I just finished the series tonight. I just looked up the “owl theory” and am shocked we didn’t hear about any feathers at the crime scene. That is such an interesting theory. Would he not have heard her screaming if an owl attacked her? I feel like I would have lost it if a huge bird attacked my head at night. Maybe it dazed and confused her? (If the theory is true)
Just a couple other things I wondered:
I may have looked up the temperature of Durham, NC on Dec. 9, 2001 online. It was around 42 degrees that night. Does anyone else find it odd that Michael would go and sit outside by the pool in shorts and a t-shirt for an extended period of time? Enough time for her blood to start to dry?
In the last episode the sister in her speech mentioned Kathleen was also strangled. Did we hear that throughout the trial or did I just miss it?
@Jens_Hoes I completely agree it didn’t make much sense for them to drive Elizabeth’s body 1200 miles to be examined by their medical examiner. Having an unbiased party do it would make more sense to me.
@nanner26 I read in a few articles online that there was evidence that she had been asphyxiated, but there weren't many details. It was never mentioned in the series/trial unless I missed it. About the temperature thing, I thought the same thing at first, but my dad never gets cold and could sit outside in that temperature in shorts and a t-shirt without getting cold at all, so maybe Michael is like that and was just hanging out outside after his wife went inside?
@nanner26 I don't find it odd that he would be sitting outside in that temperature. Maybe he was warmed somewhat because they had been drinking. And like @offtoneverland said, some people just aren't bothered by the cold. Kathleen was wearing sweatpants, which is probably what I would feel comfortable in on a night like that.
I also thought it was inappropriate who examined Elizabeth's body. It should have been someone else who wasn't involved with the case or with the city of Durham at all. It was definitely biased.
@offtoneverland@katethemom I agree. Wine can really “warm” you up too and if he was tipsy/drunk he could not care too much about the cold. Could his level of intoxication also go to his response on the 911 call? He wasn’t exactly thinking straight? Do we know if the police tested his alcohol level? That seems like something they should have done anyways.
At 42 degrees?? We were camping last night it was a low of 47. My husband is furnace and was drinking last night. We're snuggled under blankets with both dogs, sweatshirts pants socks, and we were absolutely freezing our asses off. No way he was casually drinking in shorts and tshirt at 42 degrees for that long. That's not even taking into account wind
@galactickates My H isn’t bothered by the cold at all. This last winter he was walking around when the temp was -3F and he wasn’t even chilled. He even had a guy approach him and mention how he was the only one out who was not bundled up. I was completely frozen and he was walking around in a t-shirt. Wyoming winters are brutal and I think I saw him wear a coat once this past winter.
Really enjoyed reading this thread! And I loved the Staircase, found it totally intriguing (and the perfect thing to binge-watch when first trimester fatigue had me down). I'm not sure whether I think he's guilty or not, though I lean toward innocent. Regardless of his innocence or guilt, I 100% do not believe there was enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. I was honestly shocked when the jury came back with that verdict. And neither the 9-1-1 call nor his joking in the months (and years) after her death struck me as odd. I can't even imagine the shock and confusion and desperation I would feel if I stumbled upon someone I loved lying bloodied at the bottom of the stairs like that -- I highly doubt I would make much sense or be able to respond to the 9-1-1 operator's questions in a coherent way. And I too would probably assume it was a fall down the stairs -- if you're the only ones there, and the last time you saw the other person they were heading inside to go upstairs to bed, I'm not sure what other conclusion you would draw after stumbling upon that scene, blood or not. And the jokes, I just saw them as a coping mechanism for a family who was dealing with an ongoing tragedy (the initial tragedy of losing their wife and mother, especially so suddenly, and then having to deal with the investigation and pre-trial and trial dragging on and on, and also causing a rift between Kathleen's sisters and daughter and Michael and the other kids). Plus, I personally have a pretty dark sense of humor, especially when I'm under stress or nervous about something (it's definitely a coping mechanism for me), so while I can see how the joking might strike some as being in poor taste or insensitive or cold, it just didn't hit me that way. And I do find the owl theory interesting and plausible. My takeaway from the series: Nobody can ever know for sure exactly what happened that night, but as far as the legal case, it seemed like there was a lot of room for reasonable doubt (at least from what the documentary showed). From discrepancies in police photos (without time stamps), to an expert witness misleading the jury about crucial forensic evidence, to having no evidence to support motive (was there any evidence presented to support their theory that Kathleen found something on the computer that night, which is what they contend led to the murder?), to the questionable decision to have the exhumed body examined by their own medical examiner vs. an independent third party, coupled with her unusual language in the report, ***spoiler alert if you haven't made it to episode 7*** to the supposed murder weapon being found and there being no evidence of it having been used as a weapon... I just don't see how a jury could convict beyond a reasonable doubt.
I think if the prosecution would have processed the scene correctly there would be so much more evidence to prove him guilty. I know head wounds bleed quite a bit and especially when drinking alcohol but there was just so much blood in that staircase for a fall. And the owl theory is just crazy. If I got attacked by an owl outside my door, my entire neighborhood would hear me, so how did her husband who was sitting at the pool not here her scream? Also, if it didn't attack her outside there would have been blood from the door to the stairway. The amount of blood in that staircase just doesn't add up to someone who 'fell down the stairs'. If there was evidence of pine needles etc. in her hands that leads me to believe her husband probably assaulted her outside at some point and brought her inside. I don't think she would have been okay with her husband having sex with other men. Personally, I don't believe she knew about it. Or she had found out that night and thats why he killed her.
Also the way he carries himself is so suspicious to me. If my H tragically died in a staircase in our house there is NO WAY I could just go back home and continue life as normal and start making jokes about it. Especially is I was accused of doing it! I know they probably wanted to leave the blood in the staircase for the trial but my word put a tarp or blanket up or something. How could he walk by and see that everyday and be okay with it?!
The other lady in Germany who died the same way is also another big red flag. Two ladies in his life died and was found at the bottom of the stairs with several head lacerations and it was accident? I don't think so.
So my DVR reminded me about the comedy Trial and Error - the first season is based on The Staircase and has a bunch of funny people in it. Fair warning I haven’t actually watched it, but I imagine it’s good. Second season started tonight. Not sure if it will be a continuation or a new thing. It’s a 30 minute show on one of the main networks (abc, cbs, etc.).
Edit: Athens to The (how did I even make that typo?)
If anyone is interested two criminal profilers are breaking down the staircase . The podcast is Real Crime profile and i'm seriously enjoying this. They are doing the 911 call. If anyone else wants to listen then we can discuss.
Re: The Staircase - True Crime Discussion
I just finished the series tonight. I just looked up the “owl theory” and am shocked we didn’t hear about any feathers at the crime scene. That is such an interesting theory. Would he not have heard her screaming if an owl attacked her? I feel like I would have lost it if a huge bird attacked my head at night. Maybe it dazed and confused her? (If the theory is true)
Just a couple other things I wondered:
I may have looked up the temperature of Durham, NC on Dec. 9, 2001 online. It was around 42 degrees that night. Does anyone else find it odd that Michael would go and sit outside by the pool in shorts and a t-shirt for an extended period of time? Enough time for her blood to start to dry?
In the last episode the sister in her speech mentioned Kathleen was also strangled. Did we hear that throughout the trial or did I just miss it?
@Jens_Hoes I completely agree it didn’t make much sense for them to drive Elizabeth’s body 1200 miles to be examined by their medical examiner. Having an unbiased party do it would make more sense to me.
About the temperature thing, I thought the same thing at first, but my dad never gets cold and could sit outside in that temperature in shorts and a t-shirt without getting cold at all, so maybe Michael is like that and was just hanging out outside after his wife went inside?
DD1: 8/2014
TTC #2: 6/2017
BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
DD2: 10/2018
I also thought it was inappropriate who examined Elizabeth's body. It should have been someone else who wasn't involved with the case or with the city of Durham at all. It was definitely biased.
I think if the prosecution would have processed the scene correctly there would be so much more evidence to prove him guilty. I know head wounds bleed quite a bit and especially when drinking alcohol but there was just so much blood in that staircase for a fall. And the owl theory is just crazy. If I got attacked by an owl outside my door, my entire neighborhood would hear me, so how did her husband who was sitting at the pool not here her scream? Also, if it didn't attack her outside there would have been blood from the door to the stairway. The amount of blood in that staircase just doesn't add up to someone who 'fell down the stairs'. If there was evidence of pine needles etc. in her hands that leads me to believe her husband probably assaulted her outside at some point and brought her inside. I don't think she would have been okay with her husband having sex with other men. Personally, I don't believe she knew about it. Or she had found out that night and thats why he killed her.
Also the way he carries himself is so suspicious to me. If my H tragically died in a staircase in our house there is NO WAY I could just go back home and continue life as normal and start making jokes about it. Especially is I was accused of doing it! I know they probably wanted to leave the blood in the staircase for the trial but my word put a tarp or blanket up or something. How could he walk by and see that everyday and be okay with it?!
The other lady in Germany who died the same way is also another big red flag. Two ladies in his life died and was found at the bottom of the stairs with several head lacerations and it was accident? I don't think so.
He's a cold blooded murderer.
DS1: May 2016
DS2: Jan 2019
Baby #3 EDD: 6/18/24
Edit: Athens to The (how did I even make that typo?)