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March 2014 Moms
Hot Topic Tuesday: Marriage Equality
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Hot Topic Tuesday: Marriage Equality
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To you. And the Bible. Which should have no bearing on government granted legal rights.
You can call it whatever you want. Your church can call it whatever it wants. But the government should not make a distinction based on your beliefs and your Bible.
What do you call non-sacred "marriages" of people with opposite genitals? Like the ones for money, or citizenship? Or what about non-sacred marriages by people with opposite genitals who do not believe in your Christian god?
Just to be clear, I asked that we find another word for "gay marriage" because that's the part I have a problem with- not the people, or their decisions.
I don't want to come off as judgmental, intolerant, or elitist, but wanted to share a view that was not represented on the board. (It wasn't very hot topic-y)
- marrying only for citizenship
- marrying only for money
- marrying for control
- marrying with no intention or ability do procreate
- marrying and not believing in the bible
- marrying and not being Christian
- marrying with no intention or ability to have children
- marrying with no intention to be sexually faithful
Because I'm pretty sure those wouldn't be considered "sacred" to you. Are you lobbying to change ALL non-your-definition sanctioned partnerships to not be "marriage"? Or do you only care about genitals? And what if someone in a previously same sex relationship has a sex change? Can they be "married' then?
mar·riage
noun \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\: the relationship that exists between a husband and a wife
: a similar relationship between people of the same sex
: a ceremony in which two people are married to each other
Full Definition of MARRIAGE
b. the mutual relation of married persons - wedlock
c. the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
I didn't see God mentioned in there.
I believe in God and the Bible and consider myself to be a religious person. But marriage is a "consensual and contractual relationship recognized by the law".
Religion should not dictate the law. By doing so, aren't you saying that every other religion is "wrong"???
Little Man arrived 3/28/14 at 10:32pm
9 lb 1 oz & 21 3/4 inches
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I don't think it'd be a bad thing if the government ONLY issued "civil unions" for EVERYONE regardless of sex/gender identity, and then those who wanted "marriage" could pursue that with the religious institution of their choice --- some of which would perform same-sex marriages (mine does) and some of which wouldn't.
Ideally all religions would be on board with marriage equality, but I don't see that any time soon.
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
My personal feelings about gay people changed after a close friend from childhood came out as gay. It was pretty evident he was gay even as a child, but I was taught gay people "choose" their lifestyle. When he came out as an adult, it was confirmation for me that you are BORN with your sexual preference. I can't imagine it being "wrong" when you get no choice in the matter. It also hurts my heart that my gay friends most likely feel judged and condemned by so many religious groups as well as our government since same sex marriage still isn't legal in all states.
Therefore, I've decided to NOT judge gay people and vote they do what makes them happy. God can judge them however he wants but that is his call...not mine. I plan to love my gay friends and make them feel accepted and not rejected.
First off, I feel bad because clearly you represent (as of yet) the ONLY person with the opposing view lol...
But anywho...
My one response is that this is NOT actually the definition of marriage. Many people don't get married in church... You can go to city hall.... Or a field.... Wherever.
Also, wouldn't that mean an Atheist also shouldn't be able to use the word "marriage"?
Perhaps people who get married "under god" should call it a "holy marriage" but everyone else should just call it "marriage".
Am I right?
As a matter of fact, marriage was considered an entirely secular practice until the early 13th century. Prior to that, the church wanted nothing to do with it as celibacy was what was considered sacred.
You are certainly entitled to your belief that marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman. I clearly don't agree with that, but even if that were the case, the reasoning behind that has little, if anything, to do with how marriage was originally designed or defined.
However, I did say how I define marriage, and how gay marriage doesn't fit into that (albeit biblically-rooted) definition. I like the idea of legal, civil unions from the government for everyone as an alternative to legal (gay) marriage because it would further separate the state's involvement in something I believe should happen in the church.
I know that my opinion is not popular, but the last thing I want to communicate is unloving, removed judgement.
I do not believe two consenting adults should be able to marry no matter what, but I do think that gay marriage isn't wrong, they are in fact not one and the same and it's naive to think they are.
My take on gay marriage is this: no one should have less rights then another person. If they wanna get married then that is their business and no one should tell them no. At least there are still people in this world who value marriage. I also think that they shouldn't have more rights than me either, why do they get gay days, and gay rally's? I like being straight, can't I get a day for that? Why do they have charity's for gay people and go crazy about bully's, but the truth is now people are getting bullied if they do not completely conform. My college professor told our class that there are almost no studies on gay marriage, why? Because people are afraid of it. If there are any findings against the popular belief than that person who performed the study pretty much gets crucified. Which to me is wrong!
If someone is gay, cool for them, to me I treat them like a human being, yes you can get married, yes you can have every right I do, yes you do not deserve to be treated badly; however, if you want to be like everyone else, then stop playing the gay card like the world owes you something (not all gay people do this, but some do, and it pisses me off). If you want me to treat you normal, than act normal. Same thing with a straight person, if you act like an idiot I'm gonna treat you like an idiot, it has nothing to do with your sexual preference. Many gay people make being gay a way to victimize themselves. If you are gay, own it, don't use it!
That being said, I think they should let them be married and get every benefit I get. People deserve their shot at happiness and it isn't the government or others rights to tell them no. How would we feel if they banned straight marriage? I'd be pretty angry! That doesn't mean though I all of a sudden have to raise my children to be gay or get a tattoo of a rainbow or go to gay rally's.
Respect someone no matter what nationality, sexual preference, gender, race, etc. they are. This world needs to stop labeling people, gay and straight, black and white, male and female. We are all people. PEOPLE should have the right to marry. PEOPLE should have their freedom. PEOPLE should have the same rights!
Marriage existed before Christianity so even calling dibs on the word doesn't work
Edit- ok that came off as super sensitive and rawr, but the heart of the question still stands.
See this is what I mean! Some lady wrote how she felt and everyone attacked her for disagreeing with them. She has her damn freedom of speech too! You not only want gay marriage, you want to take away others rights to believe what they want! I've already stated my opinion that people deserve a shot at happiness, but NO ONE should be okay with stating that they are for gay marriage then demand that someone else with the opposite opinion shouldn't. This is what grinds my gears, it has nothing to do with marriage and everything to do with freedom of speech and harassment! She doesn't have to explain to you why she believes what she does! You also have the same right! If she believes marriage is a union between man and woman before god, then that is her damn right. If you don't believe in god then that is your right. Gay marriage is a popular belief now, and the minority is getting bullied. Just like the duck dynasty thing. How is it okay that people can say that they are for gay marriage, but when someone isn't they aren't allowed to say it on tv now? Wait, so you are taking away his rights? Guess so. People are hypocritical! The people who demand the most tolerance and the ones who are the least tolerant of others! You make me sick!
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
My problem with the "they didn't choose it so it should be legal" argument is where do we draw the line? Pedophiles, serial killers, and addicts are all either born that way or made that way through abuse that was no choice of theirs. We could say that we lock up pedophiles and serial killers because they are hurting others, while gay people don't, but then what about addicts? Why shouldn't they be allowed to consume as much of their addiction as they want?
RIP Dr. Irving Fishman - 10/1/19-7/25/10 - thank you for holding on for me.
You made my wedding day complete.
Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from consequences. You don't seem to understand that.
Also, any kind of hateful speech should be spoken out against, as to not encourage others who are less educated and more bigoted that they should take action against the groups that they hate.
I have no prob with @linzandjer11. I've been asking for clarification on the logic. She has communicated her beliefs in a respectful, and not at all, hateful way. I wish more people were like that.
Including you. Your stance on personal rights is commendable. However, your insistence that minority groups, who are not and have not been treated equally just shut the hell up and quit protesting is absurd. You say you're cool with "the gays" but want them to not advocate for acceptance or recognition or just less hatred is kind of sickening. Terrible things happen because of those hateful groups and they shouldn't be kept out of the public. Just because you are cool with it doesn't mean the vocal public is...and just because you don't want to hear about it anymore doesn't mean it should go away.
Married 11/27/09 and TTC right away
Dx: Complete septate uterus with cervical duplication, endometrial polyps, PCOS, endometriosis, hypo thyroid, luteal phase defect
4 uterus surgeries to correct my complete septum and to remove polyps and 2 years of seeing the RE, medicated cycles and IUIs
Baby 1 and 2: BFP 3/3/11 with 2 babies EDD 11/1/11, M/C 4/6/11
Baby #3: 8/11 pregnant EDD 4/27/11 and m/c:(
Baby #4: 10/12/11 BFP! EDD 6/16/12m/c 10/26/11
Baby #5: 3/13/12 BFP! EDD 11/25/12 ANOTHER m/c
Baby #6: 2/14/13- BFP! EDD 10/24/13, CP 2/19/13
Baby #7: 3/15/13- BFP! EDD 11/27/13, another CP
Baby #8. BFP 5/19/13 EDD 1/22/14. 8 was not our lucky number
4th septum resection on 5/31/13.
Baby #9: 6/29/13 BFP. C section scheduled for March 5th!
My miracle baby was born March 5 at 9:33am. He was 8 lbs 12.5 oz and 21.25 inches long!
I won't go into the religious aspects of marriage as I am agnostic and therefore don't think it is my place to argue this stance.
However, I will point out the economic aspect of marriage equality. More weddings means more wedding business.
"There aren't any gay people here to offend, and if there were, I'd tell them to leave, because they can't have children"
I should have made it "marriage equality." I only didn't because that's what "my side" uses and I didn't want the thread title to be "biased" but in retrospect it would have been the right thing to do. I think I'll change it now.
Exactly this.
What challenges have you faced being straight? Did you have to overcome enormous obstacles that would deem celebration?
And in reference to bullying.... unless you have actual data, I highly doubt that bullying is more common for people who do not conform versus people who are gay.
I'm concerned for the quality of your college education if this is what your professor is claiming. Perhaps they don't do studies... because there haven't been enough gay marriages to collect data on....?
"Playing the gay card like the world owes you something" ...................... let's reverse roles for a second. Let's say people were being attacked, isolated, abused, even murdered because you were straight.... wouldn't you act differently?
Yikes.