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December 2015 Moms
Court11152325
member
Anti-vaccine family members....
Court11152325
member
I know we had a thread about this a while ago, and I did a search, but I couldn't find it.
My brother and his daughter live in Northern California where many of my niece's friends are not vaccinated and she is also not vaccinated. My brother was vaccinated as a child, but certainly has never had any during his adult life. I was avoiding talking to him about vaccines, until it came up that he would like to come visit and bring my niece soon after baby is born (end of December into early January). I had to talk to him today about my concerns with where they live and their choices. He got pretty defensive and said maybe they shouldn't come out. Blah blah blah. I told him that I wanted them to come visit, and could we compromise and have them wear masks when they hold her. He thought that was weird. The only thing he was willing to admit was that being on a plane with recycled air could be cause for concern. He kept mentioning the rate of whooping cough in the population is really low and that I would pass antibodies. I told him that it doesn't mean she's totally safe, and that it could still be given to her. We left the conversation with no real conclusion, and I told him I'd get back to him after a discussion with DH and some google searches.
So my question for you folks - does anyone have any articles with some empirical evidence that it's either not that big of a risk or even that it's too big of a risk to expose a newborn to unvaccinated individuals? I've found a few articles and I've gone to the CDC website, but it really doesn't quite get at what I'm wondering.
My brother and his daughter live in Northern California where many of my niece's friends are not vaccinated and she is also not vaccinated. My brother was vaccinated as a child, but certainly has never had any during his adult life. I was avoiding talking to him about vaccines, until it came up that he would like to come visit and bring my niece soon after baby is born (end of December into early January). I had to talk to him today about my concerns with where they live and their choices. He got pretty defensive and said maybe they shouldn't come out. Blah blah blah. I told him that I wanted them to come visit, and could we compromise and have them wear masks when they hold her. He thought that was weird. The only thing he was willing to admit was that being on a plane with recycled air could be cause for concern. He kept mentioning the rate of whooping cough in the population is really low and that I would pass antibodies. I told him that it doesn't mean she's totally safe, and that it could still be given to her. We left the conversation with no real conclusion, and I told him I'd get back to him after a discussion with DH and some google searches.
So my question for you folks - does anyone have any articles with some empirical evidence that it's either not that big of a risk or even that it's too big of a risk to expose a newborn to unvaccinated individuals? I've found a few articles and I've gone to the CDC website, but it really doesn't quite get at what I'm wondering.
Re: Anti-vaccine family members....
The sound of pertussis has some pretty powerful public service announcements too.
Thankfully, my brother and his fiance are as passionate about vaccines as I am (and my brother had a very adverse reaction to shots as an infant). With the outbreak of measles in California last year because their vaccination rates of fallen so much I would not expose my child knowingly to unvaccinated people at the height of cold and flu season before my child had any vaccinations. Your baby can be vaccinated for whooping cough starting at 8 weeks. I would really wait until at least 3 months before I even considered exposing your baby to that risk. I asked my OB about his thoughts on traveling with a newborn he said you basically want to keep them in a bubble until 3 months as far as protecting them from germs. He said as far as immunity you do want to expose them to normal germs after that because kids that don't have normal exposure to germs can develop other problems (for example, allergies are more common in first born children of more affluent families and some argue that their bodies start to over-react to normal things because they haven't been exposed to enough normal germs). I would ask your OB or Pediatrician for when your child will be reasonably safe and if they have any approaches for dealing with the situation of families hurt feelings versus your child's safety.
Your brother has made a choice as a parent and I doubt that your providing counter evidence will change his mind. However, I think you can tell your brother that he has made a choice about vaccinations and he needs to respect your choice about vaccinations and that you would be happy for him to get to know his niece/nephew once you are comfortable that your child is adequately vaccinated.
I may just have to ask him to come visit in the summer.
You can be calm with your brother and tell him that while you of course want him and his family in your lives, maybe a visit should be held off until your baby has had the chance to be fully vaccinated. Yes, you nursing provides some immune support but it isn't the same. Look up herd immunity in regards to vaccines if he needs more information as to why you nursing isn't enough protection.
To others struggling with this in regards to family visiting - I was told numerous times by my pediatrician and the NICU staff that as long as an adult has had their normal TdAP boosters they are safe around your newborn (ideally dad would have a booster before the baby is born but mom is the important one - the only time that would change is if dad or one of the other adults are exposed to school aged children on a regular basis). If you know they have not had vaccines or refuse to vaccinate their children it is within your rights as a parent to ask that they postpone their visit until your pediatrician says your little one is as protected as they can be from those who are at a higher exposure risk. Remain calm but firm with them - no need for name calling or mud-slinging. If they get heated or upset, tell them it is your right as a parent to make health decisions for your baby just as it is their right to do so for themselves and their children.
Maybe if he steps on a rusty nail ...just kidding, but seriously.
Jamie
Some unvaccinated kid gave me rubella before i was old enough for the shot and it almost killed me. If non-vaccinaters can't understand that, that sounds like their problem. I will not make it my daughter's.
As far as articles with emperical evidence, they're everywhere because this science is completely solid. Similarly to the theory of evolution however, if some anti-vaccinater were interested in emperical evidence, they would have read these articles and ensured they understood them already. So either your brother has already and has dismissed solid science as bunk (highly unlikely) or he has not read them and is not interested because he already thinks he knows better than decades of research science (highly likely).
I bet your bro is a great guy and probably a smart guy. That doesn't make him safe to be around your vulnerable baby and her delicate immune system. Tell him Skype might be better for everybody until she gets innoculated against the biggest ones (such as rubella, mumps etc) and then once she's immune, they can have a ton of facetime.
Herd immunity is the goal for all vaccines. If all eligible members of the community (or herd) are protected against the disease it acts like a barrier for those who cannot receive the vaccine and are vulnerable (such as the immunocompromised or infants too young to have received the shot yet). It also makes the disease very, very hard to spread. The more members of the "herd" who are not protected, the more exposure EVERYONE has to the disease (just takes one small leak for the whole ship to sink).
We've decided to tell him to bring my niece in the summer. Not only will this give us a chance to get her vaccinated, but it will also mean that we can go on local excursions with them to the beach and what not. I'm going to frame it both ways and hope it's not too offensive to him. It's just a crappy conversation to have with your 1 sibling willing to fly all the way across the country to see us. My other sibling hasn't even mentioned it (but they're all vaccinated, go figure).
Anyways, we are in the battles with family about this too. Anyone who wishes to visit the baby has to have a flu shot and Tdap. Our baby will be born in 2 weeks at 36 weeks gestation. I am not willing to put an already compromised immune systems into the throws of disease and illnesses we can protect them. But we have school age children so protecting them from everything is out the window for us. I plan to baby wear when needed in public and use a car seat cover to help deter people from touching or coughing or kissing baby. I also have children who are very active and I can't just stay home for 3 months either.
this could be a good way to talk to your brother without starting a vaccine discussion, op.
He can also only pass the illness along if he is a current carrier. You can't give someone something you don't have. If his daughter doesn't have pertussis, then chances are he isn't a carrier.
Being around unvaccinated people doesn't increase your risk for getting sick, if they aren't sick. I am fully vaccinated (half didn't work on me according to screenings done though) and spend most of my time around people who are unvaccinated. I have yet to contract anything that I am not immune too because they haven't contracted it.
I understand the worry is to protect your baby. Even though I have been against vaccines since high school, I still considered them for a moment because of the what if. But you have to remember that a vaccine isn't 100%, and no one can spread an illness they don't have. I can't spread measles not because of a vaccine, but because I haven't had exposure and don't have it.
You can however make sure they do not come anywhere near your house if they show any signs of illness. You can also use proper hygiene and limit touching to you child. That should help dramatically. I personally don't think it's right to ask someone to compromise their personal beliefs for you, and vaccines fall in line with that. There are many reasons people choose not to vaccinate and 90% of them have nothing to do with the whole autism thing. You might lose relationships of you can't respect someone else's informed choices for their family. If you are fine with losing that relationship then yes deny him the chance to visit, if not try to listen to what he says.