IF/Testing Check in Wk 3/6

wabash15 · March 2017

@travelingcouple hugs

eggplantface · March 2017

@TravelingCouple Honestly, though, about the 18-year-old, I feel sorry for her. She is going to struggle so hard, and her kids will too, because she's so irresponsible. And at this point I chalk that kind of fertility up to just being 18. I coulda gotten pregnant at 18 but I didn't want to.

And to an 18-year-old with two kids and no job:

As for your sister, does she ask you about your life? Or have you explained to her how you feel about her pregnancy? People who don't deal with IF have just NO idea what this is like.

TravelingCouple · March 2017

@eggplantface yeah sleep gives a lot of perspective and I do feel sorry for her too.

As for my sister, she only asks about what's going on with us when we're talking on the phone. No texts or anything. We used to talk all the time, text and phone calls. But it's been hard for me to talk to her since she got pregnant for reasons you all understand, but she doesn't. We had a very frank conversation about 3 weeks after she first told me and I explained why it's so hard for me, but she doesn't get it. She compares it to when I told her I was engaged and she wasn't yet but she "found a way to put her feelings aside and was happy for me" I'm younger than her so I imagine that did bring up some emotions for her and maybe this is me be selfish, but I think this is totally different. There's nothing I can equate IF to.

She and I are both trying to be sensitive to the other and it kills me and breaks my heart that I emotionally can't handle being involved in her first pregnancy right now, but I just can't. If I did, I'd be totally faking it and I don't think that's fair to either of us.

vintageandrea90 · March 2017

*TW*

@TravelingCouple So sorry you've been having a rough time. It's so hard. I was having a rough week too. It seems everyone around me is announcing their second in the time I've been trying for my first. When all your best friends have kids now and are always talking about mom things but you're left out because you're not. F*ck me....it sucks. My SIL got KU the first month of trying after being married for a year. DH and I have been married 6 years...so it's a sore spot for sure. She was talking about how she is dreading going back to work in June but is hoping she won't have to because she'll be KU again....In my mind I was like NO. Just, no. That's not fair.

hartmich · March 2017

Dear Diary post....

I just got into a bit of an argument with my mom. She knows 100% of everything we've gone through up to this point, but lately she's been a little much for me to handle... making comments like, "when is your next appointment, I can't wait" (she was glad when H's basketball team lost during their tournament because that meant the appointment wouldn't be pushed back) and saying she can't handle anymore of her friends announcing they're going to be grandparents (insert major eyeroll). I tried to hint that I need her to be patient because I'm going to be very impatient through all of this, and I need one of us to be the level-headed one... but she didn't get it. Because we have our appointment tomorrow with the RE and she got extremely upset when I told her I wouldn't be calling her that night to share what we learned, and I would just tell her the next day. She pulled a major guilt trip on me, and I just kind of lost it. And she's confused that I've shared so much up to this point, but what if I want to stop sharing? Or only share some things? That's my right, isn't it? I don't need this added pressure and I realize she is trying to be supportive, but it's just not.

laurad75 · March 2017

@hartmich Yikes. It's great that your mom is so supportive but it sounds like boundaries are an issue. You need to remind her that the goal of this process is not to make her a grandmother without hurting her feelings. Maybe just let her know that you are glad you can be open with her about the process but it's emotionally exhausting so you have to do it on your own terms - tell her that being understanding is the best way to be supportive.

zwink1 · March 2017

@hartmich, gosh that is tough. You put enough pressure on yourself through this process already, you don't need a parent adding to the pressure. Like @laurad75 said, at least she's supportive and wants to be involved, but there is such a thing as too much involvement.

[Deleted User] · March 2017

@hartmich *hugs* My mom and one of my sisters can be like this sometimes. They would always say shit like "I KNOW that someday you will have a baby" and like your mom they really thought that was being supportive. I think it's important to have a calm, level headed conversation and explain why what she's doing is only adding pressure to you, and what she could do instead to help you out.

leekat14 · March 2017

@hartmich I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. I think you tell her what you are comfortable with so it's not adding more stress. My mom knows a little and I give her info when I'm comfortable. DH's mom knows nothing because she would only add stress! It's what works for you but don't feel bad about what you can

hartmich · March 2017

@leekat14 @zwink1 @laurad75 @antoto Thanks ladies for the support. Sometimes I want to talk about it, sometimes I don't... (I'm not sure why that's so hard for her to understand). I'm afraid now she will act weird when I do want to talk. Ugh. Reminds me again that I'm so thankful for this board.

vintageandrea90 · March 2017

@hartmich that is really frustrating. It's your right to share whatever you want to share. My MIL can be like that, although she has a grand baby now to take the focus off me. When things like strollers and car seats go on sale she will call me and say "do you want me to pick it up for you? It's a good price....you'll need it eventually".....I'm like really? I mean thanks...yeah I hope so....but no.

wabash15 · March 2017

@hartmich hugs. I'm sorry she's trying to be supportive but just adding extra pressure. You may have to be blunt and tell her that you need time to process what happens at the appointment and that when you feel like you can talk about it you will. GL with the appointment! I'm rooting for you!

magnolia131 · March 2017

@hartmich PPs have had great advice. I'm sorry you are dealing with that. I've gotten some pressure from some members of my own family but they aren't aware of our IF struggles so it's a bit different. I'm a private person and I can understand how you'd feel about wanting space to process it. I think maybe the best approach would be to tell your mom this and keep it about you and not about her (I.e. saying "I just need a little space to work through some of this information" might be more effective than "I'm not comfortable talking to you about this today"). Hugs- I hope she is able to see where you're coming from. I know you don't need to be worried about appeasing her in the midst of everything else you're going through.

TravelingCouple · March 2017

@hartmich I'm sorry, that's really frustrating. I totally understand sometimes wanting to talk and sometimes not. I think protecting your heart in this however you can is key, like putting up boundaries where they need to be.

Bababatty · March 2017

@hartmich I'm sorry you're frustrated with your mom. My SIL is a bit like that. For our first three IUIs, she always wanted to know what was going on and if the cycle was successful. It was more painful and annoying than helpful, but she didn't know or understand that.

That said, I wanted to chime in with something my therapist said re: handling moms: while this obviously isn't as painful for her as it is for you, she's also hurting for you because you're hurting (I'm using a general "you," not referring to anyone in particular). Moms, despite their best efforts, do not always know the right thing to say, so you have to give them some guidance. It was really helpful when my therapist pointed that out, because it's easy to forget.

My own mom struggled with IF, and while she knows not to push me for info--because this was painful for her when she was trying--she has said things, like "just relax," which aren't helpful. But she's trying, and she's frustrated for me, and she doesn't know how to make it better and this is the best she can do.

tamalahoops · March 2017

@hartmich I agree with PPs. My own mom is very similar. She thinks that her power of positive thinking and prayer will get me pregnant. I've kept her in the loop about everything so she knows we have one boy embryo waiting to be transferred. She has taken to calling the frozen embryo by a given name, for example's sake think Johnny. She asks me about "Johnny" constantly. As if he is a living child. Like "how is Johnny doing? Do you have any new pictures?" I don't have any advice on how to deal because my older sister stepped in for me. My sister called me to ask why tf mom was calling the frozen embryo Johnny and asked if it was bothering me. When I told her yes she asked me a a bunch of questions about what I was comfortable with and how they could best support me. Then she drove to my mom's house and explained everything.

My sister became awesome because I called her sobbing crying one night and told her I needed her. I needed her to figure out how to help. I didn't know what kind of support I needed or how she could help so she googled it and found lots of infertility blogs and learned as much as she could. She is awesome and I love her so much.

hartmich · March 2017

@tamalahoops Can I borrow your sister?! She sounds AMAZING.

@bababatty I know that probably deep down this is the case and where this is stemming from, but she called me immature for saying I would tell her about the appointment whenever I was ready. I don't even see how that's immature at all, and on top of that, that's a shitty thing to say. It's clear that she thinks she has a "right" to know what's going on... unfortunately, I don't think she really heard anything I said about respecting what I want to do, even it doesn't make sense to her. It's just her personality. We get into disagreements about this kind of thing all the time - if it isn't her way/what she'd do, it's wrong. I"m almost considering sending her an email (because sometimes I find it easier to explain things in writing) but honestly, she's so set in her ways about stuff, it's probably not even worth the time and she can just think whatever the hell she wants.

laurad75 · March 2017

While @hartmich started this conversation with her mom anecdote, this is a great conversation for all of us. There are often many people in our lives that want to be supportive and that support can sometimes come with unwanted questions and curiosity. We don't want to push them away but also want to be clear when they are unintentionally hurting us.

tamalahoops · March 2017

I think we all need someone like my sister. But she wasn't always like that. She just did not understand in the beginning and thought I was just being my usual anxious, stressed self. I got a lot of "just relax" from her early on. Her exact words one time where "dude I feel like you'll never get pregnant because you're so highstrung. You need to just chill." It took me telling her that I needed her to step up to change.

wabash15 · March 2017

@kiki75 how did your appointment go today?

@laurad75 and @eggplantface GL starting stims tomorrow! I am rooting for both of you

zwink1 · March 2017

@tamalahoops I agree, it sounds like you have a fantastic sister. I completely understand why she did not get it in the beginning and I think it's great that she has been so willing to learn. That's love right there.

I think it speaks to how helpful having a buffer can be. My own sister is more hands off and lets me bring things up in my own time, but she's also more willing to call my mom out than I am. Last night we were discussing some of the more (truly unintentionally) insensitive things my mom has said to me (like comparing her jealousy over my uncle's relationship with my emotional reaction to IF...she literally said, "I think I get how you feel because I feel the same way about...") I was able to laugh about it with my sister, which was nice. She told me that she had a conversation with my mom about H's latest SA results, specifically the low morph and that my mom told her that she asked me if that meant our children would be disabled (she really did ask that). My sister called her out on how rude it was to say something like that to someone in my position. We've had our rough patches, but I love my sister.

Bababatty · March 2017

@hartmich Ugh I'm so sorry, that actually changes it quite a bit, I think. I'm sorry I missed that in your earlier post. You're definitely not being immature. Your response is reasonable and she's being unreasonable and selfish. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

LoveInDC · March 2017

**Lurking from WTO**

Please please flame me if I don't belong here, but I figured all you lovely ladies on here were the ones to ask.

History in the spoiler:

History: I started BCP when I was 15 to regulate periods/acne. I would have a heavy, painful, 2 week period every 3-5 months from the time I was 12. I am now 5 months and 3 cycles off BCP. First cycle was 42 days (didn't temp), second cycle was 26 days (didn't temp). My periods were 5 days after both with extreme pain on CD1. I'm now on CD50 with no sign of O (I finally temped this cycle). Expecting to need Provera next week.

My irregularities before BCP were written off as my body "developing." Now, it's my body "regulating off of BCPs." At what point do I get concerned I have never been regular off of BCP? My new OBGYN is Clomid happy. (She gave me information on IF and HSGs at our first appointment. She offered Clomid for any cycle I didn't ovulate on CD14 without any blood tests, U/S, or monitoring.) I want to see an RE when/if it's time, but I guess I can't rely on my OB to let me know when that would be.

Dr. Google is taking me to a dangerous, dark place here. Somebody please help me.

wabash15 · March 2017

@loveindc you were on BC for a long time and it can truly take months to regulate off BC. That being said because you seem to have a history of inconsistent cycles there may be something going on or it might just be "normal" variation. I had a room mate in college who had very painful CD1s but there was nothing wrong it was just her normal. I guess if it were me I would probably wait this cycle out (get a jump start if needed by CD60) and then see what happens on the next cycle (temping, OPK, CM). If you have another An-O cycle then I would request further diagnostics such as CD3 blood and an ultrasound. As for an RE I would probably hold off a few more months and see what your cycles continue to do. You are right to be wary of clomid. I'm sorry your having such a long frustrating cycle

eggplantface · March 2017

@LoveInDC Definitely don't take the Clomid from your OBGYN, go to an RE for that. Can your doc at least run some blood tests to check for any hormone imbalances?

LoveInDC · March 2017

Thanks @wabash15 for the support/response. I know there's a whole lot of gray area between 28 day regularity and IF. I'm just trying to find some sort of line so I can feel like I'm actually doing something and not just waiting by helplessly. Thanks for the advice on when to request BW and U/S. I'm hoping I don't get there, but if I do, at least I have a plan forward.

@eggplantface Based on what @wabash15 said, I'm going to request it if my cycles stay an-O or wonky. My OBGYN was very clear that the way she treats irregularity is a script for Clomid and maybe an HSG. If that doesn't work, then she sends you to an RE. She never mentioned testing, but I don't mind advocating for myself if that's what I need. They're located in a hospital, so they have the resources to run labs. I just feel like I'm going to have to be the one to bring it up.

eggplantface · March 2017

LoveInDC said:

@eggplantface Based on what @wabash15 said, I'm going to request it if my cycles stay an-O or wonky. My OBGYN was very clear that the way she treats irregularity is a script for Clomid and maybe an HSG. If that doesn't work, then she sends you to an RE. She never mentioned testing, but I don't mind advocating for myself if that's what I need. They're located in a hospital, so they have the resources to run labs. I just feel like I'm going to have to be the one to bring it up.

Oh no that's bad. All the Clomid in the world won't help if you have a blocked tube! And Clomid has a max of six cycles so you don't want to waste it. I honestly side eye a doc who prescribes Clomid without all the testing first. Do you need a referral from your doc to have the RE covered by insurance? If not, go directly to an RE. My gyno gave me orders for all the tests, but I went to an RE to have them do the tests. They're the experts in fertility; it's all they do all day erryday (couldn't resist). Do advocate for yourself and a blood test. It's not a heavy lift for an OBGYN in the grand scheme of things.

Everycol0r · March 2017

LoveInDC said:

Thanks @wabash15 for the support/response. I know there's a whole lot of gray area between 28 day regularity and IF. I'm just trying to find some sort of line so I can feel like I'm actually doing something and not just waiting by helplessly. Thanks for the advice on when to request BW and U/S. I'm hoping I don't get there, but if I do, at least I have a plan forward.

@eggplantface Based on what @wabash15 said, I'm going to request it if my cycles stay an-O or wonky. My OBGYN was very clear that the way she treats irregularity is a script for Clomid and maybe an HSG. If that doesn't work, then she sends you to an RE. She never mentioned testing, but I don't mind advocating for myself if that's what I need. They're located in a hospital, so they have the resources to run labs. I just feel like I'm going to have to be the one to bring it up.

No gray area really, a 28 day cycle is more abnormal than normal! I don't know why doctors still preach that. If you're only 5 month off BCP I think you are well within the time frame of your body trying to regulate. Amenorrhea isn't normal though and if I recall correctly, something is tickling the back of my mind but 3 or more cycles of annovulation/amenorrhea is a big red flag for something. But I don't know if an RE is going to be concerned or not since you are still not to terrible far off from when you stopped BCP.

I definitely wouldn't waste a clomid cycle on an OB. Especially since you have no idea what is wrong and clomid ONLY fixes ovulation issues. It doesn't fix blocked tubes, MFI, LP phase defect, thin lining, endometriosis, PCOS, hostile uterus... and there is always a chance of hypersimming on Clomid which could result in Octo-Mom or loosing your ovary. It's not worth it.

TravelingCouple · March 2017

@LoveInDC seconding @eggplantface not to see an OB for Clomid and definitely don't use it just to get regular. It's got a max usage and side effects that need to be monitored while taking it, so you don't want to be messing around with that.

I'm surprised your OB wouldn't offer Provera to help start a period if it's been 60+ days.

LoveInDC · March 2017

@eggplantface I do not need a referral to see a specialist (thank goodness). And because of the area I'm in, there are literally 3 RE offices in the same complex my OBGYN is in and 1 more down the street. If I can't get her to do the right thing and give me the tests over the meds, I definitely have options. I honestly think she'll be an excellent OBGYN, I just need to get pregnant first.

hartmich · March 2017

@loveindc just wanted to say, glad you posted in this thread -- the ladies in here know so much!! Don't ever hesitate to ask questions

LoveInDC · March 2017

Thanks @Everycol0r and @TravelingCouple for more answers and support.

I know that I'm still in that "could be normal" area for now. But at some point, all this weirdness put together for a longer period of time is going to be a red flag. I just want to be sure when to stop calling my worries BSC-ness and do something's about it.

I plan on requesting Provera next week, and if she look she at me sideways, I'm finding a new OBGYN.

LoveInDC · March 2017

Thanks @hartmich

You guys are so awesome (as you can see, I trust you more than my doctors at this point). I know we've had a lot of trouble the past few weeks drawing lines of who should be posting in what thread. I didn't want to offend anyone or have it be a situation of "this girl who is obviously fine decided to insert herself in the IF thread to rub it in." I'm truly so appreciative of you all.

magnolia131 · March 2017

@LoveInDC I took Clomid from an OBGYN before I knew any better. They also didn't do any other testing first and it was a waste of two Clomid cycles if you ask me because it wasn't until I found this board and went to an RE that we learned DH had a low count, not to mention the risks associated with taking it unmonitored.

While I don't think you need to jump the gun and assume the worst, I do think that if you continue to have AO cycles it is worth seeking some basic tests so that if you do get to the point of needing medication/treatment, you have an idea of what you're dealing with. I also went on BCP originally to regulate cycles. My first two cycles after coming off of it were relatively "normal" and then everything went to hell with my body. But every person is obviously different so it's hard to say this early whether you should call one AO cycle a red flag or not.

I hope you are able to get the Provera and move on to a new cycle. My old OB would give it if it'd been 60+ days without a cycle, but my current OB doesn't prescribe it to women TTC unless it's been or is near the 90 day mark, though I'm not sure of their reasons (thinned uterine lining possibly?). I know how frustrating those seemingly never ending cycles can be and I'm sorry that you're experiencing that.

Bababatty · March 2017

@LoveinDC I'm actually surprised that your doctor's first inclination for two AO cycles coming off BCP would be clomid and maybe an HSG. I had two AO cycles before we started trying, but when I had been off BCP for over a year, and my OB asked to see an ultrasound before doing anything else. She later offered an HSG when the u/s was normal, but I declined and all went back to normal. I seriously side-eye doctors whose first inclination is an intervention, such as a pill, without knowing anything about the underlying cause of the issue.

Everycol0r · March 2017

@LoveInDC Maybe you could ask your OB to test for PCOS?

LoveInDC · March 2017

Thanks @magnolia131 and @Bababatty for more advice and perspective!

@Everycol0r that was my rabbit hole today and it has me SS like crazy. I always wrote off my excess facial hair as part of being Italian. Same with the hair down my thighs (I thought that's how everyone's bikini lines went). I have the gray shadows under my arms and in the crook of my pelvis, but I have a darker skin tone, so maybe that's normal. My greasy skin just came with the Italian-ness and the acne comes from the grease. Looking at PCOS examples, I'm nowhere near some of those extremes. But with my cycle history, it's enough to get me curious. Definitely something to keep in mind if I start testing.

Everycol0r · March 2017

LoveInDC said:

Thanks @magnolia131 and @Bababatty for more advice and perspective!

@Everycol0r that was my rabbit hole today and it has me SS like crazy. I always wrote off my excess facial hair as part of being Italian. Same with the hair down my thighs (I thought that's how everyone's bikini lines went). I have the gray shadows under my arms and in the crook of my pelvis, but I have a darker skin tone, so maybe that's normal. My greasy skin just came with the Italian-ness and the acne comes from the grease. Looking at PCOS examples, I'm nowhere near some of those extremes. But with my cycle history, it's enough to get me curious. Definitely something to keep in mind if I start testing.

Take all those symptoms with a grain of salt. I have a lot of classic PCOS symptoms and no PCOS. Truly the only way to diagnose is labs/ultrasound. I believe there are 3 qualifiers: Cystic Ovaries, Indicative Labwork & Abnormal Cycles. You usually must have 2 of the 3 to get the diagnosis. But your OB should easily be able to do the diagnostic ultrasound and labwork to check. If you have cystic ovaries, Clomid is NOT FOR YOU.

magnolia131 · March 2017

@LoveInDC I agree with @Everycol0r about taking the external signs with a grain of salt. Conversely, I am of normal weight, have no excess body hair, and my U/S and bloodwork still revealed PCOS. I agree that an ultrasound is probably your best next step if you suspect you might have it.

LoveInDC · March 2017

@Everycol0r and @magnolia131 thanks for helping me jump off the BSC train for now. And again, thank you everyone for the advice and support. So moving forward:

Get Provera from my OB if/when I hit CD60.
Keep temping and monitoring CM. I'm adding OPKs and CP next cycle too.
If AO cycles return, get CD3 BW and U/S from OB (interpretation from an RE if necessary).
Anything comes up in the BW or U/S, see an RE.
If I start to O and keep regular cycles, or my BW and U/S look normal, hold out for month 12 before the RE.

I love you guys

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