Breastfeeding Links & Talk

irisheyes317 · October 2014

Any tips on how to recover breastfeeding successfully after a NICU stay? I felt like LO and I were just beginning to establish some good habits and her latch was getting pretty good.

But last night LO was sent up to the NICU for low blood glucose levels. The good news is that she should recover easily with some supplementation and close monitoring for a few days. But the bad news is that they're bottle feeding her formula and offering pacis up in the NICU. Also we are losing out on skin to skin time. I'm trying to keep up with pumping every 3 hours while she's away and feeding and holding her in the NICU when I can.

Any other tips on how to set us for success once she can get out? Or how I can continue to take steps to encourage my milk to come in even when I'm separated from LO?

MuffinMom14 · October 2014

Is there anything at all I can do to get my milk to come in? I'm in a high stress environment, I've slept 7 hours now in the last 78 hours, she won't feed without the shield, and when she does, she gives 10 sucks and either goes to sleep or screams.

I'm not bonding with this baby. She just screams in my arms and I can't do skin to skin because I'm bound and can't sit in any position to really do it.

I'm forcing her to stay and scream/suck on each side for 15 minutes every three hours. Then my husband gives her formula while I pump for 20 minutes each side (nothing at all comes of this but the nurses say to do it).

Saragoeswest · October 2014

@SPurp13‌ I'm not an expert but as a natural way of getting milk to come in I applied Clary Sage essential oil to the boobs.

MuffinMom14 · October 2014

Saragoeswest said:
@SPurp13‌ I'm not an expert but as a natural way of getting milk to come in I applied Clary Sage essential oil to the boobs.

I'll look to see if I can find it on amazon. Thanks!

Emerald27 · October 2014

@irisheyes317‌ ((hugs)) Skin-to-skin as often as possible and frequent nursing should do the trick. Plan to just snuggle snuggle snuggle and nurse nurse nurse once she is back. Pump frequently if you're not nursing, and spend as much time with LO as you can. It will be ok.

MuffinMom14 · October 2014

@starla487‌ I wasn't allowed to eat or drink for a while. I started eating and drinking normally today.

Emerald27 · October 2014

@SPurp13‌ What position are you stuck in? You might be able to ask for help getting skin to skin, even if it involves unconventional positioning. If you're shirtless and she is just in a diaper when you nurse, she's getting lots of skin to skin then! See if maybe she can sleep high on your chest between your breasts if your incision is too painful for her to rest lower on your abdomen. Or if you're laying down and can lay on your side, see if she can be positioned alongside you.

If she wears a hat, take it off and smell her head. Kiss her head and her cheeks, find some way to rest her against your skin, and repeat. Smelling baby's head and finding a way to have her against your skin will both help with bonding and will help bring your milk in.

It's not uncommon after a cesarean delivery or traumatic birth for it to take a week for your milk to mature. But that doesn't mean that you don't have any milk - you have colostrum, and transitional milk, and she is benefitting from every second that she is at the breast. Make sure you're eating and drinking enough too.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things. I'm so sorry you're having such a difficult time! Please feel free to PM me with any questions you have or if you need some support.

MuffinMom14 · October 2014

Emerald27 said:
@SPurp13‌ What position are you stuck in? You might be able to ask for help getting skin to skin, even if it involves unconventional positioning. If you're shirtless and she is just in a diaper when you nurse, she's getting lots of skin to skin then! See if maybe she can sleep high on your chest between your breasts if your incision is too painful for her to rest lower on your abdomen. Or if you're laying down and can lay on your side, see if she can be positioned alongside you.

If she wears a hat, take it off and smell her head. Kiss her head and her cheeks, find some way to rest her against your skin, and repeat. Smelling baby's head and finding a way to have her against your skin will both help with bonding and will help bring your milk in.

It's not uncommon after a cesarean delivery or traumatic birth for it to take a week for your milk to mature. But that doesn't mean that you don't have any milk - you have colostrum, and transitional milk, and she is benefitting from every second that she is at the breast. Make sure you're eating and drinking enough too.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things. I'm so sorry you're having such a difficult time! Please feel free to PM me with any questions you have or if you need some support.

Ask for help? The nurses stopped coming in after I got upset when they said I was starving my baby. I haven't had pain meds in a while because of it.

Emerald27 · October 2014

@cantisa LO doesn't need a full feeding in a bottle in order to learn how to use it. Even just half an ounce a few times a week can be enough. Base how frequently you offer a bottle and how much you put in it on how quickly/easily she learns.

Offer the bottle when she's not very hungry (it's hard to learn something new when you're ravenous), and try using paced bottle feeding, which most closely resembles breastfeeding. You can google "paced bottle feeding" or see the links I posted one page back on this thread.

@SPurp13‌ I just saw your comments in the Randoms thread. I'm so angry for you!!! No mother deserves to be treated like you've been - ever! You are NOT starving your baby. Is there an LC there that you can work with? You can also ask DH to look up the name/number of a local LLL Leader and call her to ask for help. Leaders do home visits and are great sources of information and support. Sounds like you could use lots of good support right now! >:D<

irisheyes317 · October 2014

@starla487‌ ((hugs)). I hope you can avoid the NICU but if not, your LO will be in good hands. They would definitely allow me to offer pumped milk while she's in there, so if you're able to pump I imagine you could definitely still offer it to baby. They said they would offer it before the formula at each feeding too. My milk still hasn't come in yet so I haven't been able to make it work for me. I'm not getting enough colostrum through pumping to be able to save any of it. Good luck!

Emerald27 · October 2014

savagek7 said:
My left side seems to have much more milk than the right, based on the fact that the last two pumpings, I got 1/2 oz from the right and 2 oz from the left. What can I do to increase supply on the right?

It's pretty common to have one underachiever boob and one overachiever boob. You can nurse more on that side, or pump once more for a few minutes on that side. Or you can just not worry about it. Your supply may even itself out as time goes by. Just make sure you're not favoring the left side when you nurse.

irisheyes317 · October 2014

@SPurp13‌ hugs to you! I have been too out of it with everything going on to see exactly what happened but I'm sorry you're dealing with bitchy nurses. While I have been lucky to have mostly great nurses, I happened to have the worst one on duty when LO started to develop glucose issues. She somehow communicated that as me starving LO and I was sobbing for hours. Is there anyone else you could talk to? My H had the presence of mind to ask to talk to the pediatrician directly and it really helped get the message across more clearly. Know that you are most definitely not starving your baby.

Also, I agree on staying on top of your meds! Have H call the charge nurse if you need to. (Side note, the same bitchy nurse who made me cry about starving LO also tried to imply I was being wimpy by still taking Percocet at 48 hours after c-section. Her opinion was equally ridiculous in both cases).

golfingdarwinfish · October 2014

Emerald27 said:

Emerald27 said:

I GOT TWO DROPS OF MILK FROM MY RIGHT BREAST!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope this is a good sign?!!!?

I JUST got the hospital grade pump, so it was over 24 hours since I last tried, which I know absolutely sucks. I am going to increase our skin-to-skin time (it was basically non existent), pump every 3 hours when he feeds to continue momentum, and increase my water intake.

Is there anything else I can do?
Yayyyyy!!!!!! Milk!!!!!! Sounds like what you're doing is perfect. Make sure you're getting enough calories too. During the day, you can pump more frequently than every 3 hours, if you like. Skin to skin is perfect; you can also hold baby skin to skin while you pump, or put baby to the breast if possible and pump the other side. I'm so so happy for you! Keep up the good work!

@emerald27 thanks for the reminder re: food - I haven't been hungry at all! We did a bit of skin to skin, and when he realized where he was he started opening his mouth wide and seeking out the nipple. I feel so bad because he clearly knows his role and my breasts just don't want to cooperate!!
Has he had any more luck latching well?

@emerald27

I met with another LC and his pedi and we have decided to stop forcing the latching, but he's encouraged to keep trying and spend time at the breast. He arrived 4 days ago and I still can't get more than a few drops out of each breast, so the goal is really just something is better than nothing.

It's a bit upsetting to have to give all formula so quickly, but he's eating and gaining, and that's all that matters.

sabby2 · October 2014

*sigh* After doing so well yesterday DD regressed and wouldn't eat all night without the shield. Also, I'm pretty sure I have over supply and she only eats on one side and won't take the other. The result even after hand expression leaves me super engorged by the next feeding and she won't latch. When I tried to make the nipple sandwich I literally sprayed milk all over her face.

I'm so frustrated because yesterday went so well and we did 4 entire feedings without the nipple shield.

JessAnnJ · October 2014

I'm sorry if I missed this in the thread, but does anyone have any good links to videos showing latching a newborn? I'm mostly pumping but still putting her to the breast several times a day. I can't seem to get a deep latch. Her bottom lip is always stuck in and she likes to pull back with my nipple in her mouth. It's excruciating which is why I am mostly pumping. I dread feeding her. We have an outpatient consultation with a LC tomorrow and we saw them twice in the hospital.

So far laid back nursing seems to work best but she doesn't seem super comfortable. The videos I have found show babies slowly and perfectly opening their mouth wide and latching on not the crazy frantic chomping that I am faced with.

Emerald27 · October 2014

@JessAnnJ‌ I'll see what I can find, and will post some links in a bit. It's almost the boys' naptime. \:D/

Emerald27 · October 2014

@sabby2‌ This technique, called "reverse pressure softening," may help LO latch when you're engorged:

https://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mother/rev_pressure_soft_cotterman/

https://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=doc-EngRPS

irisheyes317 · October 2014

AmyG* said:

irisheyes317 said:
Any tips on how to recover breastfeeding successfully after a NICU stay? I felt like LO and I were just beginning to establish some good habits and her latch was getting pretty good.

But last night LO was sent up to the NICU for low blood glucose levels. The good news is that she should recover easily with some supplementation and close monitoring for a few days. But the bad news is that they're bottle feeding her formula and offering pacis up in the NICU. Also we are losing out on skin to skin time. I'm trying to keep up with pumping every 3 hours while she's away and feeding and holding her in the NICU when I can.

Any other tips on how to set us for success once she can get out? Or how I can continue to take steps to encourage my milk to come in even when I'm separated from LO?
She's still your baby even though she's in nicu. So u can tell them to limit pacifier use. They may not want to but too bad.
Pump as often as you can for the next day. Every two to three hours aiming closer to two as long as you can stand it. Hand express colostrum which stabilizes blood sugar faster and ask that anything you can pump. E given first. Actually depending on your situation you should be able to go up to the nicu and nurse baby and give anything you collected yourself and then top off with bottle. Sometimes they overreact for blood sugar issues. Baby's blood sugar should only be checked after a nursing session for instance and if it's low helping mom to get more milk into baby should be the first step. Of course I don't have the info on how very low or your full medical history if anything.

As often as you can hold and touch baby the skin to skin increases prolactin level which helps milk supply. It's hard to get with baby on in in u but as long as blood sugar is stable you should be able to hold her as much as possible.

---
Thanks! This is really helpful. They were actually good about letting me try to raise it on my own for a while before sending her up there. In case this helps anyone else in the same situation, I was able to nurse about 5 more times in a row and had a LC watching me to confirm good latching. They also let me do a few cup feeds (to avoid nipple confusion) of formula in the room to see if that would raise her sugars before they had to send her up. It did help me see the necessity of sending her up there, and I felt better that it wasn't my fault for not producing enough milk yet when the formula didn't affect them either.

I've been able to go nurse her before feedings in the NICU and they're letting me give her the bottle too. They're a little touchy about too much skin to skin because they're really worried about keeping the babies warm up there, but I've been putting her cheek against my chest. She's making great progress and I hope she'll be able to come home soon.

I did decide to go ahead and use the NICU as the "most expensive babysitters in the world" for the overnight feeds and I think it is the right choice for me. The birth experience was pretty tough for both me and baby, and I know I lost a ton of blood in the emergency c section, so I think it made sense to try to build up my strength as well. I'm pumping overnight when LO is scheduled to eat in the NICU but I haven't been going up to feed her then.

Emerald27 · October 2014

beezbeez said:
Going to see Dr Newman tomorrow morning and have her tongue tie looked at.

THE Dr. Newman? As in Dr. Jack Newman??

Emerald27 · October 2014

beezbeez said:

Emerald27 said:

beezbeez said:
Going to see Dr Newman tomorrow morning and have her tongue tie looked at.
THE Dr. Newman? As in Dr. Jack Newman??
Yup! I am lucky enough to live in the same city as his clinic.

That is extremely cool. I'm super jealous. 8->

irisheyes317 · October 2014

Thanks so much @AmyG*‌ !!

Emerald27 · October 2014

keelyd said:
Should I always be able to hear the "cuh" sound when DS is feeding? It seems like frequently I can see and feel him sucking, but I don't always hear him swallowing. He's pooping and peeing plenty, but his weight was a mild concern at the pedi yesterday.

Some moms hear the "cuh" sound throughout every feeding. Others only hear it at the beginning of each letdown. Or some don't hear it at all. It's a reassuring sound, though, isn't it?

But its absence doesn't indicate that baby isn't getting enough. Just like you suggested, watching disper output and weight gain is your best bet for knowing whether LO is getting enough milk.

LightBright515 · October 2014

I'm pumping to help my poor nipples, and this is day 2 of blood getting in my milk! Luckily I've caught it early on, but what do you do when your pumped milk gets blood in it?

Emerald27 · October 2014

@alfibet Here is some excellent, reliable information regarding alcohol consumption and breastfeeding. Hopefully it can help you make a decision you're confident in and comfortable with:

https://www.llli.org/faq/alcohol.html

Emerald27 · October 2014

keelyd said:
Is it normal for a baby to feed more after stress (like a long/tough Dr appt)? DS has been on and off for more than an hour.

Absolutely! He needs his mama.

Breastfeeding isn't just about the milk. It's love and comfort too!

Skin to skin can be especially comforting too, so enjoy some snuggles while he nurses.

imagine7696030614 · October 2014

Took the baby to the Dr. Today to check weight and look into how sleepy she's been. I told the dr. That I can hardly wake her for Feedings etc. But of course, Isla was pretty alert at the office. Regardless, she did gain a couple of ounces since Friday but is still not up to her birthweight at 18 days old so dr. Wants us to take her to the emergency room for blood work and evaluation.

Really hoping everything is okay.Dr. Says she just wants to rule things out. I did make an appointment to see a LC for Wednesday. I just want her to eat...can't take this anymore. At 2 am I spent 45 minutes trying to waker up...naked, tickles, blowing on face, wash cloth...just get a couple of sucks then back to sleep.is anyone else having THIS much trouble nursing their babies?

JessAnnJ · October 2014

@AmyG*‌ thank you for your comments and suggestions. The lactation consultant at the hospital suggested she might have a short frenulum given my nipple trauma and suggested we should mention it to our pediatrician. I'm my opinion the pediatrician seemed to kind of just blow that off when we mentioned it. I saw a lactation consultant for an outpatient visit today and she gave us the name of an ENT that is very experienced with these issues so we will go have it checked next Thursday which was his earliest appointment. She took one look at my nipples, which I thought looked better, and basically said that they looked really bad and she didn't recommend trying to latch without the shield. She helped me figure out how to use it and that lowered my pain level tremendously. Unfortunately, after the weighed feeding DD only got about a half an ounce after what appeared to be vigorous sucking on both sides. We were all pretty shocked that she got so little. I see my OB tomorrow to have her look at my nipples and maybe prescribe the super expensive Dr Newman's nipple cream or something for a yeast infection. My nipples get itchy and I also have some marks that suggest that as a possibility. Also it looks like I have issues with vasospasm because when exposed to cold air I get pain in my nipples and my veins kind of stand up for a few seconds before they relax and the pain goes away. So basically I seem to have several issues going on. It's hard to believe that something that is supposed to be so "natural" is so complicated. With my older daughter I switched to EPing after a month but I'm hoping to make BF work this time around. ETA - the lactation consultant had a luna lullaby nursing pillow and I loved it for anyone reading this that has not bought one yet. I like it a lot more than my my breast friend or my boppy.

LightBright515 · October 2014

Saw a consultant today, and she was shocked at how bad my nipples had gotten. Mind you, these nipples were nursed back to health by me for the past week. She has NO idea where these babies started off at!

She made me an all natural nipple butter at the office, gave me a WAY better shield, and confirmed my suspicions about DD having a tongue tie. The LC at the hospital said she didn't have one......

All in all, I'm pleased after today. Tongue getting clipped on Wednesday at her 1 week appointment. My milk is still in transition, but plentiful.

Pumping at work will be my reality soon, but I'm glad that I'm able to just throw her on the boob for now.

Emerald27 · October 2014

@keelyd‌ ((hugs)) FX for you that the LC has some great info and recommendations to share, and that LO starts gaining fast!

sabby2 · October 2014

I seem to get the most engorged over might when dd goes longer stretches between eating. Anything I can do to help that? I don't really want to get up every hour or two to feed her.

LightBright515 · October 2014

How long is a typical feeding session for you all?

ashie0610 · October 2014

I keep getting plugged ducts as my supply starts to adjust down, particularly on my left side (the side that was infected with mastitis last week). LO only takes one side per feeding so I've been massaging and hand expressing when I need to but I still cannot get this one plug out. Any tricks to breaking up stubborn ones?

rosalie12 · October 2014

@LightBright515‌ I'd say an average feeding session for us is 30 minutes, about 15 min on each breast. Although at night I've been feeding her pretty much continuously from about 12-3am. Not sure how much she is actually even getting with such frequent feelings during that time.

cmac6186 · October 2014

rosalie12 said:
@LightBright515‌ I'd say an average feeding session for us is 30 minutes, about 15 min on each breast. Although at night I've been feeding her pretty much continuously from about 12-3am. Not sure how much she is actually even getting with such frequent feelings during that time.

This. We feed both sides then I put her down for 15-20min. Repeat. All. Night. Long. Granted she's only 4 days old. But I'm wondering if she's working really hard for not much reward

Emerald27 · October 2014

LightBright515 said:
How long is a typical feeding session for you all?

I nurse on demand and don't really watch the clock, but I think DS spends an average of 10-15 minutes on each breast. It's not uncommon for a newborn feeding to last 30-40 minutes. Some babies, though, are very efficient nursers and can fill up very quickly. And of course as they grow they become very efficient and fast.

The recommendation used to be to try for a "good feeding," or at least 20 minutes at the breast, every 2-3 hours and nurse on demand in between. That recommendation is fine, but it can be easier on mom just to watch her baby and feed him when he's hungry. If baby is happy, alert, and not showing hunger signs, and if diaper output and weight gain are good, then you know that LO is getting enough.

LightBright515 · October 2014

crawford411 said:

@LightBright515‌ We do about 15-20 minutes on one side, then I offer the other after a burp and diaper change. She usually doesn't take it, but sometimes she does. When I went to the LC, they did a weighed feed and found out that she is getting over 2 oz from the one breast in those 15 to 20 minutes, so she's filling herself up! Can you meet an LC to ensure she is getting enough to gain weight?

I saw one! I just forgot to see how much milk she was transferring over. I'm going tomorrow, so I plan to ask a bit more..

Emerald27 · October 2014

savagek7 said:
Foods to generally avoid when BFing. Ready, go!

Unless baby is showing signs of a sensitivity to something in your diet, there's no reason to avoid any kind of food completely. Like Amy said, eating a balanced diet is healthiest for both you and baby.

Two foods to avoid in excess are peppermint oil and sage, both of which can reduce milk supply. A small amount in a dish is no big deal, but if you eat enough of it, you might notice a drop. Some mothers are more sensitive than others, so just keep an eye on your supply after consuming these.

MuffinMom14 · October 2014

Ok, if anyone has any ideas, I'm about ready to quit. (Can you tag me in a reply, too, so I can find it easier? Between crying and feeding, I'm lucky to get 2 hours of sleep once a day.)

We were advised to stop the formula Monday by both the pedi and the LC. So, we did.

However, I just don't feel like she's getting enough from me. I don't think we'll meet the wet/dirty diaper requirement when 5pm rolls around today, for one thing. For another, she never seems satisfied when we stop. She cries, and we have to console her to sleep. She does sleep soundly and doesn't wake up (someone told me THAT must mean she's not hungry, then, but I'm confused, because the same person said that she should be content at the end of the feeding).

Breastfeeding is difficult. She screams, unlatches, latches for a minutes, screams, comes off. On and On and On. Our feeds can last an hour, and I never feel empty and she never seems satisfied.

I can commit to doing this hour-long feeding thing for a few days, but after that, at what point do I just admit that I'm not making enough for her? This is not a positive experience for either of us at this point.

She also will not latch without a shield, but that's the least of my worries at this point.

Schedules right now looks like this:

Wake her up, feed as long as we can stand it on the right, feed on the left, console to sleep while I pump, since I never feel empty, she sleeps until the 3-hour mark, we have to force her awake again to repeat. she's never, never happy at the breast.

sabby2 · October 2014

@SPurp13 My DD sometimes acts like that too. I can usually tell if she's not hungry if she'll take a pacifier and calm down. I don't know if that's a good idea or not but the LC I saw didn't seem concerned by it.

I still use a nipple shield sometimes too because DD gets really frustrated at times and will not latch without it.

I still usually have to wake her up for feedings too and she screams bloody murder at us. I'm not really sure how to get around that one since she needs to eat. I just try and calm her as much as I can before trying to feed her.

I don't have much advice about the schedule. Is there any chance you could work with the LC again? Have you pumped to see how much milk you're producing?

hgielrebmik · October 2014

@SPurp13‌ I'm so sorry you are having so many struggles from the start. It sounds like you are stressed and tense. I want to encourage you to try and find a way to relax, however you can. Babies can tell when you are stressed or tense and it can cause them to tense up also. Also, your letdown will happen easier when you relax. Also, don't be scared to try a pacifier if you think LO just wants to suck. You are doing a great job and it will get better!

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