HTT

Jenball717

My husband brought up a good point when we were talking about it last night. He said that a lot of these parents likely have other children. So jail would create even more problems for those innocent children.

However, I still think there needs to be some sort of consequence, but I'm not sure what.

carawasa

sleepy33 said:

catycate said:

If I took a call from the plumber and drove across a median and killed pedestrians I would face charges. If I fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone I would face charges. I don't feel like cases like this should be any different.

Both of those scenarios involve you intentionally engaging in known risky behaviors. Obviously, these parents were coherent enough to drive, so they weren't exhausted to the point of falling asleep at the wheel, and they were functioning at their jobs.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have charges brought against them; a lot of the elements of a crime are present. But intent or criminally reckless behavior is missing, at the end of the day.


I'm just curious because i agree that there shouldn't be prison time for this. But what if you forgot your child because you were sleep deprived? Would that make it prison worthy

LC122

quartermisses said:

btimes3 said:

If I were, gods forbid, in the place of one of those parents, no one would have to worry about sitting in judgement of me and trying to figure out exactly what punishment would satisfy their desire for "justice."  I wouldn't be here, I would be gone, I would be dead.  I don't say this to make light of suicide, not at all.  I am not engaging in hyperbole for dramatic effect.  I could never live if that happened to me.  I'm sure, although no one else has said it yet, that I'm not the only one.

So if that's true, that for some of us this would be the very end of us, and for everyone else it would mean living in a personal hell of guilt that most people could never imagine, what prison sentence do you think could possibly compare?  And why would you want to heap that comparatively minor insult atop the already grievous injury?

I wasn't going to say it, but yeah. Same here. 




@quartermisses‌
So, you would leave your other child without a mother and without a sister?

DETrent

LC122 said:

quartermisses said:

btimes3 said:

If I were, gods forbid, in the place of one of those parents, no one would have to worry about sitting in judgement of me and trying to figure out exactly what punishment would satisfy their desire for "justice."  I wouldn't be here, I would be gone, I would be dead.  I don't say this to make light of suicide, not at all.  I am not engaging in hyperbole for dramatic effect.  I could never live if that happened to me.  I'm sure, although no one else has said it yet, that I'm not the only one.

So if that's true, that for some of us this would be the very end of us, and for everyone else it would mean living in a personal hell of guilt that most people could never imagine, what prison sentence do you think could possibly compare?  And why would you want to heap that comparatively minor insult atop the already grievous injury?

I wasn't going to say it, but yeah. Same here. 

@quartermisses‌
So, you would leave your other child without a mother and without a sister?



...asked Super Mom.

LC122

Super Mom, Queen Sanctimommy.
Such titles I hold.

carawasa

btimes3 said:

LC122 said:

Super Mom, Queen Sanctimommy.
Such titles I hold.

Well, we're limited by the TOU, you know.



VERY true...

Weljadraak

OK a line is about to be crossed, here.  I'm starting to feel the heat from this suicide talk and it's not because I disagree with the statement.  I actually agree with the sentiment.  It is one of the first things I feel when I read a story like this. I do NOT WANT to imagine how I would feel if I lost a child.  Not trying to be "post police" but seriously, LC, do NOT pose that question to quartermisses.  QM, I'm not trying to WK for you, either.  I have no question you can defend yourself.  This is about ME and how I FEEL about where you are going with that question, LC.  YOU NEED TO BACK OFF IT.

Weljadraak

YOU'RE BASICALLY QUESTIONING HER LOVE FOR HER FAMILY AND THAT'S FUCKED UP. 

LC122

Weljadraak said:

YOU'RE BASICALLY QUESTIONING HER LOVE FOR HER FAMILY AND THAT'S FUCKED UP. 

Not at all. I have no doubt that she loves both of her children immensely.

The reason some people consider suicide selfish is because people don't seem to consider all the repercussions. Maybe she has. Maybe she is saying that losing one child would render her unfit to care for the other. That's not for me to say.

My point was that as tragic as it would be to lose a child, it would also be tragic for the other child to lose a sibling and mother.

hlb622

LC122 said:

Weljadraak said:

YOU'RE BASICALLY QUESTIONING HER LOVE FOR HER FAMILY AND THAT'S FUCKED UP. 

Not at all. I have no doubt that she loves both of her children immensely.

The reason some people consider suicide selfish is because people don't seem to consider all the repercussions. Maybe she has. Maybe she is saying that losing one child would render her unfit to care for the other. That's not for me to say.

My point was that as tragic as it would be to lose a child, it would also be tragic for the other child to lose a sibling and mother.

The reason people consider suicide selfish is because they are grieving, need someone to blame, and/or can't comprehend how a disease can take hold of you, mentally and physically, and make you feel as though there is no other option but to die. Using guilt to try to prevent a suicide is pointless and cruel.

People who die by suicide do not do it for attention or for selfish reasons. They have lost all hope and the will to live.

Please, just stop. You have no idea what you're talking about and how very close to home this hits right now.

sleepy33

carawasa said:

catycate said:

If I took a call from the plumber and drove across a median and killed pedestrians I would face charges. If I fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone I would face charges. I don't feel like cases like this should be any different.

Both of those scenarios involve you intentionally engaging in known risky behaviors. Obviously, these parents were coherent enough to drive, so they weren't exhausted to the point of falling asleep at the wheel, and they were functioning at their jobs.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have charges brought against them; a lot of the elements of a crime are present. But intent or criminally reckless behavior is missing, at the end of the day.

I'm just curious because i agree that there shouldn't be prison time for this. But what if you forgot your child because you were sleep deprived? Would that make it prison worthy

IDK, probably that would be a question for a jury to decide. At what threshold does sleep deprivation become such a hindrance that you know, or should know, that you are unable to care for a child? Both sides can be argued. I tend to think that if you are alert enough to drive safely and function all day at work, then you are probably alert enough to care for a child. People mention sleep deprivation a lot with these cases, but I honestly think the overriding thing is just the 'auto-pilot' mode that happens.

DETrent

LC122 said:

Weljadraak said:

YOU'RE BASICALLY QUESTIONING HER LOVE FOR HER FAMILY AND THAT'S FUCKED UP. 

Not at all. I have no doubt that she loves both of her children immensely.

The reason some people consider suicide selfish is because people don't seem to consider all the repercussions. Maybe she has. Maybe she is saying that losing one child would render her unfit to care for the other. That's not for me to say.

My point was that as tragic as it would be to lose a child, it would also be tragic for the other child to lose a sibling and mother.

Just. Shut. Up. NOW.

Unless you've dealt with depression and guilt, you have no right to question someone's actions under those conditions.

Actually, cancel that. You have no right to judge someone in that situation regardless of circumstances. You are completely insensitive and judgmental.

LC122

@DETrent‌, there is no judgement there. It was a question.

This board loves to play the J card. Overplayed.

Weljadraak

LC, if your intention was to communicate your feelings about suicide, then I think you need a different approach.  You came off as, like I said, questioning a mother's love for her family.  Saying "so you would leave your other child without a mother and a sister?" comes off insensitive  I believe you took her agreement with btimes and ran with it in a foul way.  Bottom line is what you said was inappropriate.

LC122

I didn't run with anything in a foul way. I posed a question. To make it not about QM and put it more broadly, Would one's feelings about suicide following the death of a child be different if one had more than one child?

These are talking points, subjects for discussions. Here are two others:

There is an article circulating about gun violence and one of the stories mentioned in that article is about two kids/toddlers (brothers, I believe) who were sharing a crib (not sure why) that was next to a dresser. One of them opened the dresser drawer, found a gun, and shot the other (accidentally). How complex must the grief in that family be? And what about the child who accidentally shot his brother? The family dynamics would be forever changed.

Another debate that I've recently overheard: A parent of an only child was afraid to let that child fly on an airplane by himself. In discussing her fears, she argued "But he's my only child" and told other parents, who have more than one child, that they "wouldn't understand" because they don't have just one child. The parents with multiple children argued that the loss of a child is horrific no matter how many children you have and is not lessened by the presence of other children. Thoughts?

LC122

T3hKay said:

LC122 said:

Super Mom, Queen Sanctimommy.
Such titles I hold.

Don't forget my favorite!

TOU

Weljadraak

LC122 said: I didn't run with anything in a foul way. I posed a question. To make it not about QM and put it more broadly, Would one's feelings about suicide following the death of a child be different if one had more than one child? These are talking points, subjects for discussions. Here are two others: There is an article circulating about gun violence and one of the stories mentioned in that article is about two kids/toddlers (brothers, I believe) who were sharing a crib (not sure why) that was next to a dresser. One of them opened the dresser drawer, found a gun, and shot the other (accidentally). How complex must the grief in that family be? And what about the child who accidentally shot his brother? The family dynamics would be forever changed. Another debate that I've recently overheard: A parent of an only child was afraid to let that child fly on an airplane by himself. In discussing her fears, she argued "But he's my only child" and told other parents, who have more than one child, that they "wouldn't understand" because they don't have just one child. The parents with multiple children argued that the loss of a child is horrific no matter how many children you have and is not lessened by the presence of other children. Thoughts?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's the way you said it.  Talking points are fine, but context, LC.  Now you're just making it weird by trying to open some sort of discussion.

Mmhodges07

Gone for weeks, and still LCnumbers is an ignorant troll. Now I'm just disgusted by her.

LC122

btimes3 said:

She gets off on trolling, the more sensitive and emotional the topic, the better. If we needed proof, her bizarre "Okay, fine, lets talk about one toddler shooting another instead!" post should cover it.

The topic would be gun safety. And the segue was complicated grief.

Try to keep up, people.

Weljadraak

LC122 said:

She gets off on trolling, the more sensitive and emotional the topic, the better. If we needed proof, her bizarre "Okay, fine, lets talk about one toddler shooting another instead!" post should cover it.

The topic would be gun safety. And the segue was complicated grief. Try to keep up, people.

OK but the transition was hardly smooth.

Weljadraak

btimes3 said:

I regret saying anything because it gave her an opportunity to be a hateful, hurtful troll on a really sensitive subject. I should have known better. Sorry, everyone.

It's not your fault.  She took it too far with her subtle accusations.  

DETrent

btimes3 said:

I regret saying anything because it gave her an opportunity to be a hateful, hurtful troll on a really sensitive subject. I should have known better. Sorry, everyone.

Not your fault in any way. You can't be held responsible for LC's awkward/hateful comments.

LC122

Weljadraak said:

btimes3 said:

I regret saying anything because it gave her an opportunity to be a hateful, hurtful troll on a really sensitive subject. I should have known better. Sorry, everyone.

It's not your fault.  She took it too far with her subtle accusations.  

Subtle accusations?
Get over yourself.
You too, btimes3.
There was nothing hateful or hurtful in my posts.

It's not hard to find people who wouldn't commit suicide because of their child/children. It's also not hard to find people who can't imagine living without their child/children. All I did was present an instance in which these two things would be at odds.

It's not rocket surgery, people. It's brain science.

bkeane619

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

MPsMommy

I haven't been on here much in months and I seriously can't believe LCnumbers has had the balls to continue here.
#thatsall #imdone

huntjul

LC#s just got even more offensive.  Welcome to being the first Bumpie I've actually blocked.