Forced into the FLU Shot ?

Maganda92 · October 2015

Has anyone else been skeptical of the flu vaccine? My Doctor has been trying to scare me into the shot since its flu season and pregnant woman are more at risk. I hear it is safe for the baby, However, Ive never agreed with this vaccine that everyone is pretty much forced to take. I'd rather stay healthy naturally & organically.

jonesl12 · October 2015

SMH... There's like 1000 posts on this. Type " flu shot" in the search and you will get tons of answers that are already waiting for you.
Nobody is forcing you to get it, however I have worked in healthcare for 8 years and can tell you in that time I have seen the flu kill elderly and come very close to killing a pregnant woman in her second trimester. I have seen multiple pregnant women hospitalized due to the flu and wouldn't wish that upon anybody.

xostephbby · October 2015

NO vaccines have been proven safe for a pregnant woman and her baby! please do your research before you get any vaccinations. and if you want to stay healthy naturally and organically, you should do just that

mom5411 · October 2015

I work in prenatal. Don't get the flu shot. It's never been studied in pregnant women. If you want to get it after pregnancy that's your call. If you look on the package insert it actually says not intended for pregnant women. Not to mention the CDC has admitted is not effective (you can simply look on their website to see that). Same with DTAP (the other shot that pregnant women are pressured into). Doctors offices and hospitals pressure people into getting these because of money. They lose certain funding if their patients (and employees) don't get them. It drives me crazy how doctors use fear mongering to get people to get these shots. That's not evidence based care.

DougalMcG · October 2015

mom5411 said:
I work in prenatal. Don't get the flu shot. It's never been studied in pregnant women.

From the CDC website:

"Studies of several thousand pregnant women in scientific literature have assessed the safety of using the flu vaccine during pregnancy. These studies have shown no evidence of harm to pregnant women, to the unborn child (or fetus) or to newborns of vaccinated women. In fact, studies have shown that vaccinating a pregnant woman can give her baby antibodies to protect against flu for six months after they are born. In addition, the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) and CDC's routine monitoring of adverse events has not raised safety concerns."

What am I missing here?
Eta: also what do you do in prenatal? Are you a doctor?

jonesl12 · October 2015

mom5411 said:
I work in prenatal. Don't get the flu shot. It's never been studied in pregnant women. If you want to get it after pregnancy that's your call. If you look on the package insert it actually says not intended for pregnant women. Not to mention the CDC has admitted is not effective (you can simply look on their website to see that). Same with DTAP (the other shot that pregnant women are pressured into). Doctors offices and hospitals pressure people into getting these because of money. They lose certain funding if their patients (and employees) don't get them. It drives me crazy how doctors use fear mongering to get people to get these shots. That's not evidence based care.

Not true. I work for a ob/gyn and sports medicine and we have never ever offered a vaccine or any patient care for $$. We barely break even on vaccines and in some cases we even loose money!
I dunno where you work or how your office or facility runs things but it's wrong and I would be finding a new job.
I hardly believe you work "prenatal" and not understand how important certain vaccines are and how they can save lives.

SarahAnne15917 · October 2015

Oh man. Trying to stay positive on this subject and not scream at the top of my lungs is proving to be harder and harder every day. The flu is a serious thing. And if you're truly that concerned about the well being of your baby, then you should probably get a flu shot. The risks, which are minimal, are so worth the reward. Until you've first handedly seen the effects of being 'not vaccinated' (the flu shot included) on infants and children, unless you've rendered care for a child that had the flu(the REAL flu), until you've had to tell parents that their infant didn't make it (respiratory arrest secondary to the flu), your argument is completely and totally invalid. Get the flu shot, end of story.

spatter1 · October 2015

I also work with ob-gyns. I have observed many ob-gyn offices and many studies have also shown that reimbursement for vaccines is inadequate for specialty medicine like ob-gyns therefore money is not a motivator for them to offer vaccines. But they do anyway because they know how important they are for their patients. I urge people to do REAL research on the subject instead of just reading fear-mongering blogs that have no scientific backing. If you don't know that Tdap (the shot for pregnant women) and DTaP (the shot for kids) are two different things, you haven't done all your research on the subject.

No medication (not just vaccines) has been "proven safe" in pregnant women by FDA categories. This doesn't mean that studies have not been done, as PPs have pointed out. The flu shot has been given safely to millions of pregnant women since the 60s and actually, studies show that the flu vaccine can reduce the risk of preterm birth and other complications from influenza. CDC's immunization schedule is decided on by a committee of experts who carefully review safety and efficacy data before recommending a vaccine for any population. ACOG also recommends flu shots for all pregnant patients in any trimester. These organizations would not recommend flu shots for pregnant women if they weren't safe.

I understand we're all concerned about what we're putting in our bodies right now so you're right to seek information on this and many other topics. All I ask is that you please do your research on reputable, science-based sites before you make your decision. I've worked in immunizations (not for government organizations) for a long time and would be happy to answer any questions or point you to some great resources and studies if you're interested.

akb1125 · October 2015

These type of posts make me sad for the world. People just spout off their opinion with no medical background or facts to support what they're saying and scare people into believing they're right.

The flu vaccine will protect you, your unborn child, and your child after birth. Please get it. It's not worth the risk.

mrstmoose · October 2015

***lurking from May BMB***

Please get a flu shot. Everyone around you will be happy. Don't get upset if you get sick because you don't, your chance is higher since the strain of flu changes every year. Also, as someone who is high risk prior to pregnancy (asthma), I think it's great when everyone gets it because that means my risk of getting sick/being hospitalized/or dying goes down dramatically.

So, thanks.

***lurks back into the shadows***

thaisac1 · October 2015

mom5411 said:
I work in prenatal. Don't get the flu shot. It's never been studied in pregnant women. If you want to get it after pregnancy that's your call. If you look on the package insert it actually says not intended for pregnant women. Not to mention the CDC has admitted is not effective (you can simply look on their website to see that). Same with DTAP (the other shot that pregnant women are pressured into). Doctors offices and hospitals pressure people into getting these because of money. They lose certain funding if their patients (and employees) don't get them. It drives me crazy how doctors use fear mongering to get people to get these shots. That's not evidence based care.

I am a doctor and disagree with every single word you have typed. I studied Medicine for 14 years after high school to be the specialist I am today, and even after graduating I continue studying and updating my knowledge - a story who is similar to most physicians' out there. When we recommend something, it is not based on Google or on blogs; it is based on books, articles, guidelines and science.

What you write is an immense insult to me and my colleagues; not to mention a huge retrocess in science and health. I am concerned about you "working with prenatal" with an attitude like this.

Jules08 · October 2015

The ignorance in this post makes me stabby. Please get the flu shot, there are those of us who cannot get it, but really should. We depend on herd immunity.

mom5411 · October 2015

I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.

BrittnyS10 · October 2015

mom5411 said:
I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.

Is anything in this world 100% safe??

RoseShadow873 · October 2015

mom5411 said:

I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.

You sound pretty closed minded as well as condescending. I'm not sure what you think is going to happen if people get the vaccine.

loveymay · October 2015

mom5411 said:
I work in prenatal. Don't get the flu shot. It's never been studied in pregnant women. If you want to get it after pregnancy that's your call. If you look on the package insert it actually says not intended for pregnant women. Not to mention the CDC has admitted is not effective (you can simply look on their website to see that). Same with DTAP (the other shot that pregnant women are pressured into). Doctors offices and hospitals pressure people into getting these because of money. They lose certain funding if their patients (and employees) don't get them. It drives me crazy how doctors use fear mongering to get people to get these shots. That's not evidence based care.

My doctor urged me to go elsewhere to get the flu shot, either at work if offered or a clinic or something, because it would be cheaper that way. If I go to her for it, I'd have to pay a copay for the visit. I don't think that was pressuring me into getting it "for the money."

I've had the flu shot several times and had no issues. I missed it last year and got the flu. It was awful! You better believe I'll be getting it this year, no way to I want to battle being pregnant with the flu.

loveymay · October 2015

RoseShadow873 said:

mom5411 said:

I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.

You sound pretty closed minded as well as condescending. I'm not sure what you think is going to happen if people get the vaccine.

They won't get the flu, that's what will happen. And then she'll have to find some other crazy bandwagon to jump on.

thaisac1 · October 2015

mom5411 said:
I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.

I'm not close minded at all; in fact I am a scientist myself and for that reason very open to new scientific discoveries.

To help settle this issue once and for all:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20965490/

The reported rate of spontaneous abortion after flu vaccine was 1.9 per 1 million women. You have higher odds of being struck by lightening (1 in 12,000)...

Now compare to this:

https://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/8/1157.abstract?ijkey=dcc9e046f24034f1c8ed6287547ebfbf51a82167&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha?linkType=ABST&journalCode=jinfdis&resid=204/8/1157

Influenza pandemics led to miscarriages in 1 out of 10 women.

AND

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24365800/?i=1&from=pregnancy complications AND influenza&filters=MetaAnalysis

Maternal infection with influenza increased the risk of congenital abnormalities in the fetus by 2-fold; increased the risk of neural tube defects by 3.3-fold, the risk of hydrocephalus by 5.7 fold, the risk of heart defects by 1.6-fold, and the list goes on.

AND

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23323868/?i=20&from=fetal death AND influenza

In this study of 117,347 pregnant women, influenza illness was associated with a 91% increase in the risk of fetal death. On the other hand, flu vaccination substantially decreased the risk of maternal influenza diagnosis (by 70%). I should mention that the journal where this study was published is one of the highest-impact medical journals, and highly selective about the research they do publish.

And I did not even mention the maternal outcomes with influenza illness, which include higher rates of severe respiratory Ilness, hospitalizations and death compared to non-pregnant, immunocompetent women...

If you have ever conducted clinical research or a systematic review and meta-analysis, or been asked to peer-review Scientific articles (I do/ have done all 3), you will know that scientific evidence is never, ever 100% uniform. There will always be findings on each side of the scale for any topic. This is why the governmental agencies and medical societies have panels of experts who review all of the available evidence, critically appraise it, discuss it and only then come up with a consensual recommendation that is then released to the public in the form of consensus statements or guidelines. This is the mechanism that has led the CDC and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists to unequivocally recommend the influenza vaccine to pregnant women. No one is pulling this out of a hat - this is a very serious, rigorous and lengthy process.

I did not write this long post to convince you - I realize you are a lost case. I wrote this post because I anticipate that several women will read this thread, and I do not want them to be misled.

DougalMcG · October 2015

mom5411 said:
I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.

Hang on a tick. Do you mean the Cochrane Review? As in the one headquartered in London that collaborates with the NHS R&D department? If so, then the NHS has read through every single one of those studies to come up with their flu jab policy for pregnant women. Which is: get it. It's safe. If you don't, you're putting yourself and your baby at risk.

So I will ask again: are you a doctor?

JadaBlue · October 2015

@mom5411 Has influenza been proven 100% safe for pregnant women and their fetuses?

thaisac1 · October 2015

JadaBlue said:
@mom5411 Has influenza been proven 100% safe for pregnant women and their fetuses?

Be careful how you frame your question, as nothing in the world is 100% safe. Perhaps drinking water is "100%safe", but everything else in life has some risk - some negligible, some high.

mom5411 · October 2015

In a midwife and a birth advocate. What kind of doctor are you? An OB? Immunologist? There are a lot of us in the field who are doing more and more research on vaccines in pregnancy and we are concluding that they are not 100% safe. And when it comes to pregnancy and putting things into your body, you want to be 100%sure it will do no harm. Right now we cannot price that vaccines do no harm 100%. As a doctor is it not am oath you take to do no harm? Yet you blanket statement vaccines are safe and ANYONE who does a little research knows that they are not. Have you even bothered to look into this before you toot the safety or are you just parroting what you have been told? It's irresponsible to simply tell moms to be that vaccines are safe and to just get them without 1 knowing all the facts and 2 knowing the patient personally. Women deserve to know all the facts (pros and cons) before they make their own decision as to whether or not they should inject themselves with something that has KNOWN side effects. I'm sorry but the benefit does NOT outweigh the risk here. After and before pregnancy vaccines are of lower risk but not during. Do you even know what is in them?

SarahAnne15917 · October 2015

JadaBlue said:
@mom5411 Has influenza been proven 100% safe for pregnant women and their fetuses?

Has ANYTHING been proven 100% safe for anyone? I know it's a natural, maternal instinct to want to do everything possible to keep your little bean safe, and excuse my language, but for christs sake, EVERYTHING is dangerous! There's probably been a pregnant woman that choked on a payaya somewhere, guess papayas aren't 100% safe anymore. I've accidentally cut my fingernails too short and started to bleed, better get rid of those too.
Seriously.
There is not ONE medication, ONE treatment, ONE ANYTHING that can be deemed '100% safe for mom and baby'
Everything has side effects, literally everything.
There are people in this world that DEPEND on herd immunity, and those of us that are capable of being vaccinated need to take the initiative, be responsible, and get it done.
You can crunch numbers all day long to support what I say or what you think or really whatever you want, because the fact remains that no matter what you wish to argue, there's going to be some type of 'fact' to support it.
But I'm telling you this- walk into a NICU, or even a standard ICU and watch an infant or child suffer from the respiratory flu. I promise you'll change your tune. Especially when you realize that it (POSSIBLY) could've been avoided. I'm not as obtuse to believe that every single person that gets vaccinated is no longer susceptible to said illness, but I do know that chances have been proven to be lower when you do recive the flu shot (see, found research supporting what I think. Told ya, you can find just about anything on the Internet.)

mom5411 · October 2015

So for the original OP,your best bet is to do your own research. Don't let anyone tell you you're not qualified to do so. Make your decisions based on what YOU feel is right for YOUR body regardless of what anyone else says because at the end of the day you're the one who has to deal with the outcome. If you want honest answers you'll have to ask this question in a more natural minded forum with people who look at both sides of the coin. It sounds like you don't really want to get this vaccine and If you truly don't, then you don't have to. Eating healthy, getting rest and being physically active will help your immune system fight off disease. Most women who end up in hospital due to flu are because of dehydration. And no they don't lose their babies like some doctors will have you believe. There is too much fear mongering when it comes to this. Don't let yourself get caught up in it.

JadaBlue · October 2015

Huh, surprised my sarcasm apparently wasn't clear. My point is that @mom5411 is very strident about vaccines not being "100% safe" without seeming to weigh whatever risk she perceives with the flu vaccine against the obvious risks posed by influenza to pregnant women.

thaisac1 · October 2015

mom5411 said:
In a midwife and a birth advocate. What kind of doctor are you? An OB? Immunologist? There are a lot of us in the field who are doing more and more research on vaccines in pregnancy and we are concluding that they are not 100% safe. And when it comes to pregnancy and putting things into your body, you want to be 100%sure it will do no harm. Right now we cannot price that vaccines do no harm 100%. As a doctor is it not am oath you take to do no harm? Yet you blanket statement vaccines are safe and ANYONE who does a little research knows that they are not. Have you even bothered to look into this before you toot the safety or are you just parroting what you have been told? It's irresponsible to simply tell moms to be that vaccines are safe and to just get them without 1 knowing all the facts and 2 knowing the patient personally. Women deserve to know all the facts (pros and cons) before they make their own decision as to whether or not they should inject themselves with something that has KNOWN side effects. I'm sorry but the benefit does NOT outweigh the risk here. After and before pregnancy vaccines are of lower risk but not during. Do you even know what is in them?

I'm not sure why you keep assuming that "I don't do my research". I just posted several articles for you, above, to reflect upon as a quick example of the extensive research I have done on this topic. Doing research is part of my job description; now that I am pregnant I research all issues that pertain to my current health status.

Your comments are naive and extremist. Nothing in the world is 100% safe. Heck, getting pregnant is not "100% safe"! I'll give you another example: even something as simple as taking a multivitamin or an iron supplement has been shown to have small increases in risk of death! https://archinte.jamanetwork.com/Mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1105975&resultClick=1 nothing is "100% safe"...

Other example: I am a cardiologist and I recommend a baby aspirin to all of my patients with a heart attack (minus the allergic ones, of course). This baby aspirin alone immediately decreases the risk of death by 23% and the risk of re-infarction by 46%. But taking a baby aspirin also Has potential for harm: 1 in 1000 people taking aspirin for a 20 year period will bleed to death. Now compare the odds and understand why aspirin is uniformly recommended by all physicians and societies to people with heart attacks.

These are just illustrative points to remind everyone that a responsible healthcare provider looks at BOTH sides of every coin before making a recommendation. Precisely because NOTHING in Medicine is "100% safe", the number needed to treat (NNT) and the number needed to harm (NNH) are carefully weighted before the societies make a guideline recommendation. It is this type of rigorous, unbiased evaluation of the literature that has led all of the societies to recommend flu vaccination in pregnant women.

And please, don't ever question my Hippocratic Oath. You insult me, yet again.

thaisac1 · October 2015

mom5411 said:
So for the original OP,your best bet is to do your own research. Don't let anyone tell you you're not qualified to do so. Make your decisions based on what YOU feel is right for YOUR body regardless of what anyone else says because at the end of the day you're the one who has to deal with the outcome. If you want honest answers you'll have to ask this question in a more natural minded forum with people who look at both sides of the coin. It sounds like you don't really want to get this vaccine and If you truly don't, then you don't have to. Eating healthy, getting rest and being physically active will help your immune system fight off disease. Most women who end up in hospital due to flu are because of dehydration. And no they don't lose their babies like some doctors will have you believe. There is too much fear mongering when it comes to this. Don't let yourself get caught up in it.

***facepalm***

thaisac1 · October 2015

JadaBlue said:
Huh, surprised my sarcasm apparently wasn't clear. My point is that @mom5411 is very strident about vaccines not being "100% safe" without seeming to weigh whatever risk she perceives with the flu vaccine against the obvious risks posed by influenza to pregnant women.

Sorry I misunderstood you. It's hard to know what to believe in threads like this.

JanelandSteve2001 · October 2015

Oh boy..My doctor said she highly recommended it. I don't think our doctors will lead us in the wrong directions. And if you aren't sure, dont do it. No one is forcing you. When in doubt, throw it out!

AmadorRose · October 2015

@thaisac1

NachosAndPeaches · October 2015

mom5411 said:
In a midwife and a birth advocate. What kind of doctor are you? An OB? Immunologist? There are a lot of us in the field who are doing more and more research on vaccines in pregnancy and we are concluding that they are not 100% safe. And when it comes to pregnancy and putting things into your body, you want to be 100%sure it will do no harm. Right now we cannot price that vaccines do no harm 100%. As a doctor is it not am oath you take to do no harm? Yet you blanket statement vaccines are safe and ANYONE who does a little research knows that they are not. Have you even bothered to look into this before you toot the safety or are you just parroting what you have been told? It's irresponsible to simply tell moms to be that vaccines are safe and to just get them without 1 knowing all the facts and 2 knowing the patient personally. Women deserve to know all the facts (pros and cons) before they make their own decision as to whether or not they should inject themselves with something that has KNOWN side effects. I'm sorry but the benefit does NOT outweigh the risk here. After and before pregnancy vaccines are of lower risk but not during. Do you even know what is in them?

You know what's not 100% safe? A gun safe. I could totally get my fingers stuck in there. They could even bleed. One in a million people who get their finger stuck may need to have their finger amputated. Therefore I conclude that all gun owners should not own gun safes. It's not worth the risk!!!!

Achieverjo · October 2015

I got mine recently at the recommendation of my doctor. The only thing you need to make sure of is that it is preservative free.

And it was 100% covered by my insurance, so I didn't pay any additional costs.

I just can't imagine being pregnant with 104F temperature, which is how high my fever got when I was 17.

It's your choice to get one, but why would you risk it? If you get the flu, you can only take small amounts of Tylenol while you are pregnant. So factor in fever, malaise, chills, cough and possibly nausea without hardly any medicinal relief on top of the potential risk to you and your baby...

Honestly, it seems like an obvious choice to me to get it.

RoseGold10 · October 2015

OP, I don't really get why you posted a 2nd thread on this. You've gotten plenty, and I mean PLENTY, of feedback on this, so if you're still questioning even after all that, I don't really know what anyone here can do for you. Nobody can force you to get the shot if you really don't want to, and it seems like you've already made up your mind, so what's left to discuss?

NachosAndPeaches · October 2015

RoseGold10 said:
OP, I don't really get why you posted a 2nd thread on this. You've gotten plenty, and I mean PLENTY, of feedback on this, so if you're still questioning even after all that, I don't really know what anyone here can do for you. Nobody can force you to get the shot if you really don't want to, and it seems like you've already made up your mind, so what's left to discuss?

They were posted at the same time, probably an Internet issue or accident, and we all commented on one at first and are now commenting on this one.

RoseGold10 · October 2015

NachosAndPeaches said:

OP, I don't really get why you posted a 2nd thread on this. You've gotten plenty, and I mean PLENTY, of feedback on this, so if you're still questioning even after all that, I don't really know what anyone here can do for you. Nobody can force you to get the shot if you really don't want to, and it seems like you've already made up your mind, so what's left to discuss?
They were posted at the same time, probably an Internet issue or accident, and we all commented on one at first and are now commenting on this one.

Gotcha-sorry (sorta? lol) OP.

These threads, though...SMH. I know I don't have to read every post on here but it's kind of enough to make me not read anything on here. No GBCB or anything, but, just, UGH

DougalMcG · October 2015

So you're not a doctor. You don't know the difference between dtap and tdap and you get your peer reviewed evidence from the "chocraine" reviews

.

AmadorRose · October 2015

@DougalMcG if my OB looked like that, I'd have a home birth and get vaccinated at CVS.

BrittnyS10 · October 2015

To those that avoid anything that is not 100% safe, i dont know how you are still alive. Even drinking water has the possibility of being contaminated, so do you not drink water?
Yes there are risks from getting a flu shot, some people are allergic to ingredients in the shot (and thus it is not recommended for them), and there are risks from getting Influenza. I have seen several people actually die from Influenza. Nothing is 100% safe so you have to weigh the pros and cons. What is safer to me? Risking a reaction to the influenza vaccine, or risking getting influenza (because i can 100% guarantee you i will be exposed due to where i work)? If i have a chance to avoid influenza by getting a vaccine im definitely going to take that chance. The risks of complications from getting the vaccine are very low, whereas the risk of complications from getting influenza while pregnant are much higher. For those cencerned about the preservatives in the vaccine, ask your provider if you can have the preservative free one, if they dont have it available in their office ask where else you might be able to get it.

cmjenkies · October 2015

We are allllll dooooooomed. **dunn dunn dunnnnnn**

spatter1 · October 2015

thaisac1 said:

mom5411 said:
I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.
I'm not close minded at all; in fact I am a scientist myself and for that reason very open to new scientific discoveries.

To help settle this issue once and for all:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20965490/

The reported rate of spontaneous abortion after flu vaccine was 1.9 per 1 million women. You have higher odds of being struck by lightening (1 in 12,000)...

Now compare to this:

https://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/8/1157.abstract?ijkey=dcc9e046f24034f1c8ed6287547ebfbf51a82167&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha?linkType=ABST&journalCode=jinfdis&resid=204/8/1157

Influenza pandemics led to miscarriages in 1 out of 10 women.

AND

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24365800/?i=1&from=pregnancy complications AND influenza&filters=MetaAnalysis

Maternal infection with influenza increased the risk of congenital abnormalities in the fetus by 2-fold; increased the risk of neural tube defects by 3.3-fold, the risk of hydrocephalus by 5.7 fold, the risk of heart defects by 1.6-fold, and the list goes on.

AND

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23323868/?i=20&from=fetal death AND influenza

In this study of 117,347 pregnant women, influenza illness was associated with a 91% increase in the risk of fetal death. On the other hand, flu vaccination substantially decreased the risk of maternal influenza diagnosis (by 70%). I should mention that the journal where this study was published is one of the highest-impact medical journals, and highly selective about the research they do publish.

And I did not even mention the maternal outcomes with influenza illness, which include higher rates of severe respiratory Ilness, hospitalizations and death compared to non-pregnant, immunocompetent women...

If you have ever conducted clinical research or a systematic review and meta-analysis, or been asked to peer-review Scientific articles (I do/ have done all 3), you will know that scientific evidence is never, ever 100% uniform. There will always be findings on each side of the scale for any topic. This is why the governmental agencies and medical societies have panels of experts who review all of the available evidence, critically appraise it, discuss it and only then come up with a consensual recommendation that is then released to the public in the form of consensus statements or guidelines. This is the mechanism that has led the CDC and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists to unequivocally recommend the influenza vaccine to pregnant women. No one is pulling this out of a hat - this is a very serious, rigorous and lengthy process.

I did not write this long post to convince you - I realize you are a lost case. I wrote this post because I anticipate that several women will read this thread, and I do not want them to be misled.

BOOM. [insert mic drop]

cosmobella · October 2015

Medical professionals do not speak in terms of "100% safe" because nothing is. That concept is a fantasy that people gravitate toward to try to discredit things that they fear. Fear of possible outcomes is a very real driving force behind our decisions and wondering about safety is natural especially during pregnancy. That said, the facts speak for themselves- there is no huge flu shot conspiracy. If some people cannot grasp that the benefits of the flu shot outweigh the risk, they just don't want to see the facts for what they are. It is really sad because real people die from the flu every year.

Also, I'm guessing no one has looked into the safety of pregnancy itself. It is the highest risk time in a young woman's life (heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, etc.) and we're all here rolling the dice all willy nilly...

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