To me, choosing a name because it may or may not reflect ancestry that you may or may not have seems silly and pretentious. Give your daughter your last name, and let her choose what she would prefer when she gets old.
I don't think it sounds funny. But, I don't see why you don't just give her your last name. So what if you're the first matriarch in the line? It's a tradition you are starting, so why not? Also, just from an 'everyday living' perspective, her having a different last name from you or the father could cause you some difficulty. I'm behind the general idea you are working from (daughters with mothers names). But. This whole 'my mom gave me some random-ass last name because our DNA came from Spain' thing is silly.
Quoting myself for a few different reasons.
Of everybody I know (and being a military spouse, I've lived a lot of places and thus know a lot of people from all stripes of life), I know only one other woman who is more about feminism than me, and a lot of other women who care about it as much as I do. And I "know" most of the women who have replied here are also feminists, based on the bent of their replies to many other previous threads and questions, which have fixed their "identities" in my mind. As much as you can "know" an online screen name. If you spent more time lurking this board, you would know what I mean.
Anyway, back to my point on my own brand of feminism.
1) when I said I was behind your idea in principle, this was not falsehood. I did not take my husbands last name. We were Team Green. While discussing names, it was decided that should we have a girl, she would receive my last name, and a boy would receive my dh's. Literally the same as you described when you opened your post. Andplusalso it was even my DH that suggested this, supporting me in my feminist ideals in a way that made me hormonal cry at the time. (Side note - and while this was a good idea, had it been a terrible one, I still would have given it consideration, as he is my partner in life and the raising of our child, including the choosing of a name)
2) I even came on this very board to discuss this last name arrangement, to get some perspective, as I did not know anyone else who had done this. The responses I got were varying between folks who thought it was weird, folks who thought it was improper, a few were like 'whatever'. But I was at least aware that those disagreeing with me were not trolling, they were simply stating their opinion, and I could view that as a sampling of the reactions I would run into in the actual world
3) we ended up having a son, who as per our agreement, has my husbands last name. And as I said in my previous post, my having a last name different from my son's has caused some difficulty. Nothing really obnoxious so far, but then, he is still a toddler. And part of this is also a regional quirk, living in family values territory as I do. But I'm aware that even if I lived in the most liberal of cities, I would still encounter these problems. My point here being that despite my feminism and my extreme dislike of my husbands last name (it's really a terrible one), I am considering changing my last name to my husbands, so as to make general life easier, so that my son and I have the same last name. I am literally right now living the consequences of not sharing your child's last name, and it's kind of a pain in the ass. And I'm sure it's going to get worse as he gets older.
4) This bit right here - " 'my mom gave me some random-ass last name because our DNA came from Spain' " is exactly what your daughter will have to explain each and every time someone asks her about her name. And trust me, they will ask. Maybe you won't bat an eye if someone said that you, but based on the sampling of humanity expressed here, it's hugely eyeroll worthy. If someone told me that IRL, I'd be like 'mmmmkayyyyy', and exchange a glance with my friend that looks something like this
5) following your logic, you may as well give her the last name Simian, since we all evolved from monkeys. Or, if you're religious (which your insistence on 'mitochondrial dna' seems to imply you're not, but hey, there's all kinds), you could use Mary, or Eve as PP have said.
Tl;Dr - I consider myself a feminist, I didnt take my dhs last name, I have experience living with a last name different than my child's, it kinda sucks. And your DNA idea makes no damned sense.
The first woman to whom we are all related lived in East Africa.
Just give her your last name and go ahead and start this new tradition. Unfortunately because of the misogyny of the human race there is NO surname that wasn't started by/for a man and giving your daughter a weird random name is just sort of obnoxious for her to have to deal with. We can't change the past but we can change the present and the future. Start your new tradition by giving your daughter your last name. I love that idea.
5) following your logic, you may as well give her the last name Simian, since we all evolved from monkeys. Or, if you're religious (which your insistence on 'mitochondrial dna' seems to imply you're not, but hey, there's all kinds), you could use Mary, or Eve as PP have said.
SNIP
Sorry if this makes me an asshole, but no we did not. We have a common ancestor with monkeys/apes, did not evolve from them.
Just give her your last name and go ahead and start this new tradition. Unfortunately because of the misogyny of the human race there is NO surname that wasn't started by/for a man and giving your daughter a weird random name is just sort of obnoxious for her to have to deal with. We can't change the past but we can change the present and the future. Start your new tradition by giving your daughter your last name. I love that idea.
^^^ this
OP: I have a friend who changed her last name to a new "made up" name because she didn't want her name associated with her abusive father. Her son and daughter both have her "new" name rather than their fathers' last names (two different men). I'm not going to lie, though, my friend has received far more criticism for "making up" her last name (and she's ultra new agey and lives in a pretty liberal area) than for not giving her kids' their dads' names.
It might make the most logistical sense to simply give your daughter your last name and begin that new tradition. Or, if you really want to break from patriarchal naming practices, change your name to the new one as well (being aware of / regardless of the social criticism you're apt to receive).
Also, FWIW, my mom didn't change her last name, I have my dad's last name, and having a different last name than one parent really isn't that big of a deal. In the age of so much family diversity and blended families, people/institutions are getting much better at dealing with the fact that not all family members always share last names.
TTC #1 --- BFP #1 5/15, loss at 5 weeks --- BFP #2 12/15, loss at 4+3 --- RE testing 3/16 normal, still trying for our rainbow
Hi OP, I think it's worth noting that all of us have written long, thought out posts. We aren't trolling. It sounds like most of us consider us feminists and are trying to think through this in a real way. I like the above posters idea that if you truly are against patriarchal names then I think you should change you and your child's last name at the same time. Otherwise you are putting that philosophy on her without you yourself doing it. To me it's no different than when a person names their kid "Reagan" or "Ayn" or other first names that connote a philosophy or political preference. It comes across as selfish and presumes that your kid will agree with that philosophy. If you want your daughter to have free will and be empowered as a female, a name change alone won't do that. You, as a parent, will teach her that, and that's personally what I would focus on.
5) following your logic, you may as well give her the last name Simian, since we all evolved from monkeys. Or, if you're religious (which your insistence on 'mitochondrial dna' seems to imply you're not, but hey, there's all kinds), you could use Mary, or Eve as PP have said.
SNIP
Sorry if this makes me an asshole, but no we did not. We have a common ancestor with monkeys/apes, did not evolve from them.
You disagree with me?!? Troll!!
J/K. I get your point tho, and I think you get what I was trying to drive at
ETA you are probably correct, as a degree in evolutionary biology I do not have
I hope that none of you avoid making feminist strides in your life because it might be hard or people might be rude about it.
I hope that you don't avoid making choices for your children because they might not agree with you later.
I hope that you teach your daughters that they can do and be whatever the smeg they want, no matter what anyone says.
I hope that you don't say words like 'random-ass' about people's decisions to their faces and expect them not to call you on your rudeness.
I hope that you realize that jumping all over someone who disagrees with you should never happen at a party, a support group... that this kind of thing happens at a playground, and we should teach our daughters not to do it. A lot of you need to go back, read your comments out loud, and see whether you'd feel comfortable making them to someone at, say, a business meeting. 'All my friends were doing it' is not a good reason to behave rudely on the Internet.
I hope that none of you avoid making feminist strides in your life because it might be hard or people might be rude about it.
I hope that you don't avoid making choices for your children because they might not agree with you later.
I hope that you teach your daughters that they can do and be whatever the smeg they want, no matter what anyone says.
I hope that you don't say words like 'random-ass' about people's decisions to their faces and expect them not to call you on your rudeness.
I hope that you realize that jumping all over someone who disagrees with you should never happen at a party, a support group... that this kind of thing happens at a playground, and we should teach our daughters not to do it. A lot of you need to go back, read your comments out loud, and see whether you'd feel comfortable making them to someone at, say, a business meeting. 'All my friends were doing it' is not a good reason to behave rudely on the Internet.
Oh good lord.
Your reasoning for choosing a random Spanish first name to use as a last name is specious. That doesn't make people rude, that makes you blinded by your own biases.
As someone known for going off on the importance of names because of how they can enforce societal double standards regarding gender norms, you are missing the forest for the trees. Surnames are patriarchal. No one is refuting that, but taking a random first name to use as a given name that your possible daughter will share with NOBODY ELSE isn't stickin the middle finger to the patriarchy.
And you need to learn the difference between an "attack" and a critique. Your claims of "bullying " is nothing more than tone policing because you disagree with the responses you've been getting.
I hope that none of you avoid making feminist strides in your life because it might be hard or people might be rude about it.
I hope that you don't avoid making choices for your children because they might not agree with you later.
I hope that you teach your daughters that they can do and be whatever the smeg they want, no matter what anyone says.
I hope that you don't say words like 'random-ass' about people's decisions to their faces and expect them not to call you on your rudeness.
I hope that you realize that jumping all over someone who disagrees with you should never happen at a party, a support group... that this kind of thing happens at a playground, and we should teach our daughters not to do it. A lot of you need to go back, read your comments out loud, and see whether you'd feel comfortable making them to someone at, say, a business meeting. 'All my friends were doing it' is not a good reason to behave rudely on the Internet.
Good morning, OP.
As a feminist, aren't you supposed to encourage us women to speak our minds, without fear that some random ass person at a party follows our ideals or not? Are we not joyfully fighting against the culture of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" that is imposed upon women? If we were men, would we not be encouraged to speak up against something that is a bad idea? Should we not encourage our daughters to speak up for those who are being given the short end of a stick because of someone else's twisted ideals? Should we keep our opinions to ourselves, smother ourselves, because we know that our message will not be received well?
My bad. I thought we were talking about female empowerment.
OP you are preaching the the choir about the patriarchal horse shit that is surname traditions. We get it. We aren't critiquing that. We are critiquing your specific choice to give your daughter a last name that is based off the (uncertain) belief that some of your ancestors could potentially at one time have lived in Spain. THAT is actually totally random. You know what is NOT random? Having your daughter tell people that she shares a last name with her mother and that someday she will do the same with her own daughter, should she choose to have one. That's purposefully, intelligent, and I do believe it does something to promote change.
This is obviously your kid and you can do whatever tickles your fancy. You asked for our opinions and we are giving it.
It's clear that you were not interested in opinions that conflict with yours, OP, and were only trying to stir the pot here, so I'll refrain from stating mine. Name your kid whatever you want, who cares.
It seems that many of you haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread, so I'll reiterate that giving my daughter my father's last name reinforces patriarchy in the same way as does giving her her father's last name. I don't mind if you disagree with me. I posted here to find out what objections I might have missed - but I won't let rude phrasing of those opinions slide without saying something.
It seems that many of you haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread, so I'll reiterate that giving my daughter my father's last name reinforces patriarchy in the same way as does giving her her father's last name. I don't mind if you disagree with me. I posted here to find out what objections I might have missed - but I won't let rude phrasing of those opinions slide without saying something.
Pretty sure people realize that. But it is still YOUR name too. You seem to have issues with having been given your father's name. Why don't you change your name and then give it to your daughter too? It's really not that hard to change your name, especially if it's something you feel so strongly about.
I hope that you realize that jumping all over someone who disagrees with you should never happen at a party, a support group... that this kind of thing happens at a playground, and we should teach our daughters not to do it. A lot of you need to go back, read your comments out loud, and see whether you'd feel comfortable making them to someone at, say, a business meeting. 'All my friends were doing it' is not a good reason to behave rudely on the Internet.
I hope YOU realize how hypocritical this statement is as you yourself have been the picture of jumping all over people who do not agree with you.
As as for the rest, hope all you want. I personally am not losing any sleep over what you think about me, my feminist ideals or how I raise my children (because how we raise boys is just important as how we raise girls in combatting sexism a and fighting the patriarchy).
It seems that many of you haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread, so I'll reiterate that giving my daughter my father's last name reinforces patriarchy in the same way as does giving her her father's last name. I don't mind if you disagree with me. I posted here to find out what objections I might have missed - but I won't let rude phrasing of those opinions slide without saying something.
Really? Because that wasn't how you stated your post. Or your several responses.
I think you received plenty of objections that you missed. You wanted us to say, "Brilliant! Amazing! Here's your feminist participation trophy! I like Spanish tooooo!" And instead, you got two pages of well stated objections that upset you. That sucks. But it doesn't make us trolls, rude, or bullies.
And yes, everything here, including eye rolls, happens in a business meeting. Minus the part where you get to freak out on people after soliciting their feedback. That doesn't get to happen.
Re: OPS for a girl?
https://genomesunzipped.org/2012/12/exaggerations-and-errors-in-the-promotion-of-genetic-ancestry-testing.php
https://qz.com/765879/23andme-has-a-race-problem-when-it-comes-to-ancestry-reports-for-non-whites/
To me, choosing a name because it may or may not reflect ancestry that you may or may not have seems silly and pretentious. Give your daughter your last name, and let her choose what she would prefer when she gets old.
Of everybody I know (and being a military spouse, I've lived a lot of places and thus know a lot of people from all stripes of life), I know only one other woman who is more about feminism than me, and a lot of other women who care about it as much as I do. And I "know" most of the women who have replied here are also feminists, based on the bent of their replies to many other previous threads and questions, which have fixed their "identities" in my mind. As much as you can "know" an online screen name. If you spent more time lurking this board, you would know what I mean.
Anyway, back to my point on my own brand of feminism.
1) when I said I was behind your idea in principle, this was not falsehood. I did not take my husbands last name. We were Team Green. While discussing names, it was decided that should we have a girl, she would receive my last name, and a boy would receive my dh's. Literally the same as you described when you opened your post. Andplusalso it was even my DH that suggested this, supporting me in my feminist ideals in a way that made me hormonal cry at the time. (Side note - and while this was a good idea, had it been a terrible one, I still would have given it consideration, as he is my partner in life and the raising of our child, including the choosing of a name)
2) I even came on this very board to discuss this last name arrangement, to get some perspective, as I did not know anyone else who had done this. The responses I got were varying between folks who thought it was weird, folks who thought it was improper, a few were like 'whatever'. But I was at least aware that those disagreeing with me were not trolling, they were simply stating their opinion, and I could view that as a sampling of the reactions I would run into in the actual world
3) we ended up having a son, who as per our agreement, has my husbands last name. And as I said in my previous post, my having a last name different from my son's has caused some difficulty. Nothing really obnoxious so far, but then, he is still a toddler. And part of this is also a regional quirk, living in family values territory as I do. But I'm aware that even if I lived in the most liberal of cities, I would still encounter these problems. My point here being that despite my feminism and my extreme dislike of my husbands last name (it's really a terrible one), I am considering changing my last name to my husbands, so as to make general life easier, so that my son and I have the same last name. I am literally right now living the consequences of not sharing your child's last name, and it's kind of a pain in the ass. And I'm sure it's going to get worse as he gets older.
4) This bit right here - " 'my mom gave me some random-ass last name because our DNA came from Spain' " is exactly what your daughter will have to explain each and every time someone asks her about her name. And trust me, they will ask. Maybe you won't bat an eye if someone said that you, but based on the sampling of humanity expressed here, it's hugely eyeroll worthy. If someone told me that IRL, I'd be like 'mmmmkayyyyy', and exchange a glance with my friend that looks something like this
5) following your logic, you may as well give her the last name Simian, since we all evolved from monkeys. Or, if you're religious (which your insistence on 'mitochondrial dna' seems to imply you're not, but hey, there's all kinds), you could use Mary, or Eve as PP have said.
Tl;Dr - I consider myself a feminist, I didnt take my dhs last name, I have experience living with a last name different than my child's, it kinda sucks. And your DNA idea makes no damned sense.
The first woman to whom we are all related lived in East Africa.
Just give her your last name and go ahead and start this new tradition. Unfortunately because of the misogyny of the human race there is NO surname that wasn't started by/for a man and giving your daughter a weird random name is just sort of obnoxious for her to have to deal with. We can't change the past but we can change the present and the future. Start your new tradition by giving your daughter your last name. I love that idea.
OP: I have a friend who changed her last name to a new "made up" name because she didn't want her name associated with her abusive father. Her son and daughter both have her "new" name rather than their fathers' last names (two different men). I'm not going to lie, though, my friend has received far more criticism for "making up" her last name (and she's ultra new agey and lives in a pretty liberal area) than for not giving her kids' their dads' names.
It might make the most logistical sense to simply give your daughter your last name and begin that new tradition. Or, if you really want to break from patriarchal naming practices, change your name to the new one as well (being aware of / regardless of the social criticism you're apt to receive).
Also, FWIW, my mom didn't change her last name, I have my dad's last name, and having a different last name than one parent really isn't that big of a deal. In the age of so much family diversity and blended families, people/institutions are getting much better at dealing with the fact that not all family members always share last names.
J/K. I get your point tho, and I think you get what I was trying to drive at
ETA you are probably correct, as a degree in evolutionary biology I do not have
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http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/396b04
I hope that none of you avoid making feminist strides in your life because it might be hard or people might be rude about it.
I hope that you don't avoid making choices for your children because they might not agree with you later.
I hope that you teach your daughters that they can do and be whatever the smeg they want, no matter what anyone says.
I hope that you don't say words like 'random-ass' about people's decisions to their faces and expect them not to call you on your rudeness.
I hope that you realize that jumping all over someone who disagrees with you should never happen at a party, a support group... that this kind of thing happens at a playground, and we should teach our daughters not to do it. A lot of you need to go back, read your comments out loud, and see whether you'd feel comfortable making them to someone at, say, a business meeting. 'All my friends were doing it' is not a good reason to behave rudely on the Internet.
Your reasoning for choosing a random Spanish first name to use as a last name is specious. That doesn't make people rude, that makes you blinded by your own biases.
As someone known for going off on the importance of names because of how they can enforce societal double standards regarding gender norms, you are missing the forest for the trees. Surnames are patriarchal. No one is refuting that, but taking a random first name to use as a given name that your possible daughter will share with NOBODY ELSE isn't stickin the middle finger to the patriarchy.
And you need to learn the difference between an "attack" and a critique. Your claims of "bullying " is nothing more than tone policing because you disagree with the responses you've been getting.
As a feminist, aren't you supposed to encourage us women to speak our minds, without fear that some random ass person at a party follows our ideals or not? Are we not joyfully fighting against the culture of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" that is imposed upon women? If we were men, would we not be encouraged to speak up against something that is a bad idea? Should we not encourage our daughters to speak up for those who are being given the short end of a stick because of someone else's twisted ideals? Should we keep our opinions to ourselves, smother ourselves, because we know that our message will not be received well?
My bad. I thought we were talking about female empowerment.
This is obviously your kid and you can do whatever tickles your fancy. You asked for our opinions and we are giving it.
You do you, OP.
As as for the rest, hope all you want. I personally am not losing any sleep over what you think about me, my feminist ideals or how I raise my children (because how we raise boys is just important as how we raise girls in combatting sexism a and fighting the patriarchy).
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I think you received plenty of objections that you missed. You wanted us to say, "Brilliant! Amazing! Here's your feminist participation trophy! I like Spanish tooooo!" And instead, you got two pages of well stated objections that upset you. That sucks. But it doesn't make us trolls, rude, or bullies.
And yes, everything here, including eye rolls, happens in a business meeting. Minus the part where you get to freak out on people after soliciting their feedback. That doesn't get to happen.
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