CIO success!

shaina925 · January 2016

I don't know what it was, but the day my son turned 4 months he started sleeping SO much better! He went from waking up numerous times a night to only waking up between 4/5am to eat. I started CIO and it worked really, really well. So far he hasn't cried more than 19 minutes. It's usually less than 5. Anyone else have success with CIO?

yellow1daisy · January 2016

Letting a 4 month old cry for 19 minutes is cruel.

backatac · January 2016

We did!!! At two months my ped was telling us to let him cry so he can figure out how to put himself to sleep but we waited til 4. Took three nights! We used the Ferber method so you go in after three minutes then 5 minute then 10 - then every 10 til they fall asleep. The first night took and hour, the second night took 40 minutes, the third night 30 minutes and fourth night no tears at all - now I put him down drowsy and he self soothes to sleep. It's incredible!

jlawson23 · January 2016

Yeah kudos to those that have heart to use the cry it out method. Not happening at my house. My sleep is not that important.

cmlsu · January 2016

I had great success with it also. Glad you found something that worked for you!

aharders89 · January 2016

We do more of a "fuss it out" drowsy-but-awake method. I hold her for a few minutes until she gets extremely sleepy, then put her down. She usually does wake back up and sometimes fusses, but she has never gotten to a full on cry. She usually does a few little wimpers and wants her paci put back in. She's actually done so much better than I thought, and honestly the fussing noises don't bother me at all. But if she ever got to a full on cry I wouldn't be able to stand it. It usually takes her about 5-10 minutes to fall asleep that way.

ETA- It doesn't take 5-10 minutes of fussing or crying, it's usually 5-10 minutes with a few wimpers when she spits her paci out. I put it back in and pat her a few times and walk out.

Also- There are studies on literally every subject and you're going to get opinions regarding EVERYTHING about your child and your choices. But you do whatever works for your family. I'm sure your LO is happy, healthy, and cared for and if CIO worked for you guys, keep on with it!

jlemons-2 · January 2016

After reading lots of information on this, I could never do this to my four month old baby. It's a whole different story when they are older but I can't imagine doing something so harsh to my little girl

kanga915 · January 2016

yellow1daisy said:

Letting a 4 month old cry for 19 minutes is cruel.

This. And by "successful" do you mean your baby eventually cried itself to sleep because it thought it was abandoned? That's what CIO does. Babies this age don't understand object permanence. It's cruel to leave them alone to scream in distress. Google "babywise" and you'll see studies that compare it to neglect.

jlemons-2 · January 2016

kanga915 said:

yellow1daisy said:

Letting a 4 month old cry for 19 minutes is cruel.

This. And by "successful" do you mean your baby eventually cried itself to sleep because it thought it was abandoned? That's what CIO does. Babies this age don't understand object permanence. It's cruel to leave them alone to scream in distress. Google "babywise" and you'll see studies that compare it to neglect.

This is why it hurts my heart to see that so many people still use CIO. I thought it was an antiquated practice.

ElleMF728 · January 2016

It really isn't age appropriate for our LOs. Right now we have so many other options available to us and our babies aren't really ready to self soothe in a lot of cases.

I'm not a CIO hater, I can imagine scenarios in which I might find it necessary but at this point DS2 is still so young and crying is his only way to communicate his needs.

KissMeImScottish · January 2016

While I've never done Cry It Out as a method of sleep training, I have found it necessary on occasion (two specific times that I can pinpoint) to put my son down in his crib and walk away. Both of the times I'm thinking about, it took longer than counting to ten to calm myself down. Both of those times, my husband has been out to sea for extended periods of time and I've been awake for 22 hours. When I am in single parent mode, which, as a military wife, I am in for about half the year, there are times that I need to step away. Both of these times, it has been a middle of the night wake up, usually around 12:30 at night, and I have nursed him, changed him, rocked him, given him gripe water, massaged his belly, tried every trick in the book...and he's still SHRIEKING two hours later. I may be selfish, but when 2:30 rolls around, I haven't slept through the night in three weeks, my husband is out to sea, I'm 6000 miles away from any family, I need to be up at 6:00, and I have a pounding headache from him screaming right in my ear for over 2 hours, I reach a breaking point. When I get to that point, where I'm ANGRY at my baby and start wanting to scream at him to shut up and his screaming is just generating apathy rather than concern or empathy from me, that's when I put him down in his crib and let him scream. It may sound cruel to some people, but for me, it's the only way for me to keep any shred of my sanity. He is fed, he is clean and dry, he is warm enough and in a safe space where he is both familiar with his surroundings and is not able to hurt himself. I never, ever want to resent my child, and I don't ever want to be angry at him for something he has no control over yet. It is healthier for both of us, without a partner to tag out with, for me to walk away. And yes, that time that I've needed to cool down has run about 30 minutes. He has always fallen asleep in that time, and he is always all smiles when I come back in the room either at the next wake up or in the morning, with renewed patience. While it's not sleep training, it is a form of cry it out, but for some people, it actually is the healthier option for both parties on occasion.

yellow1daisy · January 2016

It's what you sign up for when you have a child. You might be tired but our bodies are capable of dealing with the fatigue. A 4 month old does not cry for no reason. You may think they have all they need. But they wouldn't be crying if they did. Even if what they need is help falling asleep.

Sometimes it is better to put the baby down and walk away if you sense yourself losing control. But as a method of sleep training it is cruel. You think it's working because the baby acts fine and falls asleep. You think they're learning independence when they really just learn to give up on you. You could be ruining how they form attachments as adults.

And I'm talking strictly infants. I wouldn't recommend CIO at any age but using it on infants is especially awful and just lazy parenting.

yellow1daisy · January 2016

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

ElleMF728 · January 2016

@ktewart you did the right thing. Lord knows, I've has to do that before. I used to put DS1 in his crib and step out to the porch to compose myself. You shouldn't feel bad, you should feel proud that you are able to read signs that you are reaching your breaking point.

I've read the studies and several critiques that posed equally valid IMO questions about methodology and other problems with the study. While I agree that CIO is not appropriate for infants, I'm not sure the research supports all of its drastic conclusions when the criticisms are taken into account.

I also don't agree that it's lazy parenting, I just think it's misguided and often results from our society's unrealistic expectations of infant sleep. The first questions I tend to get when people ask about my son is "does he STTN?". As if that is the measure of a good baby, or even a good sleeper (its not). I consider DS2 to be a great sleeper, he hasn't slept thru the night once and frequently wakes twice to eat. A lot of new moms think they have a sleep problem when their baby is 3 or 4 months old and is still waking, when the reality is that they have a 3 or 4 month old that sleeps like a baby normally sleeps at that age.

shaina925 · January 2016

My pediatrician told me I could let him cry for hours. I would never do that! When I say he cried for 19 minutes it was because he was over tired, and it was no where near hysterical crying. He knows how to soothe himself now, and he is the happiest baby ever!

ElleMF728 · January 2016

shaina925 said:

My pediatrician told me I could let him cry for hours. I would never do that! When I say he cried for 19 minutes it was because he was over tired, and it was no where near hysterical crying. He knows how to soothe himself now, and he is the happiest baby ever!

We all just do the best we can to make it through the day. I may not agree with CIO at this age but I know you love your LO and he loves his mama!

Yiggle09 · January 2016

We did a modified cio. We went to pediatrician that gave us this pamphlet. It said at 4 months old babies weigh enough to sleep through the night and for us to stop feeding overnight. Sometimes he would wake us eat an oz and roll over to sleep again. He was 4 1/2 months at the 4 m appointment. The pamphlet said try to increase his oz per bottle and the distance between them we ep and supplement w formula now that i don't express enough. Once he was at 4 hour intervals with eating during the day we could attempt to not feed him overnight. First night we got up 3 times. First time that night he fussed moaned for about 20 mins couple times we went in. Each time after he fussed less, he doesn't take a paci. Next night he woke twice we repeated our new check pat method. Next night one wake up and now he's been sttn for over a week and it's fantastic. He eats 35 oz during day will sleep around 8 pm to 6 am. I'm glad cio worked for you it worked for us. And again it's never been a cry his cry is 0 to 60 he goes all red and doesn't breath and that's never happened in the crib. It's a fussy moan like hey I want you come back please type moan. Plus my husband is 45 raised by his grandparents from Italy it took alot after him reading that pamphlet to agree to even checking in and patting him those first nights. He wanted to put cereal in the bottles and I fought that too. Do you @shaina925

Livvyloo87 · January 2016

The OP was asking for the opinion of people who have used CIO and probably doesn't want to hear from the people who don't use it/don't agree with it. Just ignore the post - your only commenting to try and make someone feel bad. All that matters is your looking after your child and they are looking after theirs.

I'm so tired of all the Mum bashing and people reading things on the internet, becoming an expert then only commenting to get a reaction and/or make others feel bad. Just give it a rest @yellow1daisy

LoveLee85 · January 2016

No CIO in my house. I knew what I was signing up for when I became a parent. Sleepless nights is just part of it and I'm okay with that. I'm sure this is a hot topic because everyone is so different, but it's not for us.

backatac · January 2016

@livyloo0305 couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think people realize the effect mom bashing has especially when we are all just trying to figure things out with our little ones who we love so dearly. Everyone's situation is different and who are we to judge.

shaina925 · January 2016

Livvyloo87 said:

The OP was asking for the opinion of people who have used CIO and probably doesn't want to hear from the people who don't use it/don't agree with it. Just ignore the post - your only commenting to try and make someone feel bad. All that matters is your looking after your child and they are looking after theirs.

I'm so tired of all the Mum bashing and people reading things on the internet, becoming an expert then only commenting to get a reaction and/or make others feel bad. Just give it a rest @yellow1daisy

He is not neglected or in distress. He goes to bed with a bath, book, dry diaper, love from my husband and i and plenty of food in his belly. He cries because he is over tired. He would even cry when I used to pat his back. He knows how to soothe himself, and that's a great skill to have at a young age. And its more of a fuss rather than a cry anyways.

ChristaG22 · January 2016

The OP will probably feel deterred from ever honestly posting in this group again. Let me shame those who came into a thread they knew they wouldn't agree with merely to aggressively throw their unasked for opinion into the mix. At least get some tact if you so desperately HAVE to share your opinion.

OP- sorry that you received this reception. I know you wouldn't do anything to intentionally hurt your child or be 'lazy' parent. I can't even believe that was said to you.

chelseajeanene · January 2016

I'm happy you found something that worked for you. I personally don't have the strength to let my son cry for more then a few minuets at a time. 19 minuets is such a long time. I would be heartbroken

LeeAnn326 · January 2016

Those who have never tried CIO may not realize that often its not abondonment, but over-tiredness. Sometimes my LO can sleep within minutes, and other times it can last up to 15 minutes of off and on crying/fussing.

Last week I let him sleep in my arms because I was enjoying our cuddle time, but it was taking way more than 15 minutes to fall asleep, and even lasted up to an hour as we tried various techniques to get him to sleep. This time was also on and off crying, but we went back to crying it out in the crib, which seems to work better for him.

Livvyloo87 · January 2016

Agreed @ChristaG22 @backatac I would also wager that EVERY mother has let a baby CIO to some degree but few would speak about it out of fear of social backlash.

Good on @shaina925 for sharing her experience. We too have had great success with it and bedtimes are stress free and happy times for both us and LO.

I've never understood why people deliberately comment on posts just to start a war...it's not like OP was asking for opinions on CIO or pros/cons.

yellow1daisy · January 2016

I wasn't trying to start any war.
Just hurts my heart picturing a baby crying out for his momma and being ignored. I shared my opinion--shared by many, that CIO is not appropriate for an infant. Shared and article that I would hope would deter someone or at least make them consider CIO a very last resort.
May have come on really strongly but it's also something I feel very strongly about. In the end, it's not up to me how everyone's kids are raised.

hopeful87-2 · January 2016

I haven't done this but I have a friend with two totally normal and well adjusted children that swears by the Ferber Method. It worked really well for her boys (I'm not sure what age she started it at). She said it took 3-4 nights of implementing that method and by the last night they didn't cry at all. That is actually a really well studied method and a form of CIO that has high success rates (the book Baby911 has a chapter where it compares all different sleep training models, the studies behind them and there efficacy- it also clearly outlines how to implement whichever method you feel best fits you. I would recommend the book). Anyways, I'm glad to hear it's working for you!

caityrose · January 2016

My lo sometimes has to cry herself to sleep. She doesn't always conk out right away in the car and cries till she's asleep. Other time I'm holding her and she still cries herself to sleep. I had a baby that could self soothe herself to sleep for about a month then sleep regression hit. While I wouldn't let her cry till she's asleep in her cradle, I do try and let her fuss a bit sometimes but If she never settles down I help her out. Hopefully your lo won't need to cry to fall asleep much longer!

jlawson23 · January 2016

While I get the point of sharing something on the Internet and wanting only positive reception... But that's not realistic. There are hundreds of moms on this group from all different backgrounds and when you post about a controversial topic you are definitely going to get a variety of different comments on the issue. Those who can't validate using the cry it out method for themselves are simply just either saying why and , or providing new research.
As for the comment about posting here in the future, no offense she shouldn't be afraid to post here in the future. I'm sure she knows what type of group she joined.

cmlsu · January 2016

Here's the thing... baby might not be crying out for momma. I know my child's cries. Sometimes she's overtired, fussy, scared, or frustrated. I actually pride myself on being fairly in tune with what she's trying to communicate. Bring on the judgment, I am secure in the fact that I'm caring for my child and she is secure and safe. I know it's a controversial topic, but I'm glad when people find things that work for them. Discipline and boundaries are very tough subjects and impossible to reach a consensus on. I did a modified CIO, my baby is very attached and has great sleep habits that fit with our family lifestyle. And for others, you do you.

alyjmac · January 2016

yellow1daisy said:

I wasn't trying to start any war.
Just hurts my heart picturing a baby crying out for his momma and being ignored. I shared my opinion--shared by many, that CIO is not appropriate for an infant. Shared and article that I would hope would deter someone or at least make them consider CIO a very last resort.
May have come on really strongly but it's also something I feel very strongly about. In the end, it's not up to me how everyone's kids are raised.

I get you are trying to bring your point across but it turns into bashing when you say it's lazy parenting. I personally haven't let my son CIO but I can understand why some people might need to.
My parents did it to me because I cried all the time and there was literally nothing they could do about it. I'm fine now and have a great bond with both of them.

ChristaG22 · January 2016

She shouldn't take offence/ seriously? She was called lazy and cruel.

Livvyloo87 · January 2016

@ChristaG22 How awful of them. I hope they get satisfactation from being so nasty to another mother. I bet OP would disagree with many aspects of their parenting choices but would never be so mean as to harass them about them.

So shameful trying to bring another person down. Again only commenting to bring a negative aspect to this thread - why bother? Plenty of other threads for people to comment on that better align with their parenting styles.

ChristaG22 · January 2016

Right! And then to suggest that she knew what kind of group she was joining. Ummm- this is a mom group to support moms. This is the first time I have seen this kind of reaction to a post and I am on here daily! There is no justification for being downright rude and intolerant. But I digress. Some people don't get it.

jlawson23 · January 2016

@ChristaG22 clearly you are talking about my comment. I never said anything about her being cruel or a bad parent. I simply said that the CIO method would not work for me. As far as anything else I said my comments are realistic. She posted about a very controversial topic. My point is that she was definitely going to receive a variety of different types of feedback. Period. I didn't criticize her, nor were my intentions to make her feel bad. If it works for her family than by all means continue.

ChristaG22 · January 2016

I was answering your comment, but not accusing you of saying she was cruel or lazy. That was said in other comments if you read back through you will see. All I am saying is that if people really feel the need to comment on a post that erks them, then they should do so tactfully. Some people did and that's fine. It's the other more nasty comments that I had a problem with. I just think we need to be kind to one another. Sharing research and such is important, but in this case it wasn't really asked for as this mom was celebrating her success, not asking for various opinions on the method she uses.

I reserve my opinion on the method here, but I saw a need to stand up for this mom in this case. And that's what I have done, hopefully

yellow1daisy · January 2016

And the white knights come out. Firstly, this is not a support group; it's a common interest group.

I cannot support CIO as a sleep training method for a helpless needy infant. Nor can I sit back and not inform someone who may not know how unnecessary and potentially harmful it may be.

Sleep will come eventually. Just hang on. Try different methods. Give that baby that contact they crave and NEED. Years from now you will not think back and regret always responding to your child's cries. You may regret not responding.

I hate the 'it was done to so and so and they're fine' argument because it's not an argument. It's anecdotal and tells me absolutely nothing. There is real research saying it's harmful. So sorry, but that's what I'm going to believe.

I apologize to OP for mentioning the words cruel and lazy though I was more talking about the method than attacking her personally. I hope my somewhat initial bull-dog-like reaction doesn't make someone miss my point.

Although my daughter was due in September I left this group with the early bannings on TB. While I read almost daily I don't typically reply. This post just brought something out in me I guess. I'm not a mommy shamer. Formula, breast, when you start solids, whether you do cereal, cloth or disposable, natural, c section, epidural, etc. etc. etc. I don't care. But CIO, IN MY OPINION, is extreme and should not be used on babies as young as ours.

ChristaG22 · February 2016

My you have an affinity for the name calling. I'm not try to be a white night. I'm trying to promote tolerance. My point is to show tact if you must share. That's all I've said. And you've realized that your initial reaction was impulsive and explosive, so you got my point.

Also, I would like to think that all mom groups would be support groups and that we post where our opinions are sought out. There's no point in telling her to wait it out, because she's already practice the method and babe sleeps now.

We have a common belief in that I don't practice CIO either- but I don't begrudge others who do.

yellow1daisy · February 2016

Well I'm not for letting people go on with ignorance. If she didn't know the research maybe she does now. And if her baby has a set back, maybe she'll handle it differently. But it's not all about the OP. My comments, again, were not to attack her personally.

Maybe someone else who reads this thread won't think, I'd better let my baby CIO to achieve these amazing results.

You were being a white knight. You felt the need to stick up for the OP as though I'm sitting here bashing her which I was not. 'My you have an affinity for name calling' is a passive aggressive comment no matter how superior you like to think you're being.

Whatever, I've said my piece. I don't care to discuss this any further.

ChristaG22 · February 2016

Now I'm superior- blah. You are beyond rude. And saying that you affinity for name calling is not being passive aggressive- it's another way to say that you like to call people names. It's crystal clear. I'm not mincing words. I was being polite when I encouraged you to be tactful however, what I should have said was that you need to learn some matters.

You don't have to discuss this further- but you don't get to decide when I'm done either.

It doesn't feel nice to be shamed by others does it? You certainly haven't taken it well. And you don't like when other people act superior? Then stop telling people how to parent. You are not a superior parent.

There, now I'm done.

amp61470 · February 2016

I have a perfectly happy healthy almost 5 month old. He sleeps at times 12 hours straight and never less then 7 hours at night. He is formula fed, I co-sleep and he wakes up smiling. In fact I have people ask me if he is even not smiling. I can take him out and he doesn't fuss, he is simply the perfect example of a baby. That said, I let him cry it out when I put him down to sleep. He usually falls asleep within 10 minutes, if he goes over 15 minutes I go in and lay down with him. It's not me being lazy or not caring, or not reading up. This is what works for him. If you don't agree that is your right, but it isn't for anyone else to judge how I raise my child. It reminds me of the breastfeeding vs formula feeding argument. I formula feed, I wanted to breast feed but due to medication I couldn't. He is still healthy and happy. And this might be why he is such a good sleeper and not waking to eat throughout the night?

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