Good Morning Spamerica!!

merc5411 · July 2014

@Carrie3102 (and I'm gonna add @NKaeding and @Meimsx, since you ladies know this stuff) Can you explain what you are talking about when you say there is a limit to the amount an employer can pay an employee? I'm curious about this and can't seem to find any information on it. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks ladies

coco2787 · July 2014

This is interesting...
Hobby Lobby Invests In Abortion Pill Manufacturers
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5070279?utm_hp_ref=tw

Not to mention, Hobby lobby's own insurance paid for all these services before Obama care. This is strictly a political move that tied up the Supreme Court and cost the taxpayers!

Some excellent quotes from Ginsburg's dissent:

"It bears note in this regard that the cost of an IUD is nearly equivalent to a month's full-time pay for workers earning the minimum wage."

"Would the exemption…extend to employers with religiously grounded objections to blood transfusions (Jehovah's Witnesses); antidepressants (Scientologists); medications derived from pigs, including anesthesia, intravenous fluids, and pills coated with gelatin (certain Muslims, Jews, and Hindus); and vaccinations[?]…Not much help there for the lower courts bound by today's decision."

If I wasn't on mobile this one would be in bold.

"Approving some religious claims while deeming others unworthy of accommodation could be 'perceived as favoring one religion over another,' the very 'risk the [Constitution's] Establishment Clause was designed to preclude."

Oh, and corporations are not people.

sparkymcgeee · July 2014

Oh so people actually following their convictions and standing true to their faith is the problem. Awesome livvy. Integrity is just awful.

MRads · July 2014

There are a few things that disturb me about the HL situation. I haven't followed closely enough to have an opinion on the SCOTUS ruling.

1) the conversation was around BC. I would be interested to know what HLs feelings on vasectomies are and I am troubled that so much of the conversation focuses on things for women and not things for men.

2) I know people who have found the most success for treating their endo/cysts with IUDs. The fact that IUDs provide a medicinal value beyond just contraception makes me feel that it should be covered.

Miscarriage mentioned below.

3) most hospitals classify miscarriages as abortions, because in the most literal sense, that is medically what a miscarriage is. I worry that companies will be able to not provide insurance coverage for medical assistance for miscarriage. This could be faulty logic, but I do know of instances where people have had resistance for finding assistance in later term losses.

coco2787 · July 2014

So basically your employer gets to dictate your religious beliefs...or at least limit the expression of then in regards to your own personal health care, assuming they are different from the employers religious beliefs.

It's illegal to ask about religion in the hiring process, but clearly job seekers should be prepared to ask about the religious beliefs of the company when hiring. Should there be a truth in advertising requirement for employers? Unfortunately with the job market the way it is, people can't be so choosy.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

theuntaggablek · July 2014

I will not be reading this thread any further.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Carrie3102 · July 2014

livvyx said:

Honestly? My objection is because I don't want my damn craft store to have any religious affiliation. I didn't say "horrible", or "abortion". I didn't know they aren't open on Sunday for religious reasons - that just cements my dislike.

You're more than welcome to dislike them because they have a religious affiliation. No you didn't say horrible or abortion, you're right, you said you wanted them to suffer for their beliefs. How hypocritical is that? I think if roles were reversed and someone disagreed with something that you vehemently believed in you'd think differently.

Oh wait, we've already seen that happen. FTR no one in that conversation was rude or wished anyone any hardship and there were still plenty of flames for the other side of the argument.

It's so blatantly obvious how one sided this board is sometimes. I guess some time away really brings that to the forefront.

Carrie3102 · July 2014

NKaeding said:

@Carrie3102 (and I'm gonna add @NKaeding and @Meimsx, since you ladies know this stuff) Can you explain what you are talking about when you say there is a limit to the amount an employer can pay an employee? I'm curious about this and can't seem to find any information on it. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks ladies
I'm unclear what Carrie meant by that comment.

I was referencing Wage and Price controls... I'm doing all my research after the fact. It's a Nixon Era thing, here's some background from a reliable source

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/remembering-nixons-wage-price-controls

thegoodpotato · July 2014

Happy Canada Day!

Hooray for socialised medicine!

(That's all I have that's relevant to today's topic. We don't have Hobby Lobby here. Whew!)

Carrie3102 · July 2014

mermomo5 said:

But, you want @livvy to share your thought process but you can't support the fact she will make the decision not to shop there. I highly doubt Livvy deciding not to purchase at hobby lobby will shut the place down. Unless Livvy is a major crafter.. I understand what NKaeding is saying and I know this stuff is her expertise. I however think hobby lobby is wrong. This is my belief. Again I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

Nope pretty sure I said she was more than welcome to shop where she wanted for her reasons that she wants. I in no way expect her to change her position, I just think it's very hypocritical to wish that their livelihood and that of their employees would suffer due to their religious beliefs.

thegoodpotato · July 2014

lizabethann06 said:

I don't even know.

You win comment of the day, @lizabethann06!!

[Deleted User] · July 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Pink724 · July 2014

@lancomechica - I hope that V feels better ASAP and that the tubes do the trick! Hugs as you deal with this.

@NKaeding - thank you for your insight. I love hearing the facts from someone who is informed, as we often hear it from others as colored with political leanings.

thegoodpotato · July 2014

Also, I find this spam title really ironic, considering its Canada Day.

thegoodpotato · July 2014

mermomo5 said:

Good god , I started this . My fault but in all seriousness , when I think holly lobby this is what comes to mind.

Me too. I always think of holly hobby. I still have mine.

Pink724 · July 2014

@dliz87 - I hope your day gets better!!

thegoodpotato · July 2014

Also, on July 4th can the spam thread be called 'Oh, Spamada' in retaliation?

Carrie3102 · July 2014

etoille said:

MRads said:

There are a few things that disturb me about the HL situation. I haven't followed closely enough to have an opinion on the SCOTUS ruling. 1) the conversation was around BC. I would be interested to know what HLs feelings on vasectomies are and I am troubled that so much of the conversation focuses on things for women and not things for men. 2) I know people who have found the most success for treating their endo/cysts with IUDs. The fact that IUDs provide a medicinal value beyond just contraception makes me feel that it should be covered. Miscarriage mentioned below. 3) most hospitals classify miscarriages as abortions, because in the most literal sense, that is medically what a miscarriage is. I worry that companies will be able to not provide insurance coverage for medical assistance for miscarriage. This could be faulty logic, but I do know of instances where people have had resistance for finding assistance in later term losses.

Exactly this.

I see where this could be an issue. I remember when I saw my records at the OB after I found out I was pregnant with Josephine, it said "abortions -- 1" and I was all... I never had an abortion, but the nurse told me that is how M/C are classified. It just made me more sad about it.

martyn17 · July 2014

People pay in for their medical insurance, which is employer-sponsored for many people. Some corporations are run by people who have strong religious beliefs. Employees, however, can have different beliefs and work with their doctors to make medical decisions, which may include birth control supplied by health insurance. No one is asking a boss to pay for someone’s birth control. A corporation cannot have a religious belief, as it’s not a person. Employees are making medical decisions with their doctors and then having it paid for by the health insurance which they contribute to. No one is forcing anyone to use birth control if they don’t want to.

There is enormous public health benefits to women and men having affordable access to birth control. While I believe it would be better if these benefits were provided to all people directly by the government and I believe many forms of birth control should be available OTC, I do not believe that having access to good, comprehensive health insurance provided by an employing corporation directly violates a church or religious belief. Regardless of why a woman needs birth control, and we all know there are many reasons, the public health benefits are enormous and the evidence proving the need for comprehensive reproductive healthcare is overwhelming. I personally know people who have had trouble getting medical treatment for ectopic pregnancies because their health insurance classified it as an abortion.

As Justice Ginsberg wrote, "The requirement carries no command that Hobby Lobby or Conestoga purchase or provide the contraceptives they find objectionable. Instead, it calls on the companies covered by the requirement to direct money into undifferentiated funds that finance a wide variety of benefits under comprehensive health plans."

I respect very much those on this board who have strong religious beliefs, but I don’t agree with this ruling at all. I also don’t think refusing to patron a business that who find objectionable is wrong.

dliz87 · July 2014

This is my fav bump social debate of all time.

I emailed my pre-law professor today asking what he thought of the ruling. He also taught an awesome Politics & Ethics class and I am jealous that I can't actually be in class this fall to have this debate in person. Virtual debating in J13 will have to quench my nerdy-PoliSci self today.

Carrie3102 · July 2014

livvyx said:

I'm offended by religion.

And if I'm a hypocrite for wishing ill on Hobby Lobby because I'd be upset that someone wished me ill for my choices - I WOULDN'T. I said several times in that thread that I give zero fucks if anyone disagrees or wishes me ill. I've been told I'm going to "hell" a few times. I'm choosing not to associate with Hobby Lobby, and anyone who thinks I'm awful can choose not to associate with me.

Fairly certain you're blowing that out of proportion no one said you were awful. Religion offends you? Really? I'm just done. Lots of shit offends me you don't see me saying they should remove it all from any and all things I may participate in. I pull up my big girl panties and well, choose to associate or not. Wishing no one ill either way.

I'm out.

martyn17 · July 2014

dliz87 said:

This is my fav bump social debate of all time. I emailed my pre-law professor today asking what he thought of the ruling. He also taught an awesome Politics & Ethics class and I am jealous that I can't actually be in class this fall to have this debate in person. Virtual debating in J13 will have to quench my nerdy-PoliSci self today.

I was thinking about my amazing Health Policy and Management professor, and how interested I'd be to sit in on his class this week. I wish I was still in NYC so I could stop by Columbia and slip in his class.

[Deleted User] · July 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

coco2787 · July 2014

Carrie3102 said:

livvyx said:

I'm offended by religion.

And if I'm a hypocrite for wishing ill on Hobby Lobby because I'd be upset that someone wished me ill for my choices - I WOULDN'T. I said several times in that thread that I give zero fucks if anyone disagrees or wishes me ill. I've been told I'm going to "hell" a few times. I'm choosing not to associate with Hobby Lobby, and anyone who thinks I'm awful can choose not to associate with me.

Fairly certain you're blowing that out of proportion no one said you were awful. Religion offends you? Really? I'm just done. Lots of shit offends me you don't see me saying they should remove it all from any and all things I may participate in. I pull up my big girl panties and well, choose to associate or not. Wishing no one ill either way.

I'm out.

--------------------------------------------------

I'm offended that our money (and government buildings) say "in God we Trust" and that our politicians say "God bless America" in their speeches, and that the pledge of allegiance mentions God and that "God Bless America" is played at baseball games. I could go on and on with examples.

I don't think it's blowing things out of proportion to be offended by religion if you aren't religious. Christianity is ABSOLUTELY the favored religion in the country, it's not even subtle. It's shoved in my face every single day.

Religious people would be HIGHLY offended if our government was putting anti-god messages everywhere. The double-standard is completely ridiculous. Who are you (general 'you') to say that my lack of religious beliefs is any less important than your own faith? I can be just as dedicated to my atheism as you are to your God.

KMRR86 · July 2014

Feels like a Thursday up in hurrrrrrr........

merc5411 · July 2014

@Carrie3102, I know you said you were out, and I'm not trying to pull you back in, but I wanted to comment on the link and previous post. At one time there was an attempt to restrict wage increases. That doesn't apply anymore. I find it very hard to believe that a major company WANTS to pay their employees more. Its all about making as much money for the owners, not about wanting to pay its employees more. As a RN, if I work as a PRN employee I'm not entitled to health ins. I would get a hire base rate, but at the hospitals locally that increase would BARELY be enough to cover me, and it wouldn't be enough to cover my child or my dh.

IF you drive a company car, the company's insurance covers you driving it. If you live in a company owned house, the company pays for the home ins. I don't see how its wrong to have your employer pay for your medical ins.

I totally disagree with the SCOTUS decision. And my opinion is just a valid as yours (or anyone else's)

On a happier note, here's a picture of AIden and his girlfriend (I'm purposely not tagging her mama here).

gutsymama · July 2014

Audrey1787 said:

I wonder what UO is going to be about now...

Cheetah balls.

gutsymama · July 2014

Vomits at lunch and at dinner yesterday. I think I'm going to try to get an appointment with the feeding team for a re-eval to make sure nothing weird is going on there since so many of his pukes start off with mealtime gagging

But, I did get a response to the resume I submitted last week - "This is to acknowledge we have received your application for our position." That means I'm practically hired, right?

<:-P ;;)

gutsymama · July 2014

casey78 said:

mimi4347 said:

Vomits at lunch and at dinner yesterday. I think I'm going to try to get an appointment with the feeding team for a re-eval to make sure nothing weird is going on there since so many of his pukes start off with mealtime gagging

But, I did get a response to the resume I submitted last week - "This is to acknowledge we have received your application for our position." That means I'm practically hired, right?
<:-P ;;)

Thinking of you @mimi4347. Nice progress on the job front. You are now infinity times more likely to be hired than if they did not receive your application.

In all seriousness, I am actually really excited about that email because I didn't find the listing until a couple of days after the posted deadline had already passed, so I submitted anyway since the posting was still up but I was worried they would just flat-out reject it.

lancomechica · July 2014

Somehow...someway...my spam threads seem to generate the most convo on our board.

Should I post spam daily to keep this level of convo up?

gutsymama · July 2014

AND - we had a 2am diaper change, so when Luke woke up for the day at 6:30 he wasn't leaky like usual. So I brought him into our room. Usually when I put him in bed with us he just crawls all over us and tries to nosedive off the bed and fusses until we get up and play with him.

This morning he snuggled in and slept until 7:15. I didn't go back to sleep for fear he would roll off the bed, but he never snuggles like that. It's either me sitting up holding him while he naps, or he's awake and ready to go. It was amazing.

Carrie3102 · July 2014

merc5411 said:
@Carrie3102, I know you said you were out, and I'm not trying to pull you back in, but I wanted to comment on the link and previous post. At one time there was an attempt to restrict wage increases. That doesn't apply anymore. I find it very hard to believe that a major company WANTS to pay their employees more. Its all about making as much money for the owners, not about wanting to pay its employees more. As a RN, if I work as a PRN employee I'm not entitled to health ins. I would get a hire base rate, but at the hospitals locally that increase would BARELY be enough to cover me, and it wouldn't be enough to cover my child or my dh.

IF you drive a company car, the company's insurance covers you driving it. If you live in a company owned house, the company pays for the home ins. I don't see how its wrong to have your employer pay for your medical ins.

I totally disagree with the SCOTUS decision. And my opinion is just a valid as yours (or anyone else's)

On a happier note, here's a picture of AIden and his girlfriend (I'm purposely not tagging her mama here).

I never said your opinion wasn't valid.

merc5411 · July 2014

@Carrie3102‌ , I apologize. I worded that wrong. The last part was meant to be a collective "you", not aimed at you specifically. My bad

sparkymcgeee · July 2014

Maybe I don't understand how someone who doesn't believe in God can be offended by Him. If he doesn't exist then isn't it the same as the snufflupagus or heffalump is offensive to you?

redrocksmama · July 2014

@jamis1284, sounds like you might have a stress fracture? Stress fractures don't always show up on xrays and can cause pain for months. I got a metatarsil stress fracture when I was around 38 weeks pregnant and had serious foot pain for about 4 months. Like, just walking around the grocery store would induce agony. I had an xray done on 2 separate occasions, but the doctors couldn't see the injury. It was only visible on an MRI. I hope they find something! I know how frustrating that is.

Altima80 · July 2014

My household has had a horrible cough for a week now. Poor LO nursed, burped, and was perfectly fine until his coughing fit hit. He barfed up all his milk on my and the bed, then started tapping his little feet in it. Ugh. Hoping he feels better soon.

gutsymama · July 2014

On our current approved (by Luke) foods list:

Yogurt

Cheese

Oatmeal w/ Peanut Butter (huzzah! peanut butter was inexplicably on the no-fly list last week)

Goldfish

Cheetos

Tortilla Chips

Baked Beans, but only the kind made by grandma with loads of bacon and mostly only the sauce part because that's where all the bacon fat is

Dog Hair

Dog Food

Dead blooms from our mimosa tree

sparkymcgeee · July 2014

I think this whole argument is moot anyway because we KNOW there is going to be legislation put forth to change this and these four forms of BC will be covered by the government some way. RFRA was passed by congress. Congress can therefore change this whole outcome.

Additionally, the ruling had specific language limiting scope and the slippery slope argument HERE doesn't apply in my opinion. Of course I'm biased.

That said I'm no longer participating in this discussion. If this thread turns to more adorable baby related things like birthday parties or cute new milestones then page me.

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