I personally take a risk every year and prefer to do so. I have received the flu shot 4 times in my entire life. Each time I did, I became sick. One time being with my LO. I got very Ill as did he. We were sick for 2 weeks and hospitalized. We haven't gotten them since he was a year old and he's been absolutely healthy. Everyone's body is different one shot cannot be made for everyone.
I personally take a risk every year and prefer to do so. I have received the flu shot 4 times in my entire life. Each time I did, I became sick. One time being with my LO. I got very Ill as did he. We were sick for 2 weeks and hospitalized. We haven't gotten them since he was a year old and he's been absolutely healthy. Everyone's body is different one shot cannot be made for everyone.
I have had similar experiences, but please don't recommend to people not getting it! We are relying on what's called herd immunity from everyone else not being carriers for the flu. I recommend everyone, who doesn't have our issues doing it, because 99/100 people are fine taking the shot, and it doesn't harm them.
I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.
I'm not close minded at all; in fact I am a scientist myself and for that reason very open to new scientific discoveries.
The reported rate of spontaneous abortion after flu vaccine was 1.9 per 1 million women. You have higher odds of being struck by lightening (1 in 12,000)...
Maternal infection with influenza increased the risk of congenital abnormalities in the fetus by 2-fold; increased the risk of neural tube defects by 3.3-fold, the risk of hydrocephalus by 5.7 fold, the risk of heart defects by 1.6-fold, and the list goes on.
In this study of 117,347 pregnant women, influenza illness was associated with a 91% increase in the risk of fetal death. On the other hand, flu vaccination substantially decreased the risk of maternal influenza diagnosis (by 70%). I should mention that the journal where this study was published is one of the highest-impact medical journals, and highly selective about the research they do publish.
And I did not even mention the maternal outcomes with influenza illness, which include higher rates of severe respiratory Ilness, hospitalizations and death compared to non-pregnant, immunocompetent women...
If you have ever conducted clinical research or a systematic review and meta-analysis, or been asked to peer-review Scientific articles (I do/ have done all 3), you will know that scientific evidence is never, ever 100% uniform. There will always be findings on each side of the scale for any topic. This is why the governmental agencies and medical societies have panels of experts who review all of the available evidence, critically appraise it, discuss it and only then come up with a consensual recommendation that is then released to the public in the form of consensus statements or guidelines. This is the mechanism that has led the CDC and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists to unequivocally recommend the influenza vaccine to pregnant women. No one is pulling this out of a hat - this is a very serious, rigorous and lengthy process.
I did not write this long post to convince you - I realize you are a lost case. I wrote this post because I anticipate that several women will read this thread, and I do not want them to be misled.
Medical professionals do not speak in terms of "100% safe" because nothing is. That concept is a fantasy that people gravitate toward to try to discredit things that they fear. Fear of possible outcomes is a very real driving force behind our decisions and wondering about safety is natural especially during pregnancy. That said, the facts speak for themselves- there is no huge flu shot conspiracy. If some people cannot grasp that the benefits of the flu shot outweigh the risk, they just don't want to see the facts for what they are. It is really sad because real people die from the flu every year.
Also, I'm guessing no one has looked into the safety of pregnancy itself. It is the highest risk time in a young woman's life (heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, etc.) and we're all here rolling the dice all willy nilly...
You bring a very good point. I had mentioned this but you elaborated well. I just spoke at a Women's Heart Health Symposium , and one of the things we discussed is how pregnancy is a woman' s first stress test. And women that develop gestational diabetes or hypertensive complications of pregnancy have much higher future risk of heart attack and stroke - in fact the same risk conferred by smoking or diabetes mellitus. Pregnancy is a risky time in the lives of healthy young women, so let's do as much as we can to avoid other risks that can potentially be prevented.
In a midwife and a birth advocate. What kind of doctor are you? An OB? Immunologist? There are a lot of us in the field who are doing more and more research on vaccines in pregnancy and we are concluding that they are not 100% safe. And when it comes to pregnancy and putting things into your body, you want to be 100%sure it will do no harm. Right now we cannot price that vaccines do no harm 100%. As a doctor is it not am oath you take to do no harm? Yet you blanket statement vaccines are safe and ANYONE who does a little research knows that they are not. Have you even bothered to look into this before you toot the safety or are you just parroting what you have been told? It's irresponsible to simply tell moms to be that vaccines are safe and to just get them without 1 knowing all the facts and 2 knowing the patient personally. Women deserve to know all the facts (pros and cons) before they make their own decision as to whether or not they should inject themselves with something that has KNOWN side effects. I'm sorry but the benefit does NOT outweigh the risk here. After and before pregnancy vaccines are of lower risk but not during. Do you even know what is in them?
***Lurking Immunologist, several years experience of Virology research on the bench*** Not a member of this BMB but can't let this go.
Please cite your sources, qualifications. Have you ever taken a virology class? Immunology? I've read all of your comments on this and found absolutely NOTHING substantive except dangerous and incorrect conjecture. What you're spouting is irresponsible and not based in fact. Do you actually know how vaccines work?
To the bolded, "Parroting what we've been told?" This is so offensive to health care professionals and researchers who spend YEARS learning this stuff and by the way, publishing the data that you so stubbornly either refuse to read or don't have the capacity to interpret correctly. We actually learn science. It's hard, and not everyone can understand it - but to try to refute it without any experience or understanding of what you're even talking about is the definition of ignorant.
I'm more offended by your close mindedness. Please read Chocraine reviews. They will enlighten you. I work with a multitude of OBs and Midwives who also agree that these vaccines are not for use during pregnancy. They've done a lot of research as have I (real peer reviewed research) and have learned that these vaccines aren't as 100% safe as we are all led to believe. As a doctor, I think it's your duty to educate yourself more on this issue and keep an open mind as well.
I'm not close minded at all; in fact I am a scientist myself and for that reason very open to new scientific discoveries.
To help settle this issue once and for all:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20965490/
The reported rate of spontaneous abortion after flu vaccine was 1.9 per 1 million women. You have higher odds of being struck by lightening (1 in 12,000)...
Now compare to this:
https://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/8/1157.abstract?ijkey=dcc9e046f24034f1c8ed6287547ebfbf51a82167&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha?linkType=ABST&journalCode=jinfdis&resid=204/8/1157
Influenza pandemics led to miscarriages in 1 out of 10 women.
AND
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24365800/?i=1&from=pregnancy complications AND influenza&filters=MetaAnalysis
Maternal infection with influenza increased the risk of congenital abnormalities in the fetus by 2-fold; increased the risk of neural tube defects by 3.3-fold, the risk of hydrocephalus by 5.7 fold, the risk of heart defects by 1.6-fold, and the list goes on.
AND
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23323868/?i=20&from=fetal death AND influenza
In this study of 117,347 pregnant women, influenza illness was associated with a 91% increase in the risk of fetal death. On the other hand, flu vaccination substantially decreased the risk of maternal influenza diagnosis (by 70%). I should mention that the journal where this study was published is one of the highest-impact medical journals, and highly selective about the research they do publish.
And I did not even mention the maternal outcomes with influenza illness, which include higher rates of severe respiratory Ilness, hospitalizations and death compared to non-pregnant, immunocompetent women...
If you have ever conducted clinical research or a systematic review and meta-analysis, or been asked to peer-review Scientific articles (I do/ have done all 3), you will know that scientific evidence is never, ever 100% uniform. There will always be findings on each side of the scale for any topic. This is why the governmental agencies and medical societies have panels of experts who review all of the available evidence, critically appraise it, discuss it and only then come up with a consensual recommendation that is then released to the public in the form of consensus statements or guidelines. This is the mechanism that has led the CDC and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists to unequivocally recommend the influenza vaccine to pregnant women. No one is pulling this out of a hat - this is a very serious, rigorous and lengthy process.
I did not write this long post to convince you - I realize you are a lost case. I wrote this post because I anticipate that several women will read this thread, and I do not want them to be misled.
In a midwife and a birth advocate. What kind of doctor are you? An OB? Immunologist? There are a lot of us in the field who are doing more and more research on vaccines in pregnancy and we are concluding that they are not 100% safe. And when it comes to pregnancy and putting things into your body, you want to be 100%sure it will do no harm. Right now we cannot price that vaccines do no harm 100%. As a doctor is it not am oath you take to do no harm? Yet you blanket statement vaccines are safe and ANYONE who does a little research knows that they are not. Have you even bothered to look into this before you toot the safety or are you just parroting what you have been told? It's irresponsible to simply tell moms to be that vaccines are safe and to just get them without 1 knowing all the facts and 2 knowing the patient personally. Women deserve to know all the facts (pros and cons) before they make their own decision as to whether or not they should inject themselves with something that has KNOWN side effects. I'm sorry but the benefit does NOT outweigh the risk here. After and before pregnancy vaccines are of lower risk but not during. Do you even know what is in them?
***Lurking Immunologist, several years experience of Virology research on the bench*** Not a member of this BMB but can't let this go.
Please cite your sources, qualifications. Have you ever taken a virology class? Immunology? I've read all of your comments on this and found absolutely NOTHING substantive except dangerous and incorrect conjecture. What you're spouting is irresponsible and not based in fact. Do you actually know how vaccines work?
To the bolded, "Parroting what we've been told?" This is so offensive to health care professionals and researchers who spend YEARS learning this stuff and by the way, publishing the data that you so stubbornly either refuse to read or don't have the capacity to interpret correctly. We actually learn science. It's hard, and not everyone can understand it - but to try to refute it without any experience or understanding of what you're even talking about is the definition of ignorant.
Thank you for stepping in! I've been trying my best to prevent erroneous information from being disseminated here, your expert opinion was the icing on the cake!
I personally take a risk every year and prefer to do so. I have received the flu shot 4 times in my entire life. Each time I did, I became sick. One time being with my LO. I got very Ill as did he. We were sick for 2 weeks and hospitalized. We haven't gotten them since he was a year old and he's been absolutely healthy. Everyone's body is different one shot cannot be made for everyone.
That's quite a coincidence as the Flu vaccine did not cause you to get sick; the vaccine is not made with a live virus so it's impossible for you to have gotten sick from it. Now, there are more strains of influenza out there than the vaccine covers, so it is still possible to get it even if you get the vaccine; however, the odds are much lower and you still have some protection where you wouldn't get as sick as you would had you not gotten the vaccine.
So if you really tested positive for influenza 4 times, then you just have some really bad luck.
As someone who has worked in healthcare (infectious diseases, pediatrics, and pharmacy) for 10+ years, this thread has made my heart and head hurt. But, since I am not an actual healthcare provider, I'm not super comfortable refuting all of the incorrect facts that have been stated.
Side note, if others saw the infectious disease photos I was subjected to for five years, they would never question another vaccine again. Seriously... yikes!
I think of the flu shot like a car seat. It may make DD uncomfortable and there's a risk that she'll get pinched by the straps/clips and I'm going to drive carefully so that the odds of me getting in an accident are low. That doesn't mean I say "meh, she'll be fine" and just lay her on the floor. I put her in the seat to keep her safe just in case.
In a midwife and a birth advocate. What kind of doctor are you? An OB? Immunologist? There are a lot of us in the field who are doing more and more research on vaccines in pregnancy and we are concluding that they are not 100% safe. And when it comes to pregnancy and putting things into your body, you want to be 100%sure it will do no harm. Right now we cannot price that vaccines do no harm 100%. As a doctor is it not am oath you take to do no harm? Yet you blanket statement vaccines are safe and ANYONE who does a little research knows that they are not. Have you even bothered to look into this before you toot the safety or are you just parroting what you have been told? It's irresponsible to simply tell moms to be that vaccines are safe and to just get them without 1 knowing all the facts and 2 knowing the patient personally. Women deserve to know all the facts (pros and cons) before they make their own decision as to whether or not they should inject themselves with something that has KNOWN side effects. I'm sorry but the benefit does NOT outweigh the risk here. After and before pregnancy vaccines are of lower risk but not during. Do you even know what is in them?
***Lurking Immunologist, several years experience of Virology research on the bench*** Not a member of this BMB but can't let this go.
Please cite your sources, qualifications. Have you ever taken a virology class? Immunology? I've read all of your comments on this and found absolutely NOTHING substantive except dangerous and incorrect conjecture. What you're spouting is irresponsible and not based in fact. Do you actually know how vaccines work?
To the bolded, "Parroting what we've been told?" This is so offensive to health care professionals and researchers who spend YEARS learning this stuff and by the way, publishing the data that you so stubbornly either refuse to read or don't have the capacity to interpret correctly. We actually learn science. It's hard, and not everyone can understand it - but to try to refute it without any experience or understanding of what you're even talking about is the definition of ignorant.
Thank you for stepping in! I've been trying my best to prevent erroneous information from being disseminated here, your expert opinion was the icing on the cake!
Ditto! Been trying too and it's so hard to share information calmly when you are so frustrated by comments with no scientific backing.
As someone who has worked in healthcare (infectious diseases, pediatrics, and pharmacy) for 10+ years, this thread has made my heart and head hurt. But, since I am not an actual healthcare provider, I'm not super comfortable refuting all of the incorrect facts that have been stated.
Side note, if others saw the infectious disease photos I was subjected to for five years, they would never question another vaccine again. Seriously... yikes!
Agree! I've worked in the field too but am not a doctor though I'm sure we have reviewed a lot of the same research. So glad there are licensed medical experts on here not afraid to speak up!
And @thaisac1 your post was just so good with all the literature support, many articles I'm familiar with, it really deserved a legit mic drop!
Re: Forced into the FLU Shot ?
(Warning::: not a real statistic!)
LOL , your comment made me giggle.
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Thank you for stepping in! I've been trying my best to prevent erroneous information from being disseminated here, your expert opinion was the icing on the cake!
That's quite a coincidence as the Flu vaccine did not cause you to get sick; the vaccine is not made with a live virus so it's impossible for you to have gotten sick from it. Now, there are more strains of influenza out there than the vaccine covers, so it is still possible to get it even if you get the vaccine; however, the odds are much lower and you still have some protection where you wouldn't get as sick as you would had you not gotten the vaccine.
So if you really tested positive for influenza 4 times, then you just have some really bad luck.
As someone who has worked in healthcare (infectious diseases, pediatrics, and pharmacy) for 10+ years, this thread has made my heart and head hurt. But, since I am not an actual healthcare provider, I'm not super comfortable refuting all of the incorrect facts that have been stated.
Side note, if others saw the infectious disease photos I was subjected to for five years, they would never question another vaccine again. Seriously... yikes!
Ditto! Been trying too and it's so hard to share information calmly when you are so frustrated by comments with no scientific backing.
And @thaisac1 your post was just so good with all the literature support, many articles I'm familiar with, it really deserved a legit mic drop!