FI Not Interested in Attachment Parenting

dirtywordplay · November 2014

Hi, I've never posted on this board, as I'm just starting to TTC, but I have a question. I searched the boards several times and didn't find anything, although if it's been asked before, please link me to the thread.

I'm interested in doing attachment parenting with our future children, but FI doesn't seem to think that a child can learn to follow rules/directions or to respect us if we don't discipline more strongly. He was spanked growing up and sees that as the reason that he respected his parents. I was slapped, grabbed (hard enough to bruise) and emotionally abused throughout my childhood and I want to steer VERY clear of those things happening to my own kids. I trust FI to not abuse our children, but I would like to sway his opinion more toward attachment and away from punishments. Has anyone else had to convince their partner to follow gentler guidelines? Are there any books I should read on this topic? Any advice at all?

Emerald27 · November 2014

Have you discussed with him these good points about spanking:

- we should model the behavior we expect from our children: we can't teach them not to hit and yet hit them
- we want to teach our children what is right and to do what is right because that is good and best, not because they fear the consequence of doing wrong (why continue to do what's eight once the consequence isn't there, i.e. adulthood?)
- we don't want to teach our children that inflicting pain upon another person to coerce them into doing what we want is ever ok
- hitting your spouse is considered abuse, hitting a neighbor is considered assault...why is hitting a child any different??

Hopefully others will have some good book recs! This one is a great one for new fathers:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0912500964/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1410654592&sr=8-1

dirtywordplay · November 2014

Thank you both for the replies, I have brought several of those points up, and he seems to see spanking as a last resort, which I guess I am okay with...if a child is in danger or something and won't listen, then it is okay to sort of shock the child IMO. He was spanked up until he was a teen, and has agreed to stop once children are potty trained, so I am hoping I can keep working that.
He agrees with many concepts of AP, like Bfing as long as I/baby want, baby wearing, etc. He just won't seem to give up the option of spanking.

opheliainwaders · November 2014

dirtywordplay said:
Thank you both for the replies, I have brought several of those points up, and he seems to see spanking as a last resort, which I guess I am okay with...if a child is in danger or something and won't listen, then it is okay to sort of shock the child IMO. He was spanked up until he was a teen, and has agreed to stop once children are potty trained, so I am hoping I can keep working that.
He agrees with many concepts of AP, like Bfing as long as I/baby want, baby wearing, etc. He just won't seem to give up the option of spanking.

FWIW, spanking a child who's not even old enough to be potty trained basically just means that he's hitting a small person, who trusts him so much, and doesn't have the capacity to understand why someone they love is hurting them.

Not negotiable for me, I wouldn't be TTC we worked this out.

pixieprincss · November 2014

Like others, I agree with holding off progress until you've come to an agreement on things. While we all have the right to change and grow as life progresses, at least starting on the same page sets everyone up for success. Parenting from two different styles lead to many, many occurrences that are are "love busters". For example, dad sees mom as a pushover and loses respect for her decision-making abilities; mom sees dad as unkind and she feels defensive about the kids, thus building up a wall that impacts emotional and physical intimacy.

As for books, Attached at the Heart is a great book that covers the ideas of AP, the (modern) history of punitive parenting, and lots of evidence-based information on why AP is an optimal path. There also are Attached at the Heart classes you can take in a few parts of the country, but it isn't widespread yet.

FemShep · November 2014

fredalina said:

Honestly, this would be pretty non negotiable for me. I would not proceed with TTC and marriage until you get on the same page about not intentional hitting a child for punishment.

I agree with this. I have a 2 1/2 yo, and part of normal development is testing boundaries. I would never be comfortable with spanking a child, even as a "last resort", who is only acting the way a child should. There is absolutely nothing my daughters could do, at 9 and 2 1/2, that would ever justify physically attacking them-and that is exactly what spanking is.

I'm sorry, but your FI needs counseling. And there's no way I would marry or have children with someone who feels that beating a child is acceptable.

honkytonk_kid · November 2014

My H was spanked growing up. FWIW I do NOT think he was abused, his parents are wonderful people who did the best they knew how to do. Where we live spanking is widely considered to be the norm. I know H just assumed he would spank our children, probably quite like your husband. We had many many theoretical conversations about it before LO was born and while he was tiny, and while he may not be as absolutely against spanking as I am he can see that it is not necessary to raise a child, and we do not and will not spank.

Do you know any parents who use gentle discipline? I think people who grew up getting spankings in an otherwise very loving home don't always know the alternatives. Sometimes there is an idea that gently-disciplined kids just run totally wild. It may help him to talk with some parents who have been there, and see how it's possible to discipline children both effectively and gently.

FemShep · November 2014

fredalina said:

FWIW I do not think spanking is the same thing as "beating" or "attacking" a child, and I don't believe it is always (or probably even usually considering 80% of parents have spanked their kids) abuse. I still don't think it's an appropriate method of discipline and you two should get on the same page about it before you marry or conceive.

Spanking=intentionally hitting a child with the intention to cause pain

How is that not beating a child? Because you're using an open hand instead of a closed one? To me, that is a semantic distinction that can't obscure the fact that you are deliberately choosing to strike your child and cause pain.

lizardknitter · November 2014

PBI - my DD was potty trained at 16 months. And even if I was okay with spanking (which I am not), that is pretty young to think that spanking has had a lifelong behavioral impact. Why such an arbitrary age/timeline? Even if your future child is potty trained by age 4, most people don't have memory formed before 3 so what impact would spanking have over education and reasoning with the kid?

dirtywordplay · November 2014

The reasoning is partially that I have seen parents (who are 'good parents' IMO) who spanked while their children were in diapers because A) it didn't actually hurt the child, and

the child wasn't able to understand 'no' yet. We are still discussing it, and his thoughts on many things seem to be different now than they were when parenting was still in the distant future. He is becoming much more gentle-minded as the idea of being a father is closer to reality.

I don't believe that he would abuse our children (or anyone else's), I just don't think he's ever seen children who are parented gently grow up to be respectful, well-mannered children. He has seen either strict parents who use spanking and punishment and have children turn out to have self control and respect for others, or parents who don't discipline their children much at all (often who didn't intend to become parents, and may not invest the time/energy into their children that is needed to parent gently) and have children who are unruly spoiled brats.

It's a work in progress, but there is progress. Thank you for all of the suggestions, I will look into the books once my finals are done.

opheliainwaders · December 2014

The logical consequences thing (so far) for us has been HUGELY helpful. It takes endless repetition, but if EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. she (for instance) stands up on the couch, I say, "if you stand on the couch, I will take you down," and she gets taken down and put on the floor, it eventually results in less standing on the couch.

It actually worked REALLY quickly this week - she decided blowing raspberries in my face while I was holding her was INCREDIBLY fun. So, every time she did it, I said in a firm-but-nice voice, "no no, if you spit, I put you down." and put her down. Yesterday, she stuck her tongue out, then paused and said, "no no pit." I know it sounds ridiculous, but it was a HUGE victory, and I gave her a high-five, which made her super-happy. Toddlers, man.

dirtywordplay · December 2014

Just an update, I had an emotional talk with him last night about my feelings and my reasons for things, and I asked him to promise never to spank our children. He promised to really try. We will continue looking at resources and information for gentle parenting (gotta say, pinterest has a lot) and I will continue to educate him about alternatives. Thank you all for your responses and advice. I'll probably go back to lurking here.

lizardknitter · December 2014

I know I'm coming back to this, but the comment that he promises "he will try not to spank" concerns me. If spanking is honestly on the table for discussion, it should NEVER be done in anger. If you're going to spank (which again I disagree with as a philosophy), doing it in anger will just result in a child who fears the parent.

irispearl · December 2014

There are some great books out there. One that I read, which had a lot of great info on AP ( attachment parenting ) was called " Beyond the Sling" by Mayim Bialik ( akaBlossom) . It has lots of down to earth advice on All kinds on AP topics. One of the subjects is " gentle discipline". Check your local library for a free copy!

sugarbear0524 · December 2014

You may not always be on the same page, but remember that this is just as much his child as it is yours. He gets a vote. Don't see it as your mission to convince him that you're right. Listen to what he has to say, then tell him your ideas. Get some of the big things (like spanking) dealt with before you conceive.

Don't get too caught up in some of the other stuff like bed sharing, baby wearing, etc. because you don't know what your baby's temperament and needs will be. Most of us have had some of our best-laid plans go out the window once a real, live baby is in our lives.

jessandandy09 · January 2015

Here is how I explained it to my husband. Every time I am at work and my boss doesn't like what I did or thinks I need to learn a lesson, are you okay with him bending me over his knee and spanking me? I am not okay with that, and I am not okay with you teaching our small, trusting and dependent child in that manner either.

AliceKC9876 · January 2015

Spanking a child in diapers is not okay....I wouldn't marry or have children with someone who promised to "really try" not to spank our children. That would be a deal breaker for me.

peeppeeppeep · January 2015

jessandandy09 said:
Here is how I explained it to my husband. Every time I am at work and my boss doesn't like what I did or thinks I need to learn a lesson, are you okay with him bending me over his knee and spanking me? I am not okay with that, and I am not okay with you teaching our small, trusting and dependent child in that manner either.

I don't get the analogy here - are you comparing yourself to a small, trusting and dependent child?

FWIW, I am anti-spanking...but this would not convince me to change my mind if I weren't.

Mama-Bear · January 2015

I can't help with swaying his opinion, but neither of us were interested in AP before DS1 was born, that changed immediately. DS1 is 7 (our twins are 5) and they all sneak in our room at times and we love the extra snuggle time. FYI, they'll also stay in their bed if we tell them to so they can and do sleep on their own, but they prefer to snuggle with us.

npierce19 · February 2015

These websites should have lots of resources and information to help you. There is scientific research to back up your choice and lots of information you can share with your FI https://www.attachmentparenting.org/ https://www.parentingscience.com/attachment-parenting.html https://www.awareparenting.com/

KateLouise · February 2015

There's a huge difference between punishing your child and teaching your child discipline.

Not spanking does not mean there is no discipline. However gentler methods can take patience and perseverance.

To my mind though consistently repeating an exercise with a child like pp example of taking them off the couch every time they jump on it has the added bonus of modelling self discipline, patience and persistence. As well as teaching your child that when Mum said "x" she meant and she will follow through every single time.

FI Not Interested in Attachment Parenting

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