Christian Marraige Advice Please (long)

lexusolsen · November 2014

I was not raised in an abusive household but my grandfather was verbally abusive towards my grandmother. They separated in and off for over forty years until they finally got divorced. Like penguin's mother, my Catholic grandmother was told by her family and priest that she had made a commitment and needed to stick it out.

All of their kids' relationships show some sign of it, although none of them is (to my knowledge) in an abusive relationship. My grandfather was the fun one because my grandma did everything. The most of their adult kids to this day prefer their father to their mother. They used to feel bad for him since my grandma was always "on his case". Staying with him totally backfired on her.

Please don't show your kids that your husband is treating you how they should be treated or treat others.

mandymack · November 2014

@rosesandpetals - {sigh} I hear ya, I really do; however, as lalamama pointed out, we aren't babysitters who loom over to protect hurt feelings and we can't tell people how to post if they aren't actually breaking the TOU. Opinions, regardless of how we all feel about them, aren't a violation.

HBirdie · November 2014

Oh, this is just so, so hard. I really feel for you. It's a tough issue to try to work through and I truly don't know the right answer. I think people can change, yes, and I see why you want to think carefully through the spiritual ramifications before you give up on your marriage... but with kids being involved, I can't fathom that a loving God wants you to keep subjecting them (and yourself) to that. Verbal abuse does leave deep scars, and there is no reason to believe he won't turn to physical abuse at some point. No amount of being "nice" makes up for the way he's treating you and his children.

I'm no expert by any means, so take all of this with a grain of salt. These are my thoughts re: lack of intimacy: God designed marriage to be the ultimate commitment to another person, to share in life and child-rearing and, yes, sex and intimacy. I think it's part of his design. If your husband is withholding physical love from you to hurt you or make a point or _____, that is another form of abuse. This coupled with the name calling and other verbal abuse does not paint a pretty picture. By treating you this way, he is not upholding his vow to God to cherish you and to treat you the way you deserve to be treated. If someone were responsible for breaking this marriage, it sounds like it's him.

As far as divorce being worse for your kids than verbal abuse: NO. Get that out of your head right now and don't entertain the thought for another second. Your daughters are learning from you every day what they should be looking for in a partner when they grow up. Do you want them to be treated this way? Of course not. Your sons are seeing your husband model what marriage is like. Do you want them to push their wives around someday or call them names? No. Your kids are far better off seeing their strong, confident, brave mama making her way in the world with no husband, than to see her downtrodden by a man who should love and respect her but doesn't.

I hope you know that you don't deserve to be treated this way at all. Even if you didn't have children to protect... you deserve someone who will truly love you. You do. I hope you'll keep reminding yourself of that. God doesn't want you to suffer.

I can see how important it is for you to do right by God and I think that is admirable. I really hope you'll spend time in prayer. Ask Him for answers. Yell, cry, scream, be silent, talk until your voice is hoarse. Whatever you need to do. And continue to seek counsel, it sounds like you're on the right path for that. I'll be praying for you. I hope you'll keep us updated. PM me anytime.

notreal2 · November 2014

txbutterfly said:

Thank you for your replies, didn't mean to start a debate, just looking for biblical advice. I have left with my kids for a night and said if he didn't change I wouldn't come back and of course he promised to change. I did go talk to a pastor and he recommended my husband come in to talk to him too but he won't since he goes there sometimes. He said some of the same stuff everyone here is saying that God wants husbands to love their wives not belittle them. He said to try to get him to go to counseling too and that if he doesn't get help then a separation may be needed. He did say divorce is a sin like any other that would be forgivable especially if I'm protecting myself or my kids. However some of my Christian friends think that other than physical abuse or cheating there is no biblical reason to leave and that we should keep trying to get counseling and work it out. One even said divorce is much harder on kids than verbal abuse. Also my kids say the bad stuff about him after a rage episode but then when he's nice they love him. It's confusing since he's nice most the time and it's hard to know what is normal arguing and what is abuse, even though the counselor I've been seeing usually says its abuse when he name calls, etc. Does anyone have anything to say on not being interested in me physically? Not sure if it's related to the abuse like withholding or if he's just depressed and acting out in anger and withdrawing. He said he will go to counseling this week, so we will see.

With all due respect, your friends don't have to live in this situation every day. Unless they are offering a place to stay or some sort of physical help at this point, I would ignore any advice they give on the subject since they seem to be unable to be helpful.

jensriot · November 2014

olivegoose said:

Divorce is not harder on children than watching their father emotionally abuse their mother. I promise you that.

This. Divorce is hard on kids, absolutely. Watching a person they love be beat down verbally is harder. I've been through both. He will verbally abuse the kids. I think the chances of that not happening are slim to none. I have been called so many things and told so many terrible things, watched dinner plates fly across the dining room, been sexually abused...the divorce was hard (my mom left my dad and married the abuser). The abuse was torture. I have vivid, terrible vivid memories of things that happened. Not one of them include him physically hurting my mother. The lack of physical attack doesn't mean your children aren't being damaged permanently.
The fact that you are so worried about his lack of interest in you makes me so sad because it shows that you probably will never leave. Your children need a safe environment and immediate counseling. Please consider that they will carry this with them always.

MrsHarking · November 2014

@txbutterfly‌ I'm not religious so I don't have a lot to add to that part of the conversation but I wanted to say that I am glad you came back and sorted through all the replies. I firmly believe that kids are better off with divorced parents than they are living in an abusive household.

Ducktapetherapy · November 2014

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I would suggest not giving up on your marriage so easily as some have suggested. You clearly love him still, the concern is; whats going on under the surface? You do need to have boundaries set up for the protection of you and your children. If he is unwilling to change and get help, there is always seperation for a time. If you have a counselor that's working, that's great. **SPAM EDITED BY MOD - NO BUSINESS REFERRAL LINKS ALLOWED!** @ducktapetherapy you have a PM!

HUGS!!

~Ducktapetherapy77

notreal2 · November 2014

Ducktapetherapy said:

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I would suggest not giving up on your marriage so easily as some have suggested. You clearly love him still, the concern is; whats going on under the surface? You do need to have boundaries set up for the protection of you and your children. If he is unwilling to change and get help, there is always seperation for a time. If you have a counselor that's working, that's great. **SPAM EDITED BY MOD - NO BUSINESS REFERRAL LINKS ALLOWED!**HUGS!!
~Ducktapetherapy77

NO ONE ever said what she needs to do is easy. Also, it seems HE IS THE ONE who has already "given up" on the marriage. She's just protecting herself and her children. This is the kind of judgmental non-help she has been getting from people in her life. OP seriously, don't let some one who is being self-righteous stop you from doing what is the safest and best option for you and your family.

Also, Focus on the Family is not going to make everything bunnies and rainbows with one phone call.

jensriot · November 2014

Ducktapetherapy said:

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I would suggest not giving up on your marriage so easily as some have suggested. You clearly love him still, the concern is; whats going on under the surface? You do need to have boundaries set up for the protection of you and your children. If he is unwilling to change and get help, there is always seperation for a time. If you have a counselor that's working, that's great. **SPAM EDITED BY MOD - NO BUSINESS REFERRAL LINKS ALLOWED!** .HUGS!!
~Ducktapetherapy77

Seriously though, this has been going on for YEARS. At least four according to her post history.

MrsHarking · November 2014

Ducktapetherapy said:
I am so sorry that you are going through this. I would suggest not giving up on your marriage so easily as some have suggested. You clearly love him still, the concern is; whats going on under the surface? You do need to have boundaries set up for the protection of you and your children. If he is unwilling to change and get help, there is always seperation for a time. If you have a counselor that's working, that's great. **SPAM EDITED BY MOD - NO BUSINESS REFERRAL LINKS ALLOWED!** @ducktapetherapy you have a PM!
HUGS!!
~Ducktapetherapy77

WTF? You obviously didn't read the post

Aussie45 · November 2014

olivegoose said:
Divorce is not harder on children than watching their father emotionally abuse their mother. I promise you that.

Beyond even the kids watching the verbal abuse pan out, you need to do what you need. You don't deserve to walk on eggshells to try to keep his moods in check. If you want to give counseling a shot before divorce, it might be a good idea to live separately. Is there any family or friends that you could ask for help? Both of you taking a breather may give a little bit more insight as to what you should do.

I will say this, even if you didn't have kids, NO ONE should ever be abused by their spouse. Physical, sexual, and emotional are all equally damaging in their own way. You deserve better than that. Marriage is to have a supportive and loving partner; that doesn't mean that couples won't ever go through rough spots, however if your kids are saying they hate their dad and trying to protect you then it has transcended into something more than just working arguments out between you too. You should never have to worry about making sure that nothing you do sets him off. Life, in that instance, would be lived in fear, and I truly believe that God would not want that for you.

Please, do something different. Whether that be living somewhere else while getting counseling, living apart to try to weight options, or divorce. Again, mental abuse is the same as physical and sexual. Mental doesn't leave physical signs people can see, but the damage is there regardless. I saw this growing up. It's what caused me to move halfway across the country from my parents (among other factors). I still tell my mom constantly to leave my dad and vice versa. They are horrible for each other and got married for all the wrong reasons and they both verbally (and somewhat mentally) abuse the other one. It's sad, heartbreaking, and horrible that the two of them have stayed together this long with SO many problems between them. Please get help, you deserve so much more than this. Regardless of your choice, something needs to change ASAP.

mandymack · November 2014

aggiecyd said:

I'm wondering where my post went. Help @mandymack‌?

@aggiecyd That is soooooooo weird, I can't find it anywhere (though I have no clue what it said as I wasn't online!) - there are no reports, no mod notes. Crazy fluke?!? I'll keep asking...

Ace226 · November 2014

Submissiveness as a wife, to me, means following your husbands counsel if and ONLY if he listens to the counsel of The Lord. If he fails to live up to that commandment, you are under no obligation to follow him because he's not being a spiritual leader. He's being a tyrant. Men and women were designed to be married as partners, not as slave and slave driver.
God won't be disappointed in you for leaving.
But I do wish you all the best; it's a tough road, but it's worth it:) you are more than what he treats you like.

AppleMomma · November 2014

Oh this is a hard place to be Momma. I have no advice but prayers to offer. Good luck with your decision.

StacyJYay · November 2014

MrsHarking said:

@txbutterfly‌ I'm not religious so I don't have a lot to add to that part of the conversation but I wanted to say that I am glad you came back and sorted through all the replies. I firmly believe that kids are better off with divorced parents than they are living in an abusive household.

+1. Watching one's dad abuse one's mom -- regardless of whether it's physical, verbal, emotional, or financial abuse -- is so very harmful. Even your pastor noted that divorce would be forgivable here in the eyes of your church. Best and peaceful wishes to you.

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Christian Marraige Advice Please (long)

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