Sorry to bring up alcohol again but....

YaMrWhite · August 2014

I went to my anatomy scan today so my husband came too so he could see the baby on the ultrasound. When we went to see my dr after the scan to get the thumbs up, he decided to ask her what she thought about alcohol use during pregnancy. I had previously had a long discussion about it with her and her stance was that towards the end, a glass of wine isn't the end of the world. Today, she told my husband that she was not comfortable with ANY amount of alcohol because there just isn't enough evidence to suggest it is safe. She said she's seen someone drink a lot and the baby was fine and then someone who drank very little and the baby had FAS.

Because of our past conversation (my husband was not present for that) and hearing many different responses on this board, I had loosened up my stance on the whole situation. Now I don't know what the hell to think.

So I know many of you have your own opinions on the matter. Do they line up with your OBs/midwives/other?

tl;dr Do you and your doctor see eye to eye on alcohol during pregnancy?

Edited to add all types of pre-natal drs.

Stargirlb · August 2014

most of my opinions don't align with my (past) OB.

Stargirlb · August 2014

she can't *know* that the FAS mom drank very little. Many people who are alcoholics are quite good at hiding it. Was she doing a blood alcohol level test at every appointment? Doubt it.

YaMrWhite · August 2014

jconno said:

I haven't asked my OB about it. If you are on the fence about drinking some while pregnant then just wait until you deliver. FWIW- I usually follow the advice of my doctor (unless it's just asinine.)

I wasn't on the fence about it anymore. I had come to an understanding with the help of the discussions on this board and friends that have different doctors that a few sips here and there was okay and that maybe I could partake in that. My husband was on board with that but after today now he isn't. I value his opinion and if he truly isn't comfortable with it, then I won't but it made me wonder if other women here are abstaining because of their dr or just not telling them or whatever the case may be (since we seem to have quite a few that have expressed they have had a little here and there).

YaMrWhite · August 2014

Stargirlb said:

she can't *know* that the FAS mom drank very little. Many people who are alcoholics are quite good at hiding it. Was she doing a blood alcohol level test at every appointment? Doubt it.

I did find it odd that she pulled that random "fact" out of a hat...I said that to my husband too. The only way to "know" how much that person drank would have been testing her OR just taking her word for it.

Stargirlb · August 2014

https://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/FetalAlcoholSyndrome.html#.U_YlRVYtlzI

Stargirlb · August 2014

There is no necessity to trust your doctor on things like this anymore. The research is available for all to read.

MoJo2015 · August 2014

Stargirlb said:

she can't *know* that the FAS mom drank very little. Many people who are alcoholics are quite good at hiding it. Was she doing a blood alcohol level test at every appointment? Doubt it.

This. While that mother may have said she didn't drink a lot, that doesn't mean she was telling the truth. And frankly I would bet money she was lying if the kid had FAS. Everything I have read relates FAS to high levels of alcohol consumption. But I would only do what you are comfortable with.

motherboy · August 2014

I'd be upset that she gave contradictory advice. I wonder why she changed? Did she backtrack bc your husband was there? I don't knkw. I'd be upset that she put you in this position.

My ob's office is pretty strict about this stuff. They told me no lunch meat and no alcohol. I've had sips--sips--of beer. I just don't believe that will affect the baby. Doesn't make sense. I definitely have the alcohol digesting enzyme though.

so I don't bring it up with them.

MichaelSC28 · August 2014

...I understand your husband being concerned with the what ifs...I am still just on the stance that I think that people who abuse it are the ones that have complications. I mean not to be funny here but what was the situation when ale/mead was healthier than water and that is what most women drank. I am not saying go for the gusto and just drown yourself in it. But every other month for a special occasion or a sip...is just hard for me to believe is going to be the deciding factor.

I would go with what you and your DH are comfortable with, but there is no solid evidence pointing at FAS occuring from light drinking.

I guess as my mom and grandma always like to say "How in the hell did we survive, how did anyone have kids back in the day...now you hear issues with cribs, alcohol, lunch meat..."

MichaelSC28 · August 2014

emmyg65 said:

Nope, my midwives have given me surprisingly strict prohibitions on all sorts of food. Like no fast food. I was like Lol, okay. I mean, no one's going claim fast food is good for you, but it seems a little much to prohibit it altogether, no? I was too nervous in the moment to ask why they're so strict, but it's the one thing I don't like about them. I generally eat healthfully, but I don't go nuts about it and I still have the occasional sushi roll, cold Italian hoagie, or Big Mac.

I had a big mac last night and a deli sandwich the day before...I may not make it.

Stargirlb · August 2014

also, if your hubby is taking this hardline stance, I hope HE is going cold turkey to support you!

MusicFanatic · August 2014

Stargirlb said:

also, if your hubby is taking this hardline stance, I hope HE is going cold turkey to support you!

Meh.

I love vodka and my husband would never condone drinking vodka while pregnant, but I surely don't expect him to never drink it. He's not pregnant.

I meant to ask the midwife this when I went this AM and forgot

YaMrWhite · August 2014

motherboy said:

I'd be upset that she gave contradictory advice. I wonder why she changed? Did she backtrack bc your husband was there? I don't knkw. I'd be upset that she put you in this position. My ob's office is pretty strict about this stuff. They told me no lunch meat and no alcohol. I've had sips--sips--of beer. I just don't believe that will affect the baby. Doesn't make sense. I definitely have the alcohol digesting enzyme though. so I don't bring it up with them.

I was quite confused by that but just wanted to get out of there since we had my daughter with us and she was getting antsy and, more importantly, I don't like confrontation and am not good at speaking up for myself in face to face situations. I almost feel like I imagined her saying the whole "a glass of wine towards the end is okay" now but I swear I remember her saying it. It wasn't that long ago!!

YaMrWhite · August 2014

Stargirlb said:

also, if your hubby is taking this hardline stance, I hope HE is going cold turkey to support you!

He did but I know he wouldn't be able to hold up to that deal. We are both big into fantasy football and our draft party is August 31st. I would bet a lot of money he wouldn't make it 1 hour without a beer. He also brews beer in our garage so it is always there in a kegerator tempting him.

YaMrWhite · August 2014

These responses are all great and I hope no one minds if my husband reads through them tonight. I think it would help him to read some more opinions of women who have seen other doctors and done their own research.

luckylady18 · August 2014

oh that's really annoying that she changed her stance like that. I still say you have to go with what you feel comfortable with. She may be trying to protect herself from lawsuits, but she may have had a patient recently that made her change her mind. Who knows.

MoJo2015 · August 2014

Like people said already, we can't really do research on humans and the powers that be here say that pregnant women should not drink at all because we just don't know what it will do. It is hard for a doctor to say things are ok when there can be legal ramifications for everything they say and do. I am sure any attorney would advice any doctor they had as a client to be very cautious in what they say is permissive. Hence why we are given so many restrictions that don't always make sense to us after we do our own research.

luckylady18 · August 2014

Thanks for posting that @amt1983. Interesting.

MarxieVonTrapp · August 2014

My OB said that once I'm in my third trimester, a glass of wine would be fine.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I abstain entirely due to family issues.

jneden · August 2014

I have never asked my OB but personally would never risk it. It seems a little selfish to drink something that may potentially harm your child. I think you should just wait until after you deliver. If you want a fun drink have a mocktail or some sparkling cider. The health of your child should be more important than a drink of alcohol in my opinion.

YaMrWhite · August 2014

jneden said:

I have never asked my OB but personally would never risk it. It seems a little selfish to drink something that may potentially harm your child. I think you should just wait until after you deliver. If you want a fun drink have a mocktail or some sparkling cider. The health of your child should be more important than a drink of alcohol in my opinion.

LOL this sounds so familiar. And now I totally understand why I got blasted 15 weeks ago...

MoJo2015 · August 2014

CrazyMonkeyBear said:

jneden said:

I have never asked my OB but personally would never risk it. It seems a little selfish to drink something that may potentially harm your child. I think you should just wait until after you deliver. If you want a fun drink have a mocktail or some sparkling cider. The health of your child should be more important than a drink of alcohol in my opinion.
Who says that the health of our child(ren) isn't more important? Who says we haven't done our research to look into the sources that say no alcohol in pregnancy? As you see, most of us have done our research to find our own comfort levels with alcohol over these 9 months; that does not mean, in the slightest, that a drink of alcohol is more important than the health of our child

I completely agree. I have done my research and I am entirely comfortable that the health of my child is not being compromised by my very limited intact of wine. I still understand if someone does not want to drink as there are a lot of worries and what-ifs in this baby-making process. But it is offensive to be call people selfish for making informed choices.

jneden · August 2014

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to blast you. I just don't understand why with all the complications that can happen during pregnancy...miscarriage, birth defects, diseases etc. you would knowingly put something in your body that can potentially harm your child. I LOVE wine. I miss it sooo much. If my husband has a glass I smell it because I miss it so much. However, as a parent I know I have to sacrifice things in order to protect my child and that starts with pregnancy. The life of a healthy child is worth so much more than any satisfaction I would get from a sip of wine. Also, if something were to happen (even if it couldn't be proven to be alcohol related wouldn't) you feel guilty knowing you may have caused it?

TXUltraRunner · August 2014

I am the type of person who researches things myself. I rarely ask my doctor questions about personal habits. Our discussions generally involve: 1) hospital policy 2) a new diagnosis or 3) problems brought up during an appointment. As far as alcohol, caffeine, etc., I have access to medical journals and articles through DH's work. I'm always looking up abstracts and asking him to print the articles I want to read. We read them together, we compare studies and we make decisions for ourselves.If I have questions in which my doctor's insight can be helpful, I will often take the article to an appointment with me and discuss it there (that's usually if DH and I don't see eye to eye on something).

As far as the alcohol goes, through the research I've done, I get the feeling that because no quantifiable amount can be determined as being safe it is safest to tell a patient that no amount is considered safe. Most doctors do not trust the patient to know what "a little" means. They assume that we're all drinking like American frat boys instead of a modest European. Only you and your DH can make the decision about what your comfortable with but I would urge you to delve into research. Google Scholar is a great place to start. If you find an article that you think is interesting, you can usually find the text by searching specific text on Google or asking a friend with access to scientific articles to get it for you.

jneden · August 2014

I stand by my statement. I do think its selfish. There are warning labels on bottles of alcohol for a reason. Also, how much research have you done compared to the years of research that was done before they decided to start putting warnings on alcohol bottles? I don't understand why people would risk it.

TXUltraRunner · August 2014

jneden said:

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to blast you. I just don't understand why with all the complications that can happen during pregnancy...miscarriage, birth defects, diseases etc. you would knowingly put something in your body that can potentially harm your child. I LOVE wine. I miss it sooo much. If my husband has a glass I smell it because I miss it so much. However, as a parent I know I have to sacrifice things in order to protect my child and that starts with pregnancy. The life of a healthy child is worth so much more than any satisfaction I would get from a sip of wine. Also, if something were to happen (even if it couldn't be proven to be alcohol related wouldn't) you feel guilty knowing you may have caused it?

No because I'm a logical person who understands science.

YaMrWhite · August 2014

jneden said:

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to blast you. I just don't understand why with all the complications that can happen during pregnancy...miscarriage, birth defects, diseases etc. you would knowingly put something in your body that can potentially harm your child. I LOVE wine. I miss it sooo much. If my husband has a glass I smell it because I miss it so much. However, as a parent I know I have to sacrifice things in order to protect my child and that starts with pregnancy. The life of a healthy child is worth so much more than any satisfaction I would get from a sip of wine. Also, if something were to happen (even if it couldn't be proven to be alcohol related wouldn't) you feel guilty knowing you may have caused it?

So, I felt the same as you at one point. I felt it was selfish of me to indulge and I also didn't trust myself to stop after a few sips or half a beer or whatever. But the more I thought about it and read all the research that others had posted, the more comfortable I felt. You don't have to feel comfortable with it but I now understand that calling other moms selfish because they ARE comfortable with it just doesn't make sense. I am a damn good mom. I make sacrifices daily for my daughter and will do so with my next daughter. I would NEVER in a million years do something if I truly felt that it would cause either of them harm. I love them with every inch of my being and would do anything to keep them safe. Which is why I researched this after reading so many comments directed at me for making this same judgement. It took a few months but I have come to realize that as long as you do your thorough research and educate yourself on the risks and are comfortable taking them then I cannot call you selfish. Some people judge me for running during pregnancy. You take a risk every time you get in the car and drive. You take a risk of getting listeria when you eat a peach. Everything comes with a risk.

ekbrick83 · August 2014

Having a few sips of alcohol, or even a glass, if you are comfortable, does not make you a horrible parent/person who doesn't care about the health of your unborn child. For someone to even insinuate that is insensitive and hurtful. We are all in the same boat and ultimately care greatly for our growing babies, or we wouldn't be so passionate about the discussion in the first place. Women put each other down enough...there is nothing wrong with educating yourself and making a decision based on what you feel most comfortable with. If you aren't comfortable with it- that's fine, leave it at that.

TXUltraRunner · August 2014

I'm putting my fetus at risk right now more by having sex and running than I am drinking alcohol (possible placenta previa) and I've chosen to continue to have sex and run based on research of the condition and what my husband and I feel comfortable with (not had any bleeding whatsoever and I'm scheduled for follow up ultrasounds.). Just like anything else in life, you have to decide for yourself through basic risk assessment what you're comfortable with. You have to be confident in your decision. I'm not a worrier and I'm not an overly cautious person. I believe that most doctors assume that their patients are worriers who prefer to just be told what they can and can not do. I prefer to be left to make up my own decisions when it comes to a situation where something "may or may not cause X". But then again, as I've stated earlier, I research everything thoroughly. I learned to make risk assessment and causation decisions during my 3 years of TTC and going through IVF. I continued to live my life just as I am now.

jennyhatt · August 2014

@jneden‌
I hope you don't take any Tylenol, any medication, go epidural free, avoid gas stations, don't eat chocolate, drink any coffee or tea, don't eat sushi or lunch meat, don't put an ounce of fast food into your body, eat wholly organic, your entire pregnancy because all of these things would be selfish and would compromise the health of your baby.

A half a glass of wine once in awhile is NOT going to do anything. It just isn't.
They put those labels on bottles because they don't want people getting pissed up while pregnant and wondering why their kids have issues.

I would not advocate drinking more than a glass without food and in a short period of time, but most women who do enjoy wine or beer in small quantities while pregnant often find they don't want to slam it back either. I know I don't, and I can drink my fair share of wine normally.

there are SO many environmental factors too that are your body is excellent at filtering out before getting to baby.
On reading your posts I think a glass of wine would do you some good

Be a bit wild and have a sip next time.

YaMrWhite · August 2014

CrazyMonkeyBear said:

jneden said:

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to blast you. I just don't understand why with all the complications that can happen during pregnancy...miscarriage, birth defects, diseases etc. you would knowingly put something in your body that can potentially harm your child. I LOVE wine. I miss it sooo much. If my husband has a glass I smell it because I miss it so much. However, as a parent I know I have to sacrifice things in order to protect my child and that starts with pregnancy. The life of a healthy child is worth so much more than any satisfaction I would get from a sip of wine. Also, if something were to happen (even if it couldn't be proven to be alcohol related wouldn't) you feel guilty knowing you may have caused it?

No, I'm a logical person who knows that I didn't cause it. I work around a lot more "dangerous" things than the occasional sip of alcohol every day (radiation and developmental and reproductive toxins are examples). Fine, alcohol is not okay for you, but FFS, we're not being selfish.

Sorry, Ya. I couldn't let the selfish comments go. I hope you can forgive me...

It's cool. I'm bummed this thread took this turn. I just wanted to know if everyone's opinion lined up with your doctors so I could share some insight with my husband. I'll just tell him not to read page two hahaha

mom2case · August 2014

My high-risk doctor TOLD me to drink a glass of wine every night! I didn't and won't because I just don't drink, but it's good for thinning your blood (I have multiple clotting disorders). Fact is, grape juice does the same thing. Wine relaxes you too though and a lot of people with MTHFR and/or FVL have a hard time falling asleep, so he suggested wine to help with thinning my blood and the sleep thing.

American doctors tell us not to do a lot of things that other countries have no problem with. Aside from the wine thing (lots of other countries don't tell women not to drink during pregnancy), there's the fish thing, the listeria thing, ... Japanese women eat fish almost every meal. We're told to only eat it once a week. I can't get over how freaky doctors are about telling us not to eat lunch meat and soft cheeses when almost all of the listeria outbreaks have been on fruits and vegetables.

melmarie4 · August 2014

I haven't asked my doctor about it. I've only had a couple sips of wine/beer during my pregnancy so far. I can see why a half of glass of wine wouldn't be a big deal, but I just don't see the need to. Honestly I would be pretty shocked if someone's baby has FAS just because they drank a little wine, but I'm not a doctor so I don't really know how prevalent it is. I've heard a lot of people say they are eating lunch meat regardless, but when I asked my doctor she said it wasn't worth the risk. I feel more comfortable listening to my doctor above anyone because if I didn't trust her opinion I would find a new doctor who I can trust to deliver my baby safely. I can drink plenty when I'm no longer pregnant so giving it up for 9 months isn't really a big sacrifice. My husband also prefers I not drink because he feel more comfortable with me not taking the risk. He wouldn't make me feel bad if I did, but I respect his opinion.

jneden · August 2014

Yes there are factors that cause risk that we cannot control (environment, driving, working conditions) However, drinking alcohol is a risk that you choose. As I stated I don't understand why people choose this risk. Especially when there are so many other risks that you cannot control it seems unnecessary to add to those. For the record i do avoid caffeine, lunch meat, eat healthy, and try to avoid potentially harmful risks. I am PGAL and I will do everything to minimize my risks this pregnancy to ensure I have a healthy, happy baby. I don't always voice my opinions on this site I usually try and stay out of the dramatic topics but in this case my opinion is very strong so I voiced it.

@YaMrWhite I'm sorry this thread did not go in the direction you were hoping. Maybe your husband has strong opinions on this subject like I do? It sounds like he has concerns so maybe have a long discussion with him again? I hope you guys can reach a decision that you are both comfortable with.

jneden · August 2014

@amt1983 this is public knowledge. Just read the warning label on the bottle before you drink it

YaMrWhite · August 2014

jneden said:
Yes there are factors that cause risk that we cannot control (environment, driving, working conditions) However, drinking alcohol is a risk that you choose. As I stated I don't understand why people choose this risk. Especially when there are so many other risks that you cannot control it seems unnecessary to add to those. For the record i do avoid caffeine, lunch meat, eat healthy, and try to avoid potentially harmful risks. I am PGAL and I will do everything to minimize my risks this pregnancy to ensure I have a healthy, happy baby. I don't always voice my opinions on this site I usually try and stay out of the dramatic topics but in this case my opinion is very strong so I voiced it.
@YaMrWhite I'm sorry this thread did not go in the direction you were hoping. Maybe your husband has strong opinions on this subject like I do? It sounds like he has concerns so maybe have a long discussion with him again? I hope you guys can reach a decision that you are both comfortable with.

No he agrees with me but he wanted to know what other doctors think and I told him I'd ask my board since we all have different doctors.

YaMrWhite · August 2014

CrazyMonkeyBear said:

ladyamanuet said:

jneden said:

@amt1983 this is public knowledge. Just read the warning label on the bottle before you drink it

This does not constitute scientific research. This is put on labels for the same reason Superman costumes have warning labels that say "suit does not enable wearer to fly" - so those that drink in EXCESS cannot then try to sue the brewery/vineyard/distillery because the baby was born with FAS.

I laughed way too hard at the bolded warning. It's like the "don't drop this thing plugged into the wall into a bath tub of water" warnings.

Sorry, Ya. It made me giggle way too much to not share... can we still be friends even though I semi-hijacked a post on your thread?

It's cool

YaMrWhite · August 2014

ladyamanuet said:
@YaMrWhite I think the board approach is good, because he sees a bunch of different opinions, not only from other pregnant women, but what their doctor's have said. Mine's response was kind of like Lily's on HIMYM "just a little bit"

Perhaps the best way for you to decide as a couple is to look at scholarly articles? I would also see if you can find any that discuss the differing views in the US and Europe. My opinion is that the US is far more litigious than Europe and that is why Drs feel more comfortable saying just a little bit and trusting their patients to know that doesn't mean they can go on a bender every weekend

I let him read the responses and he feels comfortable that what I've researched is valid and that possibly my dr is just saying what she needs to to protect herself and her practice. He's gonna read some more himself but feels comfortable with the approach I've taken now. Seriously, thank you all for the responses

mom2case · August 2014

CrazyMonkeyBear said:

mom2case said:

My high-risk doctor TOLD me to drink a glass of wine every night! I didn't and won't because I just don't drink, but it's good for thinning your blood (I have multiple clotting disorders). Fact is, grape juice does the same thing. Wine relaxes you too though and a lot of people with MTHFR and/or FVL have a hard time falling asleep, so he suggested wine to help with thinning my blood and the sleep thing.

@mom2case slightly off topic, but I had no idea MTHFR could have something to do with my issues falling asleep!

@crazymonkeybear I did a quick google search and found this. There is a lot more information on this site as well. https://thyroid.about.com/od/MTHFR-Gene-Mutations-and-Polymorphisms/fl/The-Link-Between-MTHFR-Gene-Mutations-and-Disease-Including-Thyroid-Health.htm

"First, methylfolate helps make neurotransmitters in your brain. Neurotransmitters are what allow us to think, sleep, run away, express emotions and learn. When methylfolate levels are low, so are your neurotransmitters. Low production of neurotransmitters may cause conditions of addictive behavior, depression, anxiety, ADHD, mania, irritability, insomnia, learning disorders and others."

TXUltraRunner · August 2014

The warnings in Kentucky say that drinking prior to conception will cause birth defects. Hahaha if that were true, I would have FAS for sure since I've been told I was conceived after a lot of Boones Farm wine while listening to the Marshall Tucker Band. Warning labels were created because people make terrible decisions and then sue the pants off of whomever they can find to take the blame

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Sorry to bring up alcohol again but....

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