@Sammy K @Sjeff0816 one last question about the Ferber method. Would you count babble as part of the 'wait time'? DD has been waking up pleasant in the MOTN and babbles to herself for a while before crying. So I let her babble, and then waited the 3 minutes after she started whining/crying. I put the pacifier in, and rubbed her forhead, left, and she was out by the time I got back in bed. Just wondering if I waited too long, or if that was ok to start the wait time once it was more distressful sounds.
@Sammy K @Sjeff0816 one last question about the Ferber method. Would you count babble as part of the 'wait time'? DD has been waking up pleasant in the MOTN and babbles to herself for a while before crying. So I let her babble, and then waited the 3 minutes after she started whining/crying. I put the pacifier in, and rubbed her forhead, left, and she was out by the time I got back in bed. Just wondering if I waited too long, or if that was ok to start the wait time once it was more distressful sounds.
That's what I would have done too! Just start the checks with the real crying in the MOTN. She's fine babbling.
Awesome! It's working guys! I can't believe it. First day of nap scheduling with the Ferber method and she slept 3 times for around an hour each. Definitely beats the 20 minute cat naps 7 times a day. She's still waking a ton at night, but soothed back to sleep after I went in each time. Didn't eat until 5:30. Woo! Thanks for your help!
@cait7425 Awesome! I'm so glad you're seeing improvement already! Just make sure you stay consistent and hopefully things will keep getting better! I seriously love to hear when things get better for others. Everyone benefits when LO sleeps well!
I'm thinking about starting sleep training very soon. I just hope I have the nerves for it :-S
I'm currently reading Ferbers book and I do agree that there are a lot of misconceptions around his sleep training. I am actually quite enjoying the book and am learning a lot! I want to wait until I'm done the book to start sleep training, just so I have all the information I need! LO is 19 weeks tomorrow, so hoping by next week we can get going! The nights have been horrible!! @-)
@cait7425 Yay!!!! So glad things are getting better for you!!
I haven't checked in here for over a week. It's good to know that I'm instinctually implementing many of Ferbers method! Thanks for spelling out what sleep training actually is! I hope everyone's LO's are STTN soon!
It's starting. LO will be 4 months on Tuesday. Her sleep is getting less and less consistent. She's awake for longer periods of time even though she's sleepy and cranky. Really wishing I would've napped today instead of finishing housework. DH is getting negative brownie points for getting out of bed for a second before getting back under the covers, twice. If I ask for help I actually need help. :-w
I started reading Ferbers book last night. 1. LO is 15 weeks. Is he Too young? I know he says 3 months but I've read in some places to wait to 4 months. And 2. Does LO need to be out of a swaddle and Merlin suit to implement?
@jesshrou With both of mine, it was very obvious when they were ready. There was a big change in their sleeping habits and with LO, she started to want to be rocked back to sleep instead of eating. If you're not sure, I would wait a few more weeks. It might suck in between, but if they aren't developmentally ready, you won't be doing any good anyway. We just started LO at 17 weeks, with DS it was 19 weeks.
I don't know about the Merlin suit. Usually by the time they're ready to sleep train, they are rolling or at least out of the swaddle. Having their hands free usually help self-soothe. I would assume it would be best to be done swaddling, but I can't answer with 100% confidence.
Someone else posted about a pacifier. I know that is one thing most sleep experts recommend stopping because until babies are much older, they can't find their pacifier in the MOTN. If they need it to fall asleep, you'll be getting up to find the pacifier and put it back in every time. Maybe they only need it to fall asleep the first time, but it's something to think about if they need it every time.
We had a rough night. Poor LO is still stuffed up and she's running a low grade fever again. Hopefully the antibiotics for her ear infection will kick in and she'll get over this cold. Until then, it's MOTN snuggles and cuddles since there isn't much else I can do.
Which brings up a good point: don't sleep train a baby that is sick or just had shots. I feel like that is unfair. I'd also wait if you're in the middle of hardcore teething. Even when DS was STTN, I'd get up with him if he was sick or teething through 18 months.
I personally think he may be a little too young. We waited until 18 weeks even though I was dying at 15 My ped however told us it's good to do it early. I wouldn't do it while he's swaddled or in the suit. I think they are considered sleep associations, which is what you're trying to break. Might as well do away with it all now. You also want to give him access to his hands so he can self soothe. @Sammy K thoughts?
Thanks @Sammy K@Sjeff0816 He gets up every 2 hours and wants to be nursed back to sleep. He didn't use to do that so I know he can go longer. My mom is watching him while I work and she's insistent on letting him cry a little bit (not longer than 15 minutes she says) to nap which I'm not totally ok with since Im not the one there. I didn't know if helping him self soothe would make it easier. I think I'll read the book and wait until 4 months.
I'm so glad babies' and parents' sleep is getting better for so many of you! I've never read the Ferber method, but from this thread, it seems there are a lot of similarities to the Babywise books and what I did with some modifications. LO (born 6/17) has been sleeping 11-13 hrs a night for several weeks. This past week we've had some regression and extra snuggles, because she has had some horrible cold and cough going on. Press on, momma's!
The past 24 hrs... Slept from 9pm-6:45am (waking briefly every 1.5-2 hrs to eat) 10am -75 min nap (because I scooped him up after 20 mins when he started to wake and put him back to sleep) 1pm - 30 min nap 3pm - 30 min nap (while we walked, then while in Starbucks some kid screamed and woke him up. Rrrrr) 5pm - 20 min nap 8:30pm -bed again
Where did my baby who napped for 1.5-2hrs go? I
Hoping this isn't a long term schedule, it's been a few weeks like this. LO turned 4 months last week.
Edit: I should add, most nights he's in bed for 11-12 hrs, he went to bed a little later and woke up a little earlier than usual here. But this is a regular nap schedule.
I'm sorry you're going through this too @Sjeff0816
I keep playing that awful mind game of 'if you get thing juuuuust right, he'll sleep longer again', but it's probably bullshit isn't it? And they're going to nap, however they darn we'll decide too. Regardless of how hard we try.
@Sjeff0816@Sammy K I forget if I asked you both about naps already?? I want to start today and was looking online. It says for naps to stop after 30 minutes. Does that mean stop letting her cry and get her to sleep ? Or does it mean stop the nap and try again later ?
@caitlincunn I took it to mean if they're still crying after 30 min, to stop the nap and try again later, not wake them in 30 min. 2-3 hour naps are normal (for the lucky moms). My LO does OK, but she's not on a schedule so I wait for her cues and put her down. She usually makes noise for a couple minutes before falling asleep. Sometimes it's only for 45 min, we occasionally get 2-3 out of her.
Ordered Ferber's book on Amazon Saturday, so it should arrive tomorrow. I'm targeting Thanksgiving weekend for sleep training because we'll have 4 days off of work in a row, so if we're low on sleep it won't be a big deal. Also, she'll be 5 months at that point, so I won't feel bad about depriving her of MOTN feeds. She has STTN a few dozen times randomly, starting around 10 weeks, so I know she CAN do it. But I'm really looking forward to being able to place her in the crib, awake, and having her put herself to sleep, especially at nap time. She will do that for DH at nap time, but if she is aware that I am anywhere in the vicinity she will not nap unless it is on top of me. I don't mind nursing her to sleep at night, especially since she will go for at least 7 hours before waking to feed (and I feel at that point she actually is hungry), but being trapped underneath her for several hours every weekend is a bit much. I have stuff to do, kid.
I also want to make sure she's got her sleep training under control by the time we travel for Christmas. We'll be sleeping at my mom's house for a week and she'll be in a PnP. I want to make progress before that happens so that we have at least a chance that she'll sleep somewhat normally there.
After reading Dr Sears' Sleep Book, I tracked LO's naps and nighttime wake ups for 2 weeks. He said before you can deal with night issues, you need to get naps sorted.
This tracking helped me understand LO's natural schedule, and then plan around those naps more often. He still is in a "give or take an hour" phase, but we feel more able to anticipate, and LO is getting longer naps. And sleeping better at night now, too. (Probably coincidence, to be honest.)
His schedule seems to be changing again, but that's ok - I feel more prepared now.
Next step, over the next month or so, is to think about whether we can get him on an actual schedule with sleep cues, etc.
I think I've said this a few times before. But someone on here recommended the book to me. It's great for those doing baby-led/on-demand parenting, but who are still seeking some degree of control in your life. Just want to pass along the favor if I can.
@Sammy K thanks. I think I worded it weird. I meant if she was still awake after 30 mins do I stop trying and keep her up or after 30 mins do I then rock her to sleep
@delujm0 We're using Thanksgiving to "finish" sleep training too. We've eliminated the midnight and 3 am waking, but she's been waking up at 5am to eat. I think she's only eating 1-2 ounces, but I'll feel better cutting it out when she's a little older (18 weeks now). I also don't want her to wake DS at that time because it throws his sleep off and he becomes a terror. Hopefully at Thanksgiving, she'll give up that last feed and we can get everyone sleeping well before Monday.
This is definitely more difficult with DS in the house. A sleep deprived 3 yo is no fun.
@virginiaunicorn11 that was me but I need to read it again. I was so sleep deprived the first time I need a refresher! Now that I'm back at work there's not much time for reading though. I'm slowly making my way through it again. Glad your LO is sleeping a bit better. I have a feeling mine will start to sleep longer stretches once we start her on solids at 6 months. One more month to go!
@virginiaunicorn11 that was me but I need to read it again. I was so sleep deprived the first time I need a refresher! Now that I'm back at work there's not much time for reading though. I'm slowly making my way through it again. Glad your LO is sleeping a bit better. I have a feeling mine will start to sleep longer stretches once we start her on solids at 6 months. One more month to go!
@caitlincunn I think stop trying but keep her up. When she starts signaling she's tired, try again. I don't think you want to go back to rocking or she will know that is an option.
Have you tried rocking her until she's just drifting off, then starting the routine? We did this with LO. If she fell asleep rocking, setting her down usually roused her so she had to fall asleep on her own or I'd rub her back or belly to wake her enough she had to fall back asleep. I think this really helped. But there's no way it would have worked with DS, so it might not help at all. Just wanted to throw it out there.
We are supposed to be done with this leap. She is a week away from 5 months.
Yet her sleep just keeps getting worse. Now she won't nap and screams bloody murder when I put her in the crib....and was inconsolable for probably 15 minutes today (she rarely cries). It's not cold related as she lays flat without crying on her mat (I was thinking maybe her ears were clogged and pressure intensified while flat). I have no idea what else to do. I'm trying to wait it out but should I be trying to instill some different behaviors? She was a perfect sleeper before.
TTC: 1/2014
BFP: 9/24
EDD: 6/8/2015
Sorry for the poor man's siggy...ticker won't load regardless of how many tips I read.
@Sammy K sometimes if she's not In a deep sleep yet and I put her down she screams and won't go to sleep herself. Tomorrow I'm starting. Today we weren't home early enough for her nap so it's been a horrible day ha
Baby naps during the day in his Rock and play and sleeps in crib during the night. He has been sleeping crappy for a few days now. I think he is teething also. Do you ladies think he should nap in his crib always? He naps a lot longer in the rock n play.
Baby naps during the day in his Rock and play and sleeps in crib during the night. He has been sleeping crappy for a few days now. I think he is teething also. Do you ladies think he should nap in his crib always? He naps a lot longer in the rock n play.
Everything I've read says to stick to one place for all sleep. Then again, do what works for your baby!
@Sammy K sometimes if she's not In a deep sleep yet and I put her down she screams and won't go to sleep herself. Tomorrow I'm starting. Today we weren't home early enough for her nap so it's been a horrible day ha
I hope you start seeing some improvement. I never focused on naps; we focused on night sleeping first and naps fell into place. Hopefully if you start with naps, nighttime gets better too!
We focused on both naps and overnights. We followed the Ferber program exactly. Her naps are still short, but actually putting her down is SO much better. Good luck tomorrow!
You just have to wake her up after. I burp mine after she eats and it wakes her up. Then I walk her over to her crib and put her down awake but drowsy.
So LO has alwAys spit up a lot so we were told to keep her upright after eating. This resulted in her being used to being held and rocked after her bedtime bottle. She was sleeping really well and hasn't had a MOTN feeding in a few months. She's 5 months next week. She also has been sleeping on her tummy for a while now. But now that she can roll she rolls herself awake all night and I have to flip her back over and stick the paci in for her to stop. I've tried letting her cry and she has a crazy endurance and will cry forever If you let her. I'm just not sure what to do. I'll look more in detail of the Ferber way. But lord it sucks especially because she's in our room which I don't think helps either but we're stuck in this one bedroom duplex for a few more months
Maybe this has been asked already, but I couldn't find it in this thread. How do you stop MOTN feedings? LO wakes up and desperately needs a diaper change b/c she tends to leak through them at night. Once I change her diaper she's full awake, even if I don't talk or make eye contact and keep the lights off. I've lowered the amount I feed her and that seems to work for a little while. I've tried just putting her back in her crib, but she'll scream for over 30 min if I don't give her something. Am I just enabling this expectation that she'll get fed if she wakes up?
Maybe this has been asked already, but I couldn't find it in this thread. How do you stop MOTN feedings? LO wakes up and desperately needs a diaper change b/c she tends to leak through them at night. Once I change her diaper she's full awake, even if I don't talk or make eye contact and keep the lights off. I've lowered the amount I feed her and that seems to work for a little while. I've tried just putting her back in her crib, but she'll scream for over 30 min if I don't give her something. Am I just enabling this expectation that she'll get fed if she wakes up?
@alcrimmins I'm working on this myself. The doctor advised not to stop MONF cold turkey.. So my LO usually wakes up twice at night. Once around 1:30 or 2:00am and the second time around 4:00am. She said to give baby less formula second feeding than stop all together on giving second feeding this way he will wake up hungry. Unfortunately baby is going through the 4 month regression so he is all over the place right now.
Re: Baby's Sleep at 4 Months
I'm currently reading Ferbers book and I do agree that there are a lot of misconceptions around his sleep training. I am actually quite enjoying the book and am learning a lot! I want to wait until I'm done the book to start sleep training, just so I have all the information I need! LO is 19 weeks tomorrow, so hoping by next week we can get going! The nights have been horrible!! @-)
I believe @Sjeff0816 recommended this website
https://noobmommy.com/2008/11/to-ferberize-or-not-to-ferberize.html
Thank you!! It's been a really good read! Good luck to everyone!
I haven't checked in here for over a week. It's good to know that I'm instinctually implementing many of Ferbers method! Thanks for spelling out what sleep training actually is! I hope everyone's LO's are STTN soon!
@jesshrou With both of mine, it was very obvious when they were ready. There was a big change in their sleeping habits and with LO, she started to want to be rocked back to sleep instead of eating. If you're not sure, I would wait a few more weeks. It might suck in between, but if they aren't developmentally ready, you won't be doing any good anyway. We just started LO at 17 weeks, with DS it was 19 weeks.
I don't know about the Merlin suit. Usually by the time they're ready to sleep train, they are rolling or at least out of the swaddle. Having their hands free usually help self-soothe. I would assume it would be best to be done swaddling, but I can't answer with 100% confidence.
Someone else posted about a pacifier. I know that is one thing most sleep experts recommend stopping because until babies are much older, they can't find their pacifier in the MOTN. If they need it to fall asleep, you'll be getting up to find the pacifier and put it back in every time. Maybe they only need it to fall asleep the first time, but it's something to think about if they need it every time.
We had a rough night. Poor LO is still stuffed up and she's running a low grade fever again. Hopefully the antibiotics for her ear infection will kick in and she'll get over this cold. Until then, it's MOTN snuggles and cuddles since there isn't much else I can do.
Which brings up a good point: don't sleep train a baby that is sick or just had shots. I feel like that is unfair. I'd also wait if you're in the middle of hardcore teething. Even when DS was STTN, I'd get up with him if he was sick or teething through 18 months.
Eta: oops we waited until 17.5 weeks.
He gets up every 2 hours and wants to be nursed back to sleep. He didn't use to do that so I know he can go longer. My mom is watching him while I work and she's insistent on letting him cry a little bit (not longer than 15 minutes she says) to nap which I'm not totally ok with since Im not the one there. I didn't know if helping him self soothe would make it easier. I think I'll read the book and wait until 4 months.
Press on, momma's!
Slept from 9pm-6:45am (waking briefly every 1.5-2 hrs to eat)
10am -75 min nap (because I scooped him up after 20 mins when he started to wake and put him back to sleep)
1pm - 30 min nap
3pm - 30 min nap (while we walked, then while in Starbucks some kid screamed and woke him up. Rrrrr)
5pm - 20 min nap
8:30pm -bed again
Where did my baby who napped for 1.5-2hrs go? I
Hoping this isn't a long term schedule, it's been a few weeks like this. LO turned 4 months last week.
Edit: I should add, most nights he's in bed for 11-12 hrs, he went to bed a little later and woke up a little earlier than usual here. But this is a regular nap schedule.
I keep playing that awful mind game of 'if you get thing juuuuust right, he'll sleep longer again', but it's probably bullshit isn't it? And they're going to nap, however they darn we'll decide too. Regardless of how hard we try.
What's your LO 's temperament like?
Ordered Ferber's book on Amazon Saturday, so it should arrive tomorrow. I'm targeting Thanksgiving weekend for sleep training because we'll have 4 days off of work in a row, so if we're low on sleep it won't be a big deal. Also, she'll be 5 months at that point, so I won't feel bad about depriving her of MOTN feeds. She has STTN a few dozen times randomly, starting around 10 weeks, so I know she CAN do it. But I'm really looking forward to being able to place her in the crib, awake, and having her put herself to sleep, especially at nap time. She will do that for DH at nap time, but if she is aware that I am anywhere in the vicinity she will not nap unless it is on top of me. I don't mind nursing her to sleep at night, especially since she will go for at least 7 hours before waking to feed (and I feel at that point she actually is hungry), but being trapped underneath her for several hours every weekend is a bit much. I have stuff to do, kid.
I also want to make sure she's got her sleep training under control by the time we travel for Christmas. We'll be sleeping at my mom's house for a week and she'll be in a PnP. I want to make progress before that happens so that we have at least a chance that she'll sleep somewhat normally there.
This tracking helped me understand LO's natural schedule, and then plan around those naps more often. He still is in a "give or take an hour" phase, but we feel more able to anticipate, and LO is getting longer naps. And sleeping better at night now, too. (Probably coincidence, to be honest.)
His schedule seems to be changing again, but that's ok - I feel more prepared now.
Next step, over the next month or so, is to think about whether we can get him on an actual schedule with sleep cues, etc.
I think I've said this a few times before. But someone on here recommended the book to me. It's great for those doing baby-led/on-demand parenting, but who are still seeking some degree of control in your life. Just want to pass along the favor if I can.
This is definitely more difficult with DS in the house. A sleep deprived 3 yo is no fun.
Have you tried rocking her until she's just drifting off, then starting the routine? We did this with LO. If she fell asleep rocking, setting her down usually roused her so she had to fall asleep on her own or I'd rub her back or belly to wake her enough she had to fall back asleep. I think this really helped. But there's no way it would have worked with DS, so it might not help at all. Just wanted to throw it out there.
We are supposed to be done with this leap. She is a week away from 5 months.
Yet her sleep just keeps getting worse. Now she won't nap and screams bloody murder when I put her in the crib....and was inconsolable for probably 15 minutes today (she rarely cries). It's not cold related as she lays flat without crying on her mat (I was thinking maybe her ears were clogged and pressure intensified while flat). I have no idea what else to do. I'm trying to wait it out but should I be trying to instill some different behaviors? She was a perfect sleeper before.
BFP #1 12/23/13 MMC 01/24/14 @ 9w5days
https://community.today.com/parentingteam/post/please-stop-measuring-success-in-sleep
BFP #1 12/23/13 MMC 01/24/14 @ 9w5days