Breastfeeding Links & Talk

Emerald27 · October 2014

rosalie12 said:
Is it normal for your breast to be sore during and after a marathon cluster feeding? I'm thinking it's just from constant feeding but thought I'd ask if anyone else experiences this. I don't think her latch is wrong, and I am still using a nipple shield the majority of the time.

Slight soreness/aching in your breasts after cluster feeding is normal. Lots of pain, not normal. Is the pain in your breasts or nipples (I ask because you mention latch and the shield).

Emerald27 · October 2014

LightBright515 said:
My supply seems better at night. I was able to pump 2.5 oz. this morning? Nada.

Your supply is highest overnight and in the morning. Are you breastfeeding and pumping or EPing? .5oz is a normal yield after BFing, so 2.5oz is great!

ashie0610 · October 2014

LO has started spitting up quite a bit after feedings. I have an oversupply which I thought I was getting under control and a very strong letdown that causes him to pull off. He's been fussy at the breast after just a few minutes and still is choking at times despite laid back breastfeeding positions and squirting my initial letdown of milk onto a towel.

Is there anything else I can do to avoid the spitting up? He seems to want to eat right after and then it starts the cycle again.

rosalie12 · October 2014

Emerald27 said:

rosalie12 said:
Is it normal for your breast to be sore during and after a marathon cluster feeding? I'm thinking it's just from constant feeding but thought I'd ask if anyone else experiences this. I don't think her latch is wrong, and I am still using a nipple shield the majority of the time.
Slight soreness/aching in your breasts after cluster feeding is normal. Lots of pain, not normal. Is the pain in your breasts or nipples (I ask because you mention latch and the shield).

The pain is mostly all over my breast, but also in my nipple sometimes. It's not a severe pain, but just achy as you mentioned. I wish we could stop using the shield but I can't get her to latch every time without it. Maybe it will get better as she gets bigger?

Emerald27 · October 2014

@ashie0610 Have you tried hand expressing a bit before you nurse, to initiate a letdown and take some pressure off? That may make the flow a bit slower when LO latches and begins nursing. Burping him a few times during feedings may also help reduce the spitting up, because expelling gas from their tummies often brings spit up with it.

There may not be much you can do about the spitting up. As long as he isn't uncomfortable when he spits up, it's more of a time consuming (more nursing afterward) laundry problem than anything else.

The good news is that between 4 and 6 weeks, most mothers' supplies will adjust to meet baby's needs, so your oversupply may self-regulate before too long. Good luck!

ETA: When you do burp LO, make sure you're not rubbing/tapping too strongly. That can cause babies to spit up too.

Emerald27 · October 2014

rosalie12 said:

Emerald27 said:

rosalie12 said:
Is it normal for your breast to be sore during and after a marathon cluster feeding? I'm thinking it's just from constant feeding but thought I'd ask if anyone else experiences this. I don't think her latch is wrong, and I am still using a nipple shield the majority of the time.
Slight soreness/aching in your breasts after cluster feeding is normal. Lots of pain, not normal. Is the pain in your breasts or nipples (I ask because you mention latch and the shield).
The pain is mostly all over my breast, but also in my nipple sometimes. It's not a severe pain, but just achy as you mentioned. I wish we could stop using the shield but I can't get her to latch every time without it. Maybe it will get better as she gets bigger?

Hopefully she won't cluster feed for too long.

It usually takes a few days for cluster feeding to increase your supply. Then she might return to nursing a normal amount.

At some point, maybe you can wean from the shield. You can try slipping it off mid-feeding if she won't take the breast without it at the start of a feeding. You can also take it off at the end of a feeding and see if she'll latch again briefly. Sometimes when they're hungry, offering something they're not used to (i.e. the breast sans shield) just makes them mad.

ashie0610 · October 2014

Thanks, @Emerald27‌. I will try that today.

I know I should probably burp him more too but I swear getting a burp out of him is like winning the lottery! I know the gas is in there too so I may just be a bad burper. Good to know about doing it too strongly. That could be the issue!

Emerald27 · October 2014

ashie0610 said:
Thanks, @Emerald27‌. I will try that today.

I know I should probably burp him more too but I swear getting a burp out of him is like winning the lottery! I know the gas is in there too so I may just be a bad burper. Good to know about doing it too strongly. That could be the issue!

Burping babies is such an interesting thing. Some cultures don't do it at all! It's typically popular in the cultures where bottle use is common, because bottlefed babies will take in a fair bit of air. So some people say that breastfed babies don't have to be burped at all! ...but in my experience, babies take in enough air at the initial latch that it's well worth burping them. In fact, I've never met a breastfed baby who didn't benefit from burping! It should just be done gently enough that they don't spit up their meal.

rosalie12 · October 2014

@Emerald27‌ thank you! I will try removing the shield mid feeding today. You're right in that when I try to offer my breast alone and she's hungry, she just cries more. I would love to stop using it. I hope I can stop it soon.

ashie0610 · October 2014

Emerald27 said:

ashie0610 said:
Thanks, @Emerald27‌. I will try that today.

I know I should probably burp him more too but I swear getting a burp out of him is like winning the lottery! I know the gas is in there too so I may just be a bad burper. Good to know about doing it too strongly. That could be the issue!
Burping babies is such an interesting thing. Some cultures don't do it at all! It's typically popular in the cultures where bottle use is common, because bottlefed babies will take in a fair bit of air. So some people say that breastfed babies don't have to be burped at all! ...but in my experience, babies take in enough air at the initial latch that it's well worth burping them. In fact, I've never met a breastfed baby who didn't benefit from burping! It should just be done gently enough that they don't spit up their meal.

I think he gets a lot of air from constantly popping off at the initial letdown too.

And I just tried a more gentle pat and got a good burp. Woo hoo!

Emerald27 · October 2014

rosalie12 said:
@Emerald27‌ thank you! I will try removing the shield mid feeding today. You're right in that when I try to offer my breast alone and she's hungry, she just cries more. I would love to stop using it. I hope I can stop it soon.

It takes time and patience to transition away from the shield. Just try slipping it off occasionally. The more she latches and nurses without it mid-feeding, the more likely she will be willing to take the breast alone at the start of a feeding.

Dani0329 · October 2014

I did a quick a quick search of thrush in this thread and didn't find anything. I am EBF and notice LO's tongue is white, at first it was only after feedings and would disappear so I assumed breast milk. Now the white stays all he time, neither one of us have any other symptoms. Any BTDT?

Emerald27 · October 2014

Dani0329 said:
I did a quick a quick search of thrush in this thread and didn't find anything. I am EBF and notice LO's tongue is white, at first it was only after feedings and would disappear so I assumed breast milk. Now the white stays all he time, neither one of us have any other symptoms. Any BTDT?

Probably normal. DS' tongue is always white.

Is the white stuff patchy and thick looking?

Dani0329 · October 2014

Emerald27 said:

Dani0329 said:
I did a quick a quick search of thrush in this thread and didn't find anything. I am EBF and notice LO's tongue is white, at first it was only after feedings and would disappear so I assumed breast milk. Now the white stays all he time, neither one of us have any other symptoms. Any BTDT?
Probably normal. DS' tongue is always white.

Is the white stuff patchy and thick looking?

No, just seems white and it's towards the back of her tongue only. She doesn't appear to be in pain during feedings.

windwithfingers · October 2014

Dani0329 said:
I did a quick a quick search of thrush in this thread and didn't find anything. I am EBF and notice LO's tongue is white, at first it was only after feedings and would disappear so I assumed breast milk. Now the white stays all he time, neither one of us have any other symptoms. Any BTDT?

This happened to me. Doctor said it's normal.

Dani0329 · October 2014

@Emerald27‌ @AmyG*‌ @windwithfingers‌

Thank you! I think I was just being paranoid!

ashie0610 · October 2014

AmyG* said:

ashie0610 said:

LO has started spitting up quite a bit after feedings. I have an oversupply which I thought I was getting under control and a very strong letdown that causes him to pull off. He's been fussy at the breast after just a few minutes and still is choking at times despite laid back breastfeeding positions and squirting my initial letdown of milk onto a towel.

Is there anything else I can do to avoid the spitting up? He seems to want to eat right after and then it starts the cycle again.

@ashie0610

Are you feeding on both sides per feeding? make sure you are finishing side #1 for as long as baby wants, burp and then reoffer side #1. then burp and offer side 2 as dessert which sounds like he probably really doesn't need.

What happens sometimes with oversupply is there is just way too many oz of milk, but baby wants the hindmilk that comes toward the end of the feed. so they nurse, burp, spit up the excess foremilk which tends to come out cause it weighs less, and then nurse some more to get the hindmilk. Hindmilk fats signal baby's brain that they are full and to stop eating.

so making sure they get all the hindmilk they can out of side #1 may help. use breast compressions and massage during feeds can also help the fat loosen from the walls of the ducts so baby will get hindmilk faster.

We are mammals and no other mammal switches sides--one breast produces the perfect mix of fore and hindmilk. when we switch sides we signal our body that we are nursing twins, and then one baby struggles with too much milk. A more natural way to nurse is one side per feeding. With serious oversupply, some moms have to do two feedings or a longer block of time on one side, then the same amt of time/feeds on the other side. you don't pump the unused side, as being full signals your body to lower supply a bit. , read up at kellymom, etc about block feeding.

--end quote--

I am only doing one side per feeding every time and he's usually done in only about 10 minutes. I'm wondering if it's time to switch to block feeding but I'm so worried about clogged ducts/mastitis again. Should I give it another week or two to see if it corrects on its own?

Emerald27 · October 2014

theresat858 said:
Baby is consistently only taking in 0.7-1 ounce per side when we do weighed feedings, and typically only nurses one side per feeding. (Falls asleep or just won't take second breast). She does nurse often during the day (one 4 hr stretch then 1.5-2 hr stretches at night).
Weight gain is now good - 5 ounces this week; 14 ounces in 2 weeks.

Assume she transfers more at other times of the day (all LC support groups are midday here) and not worry about it, since weight gain is on track?

I would say she sounds good. 14 oz in 2 weeks is perfect. It seems likely to me that it's just the time of day or fat content of your milk when you do the weighed feeding that makes it less, or maybe the environment makes DD take less milk. Who knows? But she's gaining well. If her diapers look good, I say you two are doing great!

Emerald27 · October 2014

theresat858 said:

savagek7 said:
Excedrin while breastfeeding. Good idea, bad idea? I have a massive headache that's not going away.
Nope. It has aspirin, which isn't BF safe. You can take Tylenol and drink some caffeine, and also Advil is safe. Just not aspirin (salicylic acid).

This! Also, make sure you're drinking enough water and consuming enough calories.

LightBright515 · October 2014

Went against my better judgement and pumped both sides. Of course LO woke up and is looking so dissatisfied with her feeding...

Emerald27 · October 2014

LightBright515 said:
Went against my better judgement and pumped both sides. Of course LO woke up and is looking so dissatisfied with her feeding...

It's a little more work, but you have enough milk for her. Sorry she's frustrated.

haboobjob · October 2014

crawford411 said:

@justaudrey‌ Hang in there dear. It sounds like you are trying all of the right things. Just rest assured that your baby is getting proper nutrition whether it comes from the bottle or the breast. Have you tried the SNS system? A lot of moms who are supplementing have tried it and had some success.

Thanks lady! I hadn't heard about the SNS system. I'll have to take a look into it. I'm definitely up for anything. I'd like to make this work.

It's just hard staying positive when your child looks terrified every time you pull your boob out!

Emerald27 · October 2014

@keelyd‌, are your areolas drawn into the flanges with your nipples? If so, the flanges may be too big.

How much are you supposed to supplement DS? And how often are you nursing? Galactagogues and pumping can be very helpful for bringing up supply, but even better than those is frequent nursing and skin-to-skin (which I know you're doing).

I would suggest making an effort to bring DS to the breast to nurse, and for skin-to-skin if he's not hungry and won't nurse, every 1-2 hours (and on demand in between - any time he wakes up or makes a peep) for a couple days. Even just spending the day in bed together under the covers, nursing as often as he'll take the boob, can help increase supply a lot.

((Hugs)) and best of luck!

rosalie12 · October 2014

Emerald27 said:

LightBright515 said:
Went against my better judgement and pumped both sides. Of course LO woke up and is looking so dissatisfied with her feeding...
It's a little more work, but you have enough milk for her. Sorry she's frustrated.

I logged on to say exactly this. I pumped both sides out and then she woke up wanting to cluster feed. She is hysterical. We gave her a bottle of breast milk but it didn't seem to help much. Is breast milk produced as she is feeding even if I had just emptied my breast?

rosalie12 · October 2014

@AmyG*‌ thank you so much! I definitely was stressing out. She is better and eating now.

haboobjob · October 2014

AmyG* said:

Sometimes we goof if we hold the back of their head when trying to latch so their instinct kicks ins to push back away as a defense mechanism to prevent suffocation, so you have to hold base of skull, or prop their head on your arm and bring their whole body to the breast--but too many times of pushing them into the breast from the back of their head can teach them that when the breast comes at them, push away.

This. One of the nurses repositioned my hand to go behind her head, essentially pushing her into my boob and forcing her to latch. Even though it didn't feel right to me, as a FTM... I am relied heavily on whatever knowledge came at me during those days and I trusted her expertise. I felt so bad pushing it in her face. I can't imagine that's the best feeding experience... watching this massive boob come towards your face, smothering you until you cry loud enough for it to back off.

Thank you for all the amazing information. I definitely feel like I've been on the right track... it's just going to take a lot more patience.

I'm so excited to say we got her to latch today with the shield... *twice*. I gave it another shot (I didn't like it before because she was rejecting it and I felt like she didn't really want to connect with me, just something like the bottle) and it worked! She stayed on for like 20 minutes between the two sides. I felt like jumping for joy after the feeding. It was the greatest feeling in the world. I know it's not the end of our struggle but it's comforting knowing there's hope.

ashie0610 · October 2014

savagek7 said:

Cantisa said:
When for example Kellymom states that a growth spurt is 3-6 weeks does that mean it occurs around that time or for ALL of those weeks?
I believe it's around that time, since it's different for each baby. What I've read says growth spurts usually last a few days to a week.

Yes, and I remember with DS1 that I was able to tell it was over by him having a very sleepy day following a couple of very hungry days.

ashie0610 · October 2014

My overthinking is starting again and could use some reassurance.. DS was over birthweight by almost a pound at his two week checkup. I see a lot of people going back at one month. They said we don't come back until two months though.

He's still eating frequently but only for 10 minutes max on one side. If he's still having good diaper output, I should just assume he's getting enough right?

He's averaging about 10 wet and 3-5 good poops per day. I'm just getting nervous because I have no convenient way to know his current weight for another month.

ashie0610 · October 2014

Cantisa said:

ashie0610 said:
My overthinking is starting again and could use some reassurance.. DS was over birthweight by almost a pound at his two week checkup. I see a lot of people going back at one month. They said we don't come back until two months though.

He's still eating frequently but only for 10 minutes max on one side. If he's still having good diaper output, I should just assume he's getting enough right?

He's averaging about 10 wet and 3-5 good poops per day. I'm just getting nervous because I have no convenient way to know his current weight for another month.
Are there any breastfeeding groups in your area? That's where I went to get LO weighed for free!

There are. It's a bit of a hike though, about 30 minutes each way. I may do it if I can't stop worrying though!

Saragoeswest · October 2014

Even though I haven't posted any questions in here, I read everything and am so grateful for this thread. Thank you to everyone who chips in their good advice and experience, especially @AmyG*‌ , @Emerald27‌ and @theresat858‌.

"Finish the first side first" is FINALLY starting to click.

haboobjob · October 2014

ashie0610 said:

I'm just getting nervous because I have no convenient way to know his current weight for another month.

One of the LC I worked with in the hospital recommended I check with my pediatrician because usually they'll let you pop in and weigh the baby between check ups. I don't know how true that is but might be worth it to look into if you're concerned.

shannonshare · October 2014

theresat858 said:

Cantisa said:
When for example Kellymom states that a growth spurt is 3-6 weeks does that mean it occurs around that time or for ALL of those weeks?
For us it seems to be a day or two pf growth spurt behavior (constant nursing), a couple of days of more spaced out feedings, and now more growth spurt behavior.

Same! Sunday and Monday were HEAVY feed days then it tapered off on Tuesday so I thought we were done. Nope! Wednesday was an even heavier feed day (5 1/2 hours!)...wondering what today will bring.

ashie0610 · October 2014

savagek7 said:

justaudrey said:

ashie0610 said:

I'm just getting nervous because I have no convenient way to know his current weight for another month.

One of the LC I worked with in the hospital recommended I check with my pediatrician because usually they'll let you pop in and weigh the baby between check ups. I don't know how true that is but might be worth it to look into if you're concerned.

Or, if you have a scale you trust at home, take your weight then hop on with the baby, and the difference is baby's weight. I think every 0.1 lb would be 1.6 oz.

Thanks ladies. I could try the home scale just for peace of mind I suppose.

My pedi must not be that great because they charge a copay for a weight check.

ashie0610 · October 2014

AmyG* said:
Yea if your dr office charges you to come in for just a weight check that sucks.
don't do the hop on the scale thing It's not accurate enough to tell you if baby gained 1/2-1oz a day, cause that's only 4-7 oz a week, which isn't going to show on the scale and you might freak out.
some babies r us have scales you can borrow. heck I know peeople that weighed baby at the post office self serve scale and in the produce dept. lol.

Ha! I will keep this in mind next time we go to the grocery store!

Emerald27 · October 2014

@ashie0610‌ If weighing baby will give you peace of mind, then definitely look for a way to do it. You could also call and just schedule a 4 week checkup anyway since they're standard and you would feel better.

But like PP said, if diaper output is good and he's a happy baby, you can relax. Your body's got this motherhood thing!

My pedi is having us come back at 8 weeks too instead of 4 weeks.

JessAnnJ · October 2014

After BF the portion of my nipple where the bottom of her mouth hits is a little flattened and I'm wondering if that is normal. I know that my nipple looking like a pancake with a white crease down the middle was not normal, but I don't know if some flattening is. We saw an OT who gave us some exercises regarding increasing the side rotation of her tongue and lengthening her tongue earlier this week and then today we saw a pediatric ENT that clipped her tongue and lip tie. After nursing today I still noticed some flattening and I guess that made me wonder if I still have a latch issue. We saw a lactation consultant in the hospital and have had two outpatient consults so I'm at a loss if we are still having latch issues. DD2 will be three weeks tomorrow, but she has only spent a little time at the breast due to my nipple pain. She mostly received pumped milk by bottle. So only about 1-4 times per day. We start with the shield to minimize my pain and then after let down and nursing for a couple minutes I take off the shield. So I don't know if she just needs more practice. The most recent nursing session where I still saw some flattening on the bottom she was nursed in the cross cradle hold for 20 min on one side. She refused the other. Just those thought I would add as many details as possible in case it matters. Thanks ladies.

cmac6186 · October 2014

DDS had her tongue tie clipped yesterday. Her latch doesn't feel much different but I am noticing it seems harder for her to actually get latched on- taking longer, falling off the nipple. Has this happened for anyone else? I'm wondering if it's a result of her getting used to being able to move her tongue around more.

Emerald27 · October 2014

@JessAnnJ‌ The "lipstick" shaped nipple after nursing does often indicate a shallow latch. She probably just needs a bit more practice, and as her tongue gets more and more freedom of movement, it will likely improve. Keep encouraging her to open very wide before she latches, and maybe even try some laid-back breastfeeding.

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction!

ETA: I just reread and saw that her ties were clipped TODAY. Revising the ties will make an enormous difference, but it's not immediate. It takes several days to a week for baby to get used to the new freedom of movement in her mouth and to re-learn how to latch.

Think of it like a marathon runner training for a race with her shoes tied together. She takes really short steps as she runs so that she doesn't fall over. If on the day of the race, her trainer unties her shoes so that they're not tied together, will she run with a long, proper stride? Nope - her muscles have trained with short steps, so it will take her some time to become used to her new freedom of movement. Her muscles will have to stretch and lengthen. She'll kind of have to learn how to run all over again.

Same with a tongue-tied baby. Takes time for them to learn, almost like a newborb starting over. So hang in there. It sounds better already than it was if you're just seeing the lipstick shape and before you were getting a compression line. Good luck!

Emerald27 · October 2014

cmac6186 said:
DDS had her tongue tie clipped yesterday. Her latch doesn't feel much different but I am noticing it seems harder for her to actually get latched on- taking longer, falling off the nipple. Has this happened for anyone else? I'm wondering if it's a result of her getting used to being able to move her tongue around more.

It could be. See my response to Jess above. Takes some time for them to get used to their new freedom of movement. Encourage her to open wide and help her latch on as best you can. And maybe try laid-back breastfeeding, in which gravity helps baby latch on. Patience and persistence - she'll get there.

Good luck!

Emerald27 · October 2014

@keelyd‌ That sounds like a good plan! And sounds like things are improving.

FX that DS becomes more efficient every day!

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