Hot Topic Tuesday - Princess Wars

carries2018 · March 2017

what are your feelings on little girls (or boys) and obsessions with princesses? Do you think it sets them up for failure and creates a false "weak" image of themselves? Breeds brats? Bunch of crock people need to calm down?

Disclaimer: my brain is working about 43% today i hope this debate question makes sense.

carries2018 · March 2017

my opinion pre-kids and post is totally different.

pre-kids: NO WAY NO PRINCESSES IN MY HOUSE! i am not having a bunch of brats.

post kids: everyone needs to calm down. it is imagination. what harm is it twirling around in a dress calling themselves pretty looking for a prince. that is hardly the only tool they have to shape their lives. to this day i like to look/feel beautiful. my daughters should feel that too. just because they are obsessed with Tangled doesn't mean they will spend their lives waiting for a prince in a tower. let them be kids and pretend.

beezeee · March 2017

IDGAF. I don't really promote princess stuff with DD, don't call her princess or names like that, and I try to introduce her to a wide variety of toys, role models, etc., but if she wants to play with princesses, watch princess movies, etc. I'm totally fine with it.

jessafishy · March 2017

I think kids are going to like what they are going to like and the only way it will at all affect them as adults are if you aren't doing any actual parenting.

VLillyV · March 2017

Well... I don't have kids yet... but...

I was the only girl in my family household. I was nicknamed Little Princess (out of love). I played with dolls once in a while... but I LOVE Disney movies... and princesses in particular. It's hard to explain. I am a tomboy, so I am not bratty or girly at all, however, something about Disney Princesses really pull and tug at my heart strings.

I don't know how i'd feel about dressing up as a princess (i never did that) and likely wouldn't allow that because it's just a little much.

I was actually having this discussion with my coworker earlier today as well. I don't know if I'd promote buying princesses for a boy... I am not closed minded at all but just don't even know what that entails yet.
(I would love to know your opinion, thoughts, etc)

carries2018 · March 2017

VLillyV said:

I was actually having this discussion with my coworker earlier today as well. I don't know if I'd promote buying princesses for a boy... I am not closed minded at all but just don't even know what that entails yet.
(I would love to know your opinion, thoughts, etc)

my opinion is whatever they want. but i have some friends that are obsessed with breaking gender barriers, which is fine. but they like force princesses on their sons. if he wants it that is one thing, but IMO there is definitely a movement to force it upon them. and that i don't think is any better than pointing the finger at girl moms who perhaps "force" it on their daughters. i was pretty anti-princess. it was my daughters that made me accept it haha.

jessafishy · March 2017

Somewhat related - I got DS a baby doll when he was around a year old. DH was weird about it at first but I think it's silly that boys aren't encouraged to like the same variety of things that girls are. He loved the babies at daycare and he still plays with his baby at home (last night he was putting the baby to bed and covering her up with a blanket and saying "Night, night Baby!")

Oh no, what's going to happen? He's going to grow up to be a good father?

carries2018 · March 2017

@jessafishy i dont get the baby doll hate. that one is bizarre it shouldnt be tied to a girl only. my H gets just as giddy over a cute baby as i do. well actually he will prob jump up and down about it more than me haha.

jessafishy · March 2017

Right @carries2018? DH and I talked about this a lot when DS was really little.

If you guys haven't already I really encourage you to look up the blog "Raising My Rainbow". It's a mom who talks about her gender non-conforming son and how their family is reacting to it. It was something I had never really thought much about before and I'm glad I found that blog and got a little insight.

beezeee · March 2017

@jessafishy right? Like what difference does it make if the have an Elsa backpack/birthday cake/pajamas/etc.

@carries2018 I was the same way pre-baby. Then your kid wants something princess related and it's like, are you really going to turn them down for that reason? No.

carries2018 · March 2017

also on the same token. i dont think there is anything wrong with getting everything pink if you have girls (or boys). but some people get really judgey about over doing pink with girls. who cares?

natleilynn · March 2017

DD loves princesses and barbies and PJ Masks toys and cars and trucks and boats and whatever else we put in front of her.

I figure I'm not forcing princesses on her and I'm not forcing GI Joe's on her so...whatever.

beezeee · March 2017

Haha @carries2018 I was one of those people pre-baby. I was anti pink for DD. She's a total girly girl now, loves pink, dresses, etc. so I just go with her preference, because you're right, who cares?

beezeee · March 2017

I should add, DD also wears boys underwear because Thomas the Train is what she wanted, and surprise surprise, they only had them in the boy style underwear. I'm all about letting her figure out her likes and dislikes and not pushing her one way or the other.

bluejeanbabi05 · March 2017

I love this conversation, and all you ladies. FTM mom here, but I definitely believe in just letting my kids play with what they want to play with. I don't think princesses or the color pink are inherently bad at all. I personally like the color pink. And I would love to have a little boy who likes to play with dolls.

That said, I do feel strongly for myself that I didn't want a super gender specific-decorated nursery. We just painted it last week actually, a light green because being surrounded by that color relaxes me. We might do a few coral notes for a girl, or blue for a boy, but tbh we will probably get a bunch of gender-specific gifts at our baby shower (team finding out) which will make the nursery more "boy" or "girl" on their own anyway. If that makes sense.

Tl;dr: Whatever you want to do as parents. I just don't agree with forcing something gender-related on a kid if they obviously aren't having it, or making them feel bad about wanting something "gender-specific."

natleilynn · March 2017

@bluejeanbabi05 our nursery was gender neutral, too. We painted it a green and when DD was born, we added some hot pink and grey accents. When we moved into our current house, she was 2 and requested a pink room, so pink room she received.

This LO's nursery will be a tan color (already painted that color when we moved in) and when it gets old enough to have a choice, we'll let it choose what color they want it painted as well.

I mean, we have some boundaries. DD wanted hot, hot, pink and we opted for more of a peach-ish pink...and we only did a few walls (cape cod so lots of walls) with the dark color and the rest of them were a lighter shade. But still. She loves it because she feels like she got to pick it out.

nbcarlson · March 2017

I am pretty open to whatever my son enjoys and will be the same way with this next LO whether a boy or a girl.

My son wanted a doll when he was like 1.5 so I let him pick one out and he picked out a cabbage patch doll in a lion costume lol. He loves my little ponies and asked for a my little pony party for his 3rd birthday, he ended up changing his mind to PJ Masks but I was totally fine with My little Ponies. He also loves shopkins and all those little tiny toys which are marketed towards girls. But he also spends half of the day running around with a football and tackling everything. I'm honestly fine with whatever makes him happy, kids get gender expectations pushed on them the second they start school, I'm going to let him enjoy whatever he wants while he has no outside input into what he should enjoy.

And likewise if he was only into trucks and cars dinosaurs I wouldn't push other stuff onto him. If I have a daughter and she loves Disney princesses then I will let her dive right in as well.

soprano19 · March 2017

bluejeanbabi05 said:

I love this conversation, and all you ladies. FTM mom here, but I definitely believe in just letting my kids play with what they want to play with. I don't think princesses or the color pink are inherently bad at all. I personally like the color pink. And I would love to have a little boy who likes to play with dolls.

That said, I do feel strongly for myself that I didn't want a super gender specific-decorated nursery. We just painted it last week actually, a light green because being surrounded by that color relaxes me. We might do a few coral notes for a girl, or blue for a boy, but tbh we will probably get a bunch of gender-specific gifts at our baby shower (team finding out) which will make the nursery more "boy" or "girl" on their own anyway. If that makes sense.

Tl;dr: Whatever you want to do as parents. I just don't agree with forcing something gender-related on a kid if they obviously aren't having it, or making them feel bad about wanting something "gender-specific."

This is 1000% how I feel as well. All the nursery pics I look at are neutral colors and have themes like animals.

canonmom413 · March 2017

I have two girls. They were never princess obsessed. Yes, they dressed up in princess costumes , watched movies, played with toys, and sang songs. But they also played with trains, hot wheels cars, and watched super hero shows and movies too. I feel it is your job as a parent to introduce a variety of things and not put down an interest your child has. Regardless of gender.
Edit to add: DD2 must be in a dress or skirt every day ( sometimes I can get her in jeans but rarely) but she is my super hero lover. We always joke that she's going to fix her car on the way to Prom in her prom dress.

curlyq423 · March 2017

I don't have any girls, but if I do, I have no problem letting her be obsessed with princesses. I don't think it means they are automatically set up to be brats, weak, spoiled, etc. How we raise, nurture, and discipline our children should determine what kind of people they become.

My son loves super heroes and pretends he's one all the time with super powers, but he is in no way a violent kid. We are firm in the fact we don't hit, kick, bite, etc. (Not saying he is perfect, he has his moments!)

I say let them be kids and have fun using their imagination!

nbcarlson · March 2017

carries2018 said:

also on the same token. i dont think there is anything wrong with getting everything pink if you have girls (or boys). but some people get really judgey about over doing pink with girls. who cares?

Mainly i just think its a waste of money haha. My BIL and his wife went nuts on the pink gear for their daughter and then had a boy the second time around so had to sell and rebuy everything. We purppsely bought all gender neutral gear because im cheap AF and didn't want to rebuy any of it.

carries2018 · March 2017

@canonmom413i cannot get DD1 to not wear dresses or skirts. it will be like 7 degrees outside and she is arguing wtih me she wants to wear a skirt "because it is very special to me" how am i supposed to say no to that!? so i have invested in like 234082349243 pairs of wool tights.

Maksim's Mom · March 2017

We have a toddler boy but I always feel bad for how much parents have to spend on all the Frozen things for their girls. I also absolutely love Disney movies and would not mind one bit if DS was into it. But it does get expensive! ☺️

riverrainez · March 2017

We don't push gendered themes or toys one way or the other. My son currently likes everything from dolls to trucks to kitchen sets to bugs. I'm not a girly girl AT ALL but I'm totally aware I might have a daughter (or son) who loves princesses, dresses, doing hair, and the color pink, and I'm prepared to go along with it either way.

carries2018 · March 2017

nbcarlson said:

carries2018 said:

also on the same token. i dont think there is anything wrong with getting everything pink if you have girls (or boys). but some people get really judgey about over doing pink with girls. who cares?

Mainly i just think its a waste of money haha. My BIL and his wife went nuts on the pink gear for their daughter and then had a boy the second time around so had to sell and rebuy everything. We purppsely bought all gender neutral gear because im cheap AF and didn't want to rebuy any of it.

i was like that with all my original baby stuff. some of it is even blue. but after the 2nd girl i was like screw it! PINK EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!
Image result for elf gifs

ksf13 · March 2017

My daughter was Princess Ana for Halloween. She loved meeting the princesses at Disney World and she loves princess movies. She loves to wear dresses, bows, and often tries to talk me into letting her put on makeup. She also loves music, anything medical related (she told me she's going to be a heart surgeon lol, she's 3 1/2), Star Wars, superheroes, dinosaurs, and can't wait to play on a soccer team. I don't think princesses and being spoiled/entitled/bratty go hand in hand at all. It's about how you raise them, not what their interests are

purplestarz · March 2017

Love this conversation. I grew up mostly as a tomboy and really anticipated DD would be the same. I told people I didn't really want pink things but no one listened lol and kids will like what they like. I don't know where DD got it but she almost always wants to wear dresses and loves the princesses. It's fine. It's just pretend.

On the the other hand you can take it too far. My mom was telling me her friends grandkids went to "princess school" and are a couple of entitled brats haha

shan24 · March 2017

I don't think it's the princesses that make brats. Poor parenting and permissiveness make brats. I don't have a girl (yet), but I expose my son to all kinds of things. We play "sports" and bake and he has a few dolls and some trucks. If he were to ask for a barbie, I'd get him one. I really don't care what he plays with as long as it's age appropriate. I imagine I'll be the same if this kid is a girl. Regardless of what they play with, I'll teach them proper manners and to be grateful for what they have.

mnajib92 · March 2017

nbcarlson said:

carries2018 said:

also on the same token. i dont think there is anything wrong with getting everything pink if you have girls (or boys). but some people get really judgey about over doing pink with girls. who cares?

Mainly i just think its a waste of money haha. My BIL and his wife went nuts on the pink gear for their daughter and then had a boy the second time around so had to sell and rebuy everything. We purppsely bought all gender neutral gear because im cheap AF and didn't want to rebuy any of it.

That's what I tried to do too. I didn't find out the gender with my first pregnancy so I wanted things that would fit either gender. I also don't get the point in buying a hot link stroller and then two years later wanting to get another or sell it because a boy is expected. Some people said that some of the things I got were slightly more "boyish", but I didn't care because there are very few colors I would only be OK with one gender. Specifically pink. I can't imagine getting or accepting pink things for my son.

mnajib92 · March 2017

I know people seem to think it's OK to let their boss and girls play with whatever they are inclined with, and I'm about 80% in agreement. I don't mind my 2 year old son playing with baby dolls (in fact I think it's cute and teaches valuable lessons), but I doubt I would buy him one. I would have a problem with him playing with fashion dolls like barbies or bratz. That's pretty much where I cross the line. Also, letting him dress as a princess is a no go. He can play with any other girl toys and my girls can play with any boy toys. This is just my oppinion, but I would not want my son to want to be a princess (although it'd be funny at first because of his age) I know it would bother me soon after. I disagree with cross dressing. Fashion dolls promote similar ideas and don't teach him anything valuable like a baby doll could.

Before people start preaching gender stereotypes, know that I'm specifically talking about dressing as the let gender for boys and girls. I even bought my son cooking toys and plan to get more once I can because everyone should learn to cook at least at a basic level. He helps me cook dinner too and I love it. I don't have a daughter yet. I encourage him to clean around the house too, which is another "girly role" imposed by society.

acnd08 · March 2017

Absolutely not! I think wherever their little imaginations take them should be encouraged and supported. If my daughter loves Princesses, then great! I did too when I was a little girl and I am independent to a fault. I say all of the time DH is the only person on earth that could put up with me in a marriage, haha. Along the same lines, if she dislikes everything Princess and wants to be a total tomboy, then great!

Same goes for a son in whatever situation.

The way I see it, this world is scary enough. I feel like kids are thrust into the harsh reality earlier and earlier these days, so if they want to use their imagination, I am gonna encourage it and go with whatever!

Designmamauk · March 2017

Can we also talk about how there are a lack of female roles in cartoons and kids programs besides Disney Princesses?! I have a DS but when we watch cartoons the ratio of male to female characters roles is like 3:1. Let alone leading roles. That's at least 10:1. Even when the charters are animals! It drives me nuts and makes me think that this one factor that little girls get into princesses....if they are looking for other female characters to imitate and play, there's less to choose from.

Maksim's Mom · March 2017

I just want to first say that I am a very open minded person and respect everyone's personal, sexual, and any other preference. I have gay friends, I know gay moms and dads at our daycare, it's all around us and I'm proud to raise kids in an environment of acceptance. Here's where I draw my line though, I won't shove ideas of princesses, fashion, and other feminine girly ideas down my DS throat. He is welcome to explore and learn about gender differences at his own pace.

Funny story, my DS used to looove wearing my high heels. I even recorded him on my phone and sent the cute video to friends. It was funny how well he navigated my 3" heels! But then something inside me got worried. How far do I go with lettting him wear or do girl stuff. I hid the heals and instead pointed him to DH's timberland boots.

rawr1131 · March 2017

@Designmamauk I've noticed that too! I think every show my DS watches there are 3 main characters: 2 boys and 1 girl. And side characters are 3:1 more likely to be boys as well. Off the top of my head, Chuggington, Space Racers, Daniel Tiger (not including baby sister) are 3 I can think of. There are a few girl trains in Thomas as well but none of them are really "main" characters.

emwj10187 · March 2017

boys and girls can be princesses if they want to be. A child's imagination should never be hindered. Everyone needs to calm down.\

jessafishy · March 2017

@mnajib92 I am really trying to understand your point of view please explain why you will not let your son have a baby doll or even a "fashion doll"? What are you afraid is going to happen. It simply doesn't make any logical, rational or even scientific sense to me.

Same with allowing him to wear anything girly if he decided he wanted it?

I simply don't think that anything we do as parents has any bearing on a child's sexuality or gender. All that telling them they "can't" play with certain things because they are a boy/girl does is make them feel shame. In my experience they are who they are from the moment they are born.

shan24 · March 2017

@jessafishy I completely agree. My son likes to watch me put on my makeup. I found him one day holding my (closed) mascara up to his eye, pretending to put it on. I took it from him and my reasoning to him was not that boys don't wear makeup. It was that he was too little to wear makeup. If he expressed interest in makeup as a teenager, so be it.

I feel like I can't say much more without moving into judgey territory, so I'll just say this. I'm sure that the goal of everyone here is to raise happy, healthy, productive children. If my children are that, regardless of anything else, I feel I will have done my job well.

jessafishy · March 2017

@shan24 Amen.

natleilynn · March 2017

Designmamauk said:

Can we also talk about how there are a lack of female roles in cartoons and kids programs besides Disney Princesses?! I have a DS but when we watch cartoons the ratio of male to female characters roles is like 3:1. Let alone leading roles. That's at least 10:1. Even when the charters are animals! It drives me nuts and makes me think that this one factor that little girls get into princesses....if they are looking for other female characters to imitate and play, there's less to choose from.

@Designmamauk Agreed! I was so excited when DD started her obsession with Doc McStuffins. A strong, sweet, smart female character? Yes, dear, you most certainly can be Doc McStuffins for Halloween. And any other day of the week for that matter!

kkerner87 · March 2017

A big "slogan" in my parenting style is "let them be little". In their mind, they're just using their imagination. Plenty of time to grow up. I mean it isnt like they're cutting up small animals pretending to be a vet or something. That i would have a problem with. I think people need to chill out and not try to control their kids interests.

asickles98 · March 2017

I have pretty princesses and a handsome prince. That means they have to chew with their mouth closed and use their manners, they also have to take baths and brush their teeth. Flush the toilet and do their chores because those are all the things pretty princesses and a handsome prince do. Tomorrow I will have super scientist and those are the same things super scientist have to do. Friday will probably be superhero day and guess what those are exactly the same thing all superheroes day.

My girls have a lot of dress up outfit, pretty princess, descendent,scientist,superheroes, knights, pirates, explorers. I do not believe allowing them to play with anything set some up for failure. I believe parental expectations and reactions do that.

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