HP Tom Riddle theory - MASSIVE SPOILERS. DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT READ ALL THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

I think that all the horcruxes knew of each other and were still linked to Voldemort's mind. Tom Riddle was an echo of the horcrux left in the diary. He was somewhat sentient but he was already aware of who Harry Potter was, but didn't realize the extent of Harry's power before the horcrux was destroyed in the Chamber.

So the horcruxes were like 7 of Sauron's One Ring.

That's my theory.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

this is an extension of what we're talking about in the CoS thread, @hilarityensued.

[Deleted User] · May 2014

I agree with you that they are all connected since they were made at a later time.

Also, I think that JK Rowling wrote CoS before the entire Horcrux idea was complete and she was able to tie Tom Riddle/the diary in at the end when it was needed.

ToastieSimons · May 2014

Well if each horcrux is a part of Voldemort's soul then each horcrux would know of the ones that had already been created.

harry didn't realize he was a horcrux.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

But he always knew he was connected to Voldemort. He just didn't know how.

[Deleted User] · May 2014

ToastieSimons said:

Well if each horcrux is a part of Voldemort's soul then each horcrux would know of the ones that had already been created.

harry didn't realize he was a horcrux.

But maybe the pain in his scar and the connection he had to V Dog were signs and he just wasn't picked up on it.

thebanich · May 2014

Harry could be quite dim at times.

thebanich · May 2014

I like this theory CG.

[Deleted User] · May 2014

HilarityEnsued said:

DragonBlood13 said:

I agree with you that they are all connected since they were made at a later time.

Also, I think that JK Rowling wrote CoS before the entire Horcrux idea was complete and she was able to tie Tom Riddle/the diary in at the end when it was needed.

This is interesting. She's been very vocal about having basically the entire plot fleshed out before even starting. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of little details that weren't done though.

Ok, maybe that is true, but you have to imagine that her ideas change a bit over time or she chooses to tie in stuff that she had originally not thought to tie in.

There is a huge inaccuracy from the end of the 4th and into the 5th and I looked it up and her explanation is not that impressive.

littlestjerry · May 2014

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

ToastieSimons · May 2014

DragonBlood13 said:

ToastieSimons said:

Well if each horcrux is a part of Voldemort's soul then each horcrux would know of the ones that had already been created.

harry didn't realize he was a horcrux.

But maybe the pain in his scar and the connection he had to V Dog were signs and he just wasn't picked up on it.

very possible. maybe thats when dumbledore realized harry was possibly a horcrux?

[Deleted User] · May 2014

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

DragonBlood13 said:

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.

I think Luna explains this, though. She said something like you can see them if someone close to you has died. Harry couldn't see them before because he didn't believe his parents were really dead. He saw Cedric die and he knew that he was dead and then he could see the Thestrels.

That's the way I read it, at least.

[Deleted User] · May 2014

This is her explanation...

JK Rowling: At the end of Goblet of Fire, we sent Harry home more depressed than he had ever been leaving Hogwarts. Now I knew that the Thestrals were coming and I can prove that because they are in the book that I produced for Comic Relief, Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, these unlucky black winged horses.

However, if Harry had seen them then and we hadn't explained them then, I thought that would be rather a cheat on the reader in that Harry suddenly sees these monsters but we don't go anywhere with them, so to explain to myself I said that you had to have seen the death and allowed it to sink in a little bit before slowly these creatures became solid in front of you, so that's how I am going to sneak past that one.

phunkyphish · May 2014

DragonBlood13 said:

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.

That always bugged me too!

[Deleted User] · May 2014

CinemaGoddess said:

DragonBlood13 said:

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.

I think Luna explains this, though. She said something like you can see them if someone close to you has died. Harry couldn't see them before because he didn't believe his parents were really dead. He saw Cedric die and he knew that he was dead and then he could see the Thestrels.

That's the way I read it, at least.

OH! And he technically saw his mom die.

I'm so rusty at my HP knowledge.

Errr...sorry. i'm doing work and trying to remember all this HP stuff. My brain missed that entire section about the parents. FAIL.

littlestjerry · May 2014

Where do you get the idea that he didn't believe his parents were dead? <----sounds bitchy, but isn't meant to be

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

I mean, he knew his parents were dead, but he didn't want to believe it was true. He thought that maybe they'd come back at some point through an unknown-to-him form of magic.

ToastieSimons · May 2014

DragonBlood13 said:

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.

I could easily see this. It almost feels like she came up with the idea of horcruxes and then was like OOOOOOOOOHHHHH I could have the diary be a horcrux.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

DragonBlood13 said:

CinemaGoddess said:

DragonBlood13 said:

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.

I think Luna explains this, though. She said something like you can see them if someone close to you has died. Harry couldn't see them before because he didn't believe his parents were really dead. He saw Cedric die and he knew that he was dead and then he could see the Thestrels.

That's the way I read it, at least.

OH! And he technically saw his mom die.

I'm so rusty at my HP knowledge.

He did, but he didn't know what was happening at the time. He knew full well what was going on when Cedric died.

ToastieSimons · May 2014

susanb887 said:

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.
This was one of the things that I noticed this time around. He can't see them at the end of term but can at the beginning. I don't buy that BS either.

And with how distraught he was over Cedric's death I don't think that that he didn't realize what was happening and all of a sudden over summer break it clicked.

ToastieSimons · May 2014

CinemaGoddess said:

DragonBlood13 said:

Little Jerry said:

Elaborate please, @DragonBlood13‌!

It's about the Thestrals.

At the end of GoF, the kids get into the carriages to be taken back to the train. Harry can't see them at that point.

At the beginning of OotP he can see them.

Her explanation is that it takes time for the idea of death to set in.

I don't buy it.

I think Luna explains this, though. She said something like you can see them if someone close to you has died. Harry couldn't see them before because he didn't believe his parents were really dead. He saw Cedric die and he knew that he was dead and then he could see the Thestrels.

That's the way I read it, at least.

but he couldn't see them after cedric died. When the students are escorted out the carriages are still horseless. It's not until they come back for the next year that he sees them.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

Did the book explicitly say he couldn't see them at the end of GoF? Or was it just not mentioned?

[Deleted User] · May 2014

CinemaGoddess said:

Did the book explicitly say he couldn't see them at the end of GoF? Or was it just not mentioned?

It's just not mentioned.

ToastieSimons · May 2014

@CinemaGoddess they said "hermione looked at the horseless carriages" and then in OotP it says "the carriages were no longer horseless"

[Deleted User] · May 2014

ToastieSimons said:

@CinemaGoddess they said "hermione looked at the horseless carriages" and then in OotP it says "the carriages were no longer horseless"

Oh right, I mean yeah, it was clear that they were not there at the end of the book and then there at the beginning.

I'm dumb today.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

ToastieSimons said:

@CinemaGoddess they said "hermione looked at the horseless carriages" and then in OotP it says "the carriages were no longer horseless"

Yeah, but Hermione looked at them. Not Harry.

IDK. I give JK a pass for that one.

TheOtherJacobsons · May 2014

I just assumed that Harry was too young to remember his parent's death, so it wasn't until Cedric died that he could suddenly see them.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

No idea.

That's why it's just a theory.

SandyClam · May 2014

Nagini is the same snake; J.K. said so.

wesleycrusher · May 2014

No

SandyClam said:

Nagini is the same snake; J.K. said so.

No that was a rumor. They are not the same snake.

CinemaGoddess · May 2014

GO BACK AND READ WHEN MRS. WEASLEY KILLS BELLATRIX.

IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER.

thebanich · May 2014

Damnit can't find book one

TugboatSheila · May 2014

You guys. I didn't realize that there were other people in the world who could discuss this so passionately. Every point I was going to make has already been made.

My take on the soul and mind connection:

Ok so we all know that by choosing Harry to attempt to kill, Voldemort chose the perfect "enemy" who could vanquish him. He gave him the ability to destroy him. It's all about balance.

Whereas Voldemort's soul is useless, Harry is burdened with so much soul he can't stand it. It's like they completely balance each other out. While Harry's mind is intelligent and strong, it's completely obvious that Voldemort's is much more developed. Again, they sort of balance each other out. Voldemort's magic (which arguably comes from such a highly developed mind) far outstrips Harry's, however, it is Harry's soul which is the thing that can destroy Voldemort. They are connected, it's like Harry's soul is Yin and Voldemort's mind is Yang.

I mean, let's not discount the fact that I've been up since 3:30 because of baby kicks and can't get back to bed.

bitsybubbles7 · May 2014

CinemaGoddess said:

GO BACK AND READ WHEN MRS. WEASLEY KILLS BELLATRIX.

IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER.

"NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!"

Favorite line in the entire series. I was so happy they included it in the movies.

littlestjerry · May 2014

Hmmm....that's gonna bother me @LexiLupin.

sundaesprinkles · May 2014

::lurker busting in::

The horcrux in Harry wouldn't be destroyed by the basilisk bite in COS because Harry wasn't killed. I'm pretty sure when Hermione is reading that book about Horcruxes they find out that the object containing the horcrux has to be destroyed beyond repair.

sundaesprinkles · May 2014

LexiLupin said:

::lurker busting in::

The horcrux in Harry wouldn't be destroyed by the basilisk bite in COS because Harry wasn't killed. I'm pretty sure when Hermione is reading that book about Horcruxes they find out that the object containing the horcrux has to be destroyed beyond repair.
But Harry doesn't have to die, in the end, to be rid of it. Otherwise I would agree.

Duh, I should have thought of that. This just reminds me all over again how confusing the end of book 7 was. I need to re-read.

I'm loving these HP discussions, btw!

TugboatSheila · May 2014

Didn't read all comments because I got too excited. iMO harry was a horcrux but he himself didn't die because at the time of voldemorts curse he was also the true master of the deathly hallows, effectively renderinghim immortal. He had had the cloak for years, won the wands allegiance accidentally from draco and dumbledore left him the stone insisde the ring. And the horcux inside him could die because it didn't belong to him, it was a part of vomdemorts soul.

TugboatSheila · May 2014

Haha my phone auto corrected voldemort to vomdemort. I suck at mobile bumping.

TugboatSheila · May 2014

bookitup said:

bay511 said:

Ooooh. Possession and mastery are two different things, tho. Me likey

But that would mean Harry would be forever the "master" of the Hallows and never able to die, wouldn't it?

Yes but at the end he snapped the elder wand in half meaning he ruined the whole shebang

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HP Tom Riddle theory - MASSIVE SPOILERS. DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT READ ALL THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS

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