But if he was with his wife who he claims is alive why wouldn't he just say "I don't know, I wasn't there when she fell." Instead that pause speaks volumes.
No one has answered my question about if there was a blood trail going from outside to inside or if the alleged owl attack happened inside or outside. Does anyone know?
I get what you're saying, but that's not enough to convince me. I can't imagine that I would be focused or coherent at all on a 911 call if I was looking at my SO in that condition.
There were a few spots of blood found outside the home that supports the theory that she was attacked by an owl before entering the house. I think the theory is that the owl attacked her outside, and she attempted to make it up the stairs to clean herself up. She had a bit of hair and an owl feather in one of her hands that would be consistent with her trying to dislodge an owl from her head. I believe there was also a footprint of hers found that may have shown that she began stepping in her own blood before walking up the stairs, but I'm not sure about that. Does anyone else know?
If he was with his wife when he called 911 and is able to tell the operator that she is still alive, when asked how many stairs he should have been able to look up and count instead of that long pause. Or say just a second let me count. Or what should I do to keep her alive. None of that happened in that call
^^^^^^^^ this is acting guilty to me
I'd be pissed as hell if they asked me how many steps they fell down. Who gives AF how many stairs! Are they going to come slower because they fell down two stairs compared to if they fell down 15 stairs. And for that matter, if I wasn't even there to see them fall, how would I know how many they fell down? So, yeah, that question actually really bothered me. I think it was waste of question and she should have focused on trying to get more useful information out of him, or get him to help her the best he could. He shouldn't have been wasting time thinking about how many stairs she fell down and counting them. Oh the answer I would have had for her.
No one has answered my question about if there was a blood trail going from outside to inside or if the alleged owl attack happened inside or outside. Does anyone know?
"Advocates of this theory assert that other evidence supports it, namely: the scalp wounds were tri-lobed and paired, consistent with marks left by talons, the feathers are similar to those on owl feet, cedar needles were found on her hands and body indicating Kathleen had fallen over outside shortly before entering the house, that her blood had spattered up the staircase rather than down, that her footprints in her own blood indicated that she was already bleeding before she reached the foot of the stairs, and that two drops of her blood were found outside the house on the front walkway along with a finger smear on the front door consistent with her pushing the door shut. Advocates also note that owl attacks on people are common in the area, with one victim stating that the impact was similar to being hit in the head with a baseball bat."
ETA: Today was the first time I'd heard of the owl theory. But I don't see how she could have made it to the stairs before bleeding all over.
If he was with his wife when he called 911 and is able to tell the operator that she is still alive, when asked how many stairs he should have been able to look up and count instead of that long pause. Or say just a second let me count. Or what should I do to keep her alive. None of that happened in that call
^^^^^^^^ this is acting guilty to me
I'd be pissed as hell if they asked me how many steps they fell down. Who gives AF how many stairs! Are they going to come slower because they fell down two stairs compared to if they fell down 15 stairs. And for that matter, if I wasn't even there to see them fall, how would I know how many they fell down? So, yeah, that question actually really bothered me. I think it was waste of question and she should have focused on trying to get more useful information out of him, or get him to help her the best he could. He shouldn't have been wasting time thinking about how many stairs she fell down and counting them. Oh the answer I would have had for her.
But at least you would have had an answer..... I mean how did he even know she fell down the stairs? There was a lot of blood. Why didn't he say "something happened to my wife" the fact that he's putting a story together of her falling down the stairs is a little weird. I'm not sure that looking at that the blood that my first reaction would be "my wife fell down the stairs"
Honestly if anyone walked into that scene with all that blood your first reaction would be "she fell down the stairs" seriously. Really truly. That's the conclusion you would come too? I've seen people fall down stairs. I knew someone that fell down a flipping escalator and she didn't even have blood like that. Her body was black and blue but there wasn't massive blood and lacerations to her head.... it also didn't kill her
I think the question of how many stairs was an odd question that would have thrown me off too, and I probably would have said "I dont know, I wasn't here. I'm assuming she fell down the stairs." If you go back and listen, he was surprised by the question and hemmed and hawed and it sure as shit sounds like he had to walk over to the stairs to look. He definitely was not standing near her. And I think it was odd the 911 operater wasn't offering assistance or asking if he knew what to do to put pressure on the wounds or CPR, although he said she was breathing. The whole thing was super sketchy and he wasn't listening to her at all. What was he doing???
I have to add that I have no idea how I would react in that situation but I find his behavior odd AF.
Edited to add " " . I think that might clear up a little of my rambling.
If I found someone laying at the bottom of the stairs, I would assume they fell down them.
Even with a ton of blood? You wouldn't be sketched out at all? In your experience when people fall down the stairs there is also massive blood. He didn't tell the 911 operator that there was blood. I feel like if my husband or anyone I knew was covered in blood I would tell the operator that very significant detail.
"911 I think my husband may have fallen down the stairs, there is blood everywhere please send help"
Me too. His assumption isn't wrong but he doesn't say I think she fell down the stairs, he says she did fall down the stairs. That right there was off to me, but him ignoring the 911 operator and seemingly not staying near his wife is where most of my suspicion comes from.
If I found someone laying at the bottom of the stairs, I would assume they fell down them.
Even with a ton of blood? You wouldn't be sketched out at all? In your experience when people fall down the stairs there is also massive blood. He didn't tell the 911 operator that there was blood. I feel like if my husband or anyone I knew was covered in blood I would tell the operator that very significant detail.
"911 I think my husband may have fallen down the stairs, there is blood everywhere please send help"
**lurking like a creeper because @galactickates invited lurkers**
@galactickates That's a really good point that he didn't mention the blood. He didn't, right? That seems like a very pertinent detail for him to have left off. The 911 call is weird, but I can kind of understand him not answering the question about the stairs. What I don't understand is him just hanging up? That seems so super weird to me that he just hung up, but I guess we can't understand what people do under duress.
I can't decide if he's guilty or innocent. I'm very easily convinced, so I constantly switch my opinion while watching the show. His behavior throughout the documentary is definitely very weird. I can't imagine finding my husband in a pool of blood at the bottom of the stairs, then a few months later being able to talk about the gruesome crime scene while chatting away and making dinner. In the fourth or fifth episode, the whole family is sitting around the dinner table joking about how they're going to make masks of his face for Halloween. They were laughing and saying "If you don't give me candy, I'll shove you down the stairs!" Even though the family thinks he's innocent, I just can't imagine finding that humorous in any way after being accused of such a thing, and after having to walk in on that scene.
Regardless, it seems like the investigators royally effed up this case, especially with the quote that @SweetBriarBee shared. How did they not even mention those drops of blood outside, or the owl feathers or pine needles in her hands during the investigation? I guess maybe they did, but we didn't see it in the show. I'm not saying it was the owl, just saying it seems like pertinent evidence that was ignored, especially the blood outside. I don't remember that being mentioned in the show (yet, at least...I haven't finished it).
Question: Do they ever get back to his German friend who fell down the stairs and was exhumed from her grave for another autopsy? In the one episode that mentioned it, the person who did the autopsy said it definitely looked like murder because she had contusions on her head as well. But they also said she had had an aneurysm or something, which is what caused her to fall. I'm just confused as to what was the actually verdict of her death.
Hey @offtoneverland!!! you're definitely welcome to join our discussion. I'm spiraling hard, the more information the better.
I seriously need to finish this series, so far in what I've seen nothing screams innocent to me.
I've been listening to season 2 of In the dark- a podcast about a man who has gone to trial 6 times for a crime I don't believe he committed. Adnon from serial... I totally believe he is innocent. I really hate the idea of innocent people going to jail for a crime they didn't commit. It makes me sick thinking about it. I might not sound like it, but I wish Michael Peterson was innocent. I think it's awful to lose your wife then be accused of murdering her. I mean really? That has to be so incredibly painful.... if you are innocent. I just don't believe he is. From what I have seen so far he seems like a sociopath.
@galactickates The two things hanging me up are: 1) no skull/brain contusions, just surface cuts on the head and 2) no blood spatter from him swinging a weapon. I just can't figure out how he would have injured her like that purposefully. But anything is possible. But it's so coincidental that his German friend apparently also had cuts on her head from her fall. People who fall down stairs usually get bruises and broken bones, but not cuts on their head. So that seems super suspicious.
@galactickates you think Adnon is innocent? I flip flopped through Serial like a fish out of water and still can't decide. So many fishy things. What makes you so sure he is innocent?
@molosmiles because I think Don did it. I listened to every episode of undisclosed and truth & justice. I mean Don had two time cards for the day Hae disappeared. His step mom and mom were both managers at lenscrafters.... I think Jay completely lied. The officers guided his confession. Jay's story kept changing. I 100% think don did it. Did you listen to any of the follow up podcasts?
Eta - I totally flip flopped during serial too. A lot of stuff came out after that podcast which solidified my opinion
@galactickates I only listened to serial . Sounds like I have some more listening to do! And Jay was definitely lying. I didn't believe anything he said.
So... i'm going to keep investigating this. I had a long chat with my bff about the case and it gave me a lot to think about. She mentioned there were no foot prints found, not even Kathleen's. How is that possible when her feet were covered in blood?? Can anyone confirm that?
@molosmiles undisclosed was a little dry sometimes but I powered through it. I really enjoyed truth and justice with Bob Ruff episodes. Undisclosed brought a lot of facts to light though
He did say in one of the interviews that he went to get towels to put under her head after calling 911. I would imagine he might have been frantically looking for some, or perhaps anything to help stop the bleeding, while making the call. Maybe he disconnected so he could tend to her better.
I am just not convinced that the 911 call is all that suspicious. He sounds out of sorts and frantic, which is exactly how I think anyone would sound in that situation. And I agree with @SweetBriarBee. Falling down the stairs is really the only logical thing you could assume happened if someone is lying at the bottom of a staircase bleeding out with nothing else around them.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone read or watched much about the JonBenet Ramsey case? I always found that one to be very interesting.
@galactickates I’m listening to In the Dark as well. I think Curtis is innocent, or, at least, here’s nowhere near enough evidence to convict him. I actually grew up about 30 minutes from Winona.
@katethemom I find the JonBenet Ramsey case fascinating. I seriously have no idea who committed that crime. I tried to read a book about the case called “Perfect Murder Perfect Town,” but I had to stop because it kept going into detail on JonBenet’s body, and it was just too much for me.
Married: May 2012 DS1: May 2016 DS2: Jan 2019 Baby #3 EDD: 6/18/24
@saltedcaramel518 I think the same exact thing about Curtis. The last episode drops tomorrow. I'm pretty disgusted with Doug Evans.
The theory of Jon benet that makes most sense to me, is her brother killed her and her parents covered it up. I think he killed her over the stupid pineapple. They said that the ransom note was in Patsy's handwriting. There was an episode on the podcast real crime profile I thought was interesting. I think they did a tv series on it too but I haven't seen it yet
@saltedcaramel518 I read that one. It was hard to read the descriptions about the body, but I thought book was very well written and thorough. I actually just ordered it on Amazon to read again.
@galactickates I reached the same conclusion that the brother did it. At first I thought Patsy, but I think she truly loved her children and wouldn't have done something that extreme. I think she was willing to cover it up, because she didn't want to lose her only other child. There were a few different TV specials that came out a couple years ago that I watched, but I can't recall what they were. I'd be interested in listening to the podcast, too.
@katethemom I, too, got the impression that he was trying to rush the operator so she could hang up with him and call for an ambulance. If he knew that an ambulance was on the way, but that she wanted to keep him on the phone, I wonder how he would have responded differently.
I'm in the middle of watching an episode right now. DH is really into this, too, so that's fun. He thinks guilty, I think innocent. I want to add, I remember when my father died when I was 11 from cancer, we DID still joke around and laugh and seem normal sometimes. We still loved my dad and missed him greatly, but it's unrealistic to expect someone would be somber and sad 24/7. I remember my mom joking in the car while leading the parade of cars from the funeral to the grave "we should go through the McDonalds drive thru, because then everyone would have to follow." then she laughed, and said, "We shouldn't be laughing at this right now." But, humor is a defense mechanism and it's a way of still feeling normal at a time where life is anything but. I don't think him acting lightly this long after the death is showing that he is guilty.
Woah... @katethemom I went to grab the Real Crime profile podcast link for you but they had been removed. I guess the Ramsey's have a lawsuit with CBS over the series I mentioned and RCP removed the related episodes. That's too bad it was really good.
@galactickates Oh no! That sucks. I remember hearing something about the Ramsey's being upset about the contents of one of the shows about the case. Oh well... thanks anyway!
@sweetyjenj I'm sorry to hear about your dad. Thanks for sharing that. I definitely don't think there's anything wrong with people joking around after those situations. No one can (or should) somber all the time. It just seemed different in this case where he was being accused of the murder, yet still talked about it so lightly and laughed at jokes about pushing people down the stairs. That seems to be on a whole different level than the type of scenario you explained (in my opinion at least--of course no one can say until they've been in that situation).
And I don't think it shows that he's guilty. It's just kind of weird and is hard to watch in some cases because it seems so wrong.
Thanks for letting me hang out with you guys...it's interesting talking about this story! I was googling it today and found a reddit thread where someone said the biggest question that needs to be answered is: Why did that woman gift all of her family members blow pokes? WTF kind of gift is that?! lol.
@molosmiles definitely listen to undisclosed! I flip flopped on Adnan during serial but undisclosed convinced me he is innocent. Jay is a complete liar and the police had to have cut him some sort of deal to lie and say it was Adnan.
@katethemom ooh the Ramsey case is really interesting! I remember seeing on the most recent show about it that the brother would poop in her bed and smear it on her walls. That is some sick s*#$t!
I don't think the 911 call is suspicious because when you are in shock some of the things you do and say don't make sense. I had to call 911 once and got to hear the clip later and I didn't know my own address. I just kept repeating part of it over and over but I didn't know the cross street. I went blank. Like you just feel all this pressure and can't think straight. He wasn't focused on the stairs and probably couldn't even understand the question. If anything the call makes me think he could be a very good actor but still guilty.. maybe?
Re: Serial; I lean towards Adnan being innocent, mostly based on a lack of convincing motive, but I get hung up on the fact that Jay knew where Hai’s car was. If Don committed the crime, where does Jay fit in?
Married: May 2012 DS1: May 2016 DS2: Jan 2019 Baby #3 EDD: 6/18/24
In undisclosed when they were going over jay's recordings they heard a tapping and realized the officers were giving him the things to say. Tapping at maps or information. That's the point... Jay doesn't fit in. They just used him to convict Adnan. He didn't know where the car was, the officers found it and then got jay to "lead them to it" jay was a drug dealer and he did it to get out of charges. If Jay was actually apart of it he could have been charged with the murder as well. He wasn't was he?
@greenhillgirl I remember seeing that on the show. I think he acted out because of how much attention JonBenet got from their mother with the whole pageant circuit. Have you seen his interview with Dr. Phil? He behaves in such an odd way - very revealing of his character.
There is a really great podcast episode of truth and justice where Bob Ruff has Jim Clemente on. He's a criminal profiler. It's a great episode. I'll see if I can find the link. Bob Ruff was a firefighter who decided to try to figure out who killed Hae. That was his main goal so it's more interesting
I made the mistake of watching the staircase with my SO so I have to wait for him to watch an episode so I'm still on episode 2. I put on the forensic files episode about it last night (it's on Hulu and titled ' A Novel Idea' but I felt guilty knowing I would know more than him so I turned it off. Damn guilt.
Did anyone hear the conspiracy theory that Katy Perry is JonBenet? Ridiculous.
I like podbay because you can skip past commercials but use whatever you like to listen. Those are the episode numbers. Just a hint... Bob Ruff didn't order his podcasts by number, they are numbered by case. Anything with 1 is Hae min Lee. They aren't in numerical order. I also skip his intros.
@molosmiles I had heard that about Katy Perry. I love conspiracy theories, but how did someone come up with that one?
I have never listened to podcasts much, but all this talk about them really has me intrigued. If you can find that link you just mentioned @galactickates , I'll definitely check it out - and hang out on this thread, too. Lol.
@offtoneverland I was put off by their jokes about death and murder, too. "I'm not the one going to jail for murder, HAHAHA" "If we have a hanging jury, you'll have a hung attorney because I'm not doing this again, HAHAHA" there was quite a few more. He doesn't strike me as someone who's trying to get away with killing someone, but I agree that some of their jokes were cold blooded
@cait32 yes!!! Initially, I thought he would be guilty. But then after a few episodes, and especially watching the trial unfold, I realized he was innocent (in my opinion). We're actually watching the final episode right now, and these final episodes that are shown AFTER the trial, in 2017, solidifies my opinion.
**spoiler: end result mentioned** after he gets out of jail, and he is offered the alfred plea, he STILL wants to take it back to trial to prove his innocence. To me, if you realized you basically got away with murder and had the chance to just take the Alfred plea, why the heck wouldn't you? Why try to insist on a retrial if you WERE guilty and were trying to get away with it? Why put yourself back in the line of fire, when you have an easy way out? I think only an innocent man set on showing the truth would do that.
Hi there lurking from December. I'm op episode 10 but I know the ending and read all the comments here. I kind of feel like he's innocent. There isn't enough blood evidence to sway me in thinking he murdered her. The 911 call isn't suspect to me at all. As a trauma therapist and someone who has actually experienced something traumatic, there is no logic when faced in a situation like that. I don't think it's weird he was fumbling over his words, took long pauses, and hung up. I don't think it's suspect that some of the blood appeared dry as we don't know how long she was lying there before he found her. I though Dever's testimony was such shit and so unbelievable, I can't believe they believed him. I agree with above that I don't think the prosecution proved the burden of proof and they should have found him innocent from what I saw. In response to earlier in this thread I also would assume my husband fell down the stairs if he was lying at the bottom of them, regardless of the amount of blood.
My my last thought is the medical examiner. Why didn't they used a neutral third party to do the autopsy for the German lady? That way the person wasn't biased? Also, I've never heard the cause of death being homicide, isn't it usually "blunt force trauma", "asphyxiation" "gun shot wound" etc? She seemed like she was also just trying to pin it on Michael. Some of the comments he and his family made were cringe worthy but it went on for 2 years after her death so idk, plus the documentary people could have picked those few moments to show in the documentary.
Re: The Staircase - True Crime Discussion
No one has answered my question about if there was a blood trail going from outside to inside or if the alleged owl attack happened inside or outside. Does anyone know?
There were a few spots of blood found outside the home that supports the theory that she was attacked by an owl before entering the house. I think the theory is that the owl attacked her outside, and she attempted to make it up the stairs to clean herself up. She had a bit of hair and an owl feather in one of her hands that would be consistent with her trying to dislodge an owl from her head. I believe there was also a footprint of hers found that may have shown that she began stepping in her own blood before walking up the stairs, but I'm not sure about that. Does anyone else know?
Edited for grammar.
ETA: Today was the first time I'd heard of the owl theory. But I don't see how she could have made it to the stairs before bleeding all over.
I have to add that I have no idea how I would react in that situation but I find his behavior odd AF.
Edited to add " " . I think that might clear up a little of my rambling.
Even with a ton of blood? You wouldn't be sketched out at all? In your experience when people fall down the stairs there is also massive blood. He didn't tell the 911 operator that there was blood. I feel like if my husband or anyone I knew was covered in blood I would tell the operator that very significant detail.
"911 I think my husband may have fallen down the stairs, there is blood everywhere please send help"
@galactickates That's a really good point that he didn't mention the blood. He didn't, right? That seems like a very pertinent detail for him to have left off. The 911 call is weird, but I can kind of understand him not answering the question about the stairs. What I don't understand is him just hanging up? That seems so super weird to me that he just hung up, but I guess we can't understand what people do under duress.
I can't decide if he's guilty or innocent. I'm very easily convinced, so I constantly switch my opinion while watching the show. His behavior throughout the documentary is definitely very weird. I can't imagine finding my husband in a pool of blood at the bottom of the stairs, then a few months later being able to talk about the gruesome crime scene while chatting away and making dinner. In the fourth or fifth episode, the whole family is sitting around the dinner table joking about how they're going to make masks of his face for Halloween. They were laughing and saying "If you don't give me candy, I'll shove you down the stairs!" Even though the family thinks he's innocent, I just can't imagine finding that humorous in any way after being accused of such a thing, and after having to walk in on that scene.
Regardless, it seems like the investigators royally effed up this case, especially with the quote that @SweetBriarBee shared. How did they not even mention those drops of blood outside, or the owl feathers or pine needles in her hands during the investigation? I guess maybe they did, but we didn't see it in the show. I'm not saying it was the owl, just saying it seems like pertinent evidence that was ignored, especially the blood outside. I don't remember that being mentioned in the show (yet, at least...I haven't finished it).
Question: Do they ever get back to his German friend who fell down the stairs and was exhumed from her grave for another autopsy? In the one episode that mentioned it, the person who did the autopsy said it definitely looked like murder because she had contusions on her head as well. But they also said she had had an aneurysm or something, which is what caused her to fall. I'm just confused as to what was the actually verdict of her death.
DD1: 8/2014
TTC #2: 6/2017
BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
DD2: 10/2018
I seriously need to finish this series, so far in what I've seen nothing screams innocent to me.
I've been listening to season 2 of In the dark- a podcast about a man who has gone to trial 6 times for a crime I don't believe he committed. Adnon from serial... I totally believe he is innocent. I really hate the idea of innocent people going to jail for a crime they didn't commit. It makes me sick thinking about it. I might not sound like it, but I wish Michael Peterson was innocent. I think it's awful to lose your wife then be accused of murdering her. I mean really? That has to be so incredibly painful.... if you are innocent. I just don't believe he is. From what I have seen so far he seems like a sociopath.
DD1: 8/2014
TTC #2: 6/2017
BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
DD2: 10/2018
Eta - I totally flip flopped during serial too. A lot of stuff came out after that podcast which solidified my opinion
I am just not convinced that the 911 call is all that suspicious. He sounds out of sorts and frantic, which is exactly how I think anyone would sound in that situation. And I agree with @SweetBriarBee. Falling down the stairs is really the only logical thing you could assume happened if someone is lying at the bottom of a staircase bleeding out with nothing else around them.
Just out of curiosity, has anyone read or watched much about the JonBenet Ramsey case? I always found that one to be very interesting.
@katethemom I find the JonBenet Ramsey case fascinating. I seriously have no idea who committed that crime. I tried to read a book about the case called “Perfect Murder Perfect Town,” but I had to stop because it kept going into detail on JonBenet’s body, and it was just too much for me.
DS1: May 2016
DS2: Jan 2019
Baby #3 EDD: 6/18/24
The theory of Jon benet that makes most sense to me, is her brother killed her and her parents covered it up. I think he killed her over the stupid pineapple. They said that the ransom note was in Patsy's handwriting. There was an episode on the podcast real crime profile I thought was interesting. I think they did a tv series on it too but I haven't seen it yet
@galactickates I reached the same conclusion that the brother did it. At first I thought Patsy, but I think she truly loved her children and wouldn't have done something that extreme. I think she was willing to cover it up, because she didn't want to lose her only other child. There were a few different TV specials that came out a couple years ago that I watched, but I can't recall what they were. I'd be interested in listening to the podcast, too.
I'm in the middle of watching an episode right now. DH is really into this, too, so that's fun. He thinks guilty, I think innocent. I want to add, I remember when my father died when I was 11 from cancer, we DID still joke around and laugh and seem normal sometimes. We still loved my dad and missed him greatly, but it's unrealistic to expect someone would be somber and sad 24/7. I remember my mom joking in the car while leading the parade of cars from the funeral to the grave "we should go through the McDonalds drive thru, because then everyone would have to follow." then she laughed, and said, "We shouldn't be laughing at this right now." But, humor is a defense mechanism and it's a way of still feeling normal at a time where life is anything but. I don't think him acting lightly this long after the death is showing that he is guilty.
Married: 8/11/2007
DD: Born 2/3/17
BFP#2: 5/3, EDD 1/10/19
And I don't think it shows that he's guilty. It's just kind of weird and is hard to watch in some cases because it seems so wrong.
Thanks for letting me hang out with you guys...it's interesting talking about this story! I was googling it today and found a reddit thread where someone said the biggest question that needs to be answered is: Why did that woman gift all of her family members blow pokes? WTF kind of gift is that?! lol.
DD1: 8/2014
TTC #2: 6/2017
BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
DD2: 10/2018
Jay is a complete liar and the police had to have cut him some sort of deal to lie and say it was Adnan.
I don't think the 911 call is suspicious because when you are in shock some of the things you do and say don't make sense. I had to call 911 once and got to hear the clip later and I didn't know my own address. I just kept repeating part of it over and over but I didn't know the cross street. I went blank. Like you just feel all this pressure and can't think straight. He wasn't focused on the stairs and probably couldn't even understand the question. If anything the call makes me think he could be a very good actor but still guilty.. maybe?
DS1: May 2016
DS2: Jan 2019
Baby #3 EDD: 6/18/24
If not
DS1: May 2016
DS2: Jan 2019
Baby #3 EDD: 6/18/24
I made the mistake of watching the staircase with my SO so I have to wait for him to watch an episode so I'm still on episode 2. I put on the forensic files episode about it last night (it's on Hulu and titled ' A Novel Idea' but I felt guilty knowing I would know more than him so I turned it off. Damn guilt.
Did anyone hear the conspiracy theory that Katy Perry is JonBenet? Ridiculous.
https://podbay.fm/show/990753230/e/1445135988?autostart=1
The episode Jim Clemente and Laura Richards profile Jay's testimony episode 133
https://podbay.fm/show/990753230/e/1454853601?autostart=1
I like podbay because you can skip past commercials but use whatever you like to listen. Those are the episode numbers.
Just a hint... Bob Ruff didn't order his podcasts by number, they are numbered by case. Anything with 1 is Hae min Lee. They aren't in numerical order. I also skip his intros.
I have never listened to podcasts much, but all this talk about them really has me intrigued. If you can find that link you just mentioned @galactickates , I'll definitely check it out - and hang out on this thread, too. Lol.
Married: 8/11/2007
DD: Born 2/3/17
BFP#2: 5/3, EDD 1/10/19
Married: 8/11/2007
DD: Born 2/3/17
BFP#2: 5/3, EDD 1/10/19
I kind of feel like he's innocent. There isn't enough blood evidence to sway me in thinking he murdered her. The 911 call isn't suspect to me at all. As a trauma therapist and someone who has actually experienced something traumatic, there is no logic when faced in a situation like that. I don't think it's weird he was fumbling over his words, took long pauses, and hung up. I don't think it's suspect that some of the blood appeared dry as we don't know how long she was lying there before he found her.
I though Dever's testimony was such shit and so unbelievable, I can't believe they believed him. I agree with above that I don't think the prosecution proved the burden of proof and they should have found him innocent from what I saw.
In response to earlier in this thread I also would assume my husband fell down the stairs if he was lying at the bottom of them, regardless of the amount of blood.
My my last thought is the medical examiner. Why didn't they used a neutral third party to do the autopsy for the German lady? That way the person wasn't biased? Also, I've never heard the cause of death being homicide, isn't it usually "blunt force trauma", "asphyxiation" "gun shot wound" etc? She seemed like she was also just trying to pin it on Michael.
Some of the comments he and his family made were cringe worthy but it went on for 2 years after her death so idk, plus the documentary people could have picked those few moments to show in the documentary.