@nik6499 as I said in my prior post, I am not saying that formula is not safe I am simply stating that someone choosing to use formula should be informed as to what they are about to put into their child's body.
Saying that formulas are required to contain certain ingredients for nutrition is 100% accurate. What is concerning about some formulas is the non-required ingredients that are included in the product. It is the ADDITIONAL ingredients that should be researched before consumption.
There is no need to try and pick a fight over something that I am not even disagreeing with you about.
@magburt , no one said formula would scar anyone's baby and no one said breastfeeding is for everyone. The only person who can make someone feel bad for choosing formula is the person who does it and thinks it was for a bad reason. @Embuzz247 , maybe the endgame is to voice my opinion and provide information to help people make informed decisions. The question was asked and answered. Just because people feel guilty about their decisions to breastfeed doesn't mean anyone was trying to shame them. No one has said that no one should ever formula feed. On the contrary, there are many reasons. So, everyone piping up with their reasons and being offended is just creating drama where there was none.
@DH09072012 , you're failing reading comprehension. By asking, "[what] if she hates breastfeeding?" and your other hypotheticals, you're ignoring the original premise that she hasn't done it yet and just doesn't want to.
@LC122 "the only person who can make someone feel bad for choosing formula is the person who does it and thinks it was for a bad reason" But you (even though you deny it) are publicly shaming these women and calling them lazy and selfish. So obviously people like you can make people feel bad too...this is obvious by all the people against your holier-than-thou stance. In your words "let the flames begin"
@magburt , no one said formula would scar anyone's baby and no one said breastfeeding is for everyone. The only person who can make someone feel bad for choosing formula is the person who does it and thinks it was for a bad reason. @Embuzz247 , maybe the endgame is to voice my opinion and provide information to help people make informed decisions. The question was asked and answered. Just because people feel guilty about their decisions to breastfeed doesn't mean anyone was trying to shame them. No one has said that no one should ever formula feed. On the contrary, there are many reasons. So, everyone piping up with their reasons and being offended is just creating drama where there was none.
@DH09072012 , you're failing reading comprehension. By asking, "[what] if she hates breastfeeding?" and your other hypotheticals, you're ignoring the original premise that she hasn't done it yet and just doesn't want to.
AGAIN with the judging! "You're failing reading comprehension." Just such a rude thing for anyone to say! You do realize that you are talking to other real people, correct? Do you have any compassion?
And yes, the things you say to people CAN make them feel badly, regardless of why they have made their choices. I've already given my advice to the OP, my advice to you is to think about the other people you are talking to and the way YOU might be making them feel. I just don't understand these personal attacks on people you don't even know. (And you can say they're not personal all you want, if the people who are reading them take them personally, then they are personal to that person.) there are ways to say things that hurt others and there are ways to say things that are helpful to others.
@magburt , what you quoted is referring to the fact that, more generally stated, the only person who can make you feel bad about yourself is you. The proverbial you.
I stand by my opinion that I think it is selfish to not try something you know is better for your child just because you don't want to.
If you really want to open up the discussion, let's talk about what the dads think of it. Would the OP be any more or less wrong if her husband/the baby's father wanted her to try to breastfeed and she refused to even try?
I'm not shaming anyone. If anyone feels bad about themselves or their decisions, that is on them. Plenty of people on here have defended their decisions to formula feed for a variety of reasons. As they should. They are the ones living with that decision for better or worse. If I recall, most of them said it was for better.
The premise of the OP was simply not wanting to breastfeed while knowing all the benefits. Frankly, given the silence of the OP and the topic, it's smelling a bit like troll in here.
As for the flaming... Plenty of people have criticized me/my opinion/my posts, but no one has offered a valid argument for disagreeing with me. Most have offered arguments that are irrelevant to the question being asked. I'm not offended by anything that has been said. I don't care if someone finds me condescending or "holier-than-thou". There is nothing offensive about what I've said. A few people are able to see that objectively.
I just opened up this thread for the first time and it honestly reads like a bunch of women trying to give supportive advice that the OP should make her own choice and then one woman attacking everyone.
So I am curious for all of you that think formula is bad will you make your own baby food or buy jars from the stores???
I don't know if you are necessarily referring to me but I do plan on making my own baby food. This isn't me saying store bought baby food is bad! This is just me saying that my husband and I eat organic and I want my child too as well. My mother raised all 9 of us with an all natural organic way of life and I've always wanted to do the same with my children.
That being said, I can not say with 100% certainty that my baby won't be formula fed. One of my younger brothers had to have formula starting at 3 months because he was not thriving properly with mother's milk. Yes, this is the same mother that lives an organic lifestyle. This was 14 years ago and at the time my mom did her research and found the best formula with the least additives available for my brother.
If for some reason God does not allow me to produce enough milk or my baby doesn't thrive on my milk, I will take the same steps my mother took all those years ago and determine the best formula for my baby. As I've said before, it isn't about not agreeing with formula feeding, it's about being informed about what's going into baby's tummy.
People keep bringing up immunity and Health benefits for the child. My daughter was exclusively breast fed for about 6 weeks before I had to supplement a few times when I took migraine medication(pump &dump). According to research, my daughter should have had passive immunity since I received vaccination during pregnancy, we'll let me tell you she had pertussis at 4 weeks old. It was the scariest thing to watch your baby cough so much that they turn blue. When I asked at the hospital, the amount of immunity varies with every mom and baby. So no, it's not a sure thing they'll be healthier because they're breast fed.
Your poor little one! I can't imagine how scary that was for you to watch.
I feel like no matter what my baby eats I am going to be that mom that wants a plastic bubble for them lol One of my sisters was allergic to corn and when she was about 3 years old she was getting these horrible rashes and was super sick. We couldn't figure out why and then the allergy tests told us! We had been feeding her corn not realizing she was allergic.
If they are in a bubble, nothing can hurt them, right?
So I am curious for all of you that think formula is bad will you make your own baby food or buy jars from the stores???
Point of correction: I don't think formula is bad; I think breastmilk is better.
I have never bought a jar of baby food for either of my kids and don't plan to. It is healthier to prepare the same nutritious foods we eat in a way that is safe for a baby to eat. No preservatives, no watered down ingredients, or misleading labels to worry about.
Anecdote: For our first baby shower, our friends did a game where they blindfolded us and had us taste 5 different baby foods and guess what they were. Not only were they disgusting, but they tasted nothing like what they were claiming to be.
@kmac103 Have a specialist (ENT) check for tongue/lip tie if baby is not thriving on your milk. It is so much more common than people know and is easily correctable. Many babies with ties can't transfer milk efficiently. If this happens long enough, supply drops and you can imagine the cascade of effects. My daughter had this problem and we went from a skinny baby who struggled to gain to a roly-poly in a matter of months. Breastfeeding also went from being extremely difficult to a breeze.
@magburt , no one said formula would scar anyone's baby and no one said breastfeeding is for everyone. The only person who can make someone feel bad for choosing formula is the person who does it and thinks it was for a bad reason. @Embuzz247 , maybe the endgame is to voice my opinion and provide information to help people make informed decisions. The question was asked and answered. Just because people feel guilty about their decisions to breastfeed doesn't mean anyone was trying to shame them. No one has said that no one should ever formula feed. On the contrary, there are many reasons. So, everyone piping up with their reasons and being offended is just creating drama where there was none.
@DH09072012 , you're failing reading comprehension. By asking, "[what] if she hates breastfeeding?" and your other hypotheticals, you're ignoring the original premise that she hasn't done it yet and just doesn't want to.
To suggest that one is "failing reading comprehension" because they bring up a point that elaborates on topic matter currently under discussion is unnecessary and IMO a personal attack. For example: What if I were to tell you that you were failing human comprehension and the ability to debate a topic without blatantly demeaning others (including those not on this board that are of a lower socioeconomic status then yourself?) I would not do that. I think if I did that, it would be lowbrow. Instead, I'm going to address your incorrect assertions.
The smart thing is killing me here. Nobody cares that you were formula fed and a genius. No one is saying that breastfeeding gives you standard deviations worth of IQ points. Nobody formula-fed can go back and find out of breastfeeding would have made them anything more than they already are. And should anyone really be choosing to breastfeed or not based on an IQ point or two?
There are other benefits though, immunities over time, etc. (I'd like to see more research re: asthma, allergies, auto-immune disorders) and those can't be discounted.
For the rest, I default to the PP above me. She said it way better than I could.
The article posted about the differences being less significant still found a significant difference regarding asthma. It was an interesting article but fell short of explaining the "why" of the differences. In families in which one child was breastfed and another was not, it did not account for why. It did mention socioeconomic factors and education factors, which are major contributors across the board. Those with the resources and education to know better are more likely to do better.
Agree on the smart point as well. No number of anecdotes on this board is going to convince me of anything different than what research supports. And it's research, not "research". Putting it in quotes doesn't make it any less legit. It is a numbers issue. Research also says that those who attend college are more likely to earn more over their lifetime. No number of "Bill Gates dropped out of college" stories would ever convince me that there isn't a numerical advantage to higher education.
"Those with the resources and education to know better are more likely to do better." - Now you are also shaming people with less education and resources for the higher occurrence of asthma in their children (I am assuming due to not breast-feeding? Even if not, you have not done your research,) because that is a blanket statement that is factually incorrect. I find it extremely ironic that you are advocating higher education and the value of factual research whilst not doing your own research.
Please note Re: Asthma and the link to socioeconomic factors- It has been proven time and again that exposure to cockroaches and their fecal matter cause a dramatic increase in the occurrence of asthma. Examples of such are particularly prevalent in low income urban areas. Obviously, the level of educational achievement contributes significantly to socioeconomic status and in turn the environment in which one lives.
There is the correlation that you are not finding in your article.
You can research this, as you have stated, "no number of antidotes on this board is going to convince me of anything different than what research supports."
@kmac103 Have a specialist (ENT) check for tongue/lip tie if baby is not thriving on your milk. It is so much more common than people know and is easily correctable. Many babies with ties can't transfer milk efficiently. If this happens long enough, supply drops and you can imagine the cascade of effects. My daughter had this problem and we went from a skinny baby who struggled to gain to a roly-poly in a matter of months. Breastfeeding also went from being extremely difficult to a breeze.
YES!!!!!! I have seen this several times in clinic! My current pediatric preceptor even clips it right in the office it was very cool to see!
Did anyone ever watch TrueBlood? Maybe that's a good analogy for formula :P (embarrassing that I actually finished that series out on hbogo?)
IMO it is better to breastfeed if you can. It is a matter of doing what is best for the baby, so I can see that it is selfish if you don't want to because you are embarrassed. Being a bit selfish does not make you a bad parent, however. We are ALL selfish... and clearly we all like the sound of our own voice/ the look of our own typed words )
For the OP I think it would be a good idea to try at least! Maybe have a talk with a consultant to see if she can assuage your fears. They way to deal with someone who is afraid is not to yell at them, I think, but to combat fear with real information. I've never BF, so I suggest to you what I plan on doing! Talk to a specialist!
@tralalablah Thank you for the information! I wonder if that is what happened to my brother all those years ago?! I hope it won't be an issue but I like to be prepared for anything lol I'm a planner :-)
@BostonBaby1 I am constantly amazed at your wealth of knowledge! I always learn something from your posts whether it is about the English language or about child rearing. You are kind of awesome.
@BostonBaby1 I am constantly amazed at your wealth of knowledge! I always learn something from your posts whether it is about the English language or about child rearing. You are kind of awesome.
@BostonBaby1 , where to start... Let's go back to Philosophy 101: Logic. It is erroneous to make an argument outside of the parameters of the question being asked. There are so many red herrings in this thread, I'm not going to attempt to count. @DHnumbers completely missed the point by bringing up circumstances that had nothing to do with the question being asked. She asserted that I was wrong for my opinion because of a series of "what ifs" that didn't apply to the question posed. It is a reading comprehension fail.
I'm going to infer from the rest of your post that you did not read the article posted (not by me). I was discussing the article and its findings. The correlation between higher education and higher SES and breastfeeding are well established by a multitude of research. You really misunderstood everything I said because you must not have read the article. No one is shaming anyone about anything there. And no one is blaming the less educated or lower SES for their children's asthma. The article (which was arguing that the benefits of breastfeeding have been overstated on the basis of research where they matched sibling pairs) stated that asthma was the only parameter that didn't fit their findings. Meaning, breastfeeding made a statistically significant difference across the board for cases of asthma. So, what you mentioned is not the correlation missing from the article. If you're talking about the "why?" question I mentioned, I was referring to the article not addressing why certain sibling pairs were fed differently. Why was one child breastfed and another formula fed? The article doesn't say. And even though it says respondents were asked about duration of breastfeeding, it doesn't provide an analysis of that either.
@BostonBaby1 , where to start... Let's go back to Philosophy 101: Logic. It is erroneous to make an argument outside of the parameters of the question being asked. There are so many red herrings in this thread, I'm not going to attempt to count. @DHnumbers completely missed the point by bringing up circumstances that had nothing to do with the question being asked. She asserted that I was wrong for my opinion because of a series of "what ifs" that didn't apply to the question posed. It is a reading comprehension fail.
I'm going to infer from the rest of your post that you did not read the article posted (not by me). I was discussing the article and its findings. The correlation between higher education and higher SES and breastfeeding are well established by a multitude of research. You really misunderstood everything I said because you must not have read the article. No one is shaming anyone about anything there. And no one is blaming the less educated or lower SES for their children's asthma. The article (which was arguing that the benefits of breastfeeding have been overstated on the basis of research where they matched sibling pairs) stated that asthma was the only parameter that didn't fit their findings. Meaning, breastfeeding made a statistically significant difference across the board for cases of asthma. So, what you mentioned is not the correlation missing from the article. If you're talking about the "why?" question I mentioned, I was referring to the article not addressing why certain sibling pairs were fed differently. Why was one child breastfed and another formula fed? The article doesn't say. And even though it says respondents were asked about duration of breastfeeding, it doesn't provide an analysis of that either.
Also ANTIDOTE ==/== ANECDOTE. BIG Difference.
Damn that Siri I guess she wasn't breast fed either.
@BostonBaby1 , where to start... Let's go back to Philosophy 101: Logic. It is erroneous to make an argument outside of the parameters of the question being asked. There are so many red herrings in this thread, I'm not going to attempt to count. @DHnumbers completely missed the point by bringing up circumstances that had nothing to do with the question being asked. She asserted that I was wrong for my opinion because of a series of "what ifs" that didn't apply to the question posed. It is a reading comprehension fail.
I'm going to infer from the rest of your post that you did not read the article posted (not by me). I was discussing the article and its findings. The correlation between higher education and higher SES and breastfeeding are well established by a multitude of research. You really misunderstood everything I said because you must not have read the article. No one is shaming anyone about anything there. And no one is blaming the less educated or lower SES for their children's asthma. The article (which was arguing that the benefits of breastfeeding have been overstated on the basis of research where they matched sibling pairs) stated that asthma was the only parameter that didn't fit their findings. Meaning, breastfeeding made a statistically significant difference across the board for cases of asthma. So, what you mentioned is not the correlation missing from the article. If you're talking about the "why?" question I mentioned, I was referring to the article not addressing why certain sibling pairs were fed differently. Why was one child breastfed and another formula fed? The article doesn't say. And even though it says respondents were asked about duration of breastfeeding, it doesn't provide an analysis of that either.
Also ANTIDOTE ==/== ANECDOTE. BIG Difference.
Just to let you know, I am talking into my telephone using Siri. I am well aware of the difference in verbiage and the grammatical mistakes made are due to the fact that I am not typing myself. I would like to thank you for providing me with comical relief this afternoon. I especially like the way that you capitalize each word.
Not only are you completely missing my point, but who is @DHnumbers??? I've never heard that handle before. To clarify, this is a rhetorical question; I'm not interested in your answer.
Since you made it so very clear that you like research and numbers, I was attempting to provide you with more information as to why there is a correlation between asthma and socioeconomic status. Additionally, I thought you would enjoy the research that explains the increased prevalence of asthma in young urban populations.
Anyhow, feel free to write whatever you desire back to me. I'm not going to be reading it. IMHO, it seems to me as if you may be an elitist who has no desire to open up your mind to anybody other than those whose views are aligned solidly with yours. While I strongly believe in making an attempt to BF, I am not about to stand on a soapbox and preach to those whom do not wish to do so.
I think that the ignore button is the best feature on The Bump.
Using Siri doesn't mean you can't proofread. DHnumbers means I'm not scrolling back to find the actual numbers for the person being referred to because they don't actually need to be tagged. Your tangent about asthma and SES was nothing new to me nor cogent to the argument being discussed. I'm sorry you seem to equate educated and elitist. Sounds like a personal problem. You are perfectly welcome to ignore me but I guarantee you will be missing out on a wealth of future knowledge. But all hope is not lost as some of it is sure to be quoted.
OP.. I will try my very best to breast feed. I'm going to give it a really good shot! But if it doesn't work for me, I will be formula feeding. I'm also taking lots of time off work so I'm thinking I should be able to really patiently try. However, if it doesn't work for me or baby, I will be FF. Do whatever works for YOU!
Using Siri doesn't mean you can't proofread. DHnumbers means I'm not scrolling back to find the actual numbers for the person being referred to because they don't actually need to be tagged. Your tangent about asthma and SES was nothing new to me nor cogent to the argument being discussed. I'm sorry you seem to equate educated and elitist. Sounds like a personal problem. You are perfectly welcome to ignore me but I guarantee you will be missing out on a wealth of future knowledge. But all hope is not lost as some of it is sure to be quoted.
You may be well educated and may be able to provide a wealth of knowledge, but all you have provided to anyone on this thread is judgment and shame.
Also, I happen to know that many of the women disagreeing with you are also well educated, but do not immediately assume they are better than everyone else because of it. I will get my wealth of knowledge and education from them.
I have a legitimate question for others who have already gone through BF. everyone is attacking each other on this post so if you want to be judgmental about my question, please just stop reading now.
I'm wondering about drinking and BF. I know there's tests for you to test the alcohol content in your milk. Are they reliable? How long does it normally take the alcohol to get out of your system before you can BF again? Yes I've heard of pump and dump but how long does it generally take before you can feed your baby breast milk again?
Disclaimer - If my body and baby allow I would like to BF for the first year. No I don't plan on drinking every weekend, I will be a responsible mother. But this is a long time to go without having a sip of alcohol so I would just like to be educated. No negativity, please. (edited for spelling)
I have a legitimate question for others who have already gone through BF. everyone is attacking each other on this post so if you want to be judgmental about my question, please just stop reading now.
I'm wondering about drinking and BF. I know there's tests for you to test the alcohol content in your milk. Are they reliable? How long does it normally take the alcohol to get out of your system before you can BF again? Yes I've heard of pump and dump but how long does it generally take before you can feed your baby breast milk again?
Disclaimer - If my body and baby allow I would like to BF for the first year. This is a long time to go without having a sip of alcohol. No I don't plan on drinking every weekend, I will be a responsible mother. But this is a long time to go without having a sip of alcohol so I would just like to be educated. No negativity, please.
That is a legit question. I just don't happen to remember the answer to it.
I have a legitimate question for others who have already gone through BF. everyone is attacking each other on this post so if you want to be judgmental about my question, please just stop reading now.
I'm wondering about drinking and BF. I know there's tests for you to test the alcohol content in your milk. Are they reliable? How long does it normally take the alcohol to get out of your system before you can BF again? Yes I've heard of pump and dump but how long does it generally take before you can feed your baby breast milk again?
Disclaimer - If my body and baby allow I would like to BF for the first year. This is a long time to go without having a sip of alcohol. No I don't plan on drinking every weekend, I will be a responsible mother. But this is a long time to go without having a sip of alcohol so I would just like to be educated. No negativity, please.
It's perfectly ok to have a few drinks or a night out, you just pump and dump a few times after drinking. I think the length of time depends on how much you drank and how long it takes to leave your system. I think we talked about time frames in class but I don't remember exactly. I had a couple girls nights when I got home Id pump and dump and would typically feed her again in the morning. It's a matter of hours typically. Hope that helps a little bit.
Here's some info from Le Leche League... Basically it says some light drinking is ok, and you don't even necessarily have to pump and dump, but you definitely have to be aware of how intoxicated you are... There's stuff about time frames that I don't exactly understand so maybe @redfallon's answer from her old BMB can help with that
Dr. Jack Newman, member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his handout "More Breastfeeding Myths":
Reasonable alcohol intake should not be discouraged at all. As is the case with most drugs, very little alcohol comes out in the milk. The mother can take some alcohol and continue breastfeeding as she normally does. Prohibiting alcohol is another way we make life unnecessarily restrictive for nursing mothers. Thomas W. Hale, R.Ph. Ph.D., member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his book Medications and Mothers' Milk (12th ed.):
Significant amounts of alcohol are secreted into breastmilk although it is not considered harmful to the infant if the amount and duration are limited. The absolute amount of alcohol transferred into milk is generally low. Beer, but not ethanol, has been reported in a number of studies to stimulate prolactin levels and breastmilk production (1, 2, 3). Thus it is presumed that the polysaccharide from barley may be the prolactin-stimulating component of beer (4). Non-alcoholic beer is equally effective. In a study of twelve breastfeeding mothers who ingested 0.3 g/kg of ethanol in orange juice (equivalent to 1 can of beer for the average-sized woman), the mean maximum concentration of ethanol in milk was 320 mg/L (5). This report suggests a 23% reduction (156 to 120 mL) in breastmilk production following ingestion of beer and an increase in milk odor as a function of ethanol content.
Excess levels may lead to drowsiness, deep sleep, weakness, and decreased linear growth in the infant. Maternal blood alcohol levels must attain 300 mg/dl before significant side effects are reported in the infant. Reduction of letdown is apparently dose-dependent and requires alcohol consumption of 1.5 to 1.9 gm/kg body weight (6). Other studies have suggested psychomotor delay in infants of moderate drinkers (2+ drinks daily). Avoid breastfeeding during and for 2 - 3 hours after drinking alcohol.
In an interesting study of the effect of alcohol on milk ingestion by infants, the rate of milk consumption by infants during the 4 hours immediately after exposure to alcohol (0.3 g/kg) in 12 mothers was significantly less (7). Compensatory increases in intake were then observed during the 8 - 16 hours after exposure when mothers refrained from drinking.
Adult metabolism of alcohol is approximately 1 ounce in 3 hours, so mothers who ingest alcohol in moderate amounts can generally return to breastfeeding as soon as they feel neurologically normal. Chronic or heavy consumers of alcohol should not breastfeed.
Breastfeeding works out soo much cheaper, if average formula works out £10 a go and u need two boxes a week, that's £20 per week, times four weeks per month =£80 times by 12 months in year if you can do it for that long is £1,040 roughly you will save in your first year x brill ay!! X
^^^ I posed the question to ladies from my former BMB.
Thanks!
Alright, here's what I got:
"If you can drive, you can nurse. You can nurse and sip wine at the same time so long as you aren't drunk "
"I always did right after a feeding so there was time until the next one. I followed the ok to drive, ok to nurse."
I was a formula mom and I felt fine about it. I wanted desperately to breast feed and worked through troubles at the beginning in the hospital... and saw multiple lactation consultants... and fixed his latch... and took pills... and tried pumping (I dripped which apparently isn't good)... and stayed awake feeding and feeding until he started dropping weight and the lactation consultant HANDED ME FORMULA COUPONS at 3 weeks and told me I wasn't giving him anything. I beat myself up about it. I fully intend to try just as hard with my second due in Dec but I also know that formula is not the devil. Sometimes it's the only way and your baby will be healthy either way.
It's so sad there is such a divide and those who treat formula feeders with disrespect - everyone is different. Try with as much as you can because it's free and truly is the best way when possible. Good luck!
Good information @Ken122014 @0leahmarie, for occasional drinking, you don't need to pump and dump unless you are feeling engorged, in which case you should pump to relieve the engorgement whether you're drinking or not.
The thing is that even though alcohol is secreted into breastmilk, it is not STORED in breastmilk. And as the info @Ken122014 posted suggests, there is a concentration level for it to be secreted into the breastmilk, as in heavy drinking.
The driving/nursing thing is dependent on how realistic you are about your ability to judge your sobriety. Let's all hope everyone here is responsible.
Other factors: If you are exclusively breastfeeding and your baby unexpectedly wakes up hungry, you need a plan. Having a pumped bottle on hand or another caretaker (Dad) are helpful. I did on-demand feeding and if I picked up a crying baby, the go-to plan (of the baby) was to nurse. If my husband picked up the baby, nursing wasn't really an option, so he might have a better chance of soothing back to sleep without nursing. This also works for timid fathers who need practice soothing (ie, "Well, I recently finished my wine so you should probably take this one.")
There was a case in the news recently where a waiter did something (refused service or called the cops or asked them to leave? Don't remember) because a woman was drinking a beer WHILE breastfeeding. It made headlines as scandalous but her baby was just finishing a meal and she was just starting to drink, on a full stomach. With the time it would take for her body to absorb the alcohol and yada yada yada, the baby was going to be fine. But some (probably childless) waiter made a stink about it.
To answer the original posters question I loved BFing and agree that it's a great idea to give it a try. I know that if you really want to do it I have friends who swore by setting timeline goals. For example I'm going to BF for the first week no matter what, the first month, then three months, six months etc. I did have bloody nipples, engorgement and pain the first two weeks, but I also had bad tearing and all over soreness so it sort of felt like the name of the game post-partum. My LC recommended not pumping or introducing bottles for the first 6-8 weeks to allow LO to figure out her latch and to establish my supply. This put all the feeding pressure on me but it worked like a charm. It turned out LO had a lip tie so it was rough but I'm glad I got that advice. I knew many moms who were bfing and then also pumping to try to increase their supply and in retrospect they've said it put way too much stress and pressure on them and ended up messing everything up (they both stopped bfing by 3 months and were really bummed about it). I think the reminder that you are made for this (as in it's a natural process for your body) can be helpful - for many people it is fairly easy and wonderful! Try not to overthink it, try it when baby comes and even if it's hard at first I'd recommend trying to trust your body and stick with it and see where it goes. For me not having to buy spendy formula and mess with preparing bottles (especially in the middle of the night) was a God send. In the end you'll decide what's best for you! Good luck and good for you for doing your research before hand!
Re: Breastfeeding vs. Bottle feeding
Saying that formulas are required to contain certain ingredients for nutrition is 100% accurate. What is concerning about some formulas is the non-required ingredients that are included in the product. It is the ADDITIONAL ingredients that should be researched before consumption.
There is no need to try and pick a fight over something that I am not even disagreeing with you about.
Kylie M.
Baby #1 Born 12.16.2015
Baby #2 Due 7.13.2018
@Embuzz247 , maybe the endgame is to voice my opinion and provide information to help people make informed decisions. The question was asked and answered. Just because people feel guilty about their decisions to breastfeed doesn't mean anyone was trying to shame them. No one has said that no one should ever formula feed. On the contrary, there are many reasons. So, everyone piping up with their reasons and being offended is just creating drama where there was none.
@DH09072012 , you're failing reading comprehension. By asking, "[what] if she hates breastfeeding?" and your other hypotheticals, you're ignoring the original premise that she hasn't done it yet and just doesn't want to.
@tralalablah and @kmac103 , well said.
But you (even though you deny it) are publicly shaming these women and calling them lazy and selfish. So obviously people like you can make people feel bad too...this is obvious by all the people against your holier-than-thou stance. In your words "let the flames begin"
And yes, the things you say to people CAN make them feel badly, regardless of why they have made their choices. I've already given my advice to the OP, my advice to you is to think about the other people you are talking to and the way YOU might be making them feel. I just don't understand these personal attacks on people you don't even know. (And you can say they're not personal all you want, if the people who are reading them take them personally, then they are personal to that person.) there are ways to say things that hurt others and there are ways to say things that are helpful to others.
I stand by my opinion that I think it is selfish to not try something you know is better for your child just because you don't want to.
If you really want to open up the discussion, let's talk about what the dads think of it. Would the OP be any more or less wrong if her husband/the baby's father wanted her to try to breastfeed and she refused to even try?
I'm not shaming anyone. If anyone feels bad about themselves or their decisions, that is on them. Plenty of people on here have defended their decisions to formula feed for a variety of reasons. As they should. They are the ones living with that decision for better or worse. If I recall, most of them said it was for better.
The premise of the OP was simply not wanting to breastfeed while knowing all the benefits. Frankly, given the silence of the OP and the topic, it's smelling a bit like troll in here.
As for the flaming... Plenty of people have criticized me/my opinion/my posts, but no one has offered a valid argument for disagreeing with me. Most have offered arguments that are irrelevant to the question being asked. I'm not offended by anything that has been said. I don't care if someone finds me condescending or "holier-than-thou". There is nothing offensive about what I've said. A few people are able to see that objectively.
That being said, I can not say with 100% certainty that my baby won't be formula fed. One of my younger brothers had to have formula starting at 3 months because he was not thriving properly with mother's milk. Yes, this is the same mother that lives an organic lifestyle. This was 14 years ago and at the time my mom did her research and found the best formula with the least additives available for my brother.
If for some reason God does not allow me to produce enough milk or my baby doesn't thrive on my milk, I will take the same steps my mother took all those years ago and determine the best formula for my baby. As I've said before, it isn't about not agreeing with formula feeding, it's about being informed about what's going into baby's tummy.
Kylie M.
Baby #1 Born 12.16.2015
Baby #2 Due 7.13.2018
I feel like no matter what my baby eats I am going to be that mom that wants a plastic bubble for them lol One of my sisters was allergic to corn and when she was about 3 years old she was getting these horrible rashes and was super sick. We couldn't figure out why and then the allergy tests told us! We had been feeding her corn not realizing she was allergic.
If they are in a bubble, nothing can hurt them, right?
Kylie M.
Baby #1 Born 12.16.2015
Baby #2 Due 7.13.2018
I have never bought a jar of baby food for either of my kids and don't plan to. It is healthier to prepare the same nutritious foods we eat in a way that is safe for a baby to eat. No preservatives, no watered down ingredients, or misleading labels to worry about.
Anecdote: For our first baby shower, our friends did a game where they blindfolded us and had us taste 5 different baby foods and guess what they were. Not only were they disgusting, but they tasted nothing like what they were claiming to be.
Please note Re: Asthma and the link to socioeconomic factors- It has been proven time and again that exposure to cockroaches and their fecal matter cause a dramatic increase in the occurrence of asthma. Examples of such are particularly prevalent in low income urban areas. Obviously, the level of educational achievement contributes significantly to socioeconomic status and in turn the environment in which one lives.
There is the correlation that you are not finding in your article.
You can research this, as you have stated, "no number of antidotes on this board is going to convince me of anything different than what research supports."
Kylie M.
Baby #1 Born 12.16.2015
Baby #2 Due 7.13.2018
Kylie M.
Baby #1 Born 12.16.2015
Baby #2 Due 7.13.2018
On point with those gifs Mag!
Baby Girl 12.9.15
MC 4.7.14 @ 21 W - Turners Syndrome
Let's go back to Philosophy 101: Logic. It is erroneous to make an argument outside of the parameters of the question being asked. There are so many red herrings in this thread, I'm not going to attempt to count. @DHnumbers completely missed the point by bringing up circumstances that had nothing to do with the question being asked. She asserted that I was wrong for my opinion because of a series of "what ifs" that didn't apply to the question posed. It is a reading comprehension fail.
I'm going to infer from the rest of your post that you did not read the article posted (not by me). I was discussing the article and its findings. The correlation between higher education and higher SES and breastfeeding are well established by a multitude of research. You really misunderstood everything I said because you must not have read the article. No one is shaming anyone about anything there. And no one is blaming the less educated or lower SES for their children's asthma. The article (which was arguing that the benefits of breastfeeding have been overstated on the basis of research where they matched sibling pairs) stated that asthma was the only parameter that didn't fit their findings. Meaning, breastfeeding made a statistically significant difference across the board for cases of asthma.
So, what you mentioned is not the correlation missing from the article. If you're talking about the "why?" question I mentioned, I was referring to the article not addressing why certain sibling pairs were fed differently. Why was one child breastfed and another formula fed? The article doesn't say. And even though it says respondents were asked about duration of breastfeeding, it doesn't provide an analysis of that either.
Also ANTIDOTE ==/== ANECDOTE.
BIG Difference.
Not only are you completely missing my point, but who is @DHnumbers??? I've never heard that handle before. To clarify, this is a rhetorical question; I'm not interested in your answer.
Since you made it so very clear that you like research and numbers, I was attempting to provide you with more information as to why there is a correlation between asthma and socioeconomic status. Additionally, I thought you would enjoy the research that explains the increased prevalence of asthma in young urban populations.
Anyhow, feel free to write whatever you desire back to me. I'm not going to be reading it. IMHO, it seems to me as if you may be an elitist who has no desire to open up your mind to anybody other than those whose views are aligned solidly with yours. While I strongly believe in making an attempt to BF, I am not about to stand on a soapbox and preach to those whom do not wish to do so.
I think that the ignore button is the best feature on The Bump.
DHnumbers means I'm not scrolling back to find the actual numbers for the person being referred to because they don't actually need to be tagged.
Your tangent about asthma and SES was nothing new to me nor cogent to the argument being discussed.
I'm sorry you seem to equate educated and elitist. Sounds like a personal problem.
You are perfectly welcome to ignore me but I guarantee you will be missing out on a wealth of future knowledge. But all hope is not lost as some of it is sure to be quoted.
Also, I happen to know that many of the women disagreeing with you are also well educated, but do not immediately assume they are better than everyone else because of it. I will get my wealth of knowledge and education from them.
Jamie
Jamie
Dr. Jack Newman, member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his handout "More Breastfeeding Myths":
Reasonable alcohol intake should not be discouraged at all. As is the case with most drugs, very little alcohol comes out in the milk. The mother can take some alcohol and continue breastfeeding as she normally does. Prohibiting alcohol is another way we make life unnecessarily restrictive for nursing mothers.
Thomas W. Hale, R.Ph. Ph.D., member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his book Medications and Mothers' Milk (12th ed.):
Significant amounts of alcohol are secreted into breastmilk although it is not considered harmful to the infant if the amount and duration are limited. The absolute amount of alcohol transferred into milk is generally low. Beer, but not ethanol, has been reported in a number of studies to stimulate prolactin levels and breastmilk production (1, 2, 3). Thus it is presumed that the polysaccharide from barley may be the prolactin-stimulating component of beer (4). Non-alcoholic beer is equally effective.
In a study of twelve breastfeeding mothers who ingested 0.3 g/kg of ethanol in orange juice (equivalent to 1 can of beer for the average-sized woman), the mean maximum concentration of ethanol in milk was 320 mg/L (5). This report suggests a 23% reduction (156 to 120 mL) in breastmilk production following ingestion of beer and an increase in milk odor as a function of ethanol content.
Excess levels may lead to drowsiness, deep sleep, weakness, and decreased linear growth in the infant. Maternal blood alcohol levels must attain 300 mg/dl before significant side effects are reported in the infant. Reduction of letdown is apparently dose-dependent and requires alcohol consumption of 1.5 to 1.9 gm/kg body weight (6). Other studies have suggested psychomotor delay in infants of moderate drinkers (2+ drinks daily). Avoid breastfeeding during and for 2 - 3 hours after drinking alcohol.
In an interesting study of the effect of alcohol on milk ingestion by infants, the rate of milk consumption by infants during the 4 hours immediately after exposure to alcohol (0.3 g/kg) in 12 mothers was significantly less (7). Compensatory increases in intake were then observed during the 8 - 16 hours after exposure when mothers refrained from drinking.
Adult metabolism of alcohol is approximately 1 ounce in 3 hours, so mothers who ingest alcohol in moderate amounts can generally return to breastfeeding as soon as they feel neurologically normal. Chronic or heavy consumers of alcohol should not breastfeed.
Alright, here's what I got:
"If you can drive, you can nurse. You can nurse and sip wine at the same time so long as you aren't drunk
"I always did right after a feeding so there was time until the next one. I followed the ok to drive, ok to nurse."
Jamie
It's so sad there is such a divide and those who treat formula feeders with disrespect - everyone is different. Try with as much as you can because it's free and truly is the best way when possible. Good luck!
@0leahmarie, for occasional drinking, you don't need to pump and dump unless you are feeling engorged, in which case you should pump to relieve the engorgement whether you're drinking or not.
The thing is that even though alcohol is secreted into breastmilk, it is not STORED in breastmilk. And as the info @Ken122014 posted suggests, there is a concentration level for it to be secreted into the breastmilk, as in heavy drinking.
The driving/nursing thing is dependent on how realistic you are about your ability to judge your sobriety. Let's all hope everyone here is responsible.
Other factors:
If you are exclusively breastfeeding and your baby unexpectedly wakes up hungry, you need a plan. Having a pumped bottle on hand or another caretaker (Dad) are helpful. I did on-demand feeding and if I picked up a crying baby, the go-to plan (of the baby) was to nurse. If my husband picked up the baby, nursing wasn't really an option, so he might have a better chance of soothing back to sleep without nursing. This also works for timid fathers who need practice soothing (ie, "Well, I recently finished my wine so you should probably take this one.")
There was a case in the news recently where a waiter did something (refused service or called the cops or asked them to leave? Don't remember) because a woman was drinking a beer WHILE breastfeeding. It made headlines as scandalous but her baby was just finishing a meal and she was just starting to drink, on a full stomach. With the time it would take for her body to absorb the alcohol and yada yada yada, the baby was going to be fine. But some (probably childless) waiter made a stink about it.