Circumcision?

ball.and.chain · February 2014

This just came up on another board I am active on and I thought I'd ask about it here as well. As a lesbian who is having a boy, I feel a little out of my depth on this one, so I'd particularly be interested in your husband's/male partner's opinions if you have discussed it with them. If you don't mind sharing, what did you decide for your boy/potential boy, and why?

I haven't done a lot of research into this yet, but my gut impulse is not to do it. My wife, on the other hand, feels very strongly that we should.

I know some people have very strong feelings about this one way or the other so I hope this post does not generate any hostility. I am just very curious about what others have decided and how they've arrived at that decision.

ZAngel · February 2014

I read through a lot of the research myself but ultimately left the decision up to my husband. DH is choosing to have our baby circumcised but I'm sure the fact that he's circumcised influenced his decision. I came to the conclusion that circumcision is done mainly for cosmetic or religious reasons. However, a lot of the research shows there are hygiene benefits to getting circumcised. I believe the same results can be accomplished by making sure the area stays clean... but this can be more difficult as the boy gets older and clean himself. I have an older son (different father) that I didn't have circumcised and he had some minor issues with urinary tract infections growing up. However, we aren't 100% sure it was related to not being circumcised. I really think the decision comes down to personal preference seeing as there are no major arguments for or against (that I've found).

ball.and.chain · February 2014

eme520 said:
The whispering behind the scenes is that this statement in favor was to help get insurance companies to cover the cost of the procedure because they often don't. This is all just speculation, but I can understand the theory.

I read the same thing and wondered about the insurance angle!

mrsbtobe20122 · February 2014

I have to assist in circumcisions all the time. Def not my favorite thing to do, and have seen a few botched jobs.

There is no medical necessity or benefit to having it done. It's strictly cosmetic per the current AAP guidelines. I see no reason to inflict pain on my precious newborn for no reason. Especially when it can effect establishing our breast feeding regime.

I wouldn't put implants in my baby girl because she might look funny with small breasts in the locker room either.

As far as cleanliness goes... Teach your kid to wash his part and you'll be fine.

Watch a few on YouTube.

Just my two cents.

ksulli · February 2014

Eme520 is all over the medical info on it, and what I read pretty much was the same- there are some benefits, there are some risks, it pretty much comes down to your preference. I discussed it with my OB on Friday and she leans towards doing it based on her discussions with uriologists. It cuts the risk of UTIs (low level of occurrence in the healthy male population, but unpleasant should it occur to your little guy), cuts the risk of certain STIs (as do condoms) including the risk of transmission to a female partner. Plus, should he grow up to marry a Jewish woman & convert, he's have to do it later in life which has it's own host of risks.

between what I've read, what my OB has to say, and DH's preference to do it, we will if this one's a boy.

Avion22 · February 2014

H and I both read the literature, and neither of us had any strong feelings one way or the other. I decided to leave the decision to him, and after thinking about it he wants to have LO circumcised. I'm fine with this decision.

@mrsbtobe20122, I'm curious about what you said about it affecting our breast feeding regime. I hadn't read this anywhere -- can you explain?

mrsbtobe20122 · February 2014

Avion22 said:

H and I both read the literature, and neither of us had any strong feelings one way or the other. I decided to leave the decision to him, and after thinking about it he wants to have LO circumcised. I'm fine with this decision.

@mrsbtobe20122, I'm curious about what you said about it affecting our breast feeding regime. I hadn't read this anywhere -- can you explain?

When it's done in the hospital it's usually day one or two of life. At that point it can be very difficult to wake and feed your baby to begin with. The sucrose that is given for pain management during the procedure further raises their blood sugar and they tend to zonk out for 3-6 hours after the procedure (from maintaining their sugars and being under stress).

Then, they wake up, and are in pain because the lidocaine has then worn off and they have a very painful penis with all those nerve endings having a fresh wound. All this leads to difficulty feeding when they should be cluster feeding at this point every 1.5-3 hours.

meli1025 · February 2014

My DH and I chose not to circ DS, even though DH is circ'd. We won't be circumcising this baby either. Our ped said there are plenty of arguments for both sides, but it really isn't medically necessary to circumcise. We've never had any issues with DS and it's very easy to care for. Don't force retraction and only clean what you can see. When they get older they will be able to pull it back and care for it properly, just like girls clean inside all of our "grooves" down there without a problem. Honestly though, I wasn't sure what we were going to do until our son was born. My OB recommended against circumcision and once I saw his adorable little body I couldn't imagine sending him in to be cut when he was only a few days old. The nurses all told me how happy they were with our decision and that they all hate having to witness those procedures. I feel good about it, but it is completely personal and I don't judge anyone who chooses to circ.

2redtulips · February 2014

I haven't done much research yet, either, and we haven't discussed this issue yet...

But I have read that circumcision can impact sexual pleasure for a man later in life. Of course, a man who had been circumsized as an infant would never know any different, so I am not sure how researchers have come to that conclusion.

I do think it's a personal choice.

mrsbtobe20122 · February 2014

ksulli said:

Eme520 is all over the medical info on it, and what I read pretty much was the same- there are some benefits, there are some risks, it pretty much comes down to your preference. I discussed it with my OB on Friday and she leans towards doing it based on her discussions with uriologists. It cuts the risk of UTIs (low level of occurrence in the healthy male population, but unpleasant should it occur to your little guy), cuts the risk of certain STIs (as do condoms) including the risk of transmission to a female partner. Plus, should he grow up to marry a Jewish woman & convert, he's have to do it later in life which has it's own host of risks.

between what I've read, what my OB has to say, and DH's preference to do it, we will if this one's a boy.

That seems like quite a stretch. What if he marries someone who doesn't believe in circs? He can't grow his foreskin back...

mrsbtobe20122 · February 2014

2redtulips said:

I haven't done much research yet, either, and we haven't discussed this issue yet... But I have read that circumcision can impact sexual pleasure for a man later in life. Of course, a man who had been circumsized as an infant would never know any different, so I am not sure how researchers have come to that conclusion. I do think it's a personal choice.

Because they have fewer nerve endings because they are removed. Personally, I've been with both...and feel uncirced guys do have much more sensitive parts and tend to enjoy it more.

ball.and.chain · February 2014

This is all really helpful to read. I have to say I was hoping I would come down on the pro-circ side so that I would not have to negotiate with my wife over this, but I am feeling increasingly anti-circ (at least for my own kids) so I guess we'll have to have some discussions!

ksulli · February 2014

mrsbtobe20122 said:

ksulli said:

Eme520 is all over the medical info on it, and what I read pretty much was the same- there are some benefits, there are some risks, it pretty much comes down to your preference. I discussed it with my OB on Friday and she leans towards doing it based on her discussions with uriologists. It cuts the risk of UTIs (low level of occurrence in the healthy male population, but unpleasant should it occur to your little guy), cuts the risk of certain STIs (as do condoms) including the risk of transmission to a female partner. Plus, should he grow up to marry a Jewish woman & convert, he's have to do it later in life which has it's own host of risks.

between what I've read, what my OB has to say, and DH's preference to do it, we will if this one's a boy.

That seems like quite a stretch. What if he marries someone who doesn't believe in circs? He can't grow his foreskin back...

My OBs brother actually did convert & have it done at 28. And I live in a heavily Jewish area. Not that it's a huge argument for it by any means. And I'm not sure what religion believes so strongly against that it could be an issue.

2redtulips · February 2014

I do have a friend who chose to be circumsized as an adult - well into his 40s. I'd love to ask him about it, but it would be too weird.

My DH might have talked to him about it, though, so I will ask him.

mrsbtobe20122 · February 2014

2redtulips said:

I do have a friend who chose to be circumsized as an adult - well into his 40s. I'd love to ask him about it, but it would be too weird. My DH might have talked to him about it, though, so I will ask him.

Do it. I'm very interested.

ball.and.chain · February 2014

mrsbtobe20122 said:

2redtulips said:

I do have a friend who chose to be circumsized as an adult - well into his 40s. I'd love to ask him about it, but it would be too weird. My DH might have talked to him about it, though, so I will ask him.

Do it. I'm very interested.

I'm curious too! Ask DH!

mrsbtobe20122 · February 2014

Notchotchke said:

It is an extremely personal decision and one that should be driven by communication between partners and research. When someone compares it to breast augmentation of an infant it immediately invalidates their argument and sounds like hysterical propaganda. With that said if this LO is a boy I will be leaving him intact but would never argue such nonsense as to compare circumsizing to breast augmentation.
OP, do your research and come to best decision for you and your partner. Hear her out and ensure she hears you out and come up with a pros and cons list. Whatever you choose, it will be right for your family.

Really? When 90% of the parents say their reasoning is they don't want their kids to be teased in the locker room and/or to "look like dad" that makes it cosmetic only---very much like a breast augmentation or a nose job.

Religious and medical reasons are completely different and very much respected in my book.

mrsbtobe20122 · February 2014

eme520 said:

Oversharing alert....

My H is not circumcised and the comments he got in the locker room were NOT about his extra foreskin

LOL @eme520

4legsRbest · February 2014

I am one of those who is passionate about this topic and I think it can be argued that RIC is child abuse and is most definitely a form of mutilation. Flame me all you like. There was no question that my son would be left in tact. His penis, his choice. That is really the only reason anyone needs to not circumcise.

We don't remove breasts to prevent breast cancer, why would you cut functioning skin off because of a possible UTI? Which circumcised men can still get, btw. There is no medical reason to support RIC.

toomanycats1 · February 2014

::Lurking:: (on iPad) My son is 6.5 and we didn't circumcise him. The rate of newborn circ in Canada is declining, and isn't even covered by most provincial health programs... meaning it is considered a cosmetic procedure and not deemed necessary. In cases of recurrent infection, it is covered however. DS has had no problems at all with his penis (no UTIs,etc) and it doesn't require any extra maintenance to clean it. They don't recommend pulling the foreskin back when they are little, so really, it does take care of itself. Makes sense when you consider that vaginas do better when left alone as well. I work scheduling surgeries and we see VERY few circumcisions at our facility. We perform more elective Vasectomy reversals than we do circumcisions, so I would assume there isn't a large number of men deciding to have Circs done as an adult. When I researched prior to having DS, my doctor told me that the pain is the same whether they are little or not. I decided not to make the decision for DS. If he wants it done later in life then I'll stand by him.... It will hurt just as much, and he'll be old enough to understand. At least he can have a general anesthetic and better painkillers if needed then too. I believe in letting him make decisions with his own body. The same would go for any cosmetic procedure (braces, outstanding ears, mole removal, etc).

Junebug060609 · February 2014

Ultimately, OP, this is a very personal decision. Do your research, talk with your wife, and come to à decision you are both ok with.

FWIW, Both my DH and DS are intact and neither has had issues with UTIs.

Xath · February 2014

I did some research but didn't find anything overwhelmingly for or against it (aside from heavily biased sites on both sides), so I left it up to my H. We got DS1 circumcised, and we'll do it again with DS2.

Anecdotally, my son didn't seem to be bothered by the procedure, before or after. It did not influence his ability to BF, in fact he tried to eat so much in the hospital that the doctors recommended introducing a pacifier then and there so that he didn't gorge himself into throwing up. (He wanted to eat every 30 minutes, and was getting 1-2oz per feeding in the hospital).

@mrstobe20122 I'd like to see some research for the statistics you're throwing about. It doesn't bother me whether people chose to circ or not, but it does bother me when people throw out highly inflammatory statistical percentages and then don't back it up with facts.

mdarmetko · February 2014

We've discussed it and will not be having a circumcision if we are having a boy. On one hand, the decision was easy bc my H isn't circumcised (he is European). On the other hand, I was raised in the Jewish faith (H and I are agnostic) and my parents will probably have strong feelings on it. My mom's argument will be "it's not clean", which she is pretty uneducated about so I will have to come with facts for her. There are also religious reasons why, but I don't think she even really knows them honestly (fake Jews

). It's really an American thing these days as any non-American man I know is not circumcised. My best friend just had a boy in October and despite her H being circumcised, they saw no reason to circumcising their son. My brother and SIL have also decided not to circumcise if they have a boy (they have 2 girls and will be having a 3rd soon), and are eager for us to break my parents into the idea if we have a boy.

lotus88 · February 2014

DH wants him circumcised probably because he is. I was initially against it. The arguments on both sides sound pretty good, but why basically mutilate my baby.

Two things swayed me. The first I heard was from several nurse friends talking about poor hygiene and complications related to having the foreskin in elderly patients. Several nurses with very similar stories. The second was either from here or a fb group. someone said their brother's british gf never gave much head until hercircumcised brother because if the freshness factor. A friend of mine who had a boyfriend who wasn't said by noon a shower was required for any intimate time.

My mom said my dad was circumcised, but not very well. As in he basically isn't. She says that he has never had problems, but then he is very clean. It's not unusual for him to take two showers a day. Maybe that's part of it.

ksyknelvr73 · February 2014

Lots of people have already weighed in....but I guess I will too. DS was circumcised, and this baby will be too. I left the decision up to DH.

For DS, getting it done did not affect breastfeeding whatsoever. He had it done the day after he was born, and has never had any issues.

2redtulips · February 2014

Asked DH. He doesn't know why our friend did it, either.

Mustardseed2007 · February 2014

We also circumcised DS b/c I really don't know a male that isn't and I didn't think much about it. I guess in my area and my circle of friends foregoing circumcision is not really something people are doing, at least not en masse. DH is circumcised as well and also didn't question it, though we had a very brief discussion where I informed him that it was becoming a controversial thing. But DH honestly didn't know that it was beginning to be a thing people were not doing or considering not doing until I told him. He still felt like we should do it so we did.

mdarmetko · February 2014

Like I said, my H is not circumcised and he's never had an issue with "freshness". Sound like an excuse not to give head to me

. You just need to teach the boy how to clean it. I've dated other men who were not circumcised and never had the issue. My H also said he's never had a health issues due to being uncircumcised such as an infection. And in terms of the fold of an uncircumcised penis, what's the difference in that and the folds in a vagina?

KikiCohen · February 2014

*lurking*

I left this decision up to DH b/c he obviously has the parts and I felt he was more "qualified" to make the decision. We weren't going to circumcise any boys for a number of reasons, but mainly b/c DH isn't circumcised. In our case, DS was born with hypospadias (a birth defect where the urethra is too short and comes out somewhere other than the head of the penis) and part of the repair requires the foreskin as almost a skin graph, so he had to be circumcised during that procedure.

Good luck with your decision!

PerkyErky · February 2014

As others have said, it is a personal decision. We are circumcising, but we are Jewish as well. Obviously DH is circumcised as he is Jewish. DS1 would have been circumcised shortly after birth, except he also had hypospadias like kikicohen's son, so he was circumcised when they performed the repair at 6 months. We are having another boy, and again for religious reasons, he will also be circumcised. DH's brother had hyposapdias, so it could possibly happen again with this little guy too.

Definitely do you research and make the best decision for you and your family. You can find horror stories on both sides of the argument, but ultimately either decision you make will be fine.

[Deleted User] · February 2014

I primarily left the decision to DH. If he had had a good reason not to do it, I would have respected that. However, he was adamant we have DS circ'd.

One other important factor to me was seeing what happened with my elderly grandfather when he could no longer be responsible for his own hygiene. I'd heard similar stories of elderly men dealing with infection and having to be circ'd late in life which also added a check in the pro-circ column for me.

ball.and.chain · February 2014

Qfrump said:

I think you will be fine either way, ball.and.chain. Talk to your pediatrician about it. Oh shit, we need to find pediatricians!!!

I was just thinking that today. Add it to the list...
:-SS

MollySm · February 2014

H isn't circumcised. We aren't having a boy, but if we were to we wouldn't get him circumcised. We don't have any cultural reason to do it. We don't see a need to change something that's part of a boy. One of H's reasons is that as far as sex goes that circumcising reduces sexual pleasure and sexual performance. There is little or no medical benefit to circumcising. If a future boy wanted to make that decision for himself at some point, that's fine by me, but I won't do it for him.

[Deleted User] · February 2014

MollySm said:

H isn't circumcised. We aren't having a boy, but if we were to we wouldn't get him circumcised. We don't have any cultural reason to do it. We don't see a need to change something that's part of a boy. One of H's reasons is that as far as sex goes that circumcising reduces sexual pleasure and sexual performance. There is little or no medical benefit to circumcising. If a future boy wanted to make that decision for himself at some point, that's fine by me, but I won't do it for him.

I'm not arguing as I don't have a penis myself, but if he's not circ'd, how does he know this?

Serenla · February 2014

So just to beat a dead horse, it is really up to you ball.and.chain

.
When we found out that we were having a little boy I was on the fence and dh wanted to get him circumcised. At first I was ok with it but as I thought more about it, it just felt wrong to me somehow. I brought up some research to DH and we had a long talk about it. In the end he saw how I still felt uncomfortable doing it so he agreed to not have Finn circumcised. In the end I will still speak to my pediatrician about it but it is still a no right now.

Also can I say how much I hate the use of the word intact? It always makes me feel like my husband was apparently mutilated and I just don't see it that way.

Skeemer · February 2014

This might not help at all but I talked about it with DH & he really wanted DS2 to be circ'd at birth. DH has known 2 or 3 guys who had to have it done for medical reasons older in life & they went through a lot of pain. He just wanted to have DS2's done while he couldn't remember it in the event he may need it done for medical reasons someday. If this LO is a boy then he will also be circ'd.

Good luck!

ETA: Spellz

JAW2 · February 2014

Seems like there is a little unnecessary arguing going on here but my 2 cents is that I have a husband who is not and a son who is. My husband said he wish he would have because of cleaning reasons. I think it was just an era thing as to why his parents didn't cir him. It can be more difficult to clean is what he said. It had absolutely nothing to do with a cosmetic thing for us (so I don't feel like I was mutilating my child.. that's rather out there). It was hard for me because I feel like it would hurt but we had it done in the hospital but they said that it's not that bad. They tell you how to take care of it to prevent any issues or hurting them. I was also strictly a breastfeeding mother and had no issues with my son nursing while in the hospital or afterwards so I don't believe that is something to be concerned about either. He was a little more sleepy but that's about all they do initially

Some babies just don't latch on or take to nursing like other babies do.

This is a personal thing and no one will be able to tell you a right or wrong way to go.

GL

amwangel · February 2014

You have lots of great advice and opinions here, so I just wanted to commiserate and say this was one of the hardest decisions for us!

I always told myself I wouldn't talk about my son's genitalia, but here goes...

Since every medical professional (and the research) we talked to was pretty ambivalent either way, for us our biggest concern was not that he look like my husband (sorry, but I always find that such an odd way to choose! My boobs are way smaller than my moms and I don't care, why should dads and sons have matching penises?), but that he would be teased about not being circumcised since it's so common here in the midwest.

Ultimately, though, we decided that wasn't a good enough reason *for us* to cut a little part of his body off, so he's not circumcised. (I should also add that my husband is a psychologist, so he was particularly cautious about early trauma should anything go wrong. But again! That's just a reason *we* made the decision. It totally could have gone either way, but we just did what was right for us.)

Most of my friends who've had little boys around here since have opted not to, either, so I'm hoping maybe he won't be as "weird" as we worried.

almcconnell1680 · February 2014

As a second time mom, my husband and I have decided to not get this one circumcised if its a boy. In fact if we had done more discussions before we would have known the only reason we did it for our first born is bec we both thought the other was firmly for it. We were in the room when it was done. I honestly recommend you watch a video of the procedure, I think that would sway you against the whole thing. It was torture for him and for us. Thankfully he hasn't had complications from it, but I know that is a possibility. You need to do as much research as you can, but know this,there are no greater benefits to circumcision in this day and age with our hygiene practices, you don't have any greater care if they're intact. And honestly, as a mom who was there when my son got his done, I regret ever putting him through it. You wouldn't circ a girl, so why circ a boy?
The whole idea really is to me a very important one after the heartbreak of watching my son strapped at his wrists and ankles, with minimal anasthetic, and virtually have his skin ripped away and cut off. Mind you he screamed the entire procedure and for quite some time after. So when they say its no big deal, think about that. Shouldn't be our choice when it's their bodies to begin with.

[Deleted User] · February 2014

almcconnell1680 said:

As a second time mom, my husband and I have decided to not get this one circumcised if its a boy. In fact if we had done more discussions before we would have known the only reason we did it for our first born is bec we both thought the other was firmly for it. We were in the room when it was done. I honestly recommend you watch a video of the procedure, I think that would sway you against the whole thing. It was torture for him and for us. Thankfully he hasn't had complications from it, but I know that is a possibility. You need to do as much research as you can, but know this,there are no greater benefits to circumcision in this day and age with our hygiene practices, you don't have any greater care if they're intact. And honestly, as a mom who was there when my son got his done, I regret ever putting him through it. You wouldn't circ a girl, so why circ a boy? The whole idea really is to me a very important one after the heartbreak of watching my son strapped at his wrists and ankles, with minimal anasthetic, and virtually have his skin ripped away and cut off. Mind you he screamed the entire procedure and for quite some time after. So when they say its no big deal, think about that. Shouldn't be our choice when it's their bodies to begin with.

I'm sorry your little one had a hard time. That really is heartbreaking.

Our experience was not like that at all. DS didn't even cry and had no adverse reactions afterward. If it had been like your experience, we likely would reconsider this time (if it's a boy), as well.

SandSunBliss · February 2014

LeaLupins said:

almcconnell1680 said:

As a second time mom, my husband and I have decided to not get this one circumcised if its a boy. In fact if we had done more discussions before we would have known the only reason we did it for our first born is bec we both thought the other was firmly for it. We were in the room when it was done. I honestly recommend you watch a video of the procedure, I think that would sway you against the whole thing. It was torture for him and for us. Thankfully he hasn't had complications from it, but I know that is a possibility. You need to do as much research as you can, but know this,there are no greater benefits to circumcision in this day and age with our hygiene practices, you don't have any greater care if they're intact. And honestly, as a mom who was there when my son got his done, I regret ever putting him through it. You wouldn't circ a girl, so why circ a boy?
The whole idea really is to me a very important one after the heartbreak of watching my son strapped at his wrists and ankles, with minimal anasthetic, and virtually have his skin ripped away and cut off. Mind you he screamed the entire procedure and for quite some time after. So when they say its no big deal, think about that. Shouldn't be our choice when it's their bodies to begin with.

I'm sorry your little one had a hard time. That really is heartbreaking.

Our experience was not like that at all. DS didn't even cry and had no adverse reactions afterward. If it had been like your experience, we likely would reconsider this time (if it's a boy), as well.

I'm glad to read this. We are team green, so don't web know if this is an issue yet, but I've been concerned about it. DH is very set on having it done if we have a boy and I've been unsure. I'm still nervous about it but it is nice to read a positive story.

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