Had my RE visit, not what I expected...

kcolly32 · December 2015

So I went to see a RE today and I was surprised at what all I found out! First off I swore I O'd this past Monday, I had my temp dip, which I usually get and it spiked up the past two days and has stayed elevated. I know in the next few days for sure but it's following my usual pattern. I also had positive OPKs Sunday and Monday and it was negative Tuesday. And last but not least I had a lot of EWCM on Monday. Well after answering tons of questions the DR wanted to do an ultrasound of everything to see if I might have PCOS. As he was doing th US which looked good, no cysts, he told me I was getting ready to ovulate in the next day or so. He showed me the images and pointed out my right ovary getting ready to go. I'm baffled by this and told him about my temps and OPKs to which he said he wasn't fond of temping. He's also testing blood work because he does think there is a hormone imbalance somewhere and suggested clomid next cycle which I don't think I'm ready to try just yet. Now that I've rattled off my day, has anyone had temping not be accurate? Or just not know when you ovulate, ever?! I thought I was doing good and was figuring my body out until today. Sigh, why are women so complicated?!

[Deleted User] · December 2015

Oh man that's quite the mindfuck. Would you mind sharing your chart?

kcolly32 · December 2015

Sure! Like I said I do need a few more temps to confirm it for sure. I missed a few days last week being in Vegas but this is supposedly my FW according to FF, so atleast that's right...

blueyedfloozy · December 2015

I've heard a lot of Dr's and RE's don't approve of temping bc it's so easy to mess it up and you have to be perfect in order for it to be accurate. I still do it tho lol but I was surprised to hear that as well.

[Deleted User] · December 2015

kcolly32 said:

Sure! Like I said I do need a few more temps to confirm it for sure. I missed a few days last week being in Vegas but this is supposedly my FW according to FF, so atleast that's right...

Innnnteresting. Yeah the missing temps might have made it look different maybe? I'd be interested to see your chart in a few more days if you wouldn't mind updating!!

kcolly32 · December 2015

@antoto I will definitely keep you guys updated, this has me intrigued as well.

MissAmeliaPond · December 2015

I agree with PPs that you do need a few more temps to see if there's a sustained temp shift. I've had doctors (OBGYNs, not REs) say negative things about temping, as well - and it was pretty discouraging. You do need to be pretty perfect at temping for it to work, and it technically can't predict ovulation, either. You can only pinpoint it after the fact. I still temp though, because I like staring at my chart, and it's mostly accurate.

DCHokiemom · December 2015

My doc told me the same thing. I went in all prepared to talk about temping and she shut me down so fast it'd make your head spin. She wanted to hear none of it.

JournoGrl23 · December 2015

My doctor was very against temping and using OPKs as well. She basically told me to relax and HIO starting a little before CD 14 and until I get AF. But I like temping because it relaxes me. This is so odd!

[Deleted User] · December 2015

My midwife supported me doing temping, or else she humored me and just listened to me talk about it.

ArtlessIbex · December 2015

I've had two charts out of five have O dates that were a bit off (one was two days off and one was a week off). After AF came, I counted back the length of my luteal phase and pinpointed actual O day that way.
In my case, both were the result of FF being distracted by a random low temp and marking O as the low temp day.
I still temp (and probably always will), but I definitely don't stop having sex EOD until around CD 25, to be reasonably sure I got the whole window covered.
My OB is not interested in temping either. She just says HIO between CD 8 and 20.

MamaMunn · December 2015

I'm surprised that so many OBs are against temping. I wonder what they would suggest for someone with irregular cycles? I never asked about it the last time I met with mine, but at that time I had no idea what my cycles would be like since I was just stopping BC.

0SeaMonkey0 · December 2015

I wonder if there are a lot of people out there who temp without any kind of support like TB when they have questions? I have very irregular cycles due to PCOS and until I started temping, I never in my life knew when AF was going to start and of course, never knew when i was ovulating. TTC#1 was absolute hell because of this. Even though I'm obviously not pregnant yet, this time around is about 6000x less stressful because DH and I feel in control. We know what's going on, we know that I'm ovulating (always a concern in the past), we know if we had well timed sex, we know when to test. I could go on and on. Fertility Friend has always been bang on with my ovulation and AF, even though my temps aren't even and my shift is slow. I will admit I have to play with it every cycle and discard a few weird temps to make everything work, but I use the notes section to keep track of any changes I make and it's always bang on. I just don't see how this could be a negative thing.

I will say though, I couldn't imagine trying to interpret my charts without FF so maybe their negative experiences are from people who try to do it by hand? I could see that being difficult.

skilouise · December 2015

JournoGrl23 said:
My doctor was very against temping and using OPKs as well. She basically told me to relax and HIO starting a little before CD 14 and until I get AF. But I like temping because it relaxes me. This is so odd!

Yikes. My cycle before last was 48 days long. I'm exhausted just thinking about HIO for 34+ days. Nope nope nope.

Megzb510 · December 2015

AshVA said:

JournoGrl23 said:
My doctor was very against temping and using OPKs as well. She basically told me to relax and HIO starting a little before CD 14 and until I get AF. But I like temping because it relaxes me. This is so odd!
Yikes. My cycle before last was 48 days long. I'm exhausted just thinking about HIO for 34+ days. Nope nope nope.

@AshVA - I'm in the same boat. (45+ day
cycles) I just can't HIO EOD for over a month. It's just too much pressure/stress. Timing sex sucks for the irregular cycle.

kcolly32 · December 2015

Megzb510 said:

AshVA said:

JournoGrl23 said:
My doctor was very against temping and using OPKs as well. She basically told me to relax and HIO starting a little before CD 14 and until I get AF. But I like temping because it relaxes me. This is so odd!
Yikes. My cycle before last was 48 days long. I'm exhausted just thinking about HIO for 34+ days. Nope nope nope.
@AshVA - I'm in the same boat. (45+ day
cycles) I just can't HIO EOD for over a month. It's just too much pressure/stress. Timing sex sucks for the irregular cycle.

I agree with you guys, I didn't O until CD25 last cycle and we tried to BD EOD and I was so tired of sex by the end of it.

DoxieLove05 · December 2015

@AshVA -I'm with you I have roughly 40-50 day cycles so far... No thanks lol

skilouise · December 2015

@Megzb510

It does! I completely missed the boat on my last cycle. I ovulated on day 20 (ish, I got sick so didn't temp CD 21), after ovulating on CD 33 the previous cycle. I was barely even paying attention yet on CD 20.

I'm hoping ovulating on CD 20 is a sign that the metformin is working, and not just a new way for my body to screw with me...

JournoGrl23 · December 2015

@AshVA that's what I told my doctor! Because I had a 54 day cycle and then last cycle was 39 days and this one is shaping out to be 30 something days as well. I wouldn't be able to HIO for that long. That's one reason why I ignored her and continued to temp.

TheBorg7of9 · December 2015

kcolly32 said:
Sure! Like I said I do need a few more temps to confirm it for sure. I missed a few days last week being in Vegas but this is supposedly my FW according to FF, so atleast that's right...

Looks like your chart isn't quite conclusive yet, but regardless I'd trust the ultrasound!

BostonBaby1 · December 2015

***lurking***

Usually I can see a clear biphasic pattern but I have had two months where I O'd (confirmed by bloodwork) and had a delayed temp shift. Not super helpful to you but to answer the question, yes, and this isn't my first go at temping. It's unusual though.

kcolly32 · December 2015

Temp is still elevated this am, no cross hairs yet tho. I'm assuming if it's high again tm I'll get them. My OPKs have been negative still since Tuesday but I'll keep testing. My cm hasn't been fertile since Monday either, it's the sticky kind. Dr said looking at the size of the follicle I should O within 24-48hrs but all other signs aren't there. DH and I are HIO but idk what my body is doing. Is it possible to get a mature follicle but it not actually release an egg?!

Edited: grammar and added question.

TheBorg7of9 · December 2015

Maybe you're releasing 2 eggs. It's possible if they are within 24 hours of each other. ?

britters314 · December 2015

TheBorg7of9 said:

Maybe you're releasing 2 eggs. It's possible if they are within 24 hours of each other. ?

I was thinking the same thing. Double ovulation is possible, but one on Monday and one on Wednesday or Thursday is probably too far apart for it to be that.

skilouise · December 2015

@kcolly32

I wouldn't really consider your CD 17 to be a high temp. It's not higher than your last six recorded temps. I think CD 18 is your first high temp.

Kristin712 · December 2015

AshVA said:
@kcolly32

I wouldn't really consider your CD 17 to be a high temp. It's not higher than your last six recorded temps. I think CD 18 is your first high temp.

Agreed. I also think the most recent temp is still within the pre-O range. Could have been a false surge.

tinypikachu · December 2015

kcolly32 said:
Temp is still elevated this am, no cross hairs yet tho. I'm assuming if it's high again tm I'll get them. My OPKs have been negative still since Tuesday but I'll keep testing. My cm hasn't been fertile since Monday either, it's the sticky kind. Dr said looking at the size of the follicle I should O within 24-48hrs but all other signs aren't there. DH and I are HIO but idk what my body is doing. Is it possible to get a mature follicle but it not actually release an egg?!

Edited: grammar and added question.

It's possible but unlikely! Don't worry about the signs either. The EWCM doesn't happen on O day, it tends to happen about 2 days before to prepare your body for O and sex since, technically, sperm can survive until you O if you BD 2 days before. Keep HIO. ETA: people have the common misconception of Oing on the day they get EWCM, but getting this only means you're getting ready to O.

My doctor is kinda okay with me temping but he doesn't advertise it as, contrary to what a lot of people believe, it is not 100% accurate, no matter how perfectly you do it as our bodies aren't perfect. I still temp anyways but I could understand not doing it while TTC. He just dismissed me when I talked about my temping. He did believe my O date in regards to my terrible O symptoms, but this is only because I've had my O date confirmed with ultrasounds in the past (years ago, though, and not by him) and found out I do O on the day I get O pain and he said he found it amazing that I was so aware of my cyle. You'd think he'd be more into me temping instead of going off of O pain, but he wasn't.

MNturnsVA · December 2015

I've seen 2 RE's and both of them put next to no stock in temping. Both recommended the OPKS and said that I could stop temping if it made me more comfortable. I said when I first started out on this journey I was going to temp for the 1st 6 months just so I'd have the data to share if needed. Well last month was my 5th month temping and I had my HSG last month at the beginning of my cycle so as to not affect O. (they usually do HSG's between day 7-10 for this reason) I turned OPKS on CD 13 or 14? which would have been early for me. Kept taking my temps, waited for CH, finally got them. My temps had been off all month, doing weird stuff so I wasn't really sure about them anyways, but I went with it, although not fully trusting the CH. Kept on temping and a few days later FF took my CH away.

when I called the RE on CD 1 to schedule our post coital CM test, I told the nurse about what had happened with the OPKS and the temps and all she heard was I didn't turn the OPK. Which is not even close to what I said.

so I think sometimes when temps come up they start 1/2 listening.......

remington870 · December 2015

I have been temping for about 3 months. And my charts have been dramatically up and down. I have read that environmental changes can really effect things. We live in an old farm house, in a state that is 60 degrees one day and snowing the next and we heat with a wood stove. Pretty much a very inconsistent environment. I've kind of started not paying attention to my temps. Focused more on my CF.

michmich11 · December 2015

Thanks for posting, this is really interesting. I have stopped HIO EOD after FF gives me crosshairs but my LP is consistently 15 days so I feel like FF is right. Thankfully my cycles aren't as long as some of yours but still, the idea of having to HIO EOD all month every month is exhausting! GL to you all!

monkeygirl32 · December 2015

With PCOS you will see spikes all over the place. It's because your body tries to ovulate, but can't. Opks are also not reliable in PCOS. That is why your RE told not to use them. You don't have to have cysts to have PCOS. Cysts are sign of it, but not everyone has them.

PCOS is an endocrine disorder which is why you are seeing an RE and not just a fertility specialist. Does that make sense? It's an endocrine disorder that affects the reproductive system. Again, it's an endocrine disorder. People with PCOS have low LH and high FSH. LH is what matures your eggs to make you ovulate. When you have low LH, FSH is triggered by the pituitary gland and is starts to release extra FSH. The result is, you don't ovulate properly and don't usually ovulate eggs that are mature enough to become fertilized and sustain a pregnancy. People with PCOS also have insulin resistance and tend to gain weight around the abdomen which is the worst place to gain it. The extra weight can also cause you to have problems ovulating.

I have PCOS. I had cysts all throughout my teens and early twenties. I was diagnosed in my early twenties. I haven't had any cysts in about 15 years now. I did fall pregnant with my son without help ten years ago. After my son was born, my cycles leveled out and I started ovulating monthly. I recently started temping and using opks. We will see if it works for me but I know it may not. I did conceive in September but miscarried in October. So we are going to try. My ob is giving me 6 months to try and conceive on my own again.

An opk measures LH. It tells you that your body is trying to ovulate. But the egg may not be mature enough to ovulate so you could get several LH surges a month until that egg matures. The RE saw that is was mature and ready.

Hopefully you will get the answers you need soon.

ShallowSeas · December 2015

I'm glad you posted this. I have my first RE appt on Monday and plan on bringing all my temping charts for him to look at. I guess now if he 'poo-poo's' my charts and doesnt want to look at them I won't be so confused and offended.

kcolly32 · December 2015

monkeygirl32 said:
With PCOS you will see spikes all over the place. It's because your body tries to ovulate, but can't. Opks are also not reliable in PCOS. That is why your RE told not to use them. You don't have to have cysts to have PCOS. Cysts are sign of it, but not everyone has them.

PCOS is an endocrine disorder which is why you are seeing an RE and not just a fertility specialist. Does that make sense? It's an endocrine disorder that affects the reproductive system. Again, it's an endocrine disorder. People with PCOS have low LH and high FSH. LH is what matures your eggs to make you ovulate. When you have low LH, FSH is triggered by the pituitary gland and is starts to release extra FSH. The result is, you don't ovulate properly and don't usually ovulate eggs that are mature enough to become fertilized and sustain a pregnancy. People with PCOS also have insulin resistance and tend to gain weight around the abdomen which is the worst place to gain it. The extra weight can also cause you to have problems ovulating.

I have PCOS. I had cysts all throughout my teens and early twenties. I was diagnosed in my early twenties. I haven't had any cysts in about 15 years now. I did fall pregnant with my son without help ten years ago. After my son was born, my cycles leveled out and I started ovulating monthly. I recently started temping and using opks. We will see if it works for me but I know it may not. I did conceive in September but miscarried in October. So we are going to try. My ob is giving me 6 months to try and conceive on my own again.

An opk measures LH. It tells you that your body is trying to ovulate. But the egg may not be mature enough to ovulate so you could get several LH surges a month until that egg matures. The RE saw that is was mature and ready.

Hopefully you will get the answers you need soon.

Yes I'm aware of PCOS and how it works, I'm a RN and learned all about it. I do get several LH surges each cycle and I told the RE that, he thinks that I maybe producing either too much testosterone or prolactin, which he drew blood to check for. He said any elevation in those could raise LH and cause me to have falsely OPKs. He didn't discourage OPKs, just temping, he said its not very accurate. I had my glucose checked and never had any issues with that but I have gained 10lbs since coming off of BC this year but I also turned 30 and don't have the best diet so it could be that as well. He said right now he didn't have enough info to say for sure that I do have PCOS but recommended clomid next cycle of it doesn't happen this time. I'm hoping that since I most likely have the O date right this time we might actually get it. When in doubt, hump it out!

skilouise · December 2015

@monkeygirl32

Good luck with temping and charting. Many women with PCOS can still use OPKs and temp successfully, as long as they recognize that their signs will look different from a "normal" chart. I have PCOS too, and temp/chart. I have occasional false temp spikes, but I also have a clear sustained temp shift after true ovulation.

I also use OPKs. The CBAs are useless for me, but Wondfos are great. The test line will fade in and out over a few weeks, but has gotten noticeably darker (if not a true positive) right before actual ovulation.

Also, to clarify- while many women with PCOS (including me) are insulin resistant and have extra abdominal weight, not all are.

kcolly32 · December 2015

Ok so I called to get my results from my blood work and the nurse said my testosterone levels are slightly elevated outside of normal range. She said the dr would probably put me on metformin to get my levels down. I'll know what the plan is tm. I was reading online to cut down on carbs and increase cardio, love carbs! But atleast anatomy wise I don't have any cysts. This would also explain my multiple LH surges, Thanks everyone for your input!

kcolly32 · December 2015

@antoto here is my chart now that I have crosshairs and FF put my O date to Tuesday which I would've expected if the US didn't prove me wrong. I did have another temp increase today so maybe I O'd for real yesterday.

TheBorg7of9 · December 2015

kcolly32 said:
@antoto here is my chart now that I have crosshairs and FF put my O date to Tuesday which I would've expected if the US didn't prove me wrong. I did have another temp increase today so maybe I O'd for real yesterday.

what day was the ultrasound and how big in millimeters was the follicle? Your chart looks pretty clear, but I am not sure what they look for in the ultrasound.

anj27 · December 2015

I think it's a good reminder that FF and its CHs are not end-all, be-all. They have developed a smart logarithm but everyone's bodies are different and I don't think one logarithm can be accurate for everyone. And there are so many factors that affect our temperatures to throw off the pattern. I think temping is cool and really helpful but maybe it is not always so easy to pinpoint to the day of ovulation, at least not for everyone. This is only my second cycle charting but so far my body in particular seems to be bad at following the rules. My cycles are long and irregular and I don't think I can sustain having sex EOD for the entirety of it, but my plan is to have sex at least every three days throughout most of my cycle and more frequently when I suspect I am getting closer to ovulation.

kcolly32 · December 2015

TheBorg7of9 said:

kcolly32 said:
@antoto here is my chart now that I have crosshairs and FF put my O date to Tuesday which I would've expected if the US didn't prove me wrong. I did have another temp increase today so maybe I O'd for real yesterday.
what day was the ultrasound and how big in millimeters was the follicle? Your chart looks pretty clear, but I am not sure what they look for in the ultrasound.

@TheBorg7of9 my US was on Wednesday and he said it measured 19mm I believe. Dr said it usually releases an egg at 20-22mm.

@PocketFullofShells besides this month I feel like my temps have been accurate. I've had a 16day LP and start my period usually 16 days after I O'd unless I guess those have been off as well but I feel like I know what's going on in my body more when I temp so I'll keep doing it.

[Deleted User] · December 2015

Ahhhhh sometimes temping just ends up confusing me more. FF gave me my crosshairs today but it's not at all a day that really makes any sense. I'm confused and it's just making me nervous that something is wrong with me.

TheBorg7of9 · December 2015

antoto said:

Ahhhhh sometimes temping just ends up confusing me more. FF gave me my crosshairs today but it's not at all a day that really makes any sense. I'm confused and it's just making me nervous that something is wrong with me.

@antoto, I bet your crosshairs will move after a few more temps. btw, there's nothing wrong with you.

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