Way back when I first announced on here, I mentioned that my husband and I weren't finding out the sex of our unborn child because we're wanting to engage in gender neutral parenting, there was a bit of outcry and judgment with people saying that it was pointless because other people were going to gender our child or that we were doing our child a disservice by not giving them a gender identity. This article came across my Facebook feed today, and I feel like it explains the idea of gender neutral parenting really well and puts to rest a lot of the myths (for example, we're not going to be disappointed if we have a daughter who is the girliest girl who has ever happened -- we'll just have an equal lack of disappointment if we have a boy who is the girliest).
I think most of the people on here are actually going to be doing GNP, but are just not putting lables on it (which I have to admit, makes it sound pretentious). I have seen multiple threads where all the respondents say they will be allowing boys dolls and girls trucks. I myself will not deny my daughter the joys of transformer toys or tool sets if that's what lights her imagination on fire.
I think where the concept goes off the rails is when it is escalated to actively hiding the sex of your child. That is frankly weird. It'll draw tons of unwanted attention to your kid, and may encourage people to try to peek at your kid's junk to satisfy their curiosity. No child needs that.
As with everything, extremity breeds insanity. Moderation is key. This isn't a lifestyle choice, or some weird badge or ribbon or group cause, it's your kid's life. If you keep that in mind, you are aces.
100% with @Peledreamsofrain - that's how I define GNP, too. I grew up playing tea party and dress-up with my older brother who now is a beer guzzling, sports watching, belch-in-your-face-when-you-cross-his-path nasty manly man (I'll add that I'm the only one who gets the belch-in-the-face as the only sister in my family but I wanted to throw that in there since he's fucking 34 and should've grown out of that by now). I also played with GI Joes and Transformers. My parents never told us "that's for girls" or "that's for boys" which I think it the most important thing to teach your kids. They'll eventually gravitate towards feminine/masculine behaviors as they form their gender.
It's people who go about making it "weird" for their kids. Like trying to get their son to like pink or attempting to avoid having their daughter become girly. My cousins tried to prevent their daughter from acting on overtly feminine behaviors but she's 4 now and a card-carrying princess. There's only so much you can do to guide your child's gender.
Really the only thing you should do is step back and let them decide what's most comfortable. If my son is a wannabe super hero or athlete, cool. If he's a gamer, AWESOME!!!! (but I won't force him into it just because that's what *I* like). If he's effeminate, I will defend him against ignorance as best I can. If he's into fishing and hunting... ugh. But again, support. You do what you gotta do to support your kid's identity. Gender is just one of the many manifestations of their identity.
No suppression = good. Telling them how to behave based on what's between their legs = bad.
If I remember the thread correctly, the "outcry and judgement" was not really about GNP, as much as it was the idea that not finding out the sex before birth would prevent a family that is known to have rigid gender roles from treating a boy or girl differently after birth. I mean, they are going to find out eventually, right? Sooner or later, you're going to have to deal with it/discuss it with family members. (am I even remembering the right thread??) THAT is what people found pointless, IMO, if the only reason to not find out sex is fight the gender stereotypes. And maybe a little bit of feeling judged if they ARE finding out.
Anywho, I liked the article. But like pele said, you're not really alone in this crowd.
I've never heard of gender neutral parenting. What this thread is describing is just... Parenting. I don't understand the need to call attention to it or give it a fancy label to make myself feel better.
Anyone with a basic comprehension of early childhood development knows boys can play with dolls and girls can play with trucks and that it doesn't "turn them gay" or whatever it is people who are into rigid gender roles believe.
I don't understand the point of this thread. Maybe it's because I'm really sick and having trouble focusing. Isn't there another big thread on gender roles and toys around here or something?
I've never heard of gender neutral parenting. What this thread is describing is just... Parenting. I don't understand the need to call attention to it or give it a fancy label to make myself feel better. Anyone with a basic comprehension of early childhood development knows boys can play with dolls and girls can play with trucks and that it doesn't "turn them gay" or whatever it is people who are into rigid gender roles believe. I don't understand the point of this thread. Maybe it's because I'm really sick and having trouble focusing. Isn't there another big thread on gender roles and toys around here or something?
Perhaps you live in a liberal town or part of the country? Because sadly, this is not the norm where I'm from. In my town, it is, thank God. But in my state (Indiana)? Yeah, girls need to be feminine and boys must be masculine. There is no grey area. I can't count how many times I've winced outwardly when someone corrects their daughter for sitting or acting a certain way, or admonishes their son for crying and telling him to buck up and be a man. I was at our local orchard this fall and watched a man make his young son carry three pumpkins for his older sister because "he's the boy."
You are most fortunate if you live in a setting where it's normal to let kids explore gender without constraint. But in good ol' fashioned Indiana, a boy should learn leadership skills and a girl should learn how to keep house. It drives me crazy, but that's our social norm and I'm a radical for breaking it with my kids.
Honestly, nobody lives in a location without a societal structure constantly enforcing gender roles. Even the little stuff, like girls being subconciously told to sit down and be quiet more than her brothers. Or girls exposed to more color names than boys. I call shenanigans on anyone who claims their area has no gender roles. I WOULD believe that some areas have suppressed the more overt stuff like ripping dolls away from little boys, but not the really subtle stuff that has the biggest impact.
Think about it, what is the first thing someone says when meeting a little girl? "Oh! Your dress/hair/dimples are so cute/ pretty!".
I've never heard of gender neutral parenting. What this thread is describing is just... Parenting. I don't understand the need to call attention to it or give it a fancy label to make myself feel better. Anyone with a basic comprehension of early childhood development knows boys can play with dolls and girls can play with trucks and that it doesn't "turn them gay" or whatever it is people who are into rigid gender roles believe. I don't understand the point of this thread. Maybe it's because I'm really sick and having trouble focusing. Isn't there another big thread on gender roles and toys around here or something?
Perhaps you live in a liberal town or part of the country? Because sadly, this is not the norm where I'm from. In my town, it is, thank God. But in my state (Indiana)? Yeah, girls need to be feminine and boys must be masculine. There is no grey area. I can't count how many times I've winced outwardly when someone corrects their daughter for sitting or acting a certain way, or admonishes their son for crying and telling him to buck up and be a man. I was at our local orchard this fall and watched a man make his young son carry three pumpkins for his older sister because "he's the boy."
You are most fortunate if you live in a setting where it's normal to let kids explore gender without constraint. But in good ol' fashioned Indiana, a boy should learn leadership skills and a girl should learn how to keep house. It drives me crazy, but that's our social norm and I'm a radical for breaking it with my kids.
---------quote fail----------
Nope, I live in a conservative religious republican area. We're all pretty outdoorsy around here and hunting is the norm for both males and females. But we do tend to reach leadership to both men and women. And while gender typical gifts are most common, I've also not seen children shamed for playing with a variety of toys. Perhaps that's because my personal crowd is liberal and well-educated and nobody gives a fuck.
But basically what I meant to say with my post is, why does this style of parenting need some kind of label to bragsplain it or legitimize it?
I get that rigid gender roles run rampant in our culture. I'm certainly not blind to that. But I guess I just fail to see the necessity of saying "I got so much flack here on M15 for doing this style of parenting, so let me make a post to legitimize all my decisions and make myself feel better than everyone else."
I don't know. Maybe I'm just reading too much into things today. But I just don't get the necessity of this thread.
Editing to add: I think I'm trying to say the same thing Pele said, and just failing miserably at it, lol.
I wholly agree. Having said that, I believe that kids need equal exposure to both "girl" and "boy" toys. We had 3 girls before we had our son. We had a few "boy" type toys but our girls have always shown a preference to the more girly type of thing. However, when our son came along, we def bought a bunch of "boy" type toys. He loves to play cars, trucks, tools and Toy Story but he also loves playing kitchen, babies, Barbies/princesses and ponies. And there is nothing wrong with telling your daughter to sit properly when she's wearing a dress and showing off her undies or lifting up her dress- just like there's nothing wrong with telling you son to sit properly when he's being rowdy. My kids get treated pretty equally with chores and responsibilities. Sorry if this is all a big rambling response, my son busted his head last night running through our kitchen right before bed- it was a long night!
I think most of the people on here are actually going to be doing GNP, but are just not putting lables on it (which I have to admit, makes it sound pretentious). I have seen multiple threads where all the respondents say they will be allowing boys dolls and girls trucks. I myself will not deny my daughter the joys of transformer toys or tool sets if that's what lights her imagination on fire.
I think where the concept goes off the rails is when it is escalated to actively hiding the sex of your child. That is frankly weird. It'll draw tons of unwanted attention to your kid, and may encourage people to try to peek at your kid's junk to satisfy their curiosity. No child needs that.
As with everything, extremity breeds insanity. Moderation is key. This isn't a lifestyle choice, or some weird badge or ribbon or group cause, it's your kid's life. If you keep that in mind, you are aces.
100% agree!!! You summed up my thoughts on the subject perfectly!
I never knew there was a term for this. I'll have to let my hard core Republican dad know he was on the forefront of this trend. We always had toys he found interesting, and he taught me how to shoot a gun, took me bird hunting, and insisted I mow the lawn (which I still do better than my husband).
All that said, it's nice to see what was a little odd (in liberal Boston suburbs) becoming more mainstream. I still turned out to be a girly girl, but can do just about anything on my own (dealing with dead mice is still a man's job, though I have reluctantly taken care of those as well). As long as nothing is forced, I think this stuff produces well rounded people.
@DM718 I grew up in Texas and there's definitely split sides on what's "normal behavior" from a boy or girl, but my mom didn't care and taught me ALL the things. To your story- my college bf once got a flat on the side of the road and called me to say he was going to call a tow company to tow his car to a mechanic to change the tire!!! I flat out laughed at him, asked where he was, and then went and changed his damn tire for him. Thanks, parenting!!!
I've been thinking about this... how crappy that society wants to shame boys for doing "girly" things like playing with dolls, or being sensitive, and at the same time wants to shame adult men for not being hands-on enough in their parenting, being insensitive, etc.
I feel like it's just become a pissing contest to prove just how gender neutral all of us super modern moms can be, and then how much we can AW it on the Internet. Just another source of judgment to add to the mommy wars.
I kind of feel like that's how GNP came about. Like one woman escalated to "Oh yeah?!? Well I am so modern that we aren't even sharing our child's sex!! AND I've made an acronym for it!"
Maybe I'm the middle of the road here..I want my boys to play with whatever toys they want..I will not restrict them in that area..however, I also want to teach my boys how to be "gentlemen" where you open the door for a lady, pull out her chair, and carry her packages. I don't feel this makes you less of a woman I just find it extremely polite.
My husband pumps my gas (more often than not), carries in the groceries, holds open doors, mows the lawn, and takes care of our vehicles. He also sweeps, vacuums, dusts and does dishes on occasion..I very much appreciate how attentive and polite he is and hope our boys are the same..
^^. This. My H does all of that. I don't expect it but I appreciate it. And I hope to teach my son the same. I would also teach daughters to do the same for their elders.
Where is the line drawn? Is being gender stereo type neutral if I buy my son barbies and transformers? Do we live in a gender neutral household because I make the money, work in a traditionally male field and own all the property and make final decisions and my H works in a traditionally female field? He does most of the housework and we share whatever house repairs we don't contract out. All the time my nails are done and sometimes I'm wearing a dress. I shovel snow in a down skirt.
Really, I just want my son to have great role models and to be loved - and to know he is loved. I want him to do what he loves - not because he has to prove that boys can do anything girls can do, not do something big just because he has a penis, but because he gets true joy. I'm not going to put a tutu on him even though I like them - but I'll make him one - or teach him to make one if he wants. I think I am going to get him a snuggakitty swing because we love cats. I'm not trying to be anything but loving.
I did not read the link provided because it wouldnt load for me, I just wanted to say my part. My DH thinks he agrees with GNP, but only talks about our son in masculine context.
i know some PPs think GNP is common sense or "just parenting", but I disagree. I agree it SHOULD be common sense, but sadly its not always. I'm a dollar section junky, even though I know it will be a good year or two before my DS can use crayons/markers, and 3 years be for other forms of crafts, I will still buy those glitter pens on clearance! Anyways, my DH often turns around and says "why would my son need glitter. Get him some dinosaur stickers or something." Well one day, he will want to make mommy a picture and he knows mommy likes glitter. Or maybe DS himself will like glitter!
Point being, someone needs to provide the child with the opportunity to decide for themselves.
Haha, no matter what you do your kid is going to turn out however they turn out. I've seen big, "manly" guys who have the most feminine sons. My mom did everything in her power to make me a girly girl and I ended up being a tom boy who basically identifies along a masculine gender line as an adult. I think our parents and society have a lot of influence on us, but ultimately I think biology has a lot of say in how we turn out as well. I mean my mom tried for YEARS to get me into dolls and dresses and I was teased for being a tom boy. So how I turned out went against my parental influence and society.
So I really don't see the issue of dressing a daughter in frilly dresses or a boy in football jerseys or whatever. What I do have an issue with is, like pp said, people who go to the extreme and don't let girls play sports or boys play with dolls if that is what they are showing interest in. You don't really need to go out of your way to create a "gender-less environment" in order for your kids to find their own identities. Just let them be and support what they show interest in and then see what happens in 7-10 years.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
Maybe I'm the middle of the road here..I want my boys to play with whatever toys they want..I will not restrict them in that area..however, I also want to teach my boys how to be "gentlemen" where you open the door for a lady, pull out her chair, and carry her packages. I don't feel this makes you less of a woman I just find it extremely polite.
My husband pumps my gas (more often than not), carries in the groceries, holds open doors, mows the lawn, and takes care of our vehicles. He also sweeps, vacuums, dusts and does dishes on occasion..I very much appreciate how attentive and polite he is and hope our boys are the same..
Oh yes, I agree with this 100%. C and I are lesbians, after all, so we're going to need for our son to take care of us when we're old and frail We may be almighty women now but one day we're going to have a hard time reaching things off the top of the fridge, opening doors with our arms full, or freaking out about breaking our hips on the ice.
I don't care what my kids do otherwise, but they WILL be courteous regardless of their sex. My son will open doors, pull out chairs, offer to assist women and the elderly with heavy packages, and will offer his seat to a woman or child on public transport. My gay male friends do all these things, too. If you've got a penis that means you have power and privilege. The least you can do is carry my damned suitcase for me.
@lawsonellis Bahaha i had almost the same exact thing happen to me. My friend and i were riding in a car with our boyfriends when we got a flat tiredl. Her and i didn't want to get out cuz it was cold so we had then get out to change it and after about a half an hour of wondering what the hell was taking so long we finally had to get out and do it ourselves haha
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
Yea, nothing yoonique here, I think a lot of us parent or will parent this way, maybe we just don't need to label it?
I just call it good parenting.
And nobody had any outcry over you letting your kid play with whatever toy or wear whatever clothes he or she wants. Seeing as most people I meet on this board do the same thing, why would anyone get pissy?
I grew up with lesbian parents but also a very conservative family who is generally not quite for homosexuality and so while my mom's raised me to be whoever i want to be my family has been on a mission my whole life to make damn sure that i wasn't gay. In the end not but not cuz i gave a flying fuck what my family wanted but cuz that's who i am. I grew up a tom boy and still am but can be girly. i have bought my daughter a huge range of different clothes and because of who i am will prob grow up as more of a tom boy until she is able to decide what she wants to be. I have gotten pink clothes and blue clothes and will put on hey whatever i is cute lol personally i think that baby sweatpants are the moody adorable thing in the world and she had 50 pairs already lol ok not quite but a lot cuz that's whey SO and i wear. The way i envision the toy store going is taking hey there and saying "ok pick out what you want" and having no judgements on what she wants. I guess my point is that i will let her be who she wants to be but not go out of my way at it. If that makes sense. I guess what i mean is that if she likes Diego over Dora then that's cool but i doubt i will sit down with her and have a conversation about why. I know i won't push gender stereotypes on her but i also don't see myself reinforcing gender neutrality either.
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
@jessuhmarie bahaha yea I have seen the shows before but some of the other ones just drive me up the wall too haha maybe I will just stick with good ole fashioned barney and call it a day! that I can handle lol
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
Fucking Caillou. That shit will not be on my tv as long as I can avoid it
bahaha this one I have never seen but I will be sure to avoid it! There were others that I cant think of at this moment. SO even wants to up our cable plan because the one above the one we have includes like 2 extra kids channels but its something like an extra 20$ a month. Ummm no we are trying to save money, im sure we can find kids shows on the channels we have now, otrherwise she can just watch game shows with me! (I have a weird Game Show Network addiction) lol
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
@RQuinlin omg the fucking oinks in between every word in peppa pig. Makes me wanna ram my head into a wall. I swear they make these shows so obnoxious on purpose
@drudolph11 it makes me giggle that you can handle Barney lol. You must have grown up in it.
Religiously lol according to my mom. I'm 24 so barney was the shiz when i was little lol my mom has a box of, oh my, there must be over 50 barney tapes in there lol i didn't know if it was still as popular now. I grew up during the start of spongebob too and that seems to still be popular lol
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
@drudolph11 it makes me giggle that you can handle Barney lol. You must have grown up in it.
Religiously lol according to my mom. I'm 24 so barney was the shiz when i was little lol my mom has a box of, oh my, there must be over 50 barney tapes in there lol i didn't know if it was still as popular now. I grew up during the start of spongebob too and that seems to still be popular lol
Me too! Barney was my favorite and I couldn't sleep unless I had my Barney plushy.
I had a talking barney that my grandpa still has in display at his house lol
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
@drudolph11 it makes me giggle that you can handle Barney lol. You must have grown up in it.
Religiously lol according to my mom. I'm 24 so barney was the shiz when i was little lol my mom has a box of, oh my, there must be over 50 barney tapes in there lol i didn't know if it was still as popular now. I grew up during the start of spongebob too and that seems to still be popular lol
Me too! Barney was my favorite and I couldn't sleep unless I had my Barney plushy.
I had a talking barney that my grandpa still has in display at his house lol
My cousin loved Barney when she was young, and one year I bought her the singing doll for Christmas. Unfortunately, my dog found it and fell in love with it before I could give it to my cousin, so I not only had to buy another one, I had to live in a home where the dog was obsessed with a singing dinosaur doll.
@DM718 oh man ya i would have prob taken the damn singing box out lol which makes me think of something i just saw totally unrelated but it was this little over the door jumper for the baby that made it look like the baby was riding a cow. Too. Damn. Cute. I was almost sold. Until i watched the video and every time baby jumped the damn thing would moo. Fuck to the no! Haha that mooing would have lasted about 4 seconds in my house lol
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
Fucking Caillou. That shit will not be on my tv as long as I can avoid it
My dad refers to him as "that kid with cancer".
I miss the old days where cartoons were packed with inappropriate adult references that go right over kids' heads but the parents find amusing. The only cartoon I can even tolerate a little bit is Veggie Tales because they do still have a few references only adults will get. But not the best option if you aren't religious.
Oh, and South Park. Yeah... my kid watches South Park sometimes. He thinks its hilarious and has no idea what's actually happening. We may have to stop that once he starts the parrot repeating phase.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
Honestly, it's sadly not common sense. I brought up a scenario to my husband about our son (my stepson but I call him Mine he's 13) anyway I asked him if he'd have a problem with him playing with dolls when he was younger, and he was very specific about how if it was a Barbie he wouldn't allow it but if it was a doll he would be ok but wouldn't ever buy him anything like that no matter how much he wanted it. I said toys don't make kids gay and he actually answered that with " who knows cause nobody knows why some people are gay"!! Now my H is a pretty intelligent guy but his upbringing really screwed him up in some ways I'm starting to see. He's the type who thinks gay women are ok but not men and claims he'd be ok if his son comes out as gay but at the same time he uses the F word as an insult within earshot of his son so if I were my sson I would be terrified to come out. One more thing: we all agree about GNP but at the same time I recall a thread about "bronies" in which the majority of the responses thought it was "weird" or "creepy". That's a bit of a double standard and makes me think we may not be as progressive as we'd like to be
Fucking Caillou. That shit will not be on my tv as long as I can avoid it
My dad refers to him as "that kid with cancer".
I miss the old days where cartoons were packed with inappropriate adult references that go right over kids' heads but the parents find amusing. The only cartoon I can even tolerate a little bit is Veggie Tales because they do still have a few references only adults will get. But not the best option if you aren't religious.
Oh, and South Park. Yeah... my kid watches South Park sometimes. He thinks its hilarious and has no idea what's actually happening. We may have to stop that once he starts the parrot repeating phase.
Lol @ that kid with cancer my exh used to ask the same thing. I feel so bad for little Rosie he's such a dick to her
@drudolph11 - I think there is a special place in hell for people who design noise-making toys (singing dolls, mooing swings, etc).
I mean seriously if that damn thing annoyed me in the 3 seconds that i saw it on a video on amazon it HAD to annoy the people who created it and/or tested it out. Maybe those people have that job because they can tolerate that shit more than me but seriously if we took a poll of mothers on this board i bet at least 85% of them would agree that the mooing door jumper would be out the door in at least an hour. Like how do they create this stuff and then think "parents are gonna love this"? Wtf?
March 15' January Siggy Callenge: Animals Being Jerks
Re: Gender neutral parenting
I think where the concept goes off the rails is when it is escalated to actively hiding the sex of your child. That is frankly weird. It'll draw tons of unwanted attention to your kid, and may encourage people to try to peek at your kid's junk to satisfy their curiosity. No child needs that.
As with everything, extremity breeds insanity. Moderation is key. This isn't a lifestyle choice, or some weird badge or ribbon or group cause, it's your kid's life. If you keep that in mind, you are aces.
100% with @Peledreamsofrain - that's how I define GNP, too. I grew up playing tea party and dress-up with my older brother who now is a beer guzzling, sports watching, belch-in-your-face-when-you-cross-his-path nasty manly man (I'll add that I'm the only one who gets the belch-in-the-face as the only sister in my family but I wanted to throw that in there since he's fucking 34 and should've grown out of that by now). I also played with GI Joes and Transformers. My parents never told us "that's for girls" or "that's for boys" which I think it the most important thing to teach your kids. They'll eventually gravitate towards feminine/masculine behaviors as they form their gender.
It's people who go about making it "weird" for their kids. Like trying to get their son to like pink or attempting to avoid having their daughter become girly. My cousins tried to prevent their daughter from acting on overtly feminine behaviors but she's 4 now and a card-carrying princess. There's only so much you can do to guide your child's gender.
Really the only thing you should do is step back and let them decide what's most comfortable. If my son is a wannabe super hero or athlete, cool. If he's a gamer, AWESOME!!!! (but I won't force him into it just because that's what *I* like). If he's effeminate, I will defend him against ignorance as best I can. If he's into fishing and hunting... ugh. But again, support. You do what you gotta do to support your kid's identity. Gender is just one of the many manifestations of their identity.
No suppression = good. Telling them how to behave based on what's between their legs = bad.
Anyone with a basic comprehension of early childhood development knows boys can play with dolls and girls can play with trucks and that it doesn't "turn them gay" or whatever it is people who are into rigid gender roles believe.
I don't understand the point of this thread. Maybe it's because I'm really sick and having trouble focusing. Isn't there another big thread on gender roles and toys around here or something?
Perhaps you live in a liberal town or part of the country? Because sadly, this is not the norm where I'm from. In my town, it is, thank God. But in my state (Indiana)? Yeah, girls need to be feminine and boys must be masculine. There is no grey area. I can't count how many times I've winced outwardly when someone corrects their daughter for sitting or acting a certain way, or admonishes their son for crying and telling him to buck up and be a man. I was at our local orchard this fall and watched a man make his young son carry three pumpkins for his older sister because "he's the boy."
You are most fortunate if you live in a setting where it's normal to let kids explore gender without constraint. But in good ol' fashioned Indiana, a boy should learn leadership skills and a girl should learn how to keep house. It drives me crazy, but that's our social norm and I'm a radical for breaking it with my kids.
Think about it, what is the first thing someone says when meeting a little girl? "Oh! Your dress/hair/dimples are so cute/ pretty!".
Perhaps you live in a liberal town or part of the country? Because sadly, this is not the norm where I'm from. In my town, it is, thank God. But in my state (Indiana)? Yeah, girls need to be feminine and boys must be masculine. There is no grey area. I can't count how many times I've winced outwardly when someone corrects their daughter for sitting or acting a certain way, or admonishes their son for crying and telling him to buck up and be a man. I was at our local orchard this fall and watched a man make his young son carry three pumpkins for his older sister because "he's the boy."
You are most fortunate if you live in a setting where it's normal to let kids explore gender without constraint. But in good ol' fashioned Indiana, a boy should learn leadership skills and a girl should learn how to keep house. It drives me crazy, but that's our social norm and I'm a radical for breaking it with my kids.
---------quote fail----------Nope, I live in a conservative religious republican area. We're all pretty outdoorsy around here and hunting is the norm for both males and females. But we do tend to reach leadership to both men and women. And while gender typical gifts are most common, I've also not seen children shamed for playing with a variety of toys. Perhaps that's because my personal crowd is liberal and well-educated and nobody gives a fuck.
But basically what I meant to say with my post is, why does this style of parenting need some kind of label to bragsplain it or legitimize it?
I get that rigid gender roles run rampant in our culture. I'm certainly not blind to that. But I guess I just fail to see the necessity of saying "I got so much flack here on M15 for doing this style of parenting, so let me make a post to legitimize all my decisions and make myself feel better than everyone else."
I don't know. Maybe I'm just reading too much into things today. But I just don't get the necessity of this thread.
Editing to add: I think I'm trying to say the same thing Pele said, and just failing miserably at it, lol.
100% agree!!! You summed up my thoughts on the subject perfectly!
All that said, it's nice to see what was a little odd (in liberal Boston suburbs) becoming more mainstream. I still turned out to be a girly girl, but can do just about anything on my own (dealing with dead mice is still a man's job, though I have reluctantly taken care of those as well). As long as nothing is forced, I think this stuff produces well rounded people.
Edit: autocorrect
Where is the line drawn? Is being gender stereo type neutral if I buy my son barbies and transformers? Do we live in a gender neutral household because I make the money, work in a traditionally male field and own all the property and make final decisions and my H works in a traditionally female field? He does most of the housework and we share whatever house repairs we don't contract out. All the time my nails are done and sometimes I'm wearing a dress. I shovel snow in a down skirt.
Really, I just want my son to have great role models and to be loved - and to know he is loved. I want him to do what he loves - not because he has to prove that boys can do anything girls can do, not do something big just because he has a penis, but because he gets true joy. I'm not going to put a tutu on him even though I like them - but I'll make him one - or teach him to make one if he wants. I think I am going to get him a snuggakitty swing because we love cats. I'm not trying to be anything but loving.
I did not read the link provided because it wouldnt load for me, I just wanted to say my part. My DH thinks he agrees with GNP, but only talks about our son in masculine context.
i know some PPs think GNP is common sense or "just parenting", but I disagree. I agree it SHOULD be common sense, but sadly its not always. I'm a dollar section junky, even though I know it will be a good year or two before my DS can use crayons/markers, and 3 years be for other forms of crafts, I will still buy those glitter pens on clearance! Anyways, my DH often turns around and says "why would my son need glitter. Get him some dinosaur stickers or something." Well one day, he will want to make mommy a picture and he knows mommy likes glitter. Or maybe DS himself will like glitter!
Point being, someone needs to provide the child with the opportunity to decide for themselves.
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
Oh yes, I agree with this 100%. C and I are lesbians, after all, so we're going to need for our son to take care of us when we're old and frail We may be almighty women now but one day we're going to have a hard time reaching things off the top of the fridge, opening doors with our arms full, or freaking out about breaking our hips on the ice.
I don't care what my kids do otherwise, but they WILL be courteous regardless of their sex. My son will open doors, pull out chairs, offer to assist women and the elderly with heavy packages, and will offer his seat to a woman or child on public transport. My gay male friends do all these things, too. If you've got a penis that means you have power and privilege. The least you can do is carry my damned suitcase for me.
I just call it good parenting.
And nobody had any outcry over you letting your kid play with whatever toy or wear whatever clothes he or she wants. Seeing as most people I meet on this board do the same thing, why would anyone get pissy?
For SuzyQ and all March 15 loss moms
B born 7/15/13, C born 3/2/15, #3 on the way May '17
I’m a modern man, a man for the millennium. Digital and smoke free. A diversified multi-cultural, post-modern deconstruction that is anatomically and ecologically incorrect. I’ve been up linked and downloaded, I’ve been inputted and outsourced, I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading. I’m a high-tech low-life. A cutting edge, state-of-the-art bi-coastal multi-tasker and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond! I’m new wave, but I’m old school and my inner child is outward bound. I’m a hot-wired, heat seeking, warm-hearted cool customer, voice activated and bio-degradable. I interface with my database, my database is in cyberspace, so I’m interactive, I’m hyperactive and from time to time I’m radioactive.
Lol @ that kid with cancer my exh used to ask the same thing. I feel so bad for little Rosie he's such a dick to her