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UO

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Re: UO

  • dana2die4dana2die4 member
    golfingdarwinfish said:
    I don't think you'll get this because you're so biased, but the fact that a cop can shoot and kill someone in cold blood, and get away with it, just because he felt threatened, is an incredibly scary proposition for many people. The fact that the killing can be justified just be a few words from the officer gives them an incredible amount of power. When individuals have that much power, their behaviors should be scrutinized, and when someone ends up dead, whether they be an officer or a merely a citizen, there should be intense scrutiny applied to the situation. Your eta about it being justifiable to kill unarmed individuals makes many people want to hide. You may be boasting about it from your privileged position of being married to an officer, but for many, it's terrifying.
    Are you kidding me? So you think if my husband conducts a routine traffic stop or goes to a domestic violence call, and a suspect pulls a gun on him or acts as if he has a weapon that would harm him, he is just supposed to stand there and twiddle his thumbs??? Not all cops are bad cops and not all cops abuse their authority, there are bad seeds in EVERY profession. 

    And you think I live a privileged life because I am married to a police officer, now that sweetie, is one of the most IGNORANT things I have ever heard! 


     


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  • dana2die4dana2die4 member
    edited August 2014
    dana2die4 said:

    MrsSarahRenee said:
    And just so you also know where I am coming from; I am married to a police officer who has been in an "officer involved shooting" and who was under the scrutiny from the general public. We all knew he was justified in his shoot, however, reading people's, yes I will say it again "uneducated, hurtful, and ignorant" comments were enough to drive any one bat shit crazy, especially when you know the facts and they don't. Have some compassion for the officer and his family, because little do you know, he could have been completely justified and was scared for HIS life. Think how him and his family feel right now? I'm not saying he is innocent, but people should hold their nasty opinions until the investigation is final. 

    Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying. 
    Yeah I kind of recognized your bias as an officer's wife from your tone. I think you personalized this situation though. I don't know what happened to your husband but I am not sure the same parallels would apply if you consider what we have said about why we (or people in general) are questioning/confused/angry... Media spins officer shootings making the officer look like the bad guy. I get that that happens. In this case, there is MORE to the issue than this individual cop. That is where I am coming from. ETA: "Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying." I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. It might not mean EVERYTHING but it has a lot of weight... You even call him a kid in this. This makes you sound like a total bitch. IMHO.
    Just because he was unarmed doesn't mean he wasn't a threat to the officer's life. There have been two "officer involved" shootings here where the suspects staged it to look as if they had a weapon in their pocket, when in fact they didn't. 

    This doesn't even make sense. Pretending you have a weapon doesn't make you a threat to an officer. The officer may think he was in danger, but he wasn't. I think we could sit here all night and make reasonable, sensible arguments against your POV, but it won't change your mind. Your statements have made it clear that you have drawn your conclusions, based on your status as an officer's wife, and yet you don't think that other people who know just as much about the situation should be allowed to do the same.
    Okay, so dispatch calls officers out to a suspect with a "possible weapon" who just robbed a lady on the street. Mind you its 12am, so its dark. The police make contact with the suspect and he has his hand in his pocket and he's holding something that resembles a gun or knife, but won't cooperate nor respond to officers if he has a weapon or not. The suspect then whips out whatever he had in his hand and points it at the officers, you are telling me, if you were in the officers position, you would just stand there???

    The suspect ended up having an extra large snickers bar wrapped in a black baggy, and he was shot and killed. 


     


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  • Emerald27Emerald27 member
    edited August 2014
    dana2die4 said:

    dana2die4 said:


    MrsSarahRenee said:

    dana2die4 said:

    And just so you also know where I am coming from; I am married to a police officer who has been in an "officer involved shooting" and who was under the scrutiny from the general public. We all knew he was justified in his shoot, however, reading people's, yes I will say it again "uneducated, hurtful, and ignorant" comments were enough to drive any one bat shit crazy, especially when you know the facts and they don't. Have some compassion for the officer and his family, because little do you know, he could have been completely justified and was scared for HIS life. Think how him and his family feel right now? I'm not saying he is innocent, but people should hold their nasty opinions until the investigation is final. 


    Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying. 

    Yeah I kind of recognized your bias as an officer's wife from your tone.
    I think you personalized this situation though. I don't know what happened to your husband but I am not sure the same parallels would apply if you consider what we have said about why we (or people in general) are questioning/confused/angry...

    Media spins officer shootings making the officer look like the bad guy. I get that that happens. In this case, there is MORE to the issue than this individual cop. That is where I am coming from.

    ETA: "Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying."

    I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. It might not mean EVERYTHING but it has a lot of weight... You even call him a kid in this. This makes you sound like a total bitch. IMHO.

    Just because he was unarmed doesn't mean he wasn't a threat to the officer's life. There have been two "officer involved" shootings here where the suspects staged it to look as if they had a weapon in their pocket, when in fact they didn't. 



    This doesn't even make sense. Pretending you have a weapon doesn't make you a threat to an officer. The officer may think he was in danger, but he wasn't. I think we could sit here all night and make reasonable, sensible arguments against your POV, but it won't change your mind. Your statements have made it clear that you have drawn your conclusions, based on your status as an officer's wife, and yet you don't think that other people who know just as much about the situation should be allowed to do the same.


    Okay, so dispatch calls officers out to a suspect with a "possible weapon" who just robbed a lady on the street. Mind you its 12am, so its dark. The police make contact with the suspect and he has his hand in his pocket and he's holding something that resembles a gun or knife, but won't cooperate nor respond to officers if he has a weapon or not. The suspect then whips out whatever he had in his hand and points it at the officers, you are telling me, if you were in the officers position, you would just stand there???

    The suspect ended up having an extra large snickers bar wrapped in a black baggy, and he was shot and killed. 


    --------------------
    I'm not sure it's possible for anyone who wasn't there or trained or what not to say what they absolutely would have done in such a difficult situation. There are SO MANY factors that are unknowns. However, it's possible to think that an officer might (keeping in mind that we don't have all the facts) 1. attempt to disarm the suspect, 2. take steps to protect himself from the suspect (step behind something like a car door or wall, for example), 3. shoot as a last resort with the intent of disarming or injuring the suspect but not killing him.

    Again, I don't know. I'm not a cop. But there are too many variables and you're way way way too emotionally wrapped up in this argument to step back and approach the discussion objectively.

    ETA: quote fail and posted too soon.
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  • dana2die4dana2die4 member
    MrsCunningham22 said:
    @dana2die4‌ I understand your frustration because you are seeing things from your DHs side and that can make it difficult for you too see the other side of the coin.
    But I have to say, your husband chose his profession eyes open and being a public servant brings a very big responsibility. No one is here saying that you DH is a bad cop. What we are sating is as public servants, cops need to understand that when a life is ended, scrutiny will follow. The Brown's family asked for answers and at the beginning non were given. How would you feel if your DH (God forbid) was killed in the line of duty and no one offered you answers?
    My DH just said to me, " your bumpie's husband chose his profession which is not an easy one at all. I did not chose the color of my skin; no matter how I dress, my profession, where I live or what car I drive (or don't drive) there will always be people that will cross the street in order not to have to walk on my side of the road"

    Some of those people are cops and armed and therefore have the power to take that mental prejudice a bit farther than others. And that to me is scary.
    I completely understand the family wanting answers, autopsies, investigations, ect…..that wasn't my UO. My UO is people who make ignorant comments towards the police when they don't know all the facts and I was just using my DH's situation as an example. 


     


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  • dana2die4dana2die4 member

    MonstoMommy said:
    dana2die4 said:
    dana2die4 said:

    MrsSarahRenee said:
    And just so you also know where I am coming from; I am married to a police officer who has been in an "officer involved shooting" and who was under the scrutiny from the general public. We all knew he was justified in his shoot, however, reading people's, yes I will say it again "uneducated, hurtful, and ignorant" comments were enough to drive any one bat shit crazy, especially when you know the facts and they don't. Have some compassion for the officer and his family, because little do you know, he could have been completely justified and was scared for HIS life. Think how him and his family feel right now? I'm not saying he is innocent, but people should hold their nasty opinions until the investigation is final. 

    Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying. 
    Yeah I kind of recognized your bias as an officer's wife from your tone. I think you personalized this situation though. I don't know what happened to your husband but I am not sure the same parallels would apply if you consider what we have said about why we (or people in general) are questioning/confused/angry... Media spins officer shootings making the officer look like the bad guy. I get that that happens. In this case, there is MORE to the issue than this individual cop. That is where I am coming from. ETA: "Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying." I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. It might not mean EVERYTHING but it has a lot of weight... You even call him a kid in this. This makes you sound like a total bitch. IMHO.
    Just because he was unarmed doesn't mean he wasn't a threat to the officer's life. There have been two "officer involved" shootings here where the suspects staged it to look as if they had a weapon in their pocket, when in fact they didn't. 

    This doesn't even make sense. Pretending you have a weapon doesn't make you a threat to an officer. The officer may think he was in danger, but he wasn't. I think we could sit here all night and make reasonable, sensible arguments against your POV, but it won't change your mind. Your statements have made it clear that you have drawn your conclusions, based on your status as an officer's wife, and yet you don't think that other people who know just as much about the situation should be allowed to do the same.
    Okay, so dispatch calls officers out to a suspect with a "possible weapon" who just robbed a lady on the street. Mind you its 12am, so its dark. The police make contact with the suspect and he has his hand in his pocket and he's holding something that resembles a gun or knife, but won't cooperate nor respond to officers if he has a weapon or not. The suspect then whips out whatever he had in his hand and points it at the officers, you are telling me, if you were in the officers position, you would just stand there???

    The suspect ended up having an extra large snickers bar wrapped in a black baggy, and he was shot and killed. 

    That's not what you said in your last post. You said: just because he was unarmed doesn't mean he wasn't a threat. That is exactly what it means. The officer may perceive a threat, but here isn't an actual threat. Even in your example, the suspect is not a threat to the officer. Again, the officer may think so, but the officer is wrong. And in your example, no I would not shoot the man holding the candy bar. I think you are missing the point here. Like @golfingdarwinfish said, the fact that we live in a world where a police officer can say, I perceived a threat and then society just says, oh ok, then it was fine to shoot that person, that is scary. Like I said before, cops are just regular people, but then we give them guns and power (a bad combo in my opinion). There needs to be a check on that power and the people's ability to speak out and question an officer's actions is one type of check.
    Shutting down my computer before I come unglued. 


     


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  • dana2die4dana2die4 member
    MrsCunningham22 said:
    @MonstoMommy‌ is articulating my point better than I can as I am very tired. I think the public is allowed to have comments because police are public servants and they chose their profession.
    Police might not like the comments but people need to feel they have a voice. Calling them ignorant doesn't help, it tells us that the police always knows better and that the killing is therefore justified. I honestly don't believe they will really tell the truth of what happened because they have the power to not have to disclose all information, and that is why people are frustrated.
    Let me get something straight, I don't think just because someone has a different opinion as me that they are ignorant. What I do think is ignorant are comments that refer to the police as "trigger happy pigs" or "they just shot him because he was black"-those are comments that I am talking about. 


     


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  • dana2die4dana2die4 member
    Emerald27 said:
    @dana2die4‌ Good idea. I don't envy your position as the wife of a cop. That would be scary and nerve-wracking, and I would worry about DH every second. I would absolutely want him to defend himself appropriately in dangerous and life-threatening situations. ...and I probably wouldn't sleep. At. All. ...and would have gone gray by now. BUT this is a different issue, and one you're just so understandably close to that it's hard to remain objective. Thank you to you and your husband for making the sacrifice to put his safety on the line for the safety of your community. It's awesome. It's admirable. He has a great deal of responsibility. Holding those who protect us accountable for their actions and carefully scrutinizing cases in which what was right is not obvious helps to ensure the safety of the community AND our police officers.
    Thank you, I appreciate that :):)


     


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  • rowanratrowanrat member
    pnwlover12 said:
    Now I want what my brother and I affectionately refer to as "deuce sauce". It's velveeta, rotel, and spicy sausage all melted together. I'm sure it has a real name but my brother has IBS and everything delicious makes him shit his brains out.

    My family makes this and calls it Dudley Dip! No idea where the name came from.
    "Reality depresses me. I need to find fantasy worlds and escape in them." - Noel Fielding 

    “Don’t be seduced into thinking that that which does not make a profit is without value.” - Arthur Miller 

    “We must be our own before we can be another’s.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson 

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  • aander6aander6 member
    MonstoMommy said:
    dana2die4 said:
    dana2die4 said:

    MrsSarahRenee said:
    And just so you also know where I am coming from; I am married to a police officer who has been in an "officer involved shooting" and who was under the scrutiny from the general public. We all knew he was justified in his shoot, however, reading people's, yes I will say it again "uneducated, hurtful, and ignorant" comments were enough to drive any one bat shit crazy, especially when you know the facts and they don't. Have some compassion for the officer and his family, because little do you know, he could have been completely justified and was scared for HIS life. Think how him and his family feel right now? I'm not saying he is innocent, but people should hold their nasty opinions until the investigation is final. 

    Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying. 
    Yeah I kind of recognized your bias as an officer's wife from your tone. I think you personalized this situation though. I don't know what happened to your husband but I am not sure the same parallels would apply if you consider what we have said about why we (or people in general) are questioning/confused/angry... Media spins officer shootings making the officer look like the bad guy. I get that that happens. In this case, there is MORE to the issue than this individual cop. That is where I am coming from. ETA: "Oh and just because the kid was "unarmed" doesn't mean anything. Just saying." I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. It might not mean EVERYTHING but it has a lot of weight... You even call him a kid in this. This makes you sound like a total bitch. IMHO.
    Just because he was unarmed doesn't mean he wasn't a threat to the officer's life. There have been two "officer involved" shootings here where the suspects staged it to look as if they had a weapon in their pocket, when in fact they didn't. 

    This doesn't even make sense. Pretending you have a weapon doesn't make you a threat to an officer. The officer may think he was in danger, but he wasn't. I think we could sit here all night and make reasonable, sensible arguments against your POV, but it won't change your mind. Your statements have made it clear that you have drawn your conclusions, based on your status as an officer's wife, and yet you don't think that other people who know just as much about the situation should be allowed to do the same.
    Okay, so dispatch calls officers out to a suspect with a "possible weapon" who just robbed a lady on the street. Mind you its 12am, so its dark. The police make contact with the suspect and he has his hand in his pocket and he's holding something that resembles a gun or knife, but won't cooperate nor respond to officers if he has a weapon or not. The suspect then whips out whatever he had in his hand and points it at the officers, you are telling me, if you were in the officers position, you would just stand there???

    The suspect ended up having an extra large snickers bar wrapped in a black baggy, and he was shot and killed. 

    That's not what you said in your last post. You said: just because he was unarmed doesn't mean he wasn't a threat. That is exactly what it means. The officer may perceive a threat, but here isn't an actual threat. Even in your example, the suspect is not a threat to the officer. Again, the officer may think so, but the officer is wrong. And in your example, no I would not shoot the man holding the candy bar. I think you are missing the point here. Like @golfingdarwinfish said, the fact that we live in a world where a police officer can say, I perceived a threat and then society just says, oh ok, then it was fine to shoot that person, that is scary. Like I said before, cops are just regular people, but then we give them guns and power (a bad combo in my opinion). There needs to be a check on that power and the people's ability to speak out and question an officer's actions is one type of check.
    Just to play devils advocate here. Lets say said suspect has your kids cornered an officer approaches asks suspect to take hand out of pockets and he wont then asks if he has a gun and does not answer. Then pulls what could be a gun out of his pocket pointed towards your children. Do you want the officer to assume it is not a gun and do nothing or shoot because he could have a gun and kill your children?

    Having police officers is necessary. I agree they should be under scrutiny from the public after incidents like Michael Brown happen and questions need to be asked. I also think that these men and women are asks sometimes to make split second decisions and are asked to asses situations and react without all the information but that is the nature of their jobs. If these men and women are asked to just assume people are unarmed when they are acting as if they could be or are causing an officer to feel as though their lives truly are in danger and not allowing the officer to react as such how will we ever find people who are willing to be cops?   
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  • SaragoeswestSaragoeswest member
    starla487 said:
    Sigh... We will never have all the facts because a whole entire person involved in the situation is sitting pretty in the city fridge. And by pretty, I mean mauled by gun shots ....but I feel like I'm talking to a person who supports local police being armed like they've been deployed to Iraq.
    An offshoot conversation based on the bold. There is no reason for police depts to have access to military grade weaponry. A small college town near us just got a brand spanking new MRAP. Why? It's a college town with a huge agricultural base. Those fraternity parties will not get that out of hand. While the MRAP was probably federally grant funded, the training, storage and maintenance needed for it probably won't be.
    Did y'all see the piece on this on Last Week Tonight? It was great and if you didn't catch it you can probably find a clip online. 
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  • aander6aander6 member
    starla487 said:
    Sigh... We will never have all the facts because a whole entire person involved in the situation is sitting pretty in the city fridge. And by pretty, I mean mauled by gun shots ....but I feel like I'm talking to a person who supports local police being armed like they've been deployed to Iraq.
    An offshoot conversation based on the bold. There is no reason for police depts to have access to military grade weaponry. A small college town near us just got a brand spanking new MRAP. Why? It's a college town with a huge agricultural base. Those fraternity parties will not get that out of hand. While the MRAP was probably federally grant funded, the training, storage and maintenance needed for it probably won't be.
    Is this college town in Nebraska? If not we got one recently as well.. 
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  • golfingdarwinfishgolfingdarwinfish member
    Saragoeswest said:
    starla487 said:
    Sigh... We will never have all the facts because a whole entire person involved in the situation is sitting pretty in the city fridge. And by pretty, I mean mauled by gun shots ....but I feel like I'm talking to a person who supports local police being armed like they've been deployed to Iraq.
    An offshoot conversation based on the bold. There is no reason for police depts to have access to military grade weaponry. A small college town near us just got a brand spanking new MRAP. Why? It's a college town with a huge agricultural base. Those fraternity parties will not get that out of hand. While the MRAP was probably federally grant funded, the training, storage and maintenance needed for it probably won't be.
    Did y'all see the piece on this on Last Week Tonight? It was great and if you didn't catch it you can probably find a clip online. 
    I LOVE Last Week Tonight (and particularly John Oliver).  It's a fantastic show.
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