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October 2013 Moms
Jenball717
member
HTT
Jenball717
member
In light of all the recent stories of babies left in hot cars lately:
Do you think parents of these children should be charged with murder or manslaughter? If not, should they face any charges or punishment?
Do you think parents of these children should be charged with murder or manslaughter? If not, should they face any charges or punishment?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: HTT
It is not illegal or punishable everywhere. In the state of North Dakota there are no laws. I could leave a toddler, as long as it's not for very long and a cool day. The cops won't do squat.
They do have suggestions though. I can't found the graphic explaining it though.
Not saying I agree, but it's not illegal everywhere.
ETA - to change wording. I saw the law says toddlers. So my example was a moot point.
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Oh, I definitely agree. I live in North Dakota. I'm sure as our population increases, and more tragedies occur. Laws will be changed.
I agree with dknight--if it was solely an accident, these parents need compassion and counseling (and probably suicide watches). It gets so hot here in the summer--and I have that heart sinking feeling that the above poster described some mornings that our routine has been changed--not because we have ever slipped up. But just because I know now front hat article how truly easy it is to do so--and then have to live with that mistake everyday for the rest of your life...
Exactly. This is a tragedy, just like a kid getting hit by a car by darting out in the street when a parent got distracted when they were all out playing on the driveway. Could the parent have avoided it by being more careful and vigilant? yes. Could it possibly happen to all of us in the right circumstances, but for the grace of God? Yes.
I about puked, then ugly cried in my office, then left work early and ran home to my baby. I also sent it to my DH and made him read it. I think anyone who does this to their child, even accidental, should have to hear what that man heard. Even retyping this makes me cry. It is absolutely horrible.
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Retyping it makes you cry thinking about what you heard, now imagine being that parent who is sleep deprived, trying to make ends meet, but had a change in their routine and a tragic accident happened. How do you feel having to hear the process of what your child had to endure and know it's accidentally because of you?
This is the article Sooner mentioned. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html
Someone else posted it a few weeks ago. It's really, really haunting, but I think it would change your mind.
That's the point there are millions of tired parents out there. We are all capable of making this mistake. That is why it is so terrifying.
The way our human brains are wired. It makes this kind of mistake very possible. We run out auto- pilot so much. Especially while driving.
A simple phone call or a change of routine can be a matter of life or death. Should you be punished because you plumber called while you are on your way to work?
I have really bad ADD. I have really bad lapses of memory. ALL THE TIME! Leaving my child is my biggest fear ever!
I'm not saying they shouldn't have charges brought against them; a lot of the elements of a crime are present. But intent or criminally reckless behavior is missing, at the end of the day.
The next morning, I couldn't find my keys. I looked everywhere. I finally thought maybe I left them in my car. As I headed out the front door to check, I found my entire keychain with the house key still shoved in the front lock. We live on a busy street in the middle of town. By my momentary lapse in thought, I unknowingly jeopardized the safety of TNT entire family--all the people I love more than anything in the world all night. We had locked the door from the inside that night, not realizing that the keys were just hanging out in the lock for anyone to come in.
If, God forbid, my children had been harmed by an intruder who walked by and saw the shiny key ring in the door lock and couldn't help himself, I would never, ever be able to forgive myself. The sheer thought makes me feel like a heart attack is coming on. No amount of criminal punishment would be worse than my own internal guilt. I would have relived that moment of my daughter rushing me at the door in a full-on aria of "let it go" in my brain forever, because that caused a hiccup in my "normal" coming in the door routine. I would always be sick thinking about my husband moving my bags to the table, so I didn't see them right next to the door where I dropped them, and possibly remember when I saw the dropped bags that I hadn't finished getting the key out of the lock. I would always wonder if I could have heard the key ring jingle in the door as I flipped the lock before going to bed that night. Forever and ever.
Those who are saying that is a crime, then I should be punished--regardless of the fact that, by the grace of God, my family was not harmed through my own carelessness. My actions caused my babies to be put in harms way.
Think of all the parents and spouses on this board who have dropped their kids or allowed then to roll off a changing table or bed, just from a momentary lapse in attention. What if they had called their pediatrician to ask if the kid would be okay and a police car pulled up an hour later to arrest them for their negligence that resulted in harm to their child?
To me, the car situation is the same thing. It is horrific. It could happen to anyone. It is (most of the time) an accident. For their accidents, criminal penalties are absolutely not the answer. Unless we as a society are prepared to start charging every parent whose kid falls off a bed or who eats a vitamin or medicine in a container that was accidentally left on a table at a grandparent's house with the same crime.
I don't want to live in that society. Accidents (like me leaving the key in the door) happen all the time, even to very good parents. All we can do is try to educate ourselves to potential risks and be as vigilant as possible and hope to God that we are one of the lucky ones who never have to bear the burden of having a child be hurt or killed based on an accident that we could possibly have prevented...
Anyway, I think carelessness was a factor here. Many things could have gone wrong, the kid sitting in the drivers seat of the running car could have put the car in gear and drove through the storefront. Someone could have taken the car. The kids could have locked themselves inside and not known how to unlock the car to let mom in. I think things like this should be taken very seriously and no kids should ever be left in cars at all. If we don't punish instances like this harshly, how can we educate everyone to the dangers of such practices? Before it gets to the most serious form, a child perishing from it. Maybe if those who have gone through it would relive their stories to other parents, it could save a child's life later? I dunno, it's all just a big mess but we have such a huge responsibility as parents.
This is not about you 'being an asshole' and it's not saying that those poor kids didn't die a horrific and cruel death. They did. I understand that upsets you and makes you angry. But it still doesn't make those parents criminals. Just because something was theoretically preventable does not make it a crime when it happens. It's like Sooner said. A child could fall from a changing table, a door could fail to latch and lock properly and the child could wander off, children accidentally drown every year (remember the 'dry drowning' article?) None of these things are crimes.
@ncase2
You are using your emotions to inflict an undeserved punishment. Law is about being rational. Your statements are not rational. This exactly why we have a judge and a jury vs lynch mobs deciding people's fate.