So disgusted...

eightynine · July 2016

cassloumy said:

@Cricket Bug I don't think it's fair to compare the two. They're like a terrible apple and an awful orange.

I'm a therapist and social worker and I understand Ashts response. You have to try to understand that we are educated and trained to provide empathy and an unconditional listening ear for our clients. If we responded judmentally, we'd get NOWHERE wirh clients, I promise you that. It doesn't mean we don't see the tragedy and injustice in situations like this, like for the baby. But you cannot turn back time - professionally we must meet people where they are, in order to be of help moving forward. Try to understand that non judgmental POViews are crucial for us, or we'd be able to help no one. And I work in child welfare and have made plenty of CPS calls and encountered plenty of really difficult situations. There's generally severe trauma in moms back ground when they're doing things like this.

Judging such women causes more shame/trauma/low self esteem and just ensures problems will continue. So this is where we're coming from as social workers/therapists.

SuperFudge00 · July 2016

Mom can do what she wants while using birth control. There, I said it.

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

TheTamedShrew said:

asht said:

Without knowing the whole situation of things there really isn't any room to judge or make assumptions. It's said for the baby yes but who knows what is going on with that mother.

This was your original post. Saying "there isn't any room to judge or make assumptions" sounds like you are reprimanding others for judging the situation. It doesn't say "my personal opinion" or "that's really terrible, I wish I could get help for that mother and child." You also implied that we were all "hateful and bitter" because we weren't being "compassionate and understanding" like you. You also threw your career into the mix, as if that gives you some kind of higher insight or perspective on this situation. It doesn't, nor does it change the fact that there is an innocent child being put at risk, but good job back pedaling and then running away from the discussion. I guess you realized just how high that horse was.

asht · July 2016

So then let's switch it up.... Let's take this mother out and sub in a typical pregnant person like you or I. Say this person suffers from things such as headaches or other issues and takes meds for it. The common med for headaches that is used in pregnancy is/contains a narcotic. If you go to the ER, one of the common meds used isn't even proven safe for pregnancy.

Or in other issues painkillers are use. What's every bodies take on that? While different levels of drugs, they can all harm a fetus/baby and can kill a person if used wrong. What about alcohol? I have seen posts on here of people saying they have had a glass or two of wine.... Alcohol, depending on what studies you look at is worse than pot.

All all situations are a choice, either suffer through whatever the issues are or take the meds. If a person opts for the narcotic to stop a headache is it right or wrong?

Bibliobebe · July 2016

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/38/n3qkj7es8fqe.jpg

RG1 · July 2016

I've taken my fair share of "narcotics" this pregnancy due to having appendicitis, and was even put under general anesthetic. I trusted that the medical professionals were giving me medication that was safe for me in pregnancy, since we do have a system of classifying drugs based on the best scientific evidence we have available at this time. Also, I didn't really have a choice on whether or not I got my appendix out and I sure as hell wasn't going to do it awake. I highly doubt those same medical professionals would have prescribed me majiuana or whatever other drugs you're referring to in your post, since, you know, they're HARMFUL. I'm curious about this common med that is given in ER (that is a very general statement btw, there are many hospitals in the world) that "isn't even proven safe".

ETA: your moral/ethical "dilemma" didn't even deserve my time and effort in a response because it's so ridiculous to equate the ethics of an individual taking medication for a headache (perhaps one pill? Maybe 2?) and ongoing drug use in pregnancy. But I responded anyways. FEEDING THE TROLL.

fireflygirl12 · July 2016

Illegal drugs aside, there is no way you're going to convince me that quitting smoking cigarettes during pregnancy would have a worse outcome than continuing to smoke. It's 100% being selfish.

ruemcclanahan · July 2016

Seriously @fireflygirl12.
I admitted to being a smoker and having to quit when i found out I was pregnant.
I was a heavy smoker- 1 pack a day or more. I kicked it in a day and after 3 days stopped feeling physical withdrawal.
There is no reason to keep smoking while pregnant. None.
So I will totally judge and know that I'm not being hateful or bitter.

SuperFudge00 · July 2016

asht said:

So then let's switch it up.... Let's take this mother out and sub in a typical pregnant person like you or I. Say this person suffers from things such as headaches or other issues and takes meds for it. The common med for headaches that is used in pregnancy is/contains a narcotic. If you go to the ER, one of the common meds used isn't even proven safe for pregnancy.

Or in other issues painkillers are use. What's every bodies take on that? While different levels of drugs, they can all harm a fetus/baby and can kill a person if used wrong. What about alcohol? I have seen posts on here of people saying they have had a glass or two of wine.... Alcohol, depending on what studies you look at is worse than pot.

All all situations are a choice, either suffer through whatever the issues are or take the meds. If a person opts for the narcotic to stop a headache is it right or wrong?

There are no medical benefits to cigarettes and unless she's terminally ill or suffering from chemo agent-induced nausea, marijuana is not medicinal either. This is so far from comparable.

fireflygirl12 · July 2016

Yes, exactly @megan324! Quitting smoking is HARD, but it's something you do in the best interest of your child. Guess what, there's a lot of other hard stuff you'll do over the next 18yrs out of their best interest. It's called putting your kid's needs above your own and starts when you're pregnant.

fireflygirl12 · July 2016

And yes, I get that when you're a therapist, you don't tell your client straight up that they're being a flipping idiot because you are working with them to improve their situation from a psychological side. As a general member of society or as a friend/family member, you don't just condone the behavior and pretend like nothing is happening because "poor misunderstood person". People need to be told when they are making bad decisions.

fireflygirl12 · July 2016

There's some cost/benefit analysis involved anytime your doctor prescribes you meds during pregnancy. Benefits of quitting illegal substance abuse far outweigh withdrawal symptoms. Besides, they have things like Methodone to help ease the transition.

fireflygirl12 · July 2016

Also adding that there are several states that require your OB to test for drug use during pregnancy, and if positive, it's grounds for child welfare to get involved.

diagonalley · July 2016

fireflygirl12 said:

Also adding that there are several states that require your OB to test for drug use during pregnancy, and if positive, it's grounds for child welfare to get involved.

That would require prenatal care and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say most people that would fall in that category of using probably are not concerned about their monthly/biweekly/weekly appointments and don't even see a doctor until in labor.

MojieJo · July 2016

@SuperFudge00 There actually are reasons other than those you've mentioned (terminal illness and chemo-induced nausea) for marijuana to be used/prescribed medicinally, just FYI.

It varies from state to state in the US, but virtually every state also includes conditions that are chronic and incapacitating but not necessarily fatal or related to the use of chemotherapy medications.

Just ducking my head in to say that because I dislike misinformation (although I'm sure it was unintentional), even if I agree with the sentiment behind what's being said.

SuperFudge00 · July 2016

MojieJo said:

@SuperFudge00 There actually are reasons other than those you've mentioned (terminal illness and chemo-induced nausea) for marijuana to be used/prescribed medicinally, just FYI.

It varies from state to state in the US, but virtually every state also includes conditions that are chronic and incapacitating but not necessarily fatal or related to the use of chemotherapy medications.

Just ducking my head in to say that because I dislike misinformation (although I'm sure it was unintentional), even if I agree with the sentiment behind what's being said.

I couldn't list all of the actual uses, but there are many more excuses for using marijuana. But you are correct.

Shiva14 · July 2016

Wowza, well this thread took an unexpected turn. I really don't have anything to add that hasn't been said, but I wanted to come by with some love tits. Completely baffled that anyone would think that what this "mother" is doing might be the best thing for the baby. What the actual f....

Regarding alcohol use during pregnancy I do remember who posted that and that may not be the direction you want to take this in considering who is supporting you. Then again, I guess it won't matter since neither of you would ever judge another person for anything they did during pregnancy ever.

KimmySchmidt · July 2016

diagonalley said:

fireflygirl12 said:

Also adding that there are several states that require your OB to test for drug use during pregnancy, and if positive, it's grounds for child welfare to get involved.

That would require prenatal care and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say most people that would fall in that category of using probably are not concerned about their monthly/biweekly/weekly appointments and don't even see a doctor until in labor.

They can test the mother and/or child at the delivery, assuming of course, that even a drug addicted mother who is avoiding prenatal care would have the sense to get her ass to the hospital.

ETA:Although, to bring it back around, even if this hypothetical woman gave birth behind a dumpster and left the baby there, WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE?! WE DON'T KNOW HER SITUATION! IT COULD BE WHAT'S BEST FOR THE BABY!

(eye roll)

asht · July 2016

RG1 said:

I've taken my fair share of "narcotics" this pregnancy due to having appendicitis, and was even put under general anesthetic. I trusted that the medical professionals were giving me medication that was safe for me in pregnancy, since we do have a system of classifying drugs based on the best scientific evidence we have available at this time. Also, I didn't really have a choice on whether or not I got my appendix out and I sure as hell wasn't going to do it awake. I highly doubt those same medical professionals would have prescribed me majiuana or whatever other drugs you're referring to in your post, since, you know, they're HARMFUL. I'm curious about this common med that is given in ER (that is a very general statement btw, there are many hospitals in the world) that "isn't even proven safe".

ETA: your moral/ethical "dilemma" didn't even deserve my time and effort in a response because it's so ridiculous to equate the ethics of an individual taking medication for a headache (perhaps one pill? Maybe 2?) and ongoing drug use in pregnancy. But I responded anyways. FEEDING THE TROLL.

I'll look for my ER discharge papers to find it. I was given it in the ER for something but the common use is for nausea. I wasn't thrilled after my research nor was my ob doc after I told her what it was that they gave me especially considering there were other options.

That at is part of my point. There are cases where people have to take stuff because the risk of not is greater then if you do and that isn't a judgement even though it's still a choice. It's a personal choice.

The reality is babies can be born with issues even if the mother is on the up and up and there will be judgement because that is just how society is as a whole. Then typical feel crappy after the fact.

For the record I don't believe in the use of anything in pregnancy and in the case of the original post I would be lighting up any phone I could including cps until somebody listened. I think a lot of people don't know they can make cps reports and it's not just tied to certain professions. People can even make reports on themselves.

From a working stand point, again not that I agree with either, work with a child that was born addicted to drugs is far easier then one that has FASD. In my opinion the alcohol does far more damage. That said I'm going to go out on a limb and say if somebody is using drugs they probably aren't going to have an issue drinking

jennlynn777 · July 2016

And what I see is a poster throwing someone else's business out in the open for the world to judge. I do NOT condone any behaviors like this and it makes me just as mad as you other ladies that a innocent child has to be born under these circumstances but what was the point of this thread??? To get our emotions high and frustrated?? I don't know about all of you but unless it directly relates to MY situation I'm not going to be spreading other women's problems on social media. That is the problem with women. We think we are just dicussing and showing empathy but what we are really just doing is allowing this poster to gossip. Life sucks we get that. Some women should not be aloud to procreate until they can prove to society they can handle it. BUT I'm still not ok with threads that don't relate directly to the person posting them. Very catty of the original poster.

TheTamedShrew · July 2016

jennlynn777 said:

And what I see is a poster throwing someone else's business out in the open for the world to judge. I do NOT condone any behaviors like this and it makes me just as mad as you other ladies that a innocent child has to be born under these circumstances but what was the point of this thread??? To get our emotions high and frustrated?? I don't know about all of you but unless it directly relates to MY situation I'm not going to be spreading other women's problems on social media. That is the problem with women. We think we are just dicussing and showing empathy but what we are really just doing is allowing this poster to gossip. Life sucks we get that. Some women should not be aloud to procreate until they can prove to society they can handle it. BUT I'm still not ok with threads that don't relate directly to the person posting them. Very catty of the original poster.

Oh look, here comes the board police!

Good grief, can we not?? OP didn't give out this person's name or any personal info. We have all shared stories discussing family members/friends/personal situations. This is not new. Quite frankly with all the screaming into a crowd (Facebook) about what's wrong with the world, it's nice to have a place to anonymously discuss and commiserate about what's going on in our lives. Call it gossip, call it judgment, but basically all that happened here is that people said "that's sad and wrong" about something that was sad and wrong. Sorry, but it doesn't matter what you're "ok with" and you don't get to scold everyone else on the board for posting what they want. Or you could, but you just look obnoxious and self-righteous. If this discussion is so appalling and beneath you, then the best thing for you to do is not participate in it, otherwise your panties are just going to get more twisted.

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