IVF Single Mom By Choice

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom I don't think its timing issues. Because it implanted both times. I really don't want to waste another good embryo.

wish i didnt have to go to work today

mtpbadger · August 2017

@prudence9-2 I've been lurking and am so so sorry to see your news. If you have any questions regarding surrogacy, feel free to reach out, I've started the process (it can take 6-9 months just to match) while trying some different things with my RE to see if my body responds differently (without transferring anything so far). TW**** I have a history of thin lining (two CPs during IUIs and a CP during an FET) so I know what you're going through and it totally sucks. I would get a period after stopping all my meds during my CPs.

Hang in there!

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

mtpbadger helloooo my lovely!! I"m so glad you're lurking! You of course are the one I was talking about

I'm the worst at spelling and kept getting the wrong name on my mobile...so much easier to navigate the site on a computer. How are you doing? Have you had any progress on your own? Possible Fet in your future?

prudence9-2 thank goodness its Friday and you have the weekend. Of course we don't want to waste them I'm just glad you have them!!

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@mtpbadger thanks! And yes, I would love to get more information. Can't believe it takes so long to match with a surrogate!!! That makes me think that I should definitely start the process, no matter what I'm going to do...
what does your RE think is the cause of your CP? The thin lining?

@hopeful_mom yeah. Not sure I'm looking forward the weekend either. Then it will be just me and my sad thoughts.

LoveDontCostAThing · August 2017

@prudence9-2 -thinking of you

...sorry you're going through this mess. maybe over the weekend try to focus on reading and writing down good questions for Monday. you could start googling about surrogacy (just in case, but the dr. may not think you need to yet)...it all sucks, but at least you will be "moving forward" and learning new information. I'm really glad that you have an appointment on Monday. you could get a massage or pedicure. do something for yourself...go shopping! nothing is worse than being alone with your thoughts so try to keep busy. I should know because I am the anxiety/ OCD gal. I have anxiety/ obsessive thoughts everyday, but keeping busy is what always helps me the most. distract the mind. when your mind goes down a negative path, put up a "fence," and force yourself to think about something else. also, I think after my chemical my period was pretty heavy, followed by lighter cycles. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I think you will get your period soon. ask your dr. on Monday too. I'm thinking you'll get it when your beta is back close to 0. hang in there...we are all here for you!

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@LoveDontCostAThing yeah you're right...

I don't think I'm gonna get my period that soon though. I hope it goes down fast. My next beta is on Monday...

prudence9-2 · August 2017

had few vodka shots with the guys at work. (Actually mine wasn't really full shots was more like a tiny sip of vodka)

anyway, it's been 2 hours since. And I know it's all in my head. But I def feel weird stuff in my stomach. I wonder if the embryo is still there half alive? Is it all gone? Am I helping it die by drinking?

liljoy-2 · August 2017

I have no business being on here (although long story short I might be single in the future)..but I still follow various threads because I already spent so much time on the board and because I still need to come back and use my 3 normal embryos somehow (and I will be in my late 30s by then), either myself or via a surrogate if I'm lucky to find one/have money for it.

Just wanted to say I'm truly sorry for you @@prudence9-2 ....it's hard to put it in words...But wanted to offer bits of info, since I am still struggling with this PGS technology based on my weird history. For one, know that in the months I was doing my treatments, there were several young ladies (in their 30s) that were successful only on their 3rd or 4th PGS normal transfers without changing the protocol or testing their body. There was no special reason why it took one time vs the other.
Second, and I specifically asked my RE and the genetic counsellors I spoke to regarding the PGS tests, I understand that the test can only detect integrity of whole chromosomes or big chunks of them, not if small parts of chromosomes are missing or more so, if certain genes are defective. So in other words, PGS normality (if it were truly accurate which I know from my experience it is not) only scratches the surface of "normality", it does not guarantee an embryo is 100% genetically good. That's why they think the implantation/viability rate is not 100% or very high, at least.

Maybe you can ask this too when you meet with your RE. So sorry, again....you still have 2 more though!!! Don't lose hope...maybe also ask about a different FET protocol?

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@liljoy-2 yeah,I know. Actually last time, my dr said it was probably a genetic defect with my PGS normal embryo. And I have a feeling she's gonna say the same this time. So yes, you're probably right about that.

I actually woke up in the middle of the night and was thinking about exactly this. And I have a feeling she's going to recommend donor eggs.

As as for the FET protocol, I think it worked. 2 out of 2 times the embryo implanted. It just can't stick there for too long. Whether the problem is with the quality of the embryo or something with me.

LoveDontCostAThing · August 2017

@prudence9-2 -how are you doing? I'm not sure about the vodka question, but we all know that many women drink in the beginning of pregnancy if they don't know they're pregnant yet. My guess would be that the embryo is already gone since your beta is dropping, but of course, I'm not 100% sure. If your dr. suggests donor eggs, is that a lot cheaper than a surrogate? Also, if she does suggest it then you should probably use your other two first. Would you ever consider transferring both at once, given the history of the other two?

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

prudence9-2 how are u doing today? I dont think any alcohol or anything else is doing anything to you body I'm sorry to say

liljoy-2 hope your pregnancy is going well, I know you've been struggling. How far long are you again? Seems like you have a full plate going on, nice of you to check in!

AFM: AF is here and I'm suppose to go the the dr tomorrow but I'm pretty far away and have no desire to get up so early tomorrow

Guess we shall see...

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@LoveDontCostAThing I don't think my dr would recommend transferring both. My problem is not with implantation. I don't think my dr would want to take the risk I have twins. And neither would I. My problem seems to be keep the embryo once it implants.

And yeah. Donor eggs is much cheaper than surrogate. Surrogate I think is $100-150k. And donor eggs not sure. But don't think it's more than $10k. But haven't looked into that.

@hopeul_mom I'm still sad. Don't think I'm really going to be ok for a while. Just got back from brunch. Had two margaritas. Might take a nap now...

are you considering taking a cycle off? Your body has been thru so much. Maybe one cycle off will help you get back to normal?

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@LoveDontCostAThing actually. I think egg donor cost at least twice as what I specified above....or actually more. Because I think some places you have to pay the cost of the IVF for the other woman. Not sure... still hope I can use my own.

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

prudence9-2 yea i think donor is more like 20k depending what you're able to do....a few ppl on here are doing donor so you can get a bunch of info you can get on that thread.
Of course you're sad - devastated!! I'm sad for you! I've been in my house all day being crampy and sad. Right now i dont want to take the cycle off...is my body ever going to be fully ready? I'm hoping it will be in 20 days!

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom yeah, I totally get you not wanting to take a cycle off. And you're right, 20 days should be enough time for your body to get back to normal... and if 20 days from now you don't feel right, you can always push by a cycle at that point.

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

prudence9-2 yea my RE said this AF would be a doozy and OMG is it ever

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom

yeah... and I'm also really not looking forward the next AF... I mean, I want it to be here ASAP... but not looking forward to it... if that makes any sense. Haha

do you know what you FET protocol gonna be? It's a non medicated one, but do you know if you will still take some estrogen and/or PIO for support?

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

prudence9-2 I totally hope it comes sooner then later for u and i hope to never see mine again

I'm doing a medicated cycle, will start with estrace once a day till its 3x a day, then the crinone and then PIO every 3rd day i think

No lurpon or bcp...but the rest seems similar to others....I'm hella nervous already, but the pain is taking my mind off of it!

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@Hopeful_mom sorry to hear you're still in pain!

so if no Lupron that means that you will still ovulate? Which means you won't need PIO until 3 months?

prudence9-2 · August 2017

Oh and PIO every 3 day? Wow. That's not bad at all!

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

I think they use the estrace as suppression.

How are your questions coming for the RE? prudence9-2

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom oh ok. Good thing you don't have to use Lupron. It's the worst.

Was actually trying to not think about it. But I'll have to sit down and think about questions soon.

prudence9-2 · August 2017

Waiting to get my beta done. Hope it went down!! (So sad this is what I'm hoping for

)

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

prudence9-2 hoping it goes down faster for you as it probably will

Were any of these embryos the hatched ones? I have this feeling your RE will still want to do the same protocol moving forward. All the reading I was doing still just stated it just sometimes doesn't align for whatever reason. ugh its just so frustrating! I'm sorry you're going through this!

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom last time it took forever to come down. Once it reached 78 I still had 3.5 weeks. hopefully I won't have to wait so long like last time!

this was my hatched embryo... 5BB. And yeah, the protocol worked. The embryo implanted! So I don't think she would want to change it either.

Did you start estrace last night?

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

prudence9-2 I'm so hoping it will go down faster...I know I hate saying that

AFM: I did take my first dose of estrace last night and continue with that upping it as the days progress. Now I have my calendar, I go in 9/8 for bw/us to see if I'm ready to add in the progesterone and possible transfer 9/14 eeeekkkkkk

I think I dm u last night...the nurse didn't want to take my blood right away.

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom that is so exciting! (And a little scary too!)

yeah, I saw your message. Don't get it why she wouldn't take your blood!!

LoveDontCostAThing · August 2017

hi ladies,
sorry, been crazy...school started today

well, long, boring meetings started.

@hopeful_mom- sorry you're still crampy!! what is causing it again? it must be worse cramps with your period. that is exciting that you have a potential transfer date!

@prudence9-2- holy cow, donor eggs are expensive too. what an unfair process this all is. I think that if women can't have children naturally, it should be covered regardless. it's just so messed up. what did your dr. say today?

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@LoveDontCostAThing like @Hopeful_mom keeps saying, this is my one million dollar baby. I'm numb to the costs at this point...

Anyway, back from my Dr appt. Almost didn't have to ask anything. She covered everything... So here goes... She is not recommending another IVF cycle. She thinks that most likely 60-40 that it is my eggs and not my uterus. So if we do another cycle now, before I'm 42, I won't get better eggs than what I got when I was 41. She says that having 2 PGS normal embryos that implanted just fine but then miscarry is bringing us to the more experimental territory. On one hand, she thinks it the embryos, so she hopes that out of my 4, at least 1 would be normal. Second, she's talking about immune issues. (hence the experimental territory). She mentioned prednisone but said she wouldn't feel confident giving me that as there are not many research to show the short & long term... instead, she said, she would put me on a weekly injection called: neupogen. Which is suppose to increase my white blood cells count... She said that there is more short term research with it, but so far, not yet too much long term... so she doesn't know if leukemia can happen because of it... but she would only put me on it for 6.5 weeks, so she thinks that's okay.

At some point, she mentioned why not put my two embryos just so we know quicker if one of them is good instead of having to do another FET. But, twins pregnancy is more risky and especially for someone as petite as I am.... Also, if we put only one and it miscarries as well, we can do even more experimental stuff... she then said there is one Dr in the Bay Area that does all the experimental immune procedures that she's not comfortable with... but we will see if it gets to that.

If both my embryos fail, we can then try a donor egg and if that fail surrogacy.

My problem is not implantation. 2 out of 2 implanted just fine. So other then the addition of the neupogen, she doesn't think we have to tweak my protocol.

Also, my beta is down to 100... still at least 1.5 weeks to go.... (last time from 78 it took 3.5 weeks, but since this time the m/c happened sooner, she's hoping it won't be more than 2 weeks total...)

Before going I told myself that unless she modifies something, I will not go for another FET blindly... but her addition of that weekly injection is at least something different.... So I guess I'm looking at probably October FET...

October was when my due date was suppose to be... and that is also when I'm going to turn 42....

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

prudence9-2 sounds like you had a good meeting! I hear ya on the million dollar baby!! I know its hard to take it all in and not think of the costs involved. I do you feel about using donor eggs? Thoughts on adoption? I don't know its a lot to take it for sure!! You really had great success on your first cycle, don't know if i agree on the not to bother with another ivf cycle.
I know its so hard approaching your due date!!
Today for whatever reason its been a hard day! I keep think I should have twins a month old already...you know I get it!
SO because your beta was above 100 she believes that the embryo implanted properly?
I keep re-reading what you wrote and I'm a lil concerned about a shot that could cause leukemia if its taken too long? What is that one for? In case there are immune issues? Does she suggest going for the work up?
If you're in heart ready to move on then we are right there with you!

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom it definitely implanted both times. So she doesn't think implantation is my issue.

She thinks that it is a genetic defect with the embryo that cannot be detected in PGS. But hope that at least 1 our of the 4 will be good.

The comment about leukemia is not scientific... she said there is not much research of the long term of that medication. And mentioned leukemia because we are messing with blood count. She thinks that 6.5 weeks will be fine.

From what I can tell by my quick research about it is that it has been used in some immune cases (or thin lining).

I think adoption takes years. And not so sure if a single woman can adopt easily. So I think for me, donor egg+ surrogacy might be the way to go if my two remaining fail and then if I fail again with a donor egg.

Well, as for my IVF cycle, yes, I had many eggs. But only 13% were PGS normal... and that was at 41.... at 42, my PGS normal percentage might be lower. And also, PGS only checks for the chromosomes. So if it is a smaller defect, it will not detect it.

She's not going to do any immune tests, but just prescribe that medication and see if we get a different outcome. Am I scared? of course...

BTW - also my period started... which is weird because my HCG level is at 100...

prudence9-2 · August 2017

Reading about this drug is a little scary. I will email few questions to my dr tomorrow.

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

you know i think my beta was first negative after I got AF so hopefully that'll be the same for you! Ugh I have such a killer headache! Just hoping this next time is it my friend!

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@hopeful_mom my beta is 100 but this is def AF... and she came in all her force!!!

I read online that sometimes you can get the period even before hcg is negative...

did you take anything for the headache? You can take Tylenol. And if you add a shot of coffee (not joking) then it will be more similar to Excedrin Migraine! Try it.

prudence9-2 · August 2017

Sorry for the TMI... this is the strongest period I had since before I started treatments!! Actually the strongest in YEARS!!! Wtf!!!!

mtpbadger · August 2017

@prudence9-2 I'm glad you were able to meet with your RE and that she is willing to tweak things a little bit!

My work computer is being stupid and not letting me send you a PM so I'll put some info here regarding surrogacy.

My RE did recommend using a GC (gestational carrier) due to my history of thin lining and brought it up after my 2nd failed FET (maybe?) just to start thinking about it as a possible future option. After several cancelled and also several BFN's, she said to start seriously considering it since it can take 6-9 months to match. My agency had a list of agencies and attorney's they have worked with so we started there with our research.

From what we found, bigger agencies you are able to match quicker but it can be more expensive and more fees added on "match fee; initial fee; re-match fee if the first one doesn't work out for some reason, etc." and a lot tend to be VERY GC focused, not so much on the intended parent (IP). We ended up signing with an attorney who also does the matching and was very straight forward with her fees and pricing. We also asked her for some references and spoke with someone that had used her and had success and she was very honest with us, so that was helpful. A lot of the other agencies just did sit well with me (they took forever to respond, had a lot of grammatical/spelling errors on their site, etc.) and the attorney we went with is very much a straight shooter, all business and my RE had great things to say about her.

I believe you are in CA? They have a lot of agencies that we had started to look into, but since I'm on the east coast, I didn't want to have to deal with the time difference if I had any pressing questions/issues regarding paperwork.

Cost wise - what we have/will be paying: Flat fee for attorney services for us ($25,000) which includes the screening and matching for GC; drawing up the legal contract; and any additional things that pop up; the fee for the GC ($28,000-$45,000) and expenses which include maternity clothes, travel, lost wages, insurance deductibles, medications, legal fees for the GC, etc. ($10,000 to $18,000).

It was overwhelming at first and took me a little while to feel comfortable with going this route, I have come to terms with it. I won't say I'm at peace b/c it still sucks and I'm sure once we actually match and get back into the nitty-gritty, it will hit me at different times that this is my new reality, but I'm glad we got the ball rolling when we did. We signed with our attorney the end of May and are still waiting for a match. During that time, my RE placed me on metformin and a supplement and I've been able to get my thyroid closely monitored and stabilized. My RE still wants to try 1-2 more FET cycles, just to see how my lining responds, but I don't have high hopes. I'm really glad that I didn't try again 2-3 more time and THEN start the process of GC, just b/c that would have put me back almost another year.

I don't have too much more information about the whole GC process since I've only done the initial steps and am in the waiting period, but I will keep you updated! Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any other questions or want more information.

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@mtpbadger thank you so much for the information!

Do you have enough frozen embryos? Or will you need to go thru another IVF cycle? Can I ask how old are you?

from my meeting with my doctor yesterday it seems like she's still thinking (no way to know for sure) that my problem is the quality of the embryos. Even though they are PGS normal. So I think that before she'd recommend GC, she will first tell me to look into donor eggs. I believe that the DE process also takes months to even get a match. So I'm going to start looking into that as well.

say your next FET is successful, in that case, you just pay for the lawyer & matching fees? And you stop the process?

mtpbadger · August 2017

I have 4 frozen embryo's left, but untested and am 33. My RE is telling us to think about doing another retrieval and do PGS testing, just since each transfer is so expensive with a GC and doesn't recommend thawing mine for testing.

Exactly, if my next FET is successful, we would either stop the process, or just hold off on signing a contract with a GC but keep the lawyer on retainer, should we ever need to revisit using a GC in the near future.

My RE said she's not concerned about my eggs, but I'm a little terrified (and trying not to think about it) that we do use a GC with PGS tested embryos and we either don't get any normals or it still doesn't work. Trying to only focus on what I can right now though.

prudence9-2 · August 2017

@mtpbadger I think that one of the most difficult things about this process is the number of uncertainties. You never know if you're making the right decision. But have to make the decision and live with it.

Do you know why it takes so long to find a match? Is it because there are not many women who want to be surrogates? Or the demand is so high?

When are you planning to do the next FET? Will your RE tweak the protocol?

Hopeful_mom · August 2017

Had a feeling my PGS results were in and from my Drs msg I could tell it wasn't good news. Nothing came back normal from this batch so that's obviously upsetting to say the least.

It makes me so angry not to walk away with one good one after all that. So much money and time...
yes I still have 5 good ones but there are no guarantees which makes it all that much tougher! SO much for ending IVF on a high note.

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