with the article referenced, I also came across another interesting argument the other day. It was pointed out that, if talking about statistical norms, women can really only conceive one child every 9 months (yes multiples are possible but remember we are talking about statistical norms, not exceptions), whereas men could theoretically impregnate a different woman every day (or more!) and can conceive hundreds of children . Given the scale of the number of children men can conceive versus the number of children women can conceive, it seems asinine to place the burden of regulating reproduction on women.
Interesting. I don't know anyone who has had trouble with a reversal, granted i don't know many that have had it done, but i think that's probably because many think of it as permanent, even if that's not strictly 100% true 100% of the time. I also know many woman who have had severe fertility issues that have been linked to possible long term birth control side effects. I don't see why that should only be an acceptable outcome for women, men should have a stake in birth control before the fact as well as the possible health repercussions. Granted i also believe the entire birth control situation needs an overhaul but that's another thing entirely.
@batmama31 and @professormama The article had some issues but the point of making it more of a man's responsibility long before the fact makes a lot of sense. Looking at it more equally in terms of the act and what that means i think would result in better viewpoint in the sense of responsibility in the event that a wanted or unwanted pregnancy occurs.
@sheknows6 i really like that analogy, i think it sums it up really well. I don't necessarily agree that it should be used as a method of bc, only that there really should be a more reliable male option. And that maybe we should look at it that way instead of as a woman's burden. And consequent fault when it doesn't work.
@happymoni21 That makes a lot of sense too. Given the numbers it doesn't make sense that we are looking at it this way.
this is my backup acct. prevously helloblueeyes
Me:32 DH:33 Married:04/2012 DD:07/2014 BFP 8/14/2018 #2 due 4/18/2019
Along these same lines, I feel there should at least be a hormonal male birth control option (I read about the start of trials for one in Japan or somewhere). My husband has said he would totally go on birth control to do his part at responsible family planning. Unfortunately not all men are that reasonable.
@professormama I feel like risks and difficulties of birth control (and conception) are *so normalized*, that men mostly don’t view it in the same category as a vasectomy. They have every right to feel protective of their parts, but the risk doesn’t feel the same to them as the ones we take, nor is it treated the same by society. A lot of popular culture either portrays a vasectomy as a guy going above and beyond, or as something a guy gets henpecked into, rather than a good, standard option.
Even DH, who is generally very equality-minded and considerate, had a knee jerk reaction of ‘but that’s a surgery/a big deal!’ when I suggested we look into vasectomy after we decide we’re done. It’s like.. I’ve had years of bcp (risk), IUD insertion/removal (risk), a d&c (risk), and uterine surgery (hella risk), along with invasive and painful imaging procedures while TTC. He’s open to the procedure, but it took a little bit of work to get him to see my point.
We just use condoms (and if we really don’t want a pregnancy yet spermaicide) and that’s on both of us. No hormones changed.
Once we are really finished with our own kids he will probably get a vasectomy, but I refuse to alter my hormones when there is a super benign option that works great, not to mention it takes a long time of trying really hard for us to conceive in the first place, so chances are slim either way.
the tone I got from the mormon mom's blog post was similar to jonathan swift's "a modest proposal." extreme? yes. was her message effective? it totally convinced me.
**Disclaimer** this is NOT my opinion but with the discussion of vasectomy I thought I’d share the crazy of my MIL and her mother. They don’t think a husband should get one because “what if the wife dies or they get a divorce and he wants to have a child with his next wife.” So basically they are going into the assumption that my marriage won’t last (which is extremely upsetting to me) Not to mention what if the wife wants to have more kids with a second husband?
Personally I believe the decision of birth control wether permanent or not is a joint decision between spouses
I'm honestly not sure what we will do after this little one comes. Originally we had planned on my husband having a vasectomy, but now I'm not sure I want to be absolutely done. I also had bad experiences with my IUD, and birth control pills don't work well for me. We got pregnant with our son while using condoms, so just relying on those might be pushing our luck (or so my DH would probably think).
All I know is that I'm not doing an IUD again (my last one ended up partially attached to my uterine wall, and removing it was almost as bad as labor although much shorter...).
I had the implant after DD, we were sure that we wanted more but also very sure we didn't want them anytime soon. It was effective but freaking awful and I will not do that again. I have heard too many horror stores regarding IUDs to ever realistically consider it. We did use VCF with no issues and no accidental pregnancies after the implant but before TTC. While i am pretty sure we are done, i'm not 100% so i don't know what we do after this one. We definitely need a better male option for birth control though because frankly i don't ever want to be on hormonal BC ever again.
this is my backup acct. prevously helloblueeyes
Me:32 DH:33 Married:04/2012 DD:07/2014 BFP 8/14/2018 #2 due 4/18/2019
Such an interesting topic that I just have to chime in! Let me just say that first, I am ALL for guys getting vasectomies. I agree that I do not think it should be only the woman's responsibility, and that we do take great risk using hormonal birth control and other such things. Here's my experience, though: I met my DH after he'd had 5 kids and had a vasectomy about 15 years ago. I know he doesn't regret it one bit, and I wasn't upset that he'd had it. However, once we met with the urologist and my DH had the battery of tests and we talked to her at great length about the process - and cost - we decided to just go straight to IVF. Even though it's more taxing on me (and more expensive), the chances of his reversal working were maybe 60%, and that was only IF they had cut the vas deferens (I think that's the part but am not sure) at a certain spot in his testes, and they wouldn't actually know that until he was already in surgery. It also wasn't covered under my insurance, and a reversal is actually a lot more expensive than I originally thought. I think they said close to 8-10k. So, after weighing all the options, I decided I didn't want to waste time with him getting a reversal, trying to conceive naturally for 6+ months, and then maybe having to do IVF anyway (IUI probably wouldn't work at that point, either, because there was no guarantee he'd be producing swimmers even after 6 months!).
I totally get it that others wouldn't agree or wouldn't do the same thing, and I know everything I've done was physically on me, but I just decided that was what was best for our situation. A reversal is not as cut and dry as you think.
I am also glad, though, that after we have the baby, my husband still has a vasectomy because it is a WONDERFUL birth control method! And I never have to be on birth control again
I will add, though, that at least they had to take a needle to his balls to get his sperm! I thought that was pretty terrifiic, and he was more than happy to oblige
@rennie1108 as long as you guys had a conversation and came to a compromise that worked for both of you, I think that's all that matters. And since everyone's compromise might look different, it's definitely important to develop more ways for men to be culpable for pregnancies and for men to take advantage of the current methods of birth control that they have power over as well.
This definitely has gotten into an interesting tangent - and I’m generally impressed by the friendliness about what can be such a controversial topic!
I would also like to weigh in that we shouldn’t consider vasectomy as a “reversable” method. No personal experience but just lots of reading on the matter and it seems to be a little blasé to categorize it that way. That said, it’s still a much less invasive procedure than a woman getting a tubal ligation! And sounds better than the mess that happened with that device called Essure... My partner is willing to get a vasectomy when we’re “done” because, yes, the burden of our birth control has been on my body for years.
Still, to follow up on this, my unpopular opinion is that it’s a right or an assumption that everyone should be able to have biological children. Adopting is great, fostering is an option, even caring for / mentoring and loving children of a family that isn’t technically yours is another way to be involved with kids. Honestly the amount of resources that go into fertility treatments bothers me when our society has so many other problems. So, I’d say that if you’re pretty sure you don’t want kids, get sterilized. If you want to do more with children later, there are plenty of options.
I don’t want to attack anyone who has gone that route; nor am I in for full eugenics, but I do think that our narratives (at least what I think I have seen in the US) should be expanded about ways to love an care for the next generation that aren’t about the need for personal genetic copies.
Also, I will acknowledge here that I didn’t struggle with trying to conceive, but I didn’t have a period for years. During that time I assumed infertility was my fate and that’s some of what led to my thinking on this. And my husband is adopted and he and his parents are amazing.
final comment: fruit in salad is one of my favorite things. Just break down the barrier between “fruit salad” and “salad” already!
@mesweettea I know a couple people who have successfully had it reversed without issue. I guess that colors my opinion on seeing it as totally permanent. I get that it’s not always reversible but my “experience” is that it’s absolutely possible and not a “one in a million” type of possible. I just don’t think the term permanent is entirely correct.
this is my backup acct. prevously helloblueeyes
Me:32 DH:33 Married:04/2012 DD:07/2014 BFP 8/14/2018 #2 due 4/18/2019
@thatbaintforbetty Yeah, it does seem like it’s generally reversable, (not to mention all the cases where it reverses itself! I think that happens more when it’s the knot in the tube and not a full slice, but still, I think the cauterized tubes do occasionally reattach) and I’m generally for more men getting them. I mostly mean to say, I think it would be misleading to categorize it with an IUD (where the modern ones so so rarely might have a complication that leads to full sterility).
Finally caught up on this - I remember reading or hearing that they were experimenting with male hormonal birth control and that it did poorly in trials because the men were not pleased with the mood swings...LOL. I think that if the couple agrees that they are done having children and want a more permanent birth control option and it comes down to it, the man should totally volunteer to have the vasectomy. I am definitely not in favor of forcing anyone to be sterilized if they aren't comfortable, though, reversible or not. Personally I don't think I'd ever want to get my tubes tied, just in case I ever changed my mind and wanted more kids.
And yes it's totally unfair that women get blamed for unplanned pregnancy - these darn men need to take some responsibility, not that I'd trust H for a damn second to figure it all out, but I'd like him to FEEL responsible!
@Piccola1988 I was just going to comment about the male birth control studies. If I recall the side effects were actually less that then our female version but it was still dismissed as a birth control method. Some conspiracy theories says it’s because men control the big pharmaceuticals lol
Also I wanted to add that a couple at our church got a vasectomy after two children and ended up with a surprise third child last year, because his vasectomy reversed itself
@mesweettea I understand that you assumed you were infertile but that's not the same as going through tests and having Drs tell you that. And/or passing over the age of 35, 40, etc and realizing that it's too late. Plus now you have bio kids? I agree that it doesn't need to be an automatic assumption that having bio kids is the most important way to have children in your life. But I can see why it's an UO for you to say so as it definitely raises my hackles! Personally for us, creating a bio child w/IUI was cheaper and easier than the options of adoption or fostering. Plus the headache of helping out with others' children, honestly most moms I know are pretty sensitive to/selective of others interacting with their kids.
I do agree that the narrative needs to change, though. I know a number of folks who chose not to have children and/or pursue infertility treatment and regret it now that they're in their 40s and 50s. I wish there was a way that there was less pressure on the biological aspects or, like you've said, more open ways for them to interact in the lives of children that are not biologically related to them. Keep in mind that those kinds of avenues have long been closed to the LGBT community, and that infertility treatments are a new way to open the door to those interactions with the future of humanity.
Not to be too long winded.
I have no original ideas of my own this week, so no UO for me.
@mesweettea I agree with you in theory. Particularly, because I was adopted as a newborn, as was my younger brother. I think there is a lot of ignorance about adoption, which is unfortunate, but I will add it’s not at all an easy or affordable process. I was adopted in the late 70’s before international adoptions took off and provided additional opportunities, but at the time my parents waited 9 years before I was adopted. That’s how long it took to be placed with a healthy newborn (this was pre-open adoption when birth parents could choose and instead it was all done through an agency). So I totally agree that it makes me furious when someone says they just want their “own” children, I also very much sympathize that adoption is also an expensive, long, process without any guarantees.
I didn't mean to bring this up and semi-ghost on it! I've been following and am intrigued by everyone's thoughts, I just don't think there's much purpose adding on to an initial defense of a UO (it's supposed to be unpopular!) and I didn't have much else to add until now.
I've always felt an intense drive to be a mother, and I never cared for means. I always assumed I'd adopt (because hey, if I need to be a mother and there's someone out there who needs a mother, makes sense), and I actually met my husband a few months before I was planning to start the adoption process independently. I only told him about that a year into dating, when I had an emotional breakdown about not having kids yet, and his response at the time was "Babe, if you want to adopt a baby, we'll adopt a baby."
Two and a half years later, his tune changed. We'd lost our first baby to a MMC, and I didn't know if I could handle being pregnant again. I wanted to start the adoption process, which I knew would be long and grueling. My husband refused. He did mature a lot over the course of our relationship, and I guess along the way, he realized how much having biological children matters to him. I think a lot of it is wanting to see himself in the next generation - he's got some mortality issues - and even though I tried to say you don't need to share genes to pass on your values and mannerisms and characteristics, for him, that matters. There were months of pleading, crying conversations on my part where my husband repeatedly, calmly, and rationally explained his thinking and stood his ground. He's someone who usually lets me have my way when the stakes are high (that sounds like a terrible way to put that, but I don't know how else to say it), and the fact that he refused to cave made me respect him and showed how much it really, truly means to him.
So that was all a REALLY long way of saying while I don't necessarily disagree with @mesweettea myself, I learned this is an especially big area where I can't expect anyone else to share my views. And this all probably contributes to my anti-permanent (or seemingly permanent) birth control stance: changing our minds about being done would be that much harder since my husband doesn't want to adopt.
@sheepshepherdess I figured sharing some of my background/experiences was important, partially because it is impossible for me to know what it's like to try to conceive and fail. Or feel like I was denied the option to even make a choice about it (being in a same sex couple as one example of this). Maybe there'd be something in that process which sounds very grueling that would change my opinion. I guess similar to you choosing IUI as "easier/cheaper" than adoption, we actually just started with bio because it seemed like something that we should try specifically while younger. And somewhat to my surprise, it seems to be working so far.
My main point was maybe more to your second paragraph - in part reducing the stigma of deciding not to have kids (definitely a thing), and also another being finding ways as an entire society to get back to village-raising-a-child and away from the nuclear family. That sounds a bit far fetched even as I think/write it, but I'm just thinking about how some of my parents close friends were actually quite influential in my upbringing and having more adult role models seems to be generally a boon.
@catherineclaire78 I didn't mean to make adoption sound easy - it sure seems complicated and the upfront price tag is pretty scary... although if a pregnancy has complications, the math for time off work and stress could maybe even it out.
@ashtuesday That sounds like a tough series of conversations that you've been through and a testament to your relationship for working through your differences! I know that lots of people have strong biological feelings and maybe there's no hope to change them... so I guess that's why I figure this might be a minority, if not downright controversial opinion. My father literally planned to start another family in order to get biological grandchildren and I'm sure that he's going to be weird about it when we try to adopt.
Re: UO 10/18
do that here. We don’t spank or hit but time outs so seem to work for my girls. Also taking away screen time works wonders here. It’s sad about much they value that!
My UO is that I hate trigger warnings. I think they are so so SO out of control. *TW* I had a bloody nose this morning *end TW*. I roll my eyes at 90% of trigger warnings I see people post on the internet. Not specific to this group at all, just the internet in general!
Edited to tag OP: @mrstmoose
Never once did I say that I was judging someone, but I PERSONALLY think it's ridiculous. There's also a reason why it's called Unpopular Opinions, not everyone is going to have the same opinion. If that's how you choose to spend your money, knock yourself out. No one else thought I was personally attacking them, so I'm not sure why you've decided that I'm personally attacking you.
I'd be cautious about describing a vasectomy as reversible. They can be reversed, but they are not a universally reversible form of BC. I personally know a couple where the guy got snipped. They later decided they wanted more kids (already had several) and despite traveling half way across the country to the best doctor in the country, they were unable to reverse it. It was very difficult for them, and they ultimately had a long, difficult, painful and expensive process to adopt more children.
The Mayo Clinic says both that "almost all vasectomies can be reversed" and "success rates ... will range from about 40 percent to over 90 percent."
That article viewpoint seems outrageous and irresponsible to me. One of the things that affects the likelihood of a successful vasectomy reversal is the length of time between vasectomy and reversal with the likelihood of success decreasing the longer it's been. If a 15-year-old boy got snipped, it could be 10, 15, 20 years before he'd want to have children, and his reversal chances of success will keep going down.
so while there may be one-off cases where a vasectomy isn't reversible, or successful, I think asking a man to at least consider the idea of doing his part to manage reproduction and overpopulation, and just take some fucking responsibility isn't the worst idea.
I think if public policy makers started talking about implementing something like mandated vasectomies for teenage boys, society would do more to hold teenage boys accountable in the first place.
Hormonal birth control was hard on my body, and while I may do it again as a short-term option, there's no way I'm going to remain on it for the next 10 years until I hit menopause (assuming I hit it mid-40s, which is early). I think my husband will probably go vasectomy at some point after #2, although we haven't decided for sure and ultimately that decision is up to him. But again, we are both pretty open to and happy with adoption, in the event that we should ever decide that we want another child.
I totally agree that the burden of birth control should not fall solely on a woman's shoulders- why are we figuratively strapping on bullet proof vests instead of unloading the weapons to begin with?
However, vasectomies are not guaranteed reversible and should never be used as reversible method of birth control. It is very much a permanent sterilization method.
DD born: 3/31/19
prevously helloblueeyes
Me:32 DH:33 Married:04/2012 DD:07/2014
BFP 8/14/2018 #2 due 4/18/2019
Even DH, who is generally very equality-minded and considerate, had a knee jerk reaction of ‘but that’s a surgery/a big deal!’ when I suggested we look into vasectomy after we decide we’re done. It’s like.. I’ve had years of bcp (risk), IUD insertion/removal (risk), a d&c (risk), and uterine surgery (hella risk), along with invasive and painful imaging procedures while TTC. He’s open to the procedure, but it took a little bit of work to get him to see my point.
us. No hormones changed.
Once we are really finished with our own kids he will probably get a vasectomy, but I refuse to alter my hormones when there is a super benign option that works great, not
to mention it takes a long time of trying really hard for us to conceive in the first place, so chances are slim either way.
Personally I believe the decision of birth control wether permanent or not is a joint decision between spouses
All I know is that I'm not doing an IUD again (my last one ended up partially attached to my uterine wall, and removing it was almost as bad as labor although much shorter...).
prevously helloblueeyes
Me:32 DH:33 Married:04/2012 DD:07/2014
BFP 8/14/2018 #2 due 4/18/2019
I totally get it that others wouldn't agree or wouldn't do the same thing, and I know everything I've done was physically on me, but I just decided that was what was best for our situation. A reversal is not as cut and dry as you think.
I am also glad, though, that after we have the baby, my husband still has a vasectomy because it is a WONDERFUL birth control method! And I never have to be on birth control again
I would also like to weigh in that we shouldn’t consider vasectomy as a “reversable” method. No personal experience but just lots of reading on the matter and it seems to be a little blasé to categorize it that way. That said, it’s still a much less invasive procedure than a woman getting a tubal ligation! And sounds better than the mess that happened with that device called Essure... My partner is willing to get a vasectomy when we’re “done” because, yes, the burden of our birth control has been on my body for years.
Still, to follow up on this, my unpopular opinion is that it’s a right or an assumption that everyone should be able to have biological children. Adopting is great, fostering is an option, even caring for / mentoring and loving children of a family that isn’t technically yours is another way to be involved with kids. Honestly the amount of resources that go into fertility treatments bothers me when our society has so many other problems. So, I’d say that if you’re pretty sure you don’t want kids, get sterilized. If you want to do more with children later, there are plenty of options.
I don’t want to attack anyone who has gone that route; nor am I in for full eugenics, but I do think that our narratives (at least what I think I have seen in the US) should be expanded about ways to love an care for the next generation that aren’t about the need for personal genetic copies.
Also, I will acknowledge here that I didn’t struggle with trying to conceive, but I didn’t have a period for years. During that time I assumed infertility was my fate and that’s some of what led to my thinking on this. And my husband is adopted and he and his parents are amazing.
final comment: fruit in salad is one of my favorite things. Just break down the barrier between “fruit salad” and “salad” already!
prevously helloblueeyes
Me:32 DH:33 Married:04/2012 DD:07/2014
BFP 8/14/2018 #2 due 4/18/2019
And yes it's totally unfair that women get blamed for unplanned pregnancy - these darn men need to take some responsibility, not that I'd trust H for a damn second to figure it all out, but I'd like him to FEEL responsible!
Also I wanted to add that a couple at our church got a vasectomy after two children and ended up with a surprise third child last year, because his vasectomy reversed itself
I do agree that the narrative needs to change, though. I know a number of folks who chose not to have children and/or pursue infertility treatment and regret it now that they're in their 40s and 50s. I wish there was a way that there was less pressure on the biological aspects or, like you've said, more open ways for them to interact in the lives of children that are not biologically related to them. Keep in mind that those kinds of avenues have long been closed to the LGBT community, and that infertility treatments are a new way to open the door to those interactions with the future of humanity.
Not to be too long winded.
I have no original ideas of my own this week, so no UO for me.
I've always felt an intense drive to be a mother, and I never cared for means. I always assumed I'd adopt (because hey, if I need to be a mother and there's someone out there who needs a mother, makes sense), and I actually met my husband a few months before I was planning to start the adoption process independently. I only told him about that a year into dating, when I had an emotional breakdown about not having kids yet, and his response at the time was "Babe, if you want to adopt a baby, we'll adopt a baby."
Two and a half years later, his tune changed. We'd lost our first baby to a MMC, and I didn't know if I could handle being pregnant again. I wanted to start the adoption process, which I knew would be long and grueling. My husband refused. He did mature a lot over the course of our relationship, and I guess along the way, he realized how much having biological children matters to him. I think a lot of it is wanting to see himself in the next generation - he's got some mortality issues - and even though I tried to say you don't need to share genes to pass on your values and mannerisms and characteristics, for him, that matters. There were months of pleading, crying conversations on my part where my husband repeatedly, calmly, and rationally explained his thinking and stood his ground. He's someone who usually lets me have my way when the stakes are high (that sounds like a terrible way to put that, but I don't know how else to say it), and the fact that he refused to cave made me respect him and showed how much it really, truly means to him.
So that was all a REALLY long way of saying while I don't necessarily disagree with @mesweettea myself, I learned this is an especially big area where I can't expect anyone else to share my views. And this all probably contributes to my anti-permanent (or seemingly permanent) birth control stance: changing our minds about being done would be that much harder since my husband doesn't want to adopt.
I guess similar to you choosing IUI as "easier/cheaper" than adoption, we actually just started with bio because it seemed like something that we should try specifically while younger. And somewhat to my surprise, it seems to be working so far.
My main point was maybe more to your second paragraph - in part reducing the stigma of deciding not to have kids (definitely a thing), and also another being finding ways as an entire society to get back to village-raising-a-child and away from the nuclear family. That sounds a bit far fetched even as I think/write it, but I'm just thinking about how some of my parents close friends were actually quite influential in my upbringing and having more adult role models seems to be generally a boon.
@catherineclaire78 I didn't mean to make adoption sound easy - it sure seems complicated and the upfront price tag is pretty scary... although if a pregnancy has complications, the math for time off work and stress could maybe even it out.
@ashtuesday That sounds like a tough series of conversations that you've been through and a testament to your relationship for working through your differences! I know that lots of people have strong biological feelings and maybe there's no hope to change them... so I guess that's why I figure this might be a minority, if not downright controversial opinion. My father literally planned to start another family in order to get biological grandchildren and I'm sure that he's going to be weird about it when we try to adopt.