@KonaCoffeeBean it was just an analogy that got me thinking. I'm not saying I wouldn't help them, I'm saying I want to but I'm also a bit terrified. I think I'm allowed to be.
Forgive me, because I typed this like 7 hours ago and couldn't post it, so the draft has been sitting all day. I could adjust it to be more in tune with the flow of the conversation, but I'm just too lazy. I'll add in more current stuff at the bottom
~~~~~~ Not letting in refugees (drink!) is not going to make us safer. In fact, I believe that NOT letting in the refugees (drink!) will actually make us LESS safe in the long run. Because who joins extremist groups? People who are butthurt at the west. And I can't think of a better way to piss off a WHOLE BUNCH of people than to deny them the ability to take refuge from being killed. Second, those politicians who say 'we need to clean up our own country first' - well, that's admirable. But you've had the problem with the VA forever, and you continue to not address it. Military pay raises are voted down. The favored way of showing disagreement isn't working to reach to resolution (like we put you in office to do), its to 'shut down the government' - which makes your military go without pay. You say you care about women and children at home? Then you should fund planned parenthood. And make programs like WIC more accessible. Worried about homelessness? A living wage would help with that. I don't know if $15 is the magic # or not, but I know for damned sure the minimum wage where I live is not a living wage. Working 40 hours a week at minimum wage in my area would pay my mortgage and leave me with $40 left over for the month. As long as I didn't pay taxes on that $. But I'm a good citizen, so I do. So now I can't afford my mortgage. And I don't have an expensive home, either. All of these problems that supposedly need to be addressed before we allow in refugees (drink!) have been around forever, and the people saying we need to address them are the same people who are constantly against the programs that address the problems. ~~~~~~~~~
Back to the current conversation. The refugees (drink!) are already subject to investigation that sounds even harder than my husband had to go thru to join the military. Thru three separate security agencies and clearances. I don't remember the exact process, but I did read it, and it's intense. Also, unless I've missed something (and I watch ALOT of news), its been determined that the guy with the Syrian passport was actually NOT a refugee (drink!). He was a Belgian national, with a faked Syrian passport, specifically to throw suspicion on refugees (drink!), and make us fear them.
Now I have to go back thru this thread and count up how many drinks I owe
For those of you who feel passionately about helping the refugees: how many of you are willing to accept them into your homes or to directly donate to their cause (whether it be monetary, goods, or time)? I struggle to grasp the whole "we need to help them" when the "we" is some abstract concept and people are not taking personal responsibility for the cause they feel so passionate about. I personally would not house or be directly involved in this cause and I am very willing to take responsibility for that and not expect others to assume the responsibility that I myself am not willing to. I do, however, find it wonderful for those who can be so interested in this or any other cause that they feel so passionately about (for me it's all things animal and local charities).
It's obvious there are many different viewpoints here, but both sides bring up rational, valid points and questions.
What drives me crazy, with anything political, are the people who don't actually understand the nuances to the problem. They hear some sound bite on Fox News or MSNBC, take that for fact, and spew their ignorance around. Or they "like" all the one-sided memes or articles on Facebook.
I actually admire the crazy zealots (on either side) because at lest they understand their position and have reasons for it.
I actually don't think there are valid points on both sides, but I'm a zealot. I think fear-mongering is not valid in any way, shape, or form. The asylum process already includes all the checks and processes that people are asking about.
It is like the state of Ohio, which is defunding Planned Parenthood because of the "baby parts" issue... Despite there already being a state law that outlaws it, and therefore zero chance of it happening in Ohio. So defunding state PP clinics has zero to do with the "selling baby parts" fear mongering. Instead, they are defunding HIV and STI testing and pre-natal treatment, and telling constituents they are protecting babies from being cut up.
So no. I don't find any of it valid. The questions about refugee processing, etc. are valid, if someone doesn't know facts and systems, absolutely. But the fear mongering, misinformation, and paranoia is not valid.
And the only thing I dislike more than fear-mongering is the "un-American" or "anti-American" narrative. Because what, pray tell, is this so-called "American" stance. Is it a singular position or trait? Last time I checked, the majority of voters elected Obama, twice. Seems pretty American to me.
And last, Trump is calling to register Muslims. How hateful and disgusting. People sit around and wonder how the Holocaust happened. Well, how it happened was first, Hitler registered the Jews. And no one said anything about it.
We apologize a lot on here, but I'm not apologizing. I'm angry and I'm informed and these f'ing politicians are counting on fear and complacency and ignorance. And it makes my blood boil.
ETA: I genuinely don't remember who posted what. So while I am responding to posts, I am responding to words and not individuals - I don't really know or care who said what. Because I'm as bad as the rest of them and certain I'm right. Like I said, this is why I don't like democracy.
For those of you who feel passionately about helping the refugees: how many of you are willing to accept them into your homes or to directly donate to their cause (whether it be monetary, goods, or time)? I struggle to grasp the whole "we need to help them" when the "we" is some abstract concept and people are not taking personal responsibility for the cause they feel so passionate about. I personally would not house or be directly involved in this cause and I am very willing to take responsibility for that and not expect others to assume the responsibility that I myself am not willing to. I do, however, find it wonderful for those who can be so interested in this or any other cause that they feel so passionately about (for me it's all things animal and local charities).
The "we" is not an abstract concept, it is the government and private agencies that are already in place.
I am also passionate about, say, school children getting a nutritious lunch everyday but I don't cook them in my own kitchen. That's what we have public schools for.
@virginiaunicorn11 I appreciate your passion but paranoia and fear are feelings and to me feelings are always valid. Also, misinformation can be challenged and it is an opportunity to correct to provide the correct information (facts not opinions).
@virginiaunicorn11 I appreciate your passion but paranoia and fear are feelings and to me feelings are always valid. Also, misinformation can be challenged and it is an opportunity to correct to provide the correct information (facts not opinions).
We can agree to disagree. I think fear based on lies is not valid. If we want democracy, we are obliged to be informed. If we have questions and fears, examining facts rather than trusting sound bites is important.
If I fear vampires eating my baby tonight, that is not a valid fear. Staying awake with garlic and a wooden stake is not a valid response. It is crazy. Vampires don't exist.
Maybe "valid" is the wrong word. But I don't believe in the "I feel this way so I am allowed to feel this way" approach. If you are making decisions based on fear and the Boogie Man doesn't exist, then no, you do not get to impact millions of people because we should respect your fear of a non-existent Boogie Man.
(Obviously terrorists exist. That's not the Boogie Man that I mean in this analogy.)
ETA: I make monthly donations to refugee organizations and we have foreigners living in our house. So I practice what I preach.
Yes... Terrorism is a very rational fear (vampires too maybe). Also geographical location assists in creating and exacerbating those fears to be very rational . Obviously, it can and does happen anywhere but for people say close to NYC it becomes more personal and feelings are expected to be more intense and less based on realistic probabilities.
If you are on Facebook and want to know more about the refugee process, search for Scott Hicks. He is an immigration lawyer and he explained the whole process. It's long, but that's because the process is long. It's being shared quite a bit, so hopefully more people will see it.
@ElRuby Totally fair question to ask how people's "support" of asylum (or anything) extends past social media. Personally, I will not open my home to refugees. We don't have an extra bed, but even if we did, I don't think I would do that. I'm pretty private, and I just can't see myself housing anyone outside of my immediate family. However, I am willing to donate some money and legal services. It's not much, I suppose, but as I mentioned, it's an effort that my church is undertaking, and I hope that the 200-or-so of us can help a family. Just 3 or 4 or 5 people. It's not even a drop in the bucket, but it matters a great deal to the family who gets to live in the relative safety of the US. That's what I'm willing to do.
Yes... Terrorism is a very rational fear (vampires too maybe). Also geographical location assists in creating and exacerbating those fears to be very rational . Obviously, it can and does happen anywhere but for people say close to NYC it becomes more personal and feelings are expected to be more intense and less based on realistic probabilities.
I don't think it's as rational as people think it is. For example, if you're more worried about a terrorist attack than a gun violence incident, your internal risk calculations are off.
I know your point about geography is true in terms of amount of worry. But worry is not the same as risk, and worries are not usually statistically accurate. Most of my biggest fears are irrational because it's easier, in some ways, to fear unlikely things than realistic things.
Politics sicken me. I feel like when you choose between candidates you're choosing between the lesser of two evils. I don't believe any of them actually follow through on even 25% of the things they say they're going to do. I hate the way generalizations are made about certain groups of people (religion, race, sexuality, political beliefs, etc). I'm southern, Christian, and conservative. I also have a sociology degree and work in the non profit/social work field. So many times at this job and at another non profit agency I worked for I had people tell me that my belief system did not line up with my career choice. That's bullshit. When Obama won the second time a "liberal" coworker who actually told me I should be glad and asked me who my grandfather voted for and when I told her she said "a mormon?!?". So you sit here and say you're so tolerant but then condemn someone because of religious choices? Hypocrite. Just because I vote primarily conservative doesn't mean I think that people don't deserve government assistance, I just think it needs to be a little stricter. Every day I talk to senior citizens who are denied in home services to keep them out of the nursing home because they have too much money, the amount of money allowed by the government is ridiculous. People who work hard and try to save are punished. People who were born disabled and need help are denied because their parents made too much. These people are hungry, can't afford their prescriptions and medical bills. They can't pay their utility bills. Then I know people my own age who refuse to work and continue to intentionally reproduce and are able to get medicaid while I bust my ass to pay off student loans. The whole system is corrupt. Republican, democrat, independent, whatever they call themselves, all these politicians are selfish assholes who sling mud and cause every day citizens to not get along. I'm tired of people attacking each other and acting all holier than though. Nobody is any better than anybody else and if we can't get along within our own country how are we supposed to help others?
Politics sicken me. I feel like when you choose between candidates you're choosing between the lesser of two evils. I don't believe any of them actually follow through on even 25% of the things they say they're going to do. I hate the way generalizations are made about certain groups of people (religion, race, sexuality, political beliefs, etc). I'm southern, Christian, and conservative. I also have a sociology degree and work in the non profit/social work field. So many times at this job and at another non profit agency I worked for I had people tell me that my belief system did not line up with my career choice. That's bullshit. When Obama won the second time a "liberal" coworker who actually told me I should be glad and asked me who my grandfather voted for and when I told her she said "a mormon?!?". So you sit here and say you're so tolerant but then condemn someone because of religious choices? Hypocrite. Just because I vote primarily conservative doesn't mean I think that people don't deserve government assistance.
Politicians are selfish assholes who sling mud and cause every day citizens to not get along.
@ElRuby, me too. He actually visited a church in our area and I'm kicking myself for not going. He seems to have some real life experience and as a neurosurgeon has to be able to plan things out as well as think quickly on the spot. If that's the case, he sounds promising. Especially more than Trump.
Terrorism aside (because yes obviously the majority of refugees are not terrorists) what are the logistics of the plan to bring all those refugees here? For me, it doesn't make sense when we have a very big homeless population here... And not saying American children are more important than Syrian children, but the American government has a responsibility first to its one citizens. So to the government they should be more important from a resource perspective.
So this is actually a real question and not a snarky observation for those more informed than me on this matter... Where exactly are they living and how are they earning a living etc?
I used to do refugee resettlement for the International Rescue Committee. When a refugee family first arrives a caseworker picks them up at the airport and takes them to their apartment, which has been furnished at a basic level (one plate/cup/bed/blanket per person). The funds for their first 90 days are paid by a matching grant, the federal govt matches what IRC raises in donations and in-kind. So they are not accessing public assistance. During that 90 days they have to go to ESL classes, meet with an employment caseworker, do cultural orientation classes (like how to call 911 if there's an emergency, how to open a bank account so they're not walking around with cash, how to take the bus to get places, personal stuff like for women the fact that we wear bras here when we go out - that is not common for some African women and it's an issue for employers obv). The employment caseworker works with them on interview prep and most refugees are happy to take jobs as housekeepers or dishwashers in hotels. Those jobs have high turnover because it's hard work for minimum wage. The hotels were happy to work with us because refugees were reliable, eager to work, always passed drug screens and most of all they were here legally with all the necessary work documentation. We made sure they knew how to get back and forth to work on the bus, and stuff like how to call your boss if you were going to be late.
By the time 90 days was up they had gotten a few pay checks and could cover their own rent. And they got health insurance through their jobs. No welfare. It worked.
Personally I would be 1000 times more concerned about the high numbers of Somalis we resettle. I never had much luck placing Somalis in jobs, the women would refuse to wear a small black headscarf to abide by uniform rules, they would insist on their huge multilayered hijabs. They were mostly illiterate and had been in refugee camps for so long that the idea of working was a totally foreign concept. They would promise they would take the first job offered and then purposefully bomb the interview (like I'd coach them about the importance of saying they could work any day and they'd get there and tell the interviewer they couldn't work Saturdays, Sundays or Wednesdays). They'd take their monthly cash stipends we gave them, string us along that they were really looking for a job, and then use that money to buy a one way ticket to Minneapolis on day 89. It was totally BS and I dreaded the Somali cases. If we're worried about terrorism, look at the number of Somalis who've joined al-Shabab. It's not insignificant.
@klirwin82 thank you so much for this information... You helped me better understand the process and made me aware of something I never even knew about.
I'm not sure *why* this question was asked - "would you accept a refugee into your home or donate money". I can see two different reasons for asking it, so I will attempt to answer both 1) to ascertain my comfort level with someone who is a refugee living in close proximity to my own family? Well, I don't like people in my space. At all. If someone lived in my house it is *them* who should be worried about *me*. I Do. Not. Like. People. In. My. Space. I can deal for a night or two. Or, a friend and I were discussing on fb having weekly girls sleepover movie nights with our LOs, alternating weekly. I could do that. But I don't like people to stay more than a few days, and that's pushing it for me. Also, I don't have enough room for a family, and if I was going to do this thing, I would not break up a family. However, I would have no problems with a family living next door, or if I were in an apartment and a nearby apartment was subletted out to a family by klirwin's organization, no problem. I'm not concerned about proximity of their people with mine. I like people from other countries. They keep my perspective fresh, and satisfy my itchy curiosity
2) if this question is trying to gauge my commitment to 'the cause' - Admittedly, I do not have much money to be able to donate. However, I do have plenty of material goods like clothes, blankets, an old TV, etc I would donate if I knew a family (or families) were coming and needed them. If I had just a little more $, I could donate funds. I do have a fair amount of target gift cards I've stockpiled that could buy some shoes or jackets for refugees. I've been saving them for a rough day for us, but if I knew for sure a family from Syria was coming to my town, I know they need warm shoes and coats. I'd probably be behind the ball and they'd have gotten them already, but should I be the very first person to learn they needed coats and shoes, I'd use my gift cards and get what I could. Why not? I can buy more diapers and formula and get more gift cards.
Also, I lived in NYC from June 2010-2014. I took the subway to work from queens and worked almost in the shadow of the new world trade. I get it, NYC is not smalltownsville, USA. As far as targets go, its delicious and juicy. My hubs ran security for the UN assembly every year (not ran as in 'in charge of', ran as in 'was part of the hundreds of team members responsible for security on the water'). But for me, I know myself. My fears about the subway (or times square, or anywhere else) would be no less and no more should 10,000 refugees of war be somewhere in the US at that moment during my morning commute. Its not like they are all moving to NYC. And besides - if you see something, say something.
ETA hopefully that helps people understand my thinking. I mean, c'mon... Y'all knew I was hippy dippy. Peace and love, man
Terrorism aside (because yes obviously the majority of refugees are not terrorists) what are the logistics of the plan to bring all those refugees here? For me, it doesn't make sense when we have a very big homeless population here... And not saying American children are more important than Syrian children, but the American government has a responsibility first to its one citizens. So to the government they should be more important from a resource perspective.
So this is actually a real question and not a snarky observation for those more informed than me on this matter... Where exactly are they living and how are they earning a living etc?
I used to do refugee resettlement for the International Rescue Committee. When a refugee family first arrives a caseworker picks them up at the airport and takes them to their apartment, which has been furnished at a basic level (one plate/cup/bed/blanket per person). The funds for their first 90 days are paid by a matching grant, the federal govt matches what IRC raises in donations and in-kind. So they are not accessing public assistance. During that 90 days they have to go to ESL classes, meet with an employment caseworker, do cultural orientation classes (like how to call 911 if there's an emergency, how to open a bank account so they're not walking around with cash, how to take the bus to get places, personal stuff like for women the fact that we wear bras here when we go out - that is not common for some African women and it's an issue for employers obv). The employment caseworker works with them on interview prep and most refugees are happy to take jobs as housekeepers or dishwashers in hotels. Those jobs have high turnover because it's hard work for minimum wage. The hotels were happy to work with us because refugees were reliable, eager to work, always passed drug screens and most of all they were here legally with all the necessary work documentation. We made sure they knew how to get back and forth to work on the bus, and stuff like how to call your boss if you were going to be late.
By the time 90 days was up they had gotten a few pay checks and could cover their own rent. And they got health insurance through their jobs. No welfare. It worked.
Personally I would be 1000 times more concerned about the high numbers of Somalis we resettle. I never had much luck placing Somalis in jobs, the women would refuse to wear a small black headscarf to abide by uniform rules, they would insist on their huge multilayered hijabs. They were mostly illiterate and had been in refugee camps for so long that the idea of working was a totally foreign concept. They would promise they would take the first job offered and then purposefully bomb the interview (like I'd coach them about the importance of saying they could work any day and they'd get there and tell the interviewer they couldn't work Saturdays, Sundays or Wednesdays). They'd take their monthly cash stipends we gave them, string us along that they were really looking for a job, and then use that money to buy a one way ticket to Minneapolis on day 89. It was totally BS and I dreaded the Somali cases. If we're worried about terrorism, look at the number of Somalis who've joined al-Shabab. It's not insignificant.
Personally, I'm voting Deez Nutz in 2016.
I freaking love the IRC. They're a monthly recipient of my charitable donations. I've always kept an eye on their jobs postings and felt like if I jumped ship at my org, I'd want to go there next. You're kind of my hero for having worked there!
Genuine question for Ben Carson fans: what do you make of his gaffs about the pyramids, getting the U.S. geography wrong, and the recent interview with his aide saying he's got some serious issues with foreign policy? I know people are drawn to non-politicians, and while I don't agree with that, I can see that perspective. I don't know what his supporters think of those other things that he's said/have happened, though. TIA for being willing to share.
Disclaimer: I wouldn't consider myself super educated but I also wouldn't consider myself un-educated with regards to politics or these topics.
While I can't quite get on board with this discussion from an American perspective but being a neighbour to the North (yay Canada?) and being that our newly elected PM is hoping to succeed in accepting 25,000 Syrian refugees before Jan 1. I can probably contribute!
1) On your candidates - Just please not TRUMP! I feel like it would be a complete mockery and I would be afraid that so much hard work in terms of forming relationships would go down the drain because he thinks his sh*t doesn't stink.
2) On our candidates - I was in a similar mindset during our recent election - Just not Harper! Thankfully my preference for a candidate was successful and gained a majority government.
3) On the refugee situation I have a few perspectives..
-It's not any one person or countries responsibility to help. I believe we are one world though we have strayed so far from it. So my personal philosophy would be it's the worlds issue regardless or how many homeless or unfortunate individuals you already have.
-Here's my kicker. If one day (heaven forbid) something utterly terrible happened and there was the need for Americans or Canadians (or any other country that is considering NOT accepting refugees) to seek a safer more desirable place to leave would someone open their arms to us if we had not opened our arms to others? Hopefully.. but far less likely if we have been closed to helping others. So I guess the old proverb? Do onto others as you would have them do unto yourself... is kind of my mantra for everything. If you aren't willing to help because of your beliefs, fears, insecurities, worries, concerns etc. why should anyone else?
- I hope both countries do accept refugees from Syria. As others have pointed out it really doesn't increase the risk as far as I am concerned regarding the potential for terrorist attacks. What DOES increase the potential for terrorist attacks is our involvement and method of involvement of fighting again Isis and other terrorist organizations. I think these organizations are smart enough to figure out how to get into and around the country undetected without needing to infiltrate a group of refugees that is literally having to march through multiple countries and face death, disease and disaster every day.
4) On feelings and thinking. I would accept someone "thinking" over "feeling" anyday because feelings are tied to emotions and we all know how fallible our feelings can be. At least if you are thinking there may be "reason" behind your statement.
Just my two cents. Love the perspective that so many ladies have laid out here makes me hopeful for the future.
First, thank you ladies for giving early Morning feedings something other than random Facebook surfing... I like healthy respectful discussions while my husband is so peacefully snoring away (obvious sarcasm).
@virginiaunicorn11 ... The pyramid thing was a little crazy, especially out of context; however it was a clip from a larger speech where he discussed science and tied it into his faith which is a totally appropriate, and actually respectful, thing for a Christian to do while giving a speech at a Christian school. Religion and Science do not have to be an either or and I like his critical thinking skills which he is obviously able to have and do. As long as he doesn't start suggesting people walked with dinosaurs I am going to be OK with this one...
As for geography well Obama gets the constitution wrong so I am going to be OK that New England was in the wrong place and a lesser more embarrassing reason is that I suck at geography and my son's state's puzzle is goddam impossible for me. And it's highly unlikely he even made the map... It speaks more of his team of people working on his campaign... Somewhere I am sure there is a very embarrassed college intern.
I am no die hard political advocate on any front ... And I am certainly not married to any cause or person but those are just my thoughts.
I am unaffiliated but generally vote republican for president (not last time though...mitt Romney was just so so bad). I fall in the socially liberal/fiscally conservative camp. Right now though I can't get behind any of the Republican front runners. Trump is a joke, and Ben Carson lost me when he had the opportunity to say publicly that everyone should vaccinate (a position I certainly hope he holds, as a physician), but instead pandered to anti-vaxxers. If Jed Bush would pull his head out of his ass, he might be ok? I always thought he was smarter and more moderate than his father and brother but he's really bombing right now.
Something about Hilary rubs me the wrong way. I actually like what Bernie Sanders has to say though he's just a wee bit too liberal for my liking. Who knows where I'll end up.
As far as refugees, I basically want to stab the half of my FB feed that is saying "pray for Paris" and also "i don't want refugees here." Apparently their God hates muslims but loves the french. The refugees are trying to escape the same people who perpetrated the atracks. Additionally, disallowing refugees is 100% what the terrorists want. It's much easier to recruit into terrorism people who feel marginalized from the westernized world. They think we hate them, so they have no problem fighting us. A vast majority of violent crime in this country is carried out by non-muslims. I don't see us refusing to allow white teenagers into the country because of the kid that shot up that church in SC a few months ago. What's the difference?
This country is kind of a mess. I don't even know how to start fixing it. The president doesn't even matter if Congress refuses to work across party lines like they're doing right now. Ugh.
Politics in this country reminds me of when I have my kids race to get ready for bed or to finish their lunch: we think we're competing with each other but really somebody else is pulling the strings.
Certainly there are some issues that are actually decided by elections (and as a women and mother of a daughter I will never be able to feel complacent) but really it's just the same billionaires and corporations putting us against each other while they fleece us for everything we've got.
First, thank you ladies for giving early Morning feedings something other than random Facebook surfing... I like healthy respectful discussions while my husband is so peacefully snoring away (obvious sarcasm).
@virginiaunicorn11 ... The pyramid thing was a little crazy, especially out of context; however it was a clip from a larger speech where he discussed science and tied it into his faith which is a totally appropriate, and actually respectful, thing for a Christian to do while giving a speech at a Christian school. Religion and Science do not have to be an either or and I like his critical thinking skills which he is obviously able to have and do. As long as he doesn't start suggesting people walked with dinosaurs I am going to be OK with this one...
As for geography well Obama gets the constitution wrong so I am going to be OK that New England was in the wrong place and a lesser more embarrassing reason is that I suck at geography and my son's state's puzzle is goddam impossible for me. And it's highly unlikely he even made the map... It speaks more of his team of people working on his campaign... Somewhere I am sure there is a very embarrassed college intern.
I am no die hard political advocate on any front ... And I am certainly not married to any cause or person but those are just my thoughts.
This. All of this. Plus the pyramid thing was over 17 years ago. To add to my rant from last night, maybe we should focus on what they're doing now instead of bringing up junk from nearly 20 year ago (no offense to you personally @virginiaunicorn11, I just mean in general), maybe everyone could start focusing on more recent history and the future. It makes me sad that people think that embarrassing others is the way to win. I intend to teach my kids that bringing other people down doesn't make you better than others, but then it turn on the tv and there are adults who want to run our country who think bashing and bringing others down is the way to get into a position of power. And we buy into it.
I try to be fairly generous to the candidates because I would be horrified to have everything I've ever done/said under public scrutiny. That said, Trump is a complete joke and would be an embarrassment as our president.
I try to be fairly generous to the candidates because I would be horrified to have everything I've ever done/said under public scrutiny. That said, Trump is a complete joke and would be an embarrassment as our president.
This. Can't even believe anyone is taking him seriously, honestly. That alone speaks volumes to me.
^ are people really taking him seriously? Like for real? I have thought things like "that would be quite an interesting show" if he were to win but I don't actually want, or imagine that to happen.... I do find it really cool that back to the future so freakishly predicted this scenario with the whole Biff thing... Wild.
Could not have said it better myself. I have a sibling who is a vulnerable adult with mental illness. She is able to work full time but is not allowed to because she will lose her medical insurance through disability. Why not adjust the system to supplement for people as needed, rather than fully fund? As it is now, she sits home half the day and is bored and then gets manic because she is bored... if she were able to work full time and keep her diabiliaty medical insurance... she likley wouldn't need as much support. So so stupid.
Re: Politics
What kind of tests are you thinking @hoodoll82 ?
@KonaCoffeeBean it was just an analogy that got me thinking. I'm not saying I wouldn't help them, I'm saying I want to but I'm also a bit terrified. I think I'm allowed to be.
~~~~~~
Not letting in refugees (drink!) is not going to make us safer. In fact, I believe that NOT letting in the refugees (drink!) will actually make us LESS safe in the long run. Because who joins extremist groups? People who are butthurt at the west. And I can't think of a better way to piss off a WHOLE BUNCH of people than to deny them the ability to take refuge from being killed.
Second, those politicians who say 'we need to clean up our own country first' - well, that's admirable. But you've had the problem with the VA forever, and you continue to not address it. Military pay raises are voted down. The favored way of showing disagreement isn't working to reach to resolution (like we put you in office to do), its to 'shut down the government' - which makes your military go without pay. You say you care about women and children at home? Then you should fund planned parenthood. And make programs like WIC more accessible. Worried about homelessness? A living wage would help with that. I don't know if $15 is the magic # or not, but I know for damned sure the minimum wage where I live is not a living wage. Working 40 hours a week at minimum wage in my area would pay my mortgage and leave me with $40 left over for the month. As long as I didn't pay taxes on that $. But I'm a good citizen, so I do. So now I can't afford my mortgage. And I don't have an expensive home, either.
All of these problems that supposedly need to be addressed before we allow in refugees (drink!) have been around forever, and the people saying we need to address them are the same people who are constantly against the programs that address the problems.
~~~~~~~~~
Back to the current conversation. The refugees (drink!) are already subject to investigation that sounds even harder than my husband had to go thru to join the military. Thru three separate security agencies and clearances. I don't remember the exact process, but I did read it, and it's intense. Also, unless I've missed something (and I watch ALOT of news), its been determined that the guy with the Syrian passport was actually NOT a refugee (drink!). He was a Belgian national, with a faked Syrian passport, specifically to throw suspicion on refugees (drink!), and make us fear them.
Now I have to go back thru this thread and count up how many drinks I owe
ETA, otherwise I might end up getting all cray in here.
It is like the state of Ohio, which is defunding Planned Parenthood because of the "baby parts" issue... Despite there already being a state law that outlaws it, and therefore zero chance of it happening in Ohio. So defunding state PP clinics has zero to do with the "selling baby parts" fear mongering. Instead, they are defunding HIV and STI testing and pre-natal treatment, and telling constituents they are protecting babies from being cut up.
So no. I don't find any of it valid. The questions about refugee processing, etc. are valid, if someone doesn't know facts and systems, absolutely. But the fear mongering, misinformation, and paranoia is not valid.
And the only thing I dislike more than fear-mongering is the "un-American" or "anti-American" narrative. Because what, pray tell, is this so-called "American" stance. Is it a singular position or trait? Last time I checked, the majority of voters elected Obama, twice. Seems pretty American to me.
And last, Trump is calling to register Muslims. How hateful and disgusting. People sit around and wonder how the Holocaust happened. Well, how it happened was first, Hitler registered the Jews. And no one said anything about it.
We apologize a lot on here, but I'm not apologizing. I'm angry and I'm informed and these f'ing politicians are counting on fear and complacency and ignorance. And it makes my blood boil.
ETA: I genuinely don't remember who posted what. So while I am responding to posts, I am responding to words and not individuals - I don't really know or care who said what. Because I'm as bad as the rest of them and certain I'm right. Like I said, this is why I don't like democracy.
I am also passionate about, say, school children getting a nutritious lunch everyday but I don't cook them in my own kitchen. That's what we have public schools for.
If I fear vampires eating my baby tonight, that is not a valid fear. Staying awake with garlic and a wooden stake is not a valid response. It is crazy. Vampires don't exist.
Maybe "valid" is the wrong word. But I don't believe in the "I feel this way so I am allowed to feel this way" approach. If you are making decisions based on fear and the Boogie Man doesn't exist, then no, you do not get to impact millions of people because we should respect your fear of a non-existent Boogie Man.
(Obviously terrorists exist. That's not the Boogie Man that I mean in this analogy.)
ETA: I make monthly donations to refugee organizations and we have foreigners living in our house. So I practice what I preach.
2nd round exp 8/20/18.
I know your point about geography is true in terms of amount of worry. But worry is not the same as risk, and worries are not usually statistically accurate. Most of my biggest fears are irrational because it's easier, in some ways, to fear unlikely things than realistic things.
By the time 90 days was up they had gotten a few pay checks and could cover their own rent. And they got health insurance through their jobs. No welfare. It worked.
Personally I would be 1000 times more concerned about the high numbers of Somalis we resettle. I never had much luck placing Somalis in jobs, the women would refuse to wear a small black headscarf to abide by uniform rules, they would insist on their huge multilayered hijabs. They were mostly illiterate and had been in refugee camps for so long that the idea of working was a totally foreign concept. They would promise they would take the first job offered and then purposefully bomb the interview (like I'd coach them about the importance of saying they could work any day and they'd get there and tell the interviewer they couldn't work Saturdays, Sundays or Wednesdays). They'd take their monthly cash stipends we gave them, string us along that they were really looking for a job, and then use that money to buy a one way ticket to Minneapolis on day 89. It was totally BS and I dreaded the Somali cases. If we're worried about terrorism, look at the number of Somalis who've joined al-Shabab. It's not insignificant.
Personally, I'm voting Deez Nutz in 2016.
1) to ascertain my comfort level with someone who is a refugee living in close proximity to my own family?
Well, I don't like people in my space. At all. If someone lived in my house it is *them* who should be worried about *me*. I Do. Not. Like. People. In. My. Space. I can deal for a night or two. Or, a friend and I were discussing on fb having weekly girls sleepover movie nights with our LOs, alternating weekly. I could do that. But I don't like people to stay more than a few days, and that's pushing it for me. Also, I don't have enough room for a family, and if I was going to do this thing, I would not break up a family.
However, I would have no problems with a family living next door, or if I were in an apartment and a nearby apartment was subletted out to a family by klirwin's organization, no problem. I'm not concerned about proximity of their people with mine. I like people from other countries. They keep my perspective fresh, and satisfy my itchy curiosity
2) if this question is trying to gauge my commitment to 'the cause' -
Admittedly, I do not have much money to be able to donate. However, I do have plenty of material goods like clothes, blankets, an old TV, etc I would donate if I knew a family (or families) were coming and needed them. If I had just a little more $, I could donate funds. I do have a fair amount of target gift cards I've stockpiled that could buy some shoes or jackets for refugees. I've been saving them for a rough day for us, but if I knew for sure a family from Syria was coming to my town, I know they need warm shoes and coats. I'd probably be behind the ball and they'd have gotten them already, but should I be the very first person to learn they needed coats and shoes, I'd use my gift cards and get what I could. Why not? I can buy more diapers and formula and get more gift cards.
Also, I lived in NYC from June 2010-2014. I took the subway to work from queens and worked almost in the shadow of the new world trade. I get it, NYC is not smalltownsville, USA. As far as targets go, its delicious and juicy. My hubs ran security for the UN assembly every year (not ran as in 'in charge of', ran as in 'was part of the hundreds of team members responsible for security on the water'). But for me, I know myself. My fears about the subway (or times square, or anywhere else) would be no less and no more should 10,000 refugees of war be somewhere in the US at that moment during my morning commute. Its not like they are all moving to NYC. And besides - if you see something, say something.
ETA hopefully that helps people understand my thinking. I mean, c'mon... Y'all knew I was hippy dippy. Peace and love, man
Genuine question for Ben Carson fans: what do you make of his gaffs about the pyramids, getting the U.S. geography wrong, and the recent interview with his aide saying he's got some serious issues with foreign policy?
I know people are drawn to non-politicians, and while I don't agree with that, I can see that perspective. I don't know what his supporters think of those other things that he's said/have happened, though.
TIA for being willing to share.
While I can't quite get on board with this discussion from an American perspective but being a neighbour to the North (yay Canada?) and being that our newly elected PM is hoping to succeed in accepting 25,000 Syrian refugees before Jan 1. I can probably contribute!
1) On your candidates - Just please not TRUMP! I feel like it would be a complete mockery and I would be afraid that so much hard work in terms of forming relationships would go down the drain because he thinks his sh*t doesn't stink.
2) On our candidates - I was in a similar mindset during our recent election - Just not Harper! Thankfully my preference for a candidate was successful and gained a majority government.
3) On the refugee situation I have a few perspectives..
-It's not any one person or countries responsibility to help. I believe we are one world though we have strayed so far from it. So my personal philosophy would be it's the worlds issue regardless or how many homeless or unfortunate individuals you already have.
-Here's my kicker. If one day (heaven forbid) something utterly terrible happened and there was the need for Americans or Canadians (or any other country that is considering NOT accepting refugees) to seek a safer more desirable place to leave would someone open their arms to us if we had not opened our arms to others? Hopefully.. but far less likely if we have been closed to helping others. So I guess the old proverb? Do onto others as you would have them do unto yourself... is kind of my mantra for everything. If you aren't willing to help because of your beliefs, fears, insecurities, worries, concerns etc. why should anyone else?
- I hope both countries do accept refugees from Syria. As others have pointed out it really doesn't increase the risk as far as I am concerned regarding the potential for terrorist attacks. What DOES increase the potential for terrorist attacks is our involvement and method of involvement of fighting again Isis and other terrorist organizations. I think these organizations are smart enough to figure out how to get into and around the country undetected without needing to infiltrate a group of refugees that is literally having to march through multiple countries and face death, disease and disaster every day.
4) On feelings and thinking. I would accept someone "thinking" over "feeling" anyday because feelings are tied to emotions and we all know how fallible our feelings can be. At least if you are thinking there may be "reason" behind your statement.
Just my two cents. Love the perspective that so many ladies have laid out here
Morning feedings something other than random Facebook surfing... I like healthy respectful discussions while my husband is so peacefully snoring away (obvious sarcasm).
@virginiaunicorn11 ... The pyramid thing was a little crazy, especially out of context; however it was a clip from a larger speech where he discussed science and tied it into his faith which is a totally appropriate, and actually respectful, thing for a Christian to do while giving a speech at a Christian school. Religion and Science do not have to be an either or and I like his critical thinking skills which he is obviously able to have and do. As long as he doesn't start suggesting people walked with dinosaurs I am going to be OK with this one...
As for geography well Obama gets the constitution wrong so I am going to be OK that New England was in the wrong place and a lesser more embarrassing reason is that I suck at geography and my son's state's puzzle is goddam impossible for me. And it's highly unlikely he even made the map... It speaks more of his team of people working on his campaign... Somewhere I am sure there is a very embarrassed college intern.
I am no die hard political advocate on any front ... And I am certainly not married to any cause or person but those are just my thoughts.
Something about Hilary rubs me the wrong way. I actually like what Bernie Sanders has to say though he's just a wee bit too liberal for my liking. Who knows where I'll end up.
As far as refugees, I basically want to stab the half of my FB feed that is saying "pray for Paris" and also "i don't want refugees here." Apparently their God hates muslims but loves the french. The refugees are trying to escape the same people who perpetrated the atracks. Additionally, disallowing refugees is 100% what the terrorists want. It's much easier to recruit into terrorism people who feel marginalized from the westernized world. They think we hate them, so they have no problem fighting us. A vast majority of violent crime in this country is carried out by non-muslims. I don't see us refusing to allow white teenagers into the country because of the kid that shot up that church in SC a few months ago. What's the difference?
This country is kind of a mess. I don't even know how to start fixing it. The president doesn't even matter if Congress refuses to work across party lines like they're doing right now. Ugh.
Certainly there are some issues that are actually decided by elections (and as a women and mother of a daughter I will never be able to feel complacent) but really it's just the same billionaires and corporations putting us against each other while they fleece us for everything we've got.
https://www.alternet.org/video/watch-snl-has-answer-crazy-right-wing-relatives-thanksgiving