Princess Resistence, baby girl gender roles

abundancenow · April 2014

I'm having a girl and finding myself very repelled by any clothing that says "princess" or "diva". I used to love to dress up as a kid in my mom's clothes, but I just feel like there's a drive to push a image on girls too young. I don't want my daughter to be a diva at birth. I guess if her personality develops this way, I will accept it, but I think a lot of the princess stuff is pushed on kids. Everyone tells me girls whine, are hormonal at young ages compared to boys and attract drama. I feel this is driven by culture and not set from birth. I almost want to raise my daughter as a baby exactly as I raised my son, and dress her in the same sleepers with cars and bears, rather than hearts and unicorns. Does anyone else feel conflicted about baby girl gender roles?

SuperTinkerham · April 2014

This is why we were originally team green. I hate princess shit. Hate. We are having a boy, so the point is moot right now. But seriously we weren't telling anyone the gender if it is a girl because I just wanted to delay the pink junk as long as possible. If the kid is old enough to ask for it, then I will give in to a certain extent, but when I get 100% vote, then no princess/diva crap.

chevronseven · April 2014

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Maybe when she's older you could teach her about real life princesses and that they actually have political responsibilities and make a difference, not just wear pretty clothes and go to balls. I definitely don't like Diva though, that has a pretty clearly negative connotation. I think you would be totally fine to reuse the same clothes from your son, but if you wanted to you could find some gender specific stuff that doesn't necessarily push the "drama queen" stereotype. Maybe ballerinas or butterflies? (Butterflies could even encourage an interest in science!)

INmommy871278 · April 2014

I don't push gender roles, but putting a onesie on her that says princess isn't going to define her. I have a few onesies that say daddy's little princess or something along those lines, but I'm not going to treat her differently just because her onesie says princess. DS wears shirts with trucks and cars on them, but he has a baby doll and likes to play with his cousins princess wand. He also likes riding in the backhoe with his papaw and riding his pedal tractor. Society places gender roles on kids, as the parent you have the choice to give your kids the toys and clothes you want while they form their own thoughts of things.

SuperTinkerham · April 2014

The first question I asked mister when we found out it was a boy, " do you promise to still play tea party if that's what he wants?" Mister affirmed he will happily play tea party with our son.

chevronseven · April 2014

SuperTinkerham said:
The first question I asked mister when we found out it was a boy, " do you promise to still play tea party if that's what he wants?" Mister affirmed he will happily play tea party with our son.

That reminds me, I read a story about a lady who brought her son to a prince and Princess dress up birthday party and the son wanted to be a Princess. So she let him, dress and hair and all, and he loved it, but the other moms were total bitches about it. I asked DH if he'd let our son do that and he said he sees no reason not to let the kid wear what he wants! I was pleased. Neither of our families will be so progressive about it, so it's nice to know we'll be a united front.

mcvgal · April 2014

I agree that it does get pushed on girls early on. 2 weeks ago we did a 5k called the Diva Dash and my niece and best friend's daughter (both 10) were asked what a Diva was. They said someone who likes clothes and can be a little bossy. During the 5K we asked random strangers what a Diva meant to them. Thankfully the gave better answers - being confident, a good friend, stands up for what she believes.. So after the 5k these 2 little girls had a totally different opinion.

I think it's out responsibility to teach out kids (not just girls) that they don't have to stick to a specific societal role.

cookieinva · April 2014

I don't have daughters, but it isn't strictly a "girl" problem. My son loves Disney princesses, but they only make girl princess undies, princess clothing in pink, etc. I am happy for him to like what he likes. But he is in preschool and I am not about to send him to school in "girl" clothes because I don't want to see him get made fun of or told those are only for girls, especially at such a young age. It is so much easier when they are younger to exert some control but as they get into school they get exposed to things you can't control. I should add that it isn't as if DS asking for things and getting told no but that I stick to getting him princess movies or coloring books, not apparel.

In your situation I would say do what you want, while you can, because at some point you may not have as much say or influence. And that should be ok, right? Like if she really develops to love cars and trucks you'd support that. So if she develops to really love princesses, shouldn't you support that too even if it isn't your preference? We just go with exposing him to anything age appropriate and letting him like what he wants for the most part. And in some ways it is easier with girls than with boys. I think in today's society it is more readily accepted if, say, a girl loves superheroes than if a boy loves, say, princesses or something. Not saying girls are easy but rather that there can be more of a girls can do/like/be anything attitude than the same for boys sometimes.

Good news is you will probably overthink it way more than your daughter (or son) ever does.

abundancenow · April 2014

I bought some stuff that is pink and even a few girl style rompers, but I'm rolling my eyes at the majority of stuff. I know I've bought stuff for little girls that has princess imagery because that's what they said their children were in to.
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I don't know how to respond if I get something I feel is overly sexualized or promotes an image I feel opposed to. Of course I will be grateful for any gift for my child, but even leopard print has been a turn off to me because I think of a sex kitten image.

SuperTinkerham · April 2014

abundancenow said:

I bought some stuff that is pink and even a few girl style rompers, but I'm rolling my eyes at the majority of stuff. I know I've bought stuff for little girls that has princess imagery because that's what they said their children were in to.
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I don't know how to respond if I get something I feel is overly sexualized or promotes an image I feel opposed to. Of course I will be grateful for any gift for my child, but even leopard print has been a turn off to me because I think of a sex kitten image.

I told people flat out I will trash anything that says diva, princess, or was itchy. Just like I would trash something if I think it is inappropriate for a boy. I hate stuff like "mommy's little heartbreaker". Mister and I get the final say so.

Ylvelill · April 2014

I am staying away from pink for my girl, when she is old enough to ask for it then she can have it... Maybe /:)

We are in general going fairly gender neutral with the twins so they can wear each other's stuff even if they are boy/girl.

AKB090609 · April 2014

We solved this problem by telling our mothers that we don't like writing on clothing if it isn't sports teams or vacation related. In nearly 2 years we've only received one item a with words and it was a 'kiss me I'm Irish' shirt.

As far as pink, she wears it just like every other color I don't have the time or energy to go out of my way to avoid a color in her wardrobe, if the item is cute and well made that is really all I'm concerned about.

abundancenow · April 2014

@e_cruiz good point. Tell me about the DivaDash, I don't know what was that is support of. I do associate 'diva' with a Mariah Carey, high maintenance image, and perhaps it's my negative interpretation that could be broadened.

abundancenow · April 2014

@cookieinva I agree it's not just a girl issue, but seems to be pushing my buttons more now that I'm having a daughter. My son wanted a my little pony train set when he was given the choice to pick out a toy for a reward. My husband rolled his eyes when he saw it. My son also kept getting in to my face powder make up, so I finally just bought him his own to play with, again DH was a bit conflicted, but I see it as play and not to be limited. Having a daughter is really pushing me to explore my personal views on what I think female qualities are important to teach my daughter.

abundancenow · April 2014

@SuperTinkerham I did not want to buy that type of stuff for my son either, but think I did get a heartbreaker onesie. I love that you can be so assertive to those around you and say you'll trash that kind of stuff so don't bother. I don't feel that comfortable with DHs family to say it so boldly, but I hope to find a subtle way to express similar feelings. My family wouldn't buy that type of stuff anyway.

yurmom · April 2014

I don't care for the princess/diva clothing partially because most of it looks gaudy as hell. When it comes to toys and dressing up and such I'm team do whatever makes the kid happy. If she really wants the pink and purple mega blocks then cool.

SuperTinkerham · April 2014

I'm kind of an inconsiderate asshole when it comes to other people sometimes. Lol. My ILs are lovely people, but are from east Texas and have some very defined and conservative ideas. I'm much more free spirited. If this boy wants to wear a dress, IDGAF. I just want him to be happy and trust in himself.

abundancenow · April 2014

Ylvelill said:

I am staying away from pink for my girl, when she is old enough to ask for it then she can have it... Maybe /:) We are in general going fairly gender neutral with the twins so they can wear each other's stuff even if they are boy/girl.

I like this. And oddly just as much as I don't want to over sexualize my daughter, I still have feelings of wanting her to be distinguished as a girl and not mistaken as a boy. I recently went out with my sister and her son whose a few months old and a woman said 'what a beautiful girl' and I so felt the need to correct her. But, neither my sister or I did, we just left the compliment, he is a beautiful baby.

gallifreygirl · April 2014

I have no problem with people buying princess stuff for my daughter, as long as that Princess happens to be Wonder Woman or Princess Leia and I don't think I would mind one bit if she wanted to be Princess Iron Man or Princess Captain America or Princess Han Solo ect...or the non princess versions of the same people. For me I don't have a problem with the word itself, as long as my daughter understands that Princesses can be just as badass and slay just as many dragons as Princes can.

I mean I played sword wielding princesses when I was a kid and I don't think it damaged me too much.

jamboree jess · April 2014

my parents put me in all sorts of princess-y clothes as a baby/toddler. My mom even had me in pageants. However, I just always knew those things weren't for me? When I was little I only ever wanted to play with dinosaur toys and cars. I had zero interest in dolls or dressing up or tea parties. I do remember them still trying to get me into "girly" things, but whenever they let me pick out my own clothes, they would always be from the boys department. I'd only be forced into dresses for holidays.

I guess I'm glad my parents eventually let me grow into my own person.

DH was over-the-moon when he found out we were having a boy, but our nursery is still gender neutral, I know DH wants him to play hockey and do boy stuff, but I'm hoping that it won't be an issue if LO isn't into sports and junk.

ksuRN09 · April 2014

I'm in agreement with whoever said that putting a onesie on a baby girl that says princess or diva isn't going to define them. It's up to us as parents to make sure our daughters grow up to be strong individuals. I think the color pink and the words diva and princess have such a negative connotations because we make them. If we acted like the words diva and princess and the color pink were NBD (because really, they aren't) then that's how our daughters would view them. Society may eventually have an influence on little girls but we get to influence them first.

I have lots of pink for my daughter but she has a lot of other colors to wear, too. I even have some boy onesies from a friend and she'll wear those as well. If she gets older and says she doesn't like pink and wants to wear cars and play with monster trucks then go for it, girl. I don't view putting pink on my baby girl is stunting her individuality because 1. She's a baby and doesn't really care and 2. We're going to raise her to make her own choices and be a strong woman no matter what color she's wearing.

mcvgal · April 2014

@abundancenow The Diva Dash is a 5K that is for women only. They do have a princess run where 10 and under can do a 1 mile run instead of the 5K. The run is done in several cities and benefit various charities. The one in Kansas City has alway benefits the organization Girls on the Run. I will say the princess run gives the appearance if the stereotypical "princess" term. The girls get a tiara, sash and a race medal. But I really like that it's a good mixed crowd. You get all athletic abilities and some people even walk it.

lindslalala · April 2014

I think it's important to realize that what we envision for our girls may not be reality. Would I be disappointed if she was more into dance than sports? Yes, because I've never pictured that and it's not where my interests lie. But I would adapt, get over it and support her interests even if they don't match my own. However, when they are babies I see nothing wrong with dressing them to your taste and waiting to see what their preferences are as they develop them. Pink and princess is not my thing so I get where you are coming from.

yurmom · April 2014

Can I just say I never had a Barbie Dream House as a child and I still want one? Do they still make it? Off to Google...

ETA: So they do but I feel like they looked a lot cooler when we were kids?

AutumnBonfire · April 2014

I think the diva/princess stuff is pretty tacky so I won't be buying it if I have a girl. If this baby is a girl, she'll be wearing a lot of DS's hand-me-downs, but I'll probably buy "girl" things too. I think kids should be allowed to be kids and they don't need my anti-gender role agenda pushed on them either. Whatever this baby is into when he/she gets older, I'll go with it. DS loves stereotypical boy things. His favorite things are cars and balls. I did also see him carrying around a doll at daycare and he likes his stuffed animals at home.

ksuRN09 · April 2014

dlsexton said:
Can I just say I never had a Barbie Dream House as a child and I still want one? Do they still make it? Off to Google...

ETA: So they do but I feel like they looked a lot cooler when we were kids?

They were definitely cooler when we were kids. I was pretty partial to my fisher price doll house though. I was just jealous it didn't have an elevator like Barbie's house. Lol

abundancenow · April 2014

AutumnBonfire said:

I think the diva/princess stuff is pretty tacky so I won't be buying it if I have a girl. If this baby is a girl, she'll be wearing a lot of DS's hand-me-downs, but I'll probably buy "girl" things too. I think kids should be allowed to be kids and they don't need my anti-gender role agenda pushed on them either. Whatever this baby is into when he/she gets older, I'll go with it. DS loves stereotypical boy things. His favorite things are cars and balls. I did also see him carrying around a doll at daycare and he likes his stuffed animals at home.

I think this is very useful for me to understand why I feel conflicted because I don't want to push an anti gender role agenda. And like pp mentioned, I'm over thinking this for sure.

rboisvert · April 2014

I teach preschool and have some adorable pictures in the classroom of everyone wearing our mermaid dress up costume because it's fun to have fins the boys grab that thing just as often as the girls. Our girl dress up stuff just seems to be more fun.

We've tried really hard at home to keep the princess stuff out, and I think succeeded, I can't think of anything with a princess on it. But she loves dresses and pink, we just got pink and purple nail polish today. She also loves her "daddy's Sox" Red Sox stuff and is wearing her beloved Wally shirt today as they run errands. I think there's plenty out there that is feminine without being obnoxious and you can weed stuff pretty easily without it becoming a war on pink so to speak. I did draw then line in the sand with anything on the butt past about 12 months. Cute bear on a 3 month sleeper sure, words on my 3 year old's butt, nope.

ksuRN09 · April 2014

rboisvert said:
I teach preschool and have some adorable pictures in the classroom of everyone wearing our mermaid dress up costume because it's fun to have fins the boys grab that thing just as often as the girls. Our girl dress up stuff just seems to be more fun.

We've tried really hard at home to keep the princess stuff out, and I think succeeded, I can't think of anything with a princess on it. But she loves dresses and pink, we just got pink and purple nail polish today. She also loves her "daddy's Sox" Red Sox stuff and is wearing her beloved Wally shirt today as they run errands. I think there's plenty out there that is feminine without being obnoxious and you can weed stuff pretty easily without it becoming a war on pink so to speak. I did draw then line in the sand with anything on the butt past about 12 months. Cute bear on a 3 month sleeper sure, words on my 3 year old's butt, nope.

That's a really good point and something I never thought of. Although diva and princess don't bother me, having them written across my toddler's butt is a different story altogether and I'm not a fan.

alyssa719 · April 2014

My mom *refused* to let me have barbie dolls, frilly dresses, etc. as a child so sometimes I worry that I'm overcompensating for that with this baby... She has a lot of pink and purple and flowery items, and while I'm not a fan of disney princesses, I want a tiara photo prop for newborn pics. I'm also making her a wonder woman onesie.

On the other hand, I was annoyed with lego when they came out with the "friends" line, because they're not as amusing, just to have things be pink and purple? I want the original legos, mega blocks, etc. in the original colors.

I feel like pushing either way is a little dumb. Saying "omg, they can *never ever ever* have princess crap is just as ridiculous as saying that's all they can ever have. It's like all the boy stuff *having* to be cars or sports. Either way, IMO, it's a little off balance. When ours is making decisions for herself, I will full support wanting to play with whatever toys, until then, I am picking the room and picking the clothes and I'll go with what I like. Even if it's (obviously) glitter and unicorns.

ETA: I'm much much much more horrified about daisy duke shorts, bikinis, and PINK/Juicy written across her butt.

seells · April 2014

DD is one of the girliest kids around. She LOOOOVES pink, has more shoes and clothes then any 3 year old should, and dressing up barbies is one of her favorite games.

But that's not all of who she is. She likes to pretend she's a super hero or a Jedi just as much as a princess. The other day she was "princess doctor". But in her world everyone else gets to be princesses too. She also likes to "kick butt" a la Mulan.

She likes to collect comic books and help clean and cook. She's a diverse individual. If she seems to gravitate to more traditionally feminine gender "roles" that alright. We're raising her to be a smart, strong, kind, independent young lady. If she chooses to do that in heals and a dress well more power to her!

ghostof5letters · April 2014

I raised my daughter about 80% gender neutral for the first two years of her life. Now she's decided she loves dresses, especially silky nightgown types. We roll with it, but still buy things gender neutral when available (ie. her bicycle is yellow and black).

I rarely see clothes like this at the stores I shop in. Until the Disney Princess trend kicks in (after 2 for us) ridiculous clothing like you're describing was easy to avoid and the minority in the options. Shop somewhere else.

pfeilele · April 2014

On the flip side, I'm trying so hard to raise a little boy who knows it's okay to cry, have feelings, and be kind. I wouldn't want ANY of my children to be so into themselves that they don't see the bigger picture. I don't want a princess or a macho man.

If this baby is a girl, she won't be dressed in princess clothes, but that's not my style anyways. She'll wear "girly" stuff in all sorts of colors, but only until she tells me otherwise. I think teaching your child to think about others outweighs wearing and playing with princess stuff.

iris427 · April 2014

I used to feel that way, but now I have a princess-obsessed 5 year old and I just don't really care anymore. It's pretty much at the bottom of my list about things to worry about as a parent. I don't think a little bit of dress up/make believe is going to hurt her, any more than I worry that my son will grow up to rape and pillage just because he likes to play pirates.

I also think there's something sexist about trying to discourage girls from liking feminine things--doesn't that actually kind of reinforce that female is the inferior gender?

ghostof5letters · April 2014

iris427 said:

I used to feel that way, but now I have a princess-obsessed 5 year old and I just don't really care anymore. It's pretty much at the bottom of my list about things to worry about as a parent. I don't think a little bit of dress up/make believe is going to hurt her, any more than I worry that my son will grow up to rape and pillage just because he likes to play pirates.

I also think there's something sexist about trying to discourage girls from liking feminine things--doesn't that actually kind of reinforce that female is the inferior gender?

ghostof5letters · April 2014

ghostof5letters said:

I raised my daughter about 80% gender neutral for the first two years of her life. Now she's decided she loves dresses, especially silky nightgown types. We roll with it, but still buy things gender neutral when available (ie. her bicycle is yellow and black).

I rarely see clothes like this at the stores I shop in. Until the Disney Princess trend kicks in (after 2 for us) ridiculous clothing like you're describing was easy to avoid and the minority in the options. Shop somewhere else.

Just to prove my theory, here is Old Navy's 0-3 month dresses (I went as girly as possible here)

ghostof5letters · April 2014

Here is GAP

ghostof5letters · April 2014

Honestly, I think boys have it a lot worse when it comes to gender roles. God forbid they want to be a princess for Halloween or anything like that. Girls can be Spiderman without anyone batting an eyelash, but a boy wants to be Ariel and he'll be quickly corrected by other kids, parents, grandparents and strangers.

zellatrix · April 2014

Not having a girl, but if I were, I prefer onesies and outfits without words at all. And without cartoony type animals or busy patterns of sports balls for my son. I like classic looking colors only clothes. A plain pink onesie would be better to me than a white onesie with princess on it.

abundancenow · April 2014

@alyssa719 said " I'm much much much more horrified about daisy duke shorts, bikinis, and PINK/Juicy written across her butt."
I think this is a big factor in my resistance. I work with teens and seeing the options of clothes available shocks me. Its hard to explain to teens that just because that's they style out there, doesn't mean you should wear it. The button up shirts that expose cleavage, the short shorts, the leggings as pants.
I'm conservative dressing myself and have a hard time finding clothes that I feel aren't too sexy.

michellexm · April 2014

I think my rule for my daughter as a young girl will be this: if I wouldn't wear it because I think it's trashy or inappropriate, she's not going to wear it either.

I don't have a problem with the color pink so much as the cheap and tacky look of so many girl clothes. Princess and Diva writing on outfits are definitely out, alongside leopard print. Not to be a hater (and sorry if you love those types of outfits), but that stuff just looks really low class to me.

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