Hot Topic Tuesday: Circumcision

WoodShopGirl · October 2013

pepperedmoth said:

craftiemommie said:

My husband is a tradesman, too (carpenter).

I bet the poster of that comment has loved ones in the trades if she grew up with steelworkers.
I'm glad we called out the classism (CLASSISM BOO HISS) but I'm guessing this was a HUGE foot-in-mouth-I-feel-like-an-idiot moment for @ewallace00 and she's kind of red-faced and will apologize if we give her half a sec. :-)
Can I just say that I am jealous that your husband is a tradesman? He will be able to show your children very cool things. Growing up my brother and I learned how to fix/create so many things from my sheet metal worker dad- and my husband is completely useless around the house (social studies teacher). Granted he will be terrific when it comes to homework, but I'm getting a little tired of having to be the one with the toolbox lol. And a carpenter to boot - I bet your house is gorgeous! (Totally, totally jealous, as I have a handyman on speed dial)

As to point one, yes! That's the thing he is Number One Most Excited About, I think --- sharing what he knows with a son (he would have with a daughter, too, but that's a moot point.)

As to point two . . . )

Srsly no. We bought a fixer-upper and it's still half gutted and almost unlivable. My kitchen is tupperware containers and metal garage shelving. My entire downstairs doesn't have flooring, just plywood subfloor. The stairs need to be ripped out so he didn't bother with the stairwell and it's just studs and insulation.

Ever heard the saying, "the shoemaker's children go barefoot?" . . . yeaaaahhhhh . . .

And now I think this thread is Totally and Officially Off Topic!

Hehehehe, what do we want to 'fight' about next week?

I think we are the same person living in alternate places. My husband is also a carpenter (I run the business side our our lumber yard and millwork shop) and we too have a fixer-upper that we are doing all the work in ourselves. Same thing, plywood subfloors in half the upstairs, gutted master bath, only some of our 19 windows have been replaced, so they are mis matched.

Shoemakers children...

WoodShopGirl · October 2013

ewallace00 said:

@TallAsh, @LolaBelle11, @snow527, @DaisyCat11,@Dotgirl2, @kirotea, @ALHolli
ok ok ladies, you were right and I am sorry. I added the job examples hastily at the end while taking a work call, and wasn't even thinking I may offend some of you. In thinking of it more, I should also add that I grew up in a family business that made countertops and cabinets, and that may have been the single largest contributor to not knowing how to act in a very professional environment where you could get fired for saying the wrong things. I wouldn't have survived for a week in the super straight laced placed I worked for 10 years had I thought that what went on at the family business was normal. Again I am sorry. I have some wonderful relatives in the professions I mentioned that are great dads and great husbands.

@ewallace00 While I do appreciate the apology as the wife of a tradesman, I just wanted to comment on your point of family business. MH and I own our lumber yard and milllwork shop together and are 2nd generation family owners having bought out MH's parents. People ask me all the time how we do it, meaning how do we maintain a relationship while working together. I think our success (and this is just us) is that we treat each other as professionals in the office, leaving any personal issue to stay at home. And vice versa we leave work issues at work.

Maintaining a level of professionalism and respecting "normal" business relationship dynamics enables us to work well together, just as these skills would let us work well in a more formal environment.

htn1763 · October 2013

@ewallace00- I don't think circs are done at the hospital. I believe they are done later at your doctor's office.

liamandlettie · October 2013

FarmBoysWife said:

htn1763 said:

@ewallace00- I don't think circs are done at the hospital. I believe they are done later at your doctor's office.

Mine was done before we left, DS was 2 days I think?

Ditto

legallyginger · October 2013

jenniemac2000 said:

htn1763 said:

@ewallace00- I don't think circs are done at the hospital. I believe they are done later at your doctor's office.

Mine was done before we left, DS was 2 days I think?
Ditto

It probably depends on your doctor/insurance/hospital. I had no idea that some people DIDN'T have it done in the hospital until I came on here. Everyone I know who had their son circed did it in the hospital before discharge.

htn1763 · October 2013

legallyginger said:

jenniemac2000 said:

htn1763 said:

@ewallace00- I don't think circs are done at the hospital. I believe they are done later at your doctor's office.

Mine was done before we left, DS was 2 days I think?
Ditto

It probably depends on your doctor/insurance/hospital. I had no idea that some people DIDN'T have it done in the hospital until I came on here. Everyone I know who had their son circed did it in the hospital before discharge.

Interesting. I just assumed it was the same everywhere. Our hospital doesn't do them there.

HobokensFury · October 2013

We found out yesterday LO is a boy. He will be getting circumsized.

jennlanting · October 2013

My son had-his done the morning after his birth.. In the hospital! Also insurance covered 100% of the procedure. My husband went in with him I couldn't do it and said he handled it fine and he's now almost five and this next baby which Is a boy will be circd As well

LolaBelle11 · October 2013

You couldnt do it, but you made your Son go through with it? That doesnt make sense to me.

BrideNamedMeg · October 2013

We are not Jewish, but we had DS's done at our house by a Mohel (who is also a doctor) - since we had a home birth it wasn't just an automatic/easy thing to have it done at the hospital. Our midwife recommended the mohel we used and it was fine.

BrideNamedMeg · October 2013

LolaBelle11 said:

You couldnt do it, but you made your Son go through with it? That doesnt make sense to me.

My DD had to have a few blood draws as a newborn for her bilirubin levels and I always asked MH go with her, I couldn't handle it at a week PP. That situations not exactly the same thing, but lots of parents don't want to be present for medical procedures. My cousin is a PICU nurse and has seen many circumcisions, but didn't want to be there when her DS had it done.

LolaBelle11 · October 2013

BrideNamedMeg said:

LolaBelle11 said:

You couldnt do it, but you made your Son go through with it? That doesnt make sense to me.

My DD had to have a few blood draws as a newborn for her bilirubin levels and I always asked MH go with her, I couldn't handle it at a week PP. That situations not exactly the same thing, but lots of parents don't want to be present for medical procedures. My cousin is a PICU nurse and has seen many circumcisions, but didn't want to be there when her DS had it done.

Seems pretty cowardly to me. Your job from day 1 is to be there for you child. Blood draws are not normally something you CHOOSE for your child, but circumcision is, and if you CHOOSE to circ him, you should be there for him, if you cant do it, why should he?

BrideNamedMeg · October 2013

LolaBelle11 said:

BrideNamedMeg said:

LolaBelle11 said:

You couldnt do it, but you made your Son go through with it? That doesnt make sense to me.

My DD had to have a few blood draws as a newborn for her bilirubin levels and I always asked MH go with her, I couldn't handle it at a week PP. That situations not exactly the same thing, but lots of parents don't want to be present for medical procedures. My cousin is a PICU nurse and has seen many circumcisions, but didn't want to be there when her DS had it done.

Seems pretty cowardly to me. Your job from day 1 is to be there for you child. Blood draws are not normally something you CHOOSE for your child, but circumcision is, and if you CHOOSE to circ him, you should be there for him, if you cant do it, why should he?

Does typing in all caps help your cause some how, lol? Yes, it's a choice, but a parent can CHOOSE to comfort their child after and not be there for the actual procedure. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you're wrong to judge.

LolaBelle11 · October 2013

BrideNamedMeg said:

LolaBelle11 said:

BrideNamedMeg said:

LolaBelle11 said:

You couldnt do it, but you made your Son go through with it? That doesnt make sense to me.

My DD had to have a few blood draws as a newborn for her bilirubin levels and I always asked MH go with her, I couldn't handle it at a week PP. That situations not exactly the same thing, but lots of parents don't want to be present for medical procedures. My cousin is a PICU nurse and has seen many circumcisions, but didn't want to be there when her DS had it done.

Seems pretty cowardly to me. Your job from day 1 is to be there for you child. Blood draws are not normally something you CHOOSE for your child, but circumcision is, and if you CHOOSE to circ him, you should be there for him, if you cant do it, why should he?

Does typing in all caps help your cause some how, lol? Yes, it's a choice, but a parent can CHOOSE to comfort their child after and not be there for the actual procedure. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you're wrong to judge.

I use caps to say that routine blood work is not a choice, but circ is. Its called trying to express a certain point over the internet which sometimes is difficult, so caps helps. But aside from pointing out the way that I write something as if it matters that much... Im not necessarily judging, but that logic just doesnt make sense to me. Why not go with him? I want to know.

BrideNamedMeg · October 2013

LolaBelle11 said:

BrideNamedMeg said:

LolaBelle11 said:

BrideNamedMeg said:

LolaBelle11 said:

You couldnt do it, but you made your Son go through with it? That doesnt make sense to me.

My DD had to have a few blood draws as a newborn for her bilirubin levels and I always asked MH go with her, I couldn't handle it at a week PP. That situations not exactly the same thing, but lots of parents don't want to be present for medical procedures. My cousin is a PICU nurse and has seen many circumcisions, but didn't want to be there when her DS had it done.

Seems pretty cowardly to me. Your job from day 1 is to be there for you child. Blood draws are not normally something you CHOOSE for your child, but circumcision is, and if you CHOOSE to circ him, you should be there for him, if you cant do it, why should he?

Does typing in all caps help your cause some how, lol? Yes, it's a choice, but a parent can CHOOSE to comfort their child after and not be there for the actual procedure. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you're wrong to judge.

I use caps to say that routine blood work is not a choice, but circ is. Its called trying to express a certain point over the internet which sometimes is difficult, so caps helps. But aside from pointing out the way that I write something as if it matters that much... Im not necessarily judging, but that logic just doesnt make sense to me. Why not go with him? I want to know.

You sound pretty judgy, which also happens on the internet when you call people cowardly. I have family members that pass out from getting a shot, I almost passed out myself having a biopsy on breast tissue. I wasn't in the room when DS was circumcised because I was with DD - we didn't want her to see and couldn't just shove her in her room for it. There are lots of reasons why someone might not want or be unable to be there for it.

ewill2586 · October 2013

If my child is a boy I will choose to have him circumcised. I work as a nurses aid and have had to clean several uncircumcised penises on elderly men. First of all it's very embarrassing for them, secondly, the care can be very difficult to give as the skin gets different down there as men age. It can be very difficult to get it all clean which it's very commonplace for infection to occur and a lot of discomfort for them. I would prefer for my son to never have to expirience that at any age. It just seems much more hygienic. Nothing against those that choose opposite, it's just part of my expierience that led me to choose pro.

LolaBelle11 · October 2013

It is cowardly!! If you passed out from a biopsy, what makes you think your son was okay while being circumcised? These parents send off their sons to have the procedure done and then are given their sons back after they have passed out from the pain of it and here the mom is thinking it wasnt painful and he was a champ. Thats called blinding yourself with ignorance.

BrideNamedMeg · October 2013

LolaBelle11 said:

It is cowardly!! If you passed out from a biopsy, what makes you think your son was okay while being circumcised? These parents send off their sons to have the procedure done and then are given their sons back after they have passed out from the pain of it and here the mom is thinking it wasnt painful and he was a champ. Thats called blinding yourself with ignorance.

He certainly had no lasting issues and DH was with him as he wanted it done, I was fine either way. You can stay up on your high horse though...enjoy the view.

LolaBelle11 · October 2013

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liamandlettie · October 2013

LolaBelle11 said:
It is cowardly!! If you passed out from a biopsy, what makes you think your son was okay while being circumcised? These parents send off their sons to have the procedure done and then are given their sons back after they have passed out from the pain of it and here the mom is thinking it wasnt painful and he was a champ. Thats called blinding yourself with ignorance.

Wow. I believe (could be wrong) that her husband was there. Mine was also. I hardly sent my child off alone (they don't even allow that at the hospital) to pass out. Please. For the record. I wasn't there either. After hours of repair for my 4th degree tear and double vison for loss of blood I couldn't get myself up and in there. I dunno..I guess sending my husband in there knowing its also his #1 priority to care for our child was enough for me.

I love and hate this thread. Sigh.

BrideNamedMeg · October 2013

jenniemac2000 said:

It is cowardly!! If you passed out from a biopsy, what makes you think your son was okay while being circumcised? These parents send off their sons to have the procedure done and then are given their sons back after they have passed out from the pain of it and here the mom is thinking it wasnt painful and he was a champ. Thats called blinding yourself with ignorance.
Wow. I believe (could be wrong) that her husband was there. Mine was also. I hardly sent my child off alone (they don't even allow that at the hospital) to pass out. Please. For the record. I wasn't there either. After hours of repair for my 4th degree tear and double vison for loss of blood I could get myself up and in there. I dunno..I guess sending my husband in there knowing its also his #1 priority to care for our child was enough for me. I love and hate this thread. Sigh.

Yup, DH was there with him, I was in the other room with DD because we were the only ones home and we couldn't leave her alone to both be with DS. The circumcision literally took 20 seconds and then DH brought him to me and took DD so I could BF him. Some people just like to be bitchy on the internet

To be expected.

liamandlettie · October 2013

BrideNamedMeg said:

jenniemac2000 said:

LolaBelle11 said:
It is cowardly!! If you passed out from a biopsy, what makes you think your son was okay while being circumcised? These parents send off their sons to have the procedure done and then are given their sons back after they have passed out from the pain of it and here the mom is thinking it wasnt painful and he was a champ. Thats called blinding yourself with ignorance.
Wow. I believe (could be wrong) that her husband was there. Mine was also. I hardly sent my child off alone (they don't even allow that at the hospital) to pass out. Please. For the record. I wasn't there either. After hours of repair for my 4th degree tear and double vison for loss of blood I could get myself up and in there. I dunno..I guess sending my husband in there knowing its also his #1 priority to care for our child was enough for me.

I love and hate this thread. Sigh.

Yup, DH was there with him, I was in the other room with DD because we were the only ones home and we couldn't leave her alone to both be with DS. The circumcision literally took 20 seconds and then DH brought him to me and took DD so I could BF him. Some people just like to be bitchy on the internet

To be expected.

I'm a little scared for next week. Maybe Ill stick to the "its a...." posts ;-)

Linnea503 · October 2013

Since I haven't seen it mentioned yet, I will add that babies do die as a result of circumcision. The most recent numbers I've seen are approx 120 boys a year in the US. It does happen.

For reasons other posters have already stated, we did not circ DS and will not circ this LO.

craftiemommie · October 2013

I walked in last night and said to DH, "Circumcision?" he said "absolutely". I asked why and he said "for the same reason your parents had that huge mole removed from your breast as a kid." Because as an adult I am so thankful they made the decision for an elective cosmetic procedure to be done that made my life easier. Superficial? Sure. But thats reality!

And since we will be going to one of the most state of the art neonatal hospitals in the country I'm thinking he will pull through just fine. I'd like to see a study on where these circs were performed that babies actually died.

babylimas · October 2013

Luckily I don't even have to make the decision. With the potential for hemophilia we can't circumcise until later. I don't want to do it with an older baby, so we will just bypass.

Maddeegal · October 2013

I actually dated a guy who was not circed.... It really, really, really bothered him. I think because of this a dad should choose for his son, if that guy doesn't think it would bother him, then okay, but I've heard of too many people who got teased in locker rooms etc. we are having a girl, but if we were having a boy we agreed on circumcising, mainly for a few reasons,
More sanitary, confidence issues and because of my other personal beliefs in life and DH wanted to. I believe it is a very personal choice, and I don't think just because people can't "see a reason for it," that it is wrong for people to do it. For instance, I don't understand why people like wearing the color brown... I think it's the ugliest color of clothes, but for people who love wearing brown they probably think I'm ridiculous... It comes down to perspective and opinion. The only thing I truly believe is that just cause you "don't get it," doesn't make it the wrong choice. With either way you go. There is no right or wrong answer.

katykatykaty · October 2013

Maddeegal said:

I actually dated a guy who was not circed.... It really, really, really bothered him. I think because of this a dad should choose for his son, if that guy doesn't think it would bother him, then okay, but I've heard of too many people who got teased in locker rooms etc. we are having a girl, but if we were having a boy we agreed on circumcising, mainly for a few reasons, More sanitary, confidence issues and because of my other personal beliefs in life and DH wanted to. I believe it is a very personal choice, and I don't think just because people can't "see a reason for it," that it is wrong for people to do it. For instance, I don't understand why people like wearing the color brown... I think it's the ugliest color of clothes, but for people who love wearing brown they probably think I'm ridiculous... It comes down to perspective and opinion. The only thing I truly believe is that just cause you "don't get it," doesn't make it the wrong choice. With either way you go. There is no right or wrong answer.

@maddeegal

The fact that you said it's more "sanitary" is a wrong answer. Just because you have to wash it during a shower doesn't mean it's less sanitary than a circumcised penis. I would hope all men wash themselves in the shower. It's like saying that I should shave my head because that would be more sanitary since I wouldn't have to wash my hair anymore.

I also don't see how because it bothered one guy that equates to all men should choose for their sons. How do you know his dad didn't choose to not have him circumcised?

katykatykaty · October 2013

craftiemommie said:

I walked in last night and said to DH, "Circumcision?" he said "absolutely". I asked why and he said "for the same reason your parents had that huge mole removed from your breast as a kid." Because as an adult I am so thankful they made the decision for an elective cosmetic procedure to be done that made my life easier. Superficial? Sure. But thats reality! And since we will be going to one of the most state of the art neonatal hospitals in the country I'm thinking he will pull through just fine. I'd like to see a study on where these circs were performed that babies actually died.

It doesn't have to be the reality. It's not the reality other countries, and it's changing here, too.

I'm sure my husband would say that being uncircumcised has not made his life any harder. Except for all that extra time he spends having to clean himself in the shower... He's probably lost hours of his life to that!

I actually have to work today, so I'm out.

ceh789 · October 2013

@katykatykaty I've spent hours of my life washing my left arm, and I'm right handed. I've been thinking about having it cut off so I'll have more time to Bump. What do you think?

katykatykaty · October 2013

ceh789 said:

@katykatykaty I've spent hours of my life washing my left arm, and I'm right handed. I've been thinking about having it cut off so I'll have more time to Bump. What do you think?

Excellent decision. You're so practical!

craftiemommie · October 2013

katykatykaty said:

craftiemommie said:

I walked in last night and said to DH, "Circumcision?" he said "absolutely". I asked why and he said "for the same reason your parents had that huge mole removed from your breast as a kid." Because as an adult I am so thankful they made the decision for an elective cosmetic procedure to be done that made my life easier. Superficial? Sure. But thats reality!

And since we will be going to one of the most state of the art neonatal hospitals in the country I'm thinking he will pull through just fine. I'd like to see a study on where these circs were performed that babies actually died.

It doesn't have to be the reality. It's not the reality other countries, and it's changing here, too.

I'm sure my husband would say that being uncircumcised has not made his life any harder. Except for all that extra time he spends having to clean himself in the shower... He's probably lost hours of his life to that!

I actually have to work today, so I'm out.

I meant that the reality is we live in a superficial world.

lizardknitter · October 2013

As usual, I'm late to this party. We are having a boy and will NOT circ. My H is, and says that he is still angry at his mom for choosing to cut off part of his body without his consent (his was done as a newborn).
I also find the "look like dad or others" argument sort of funny. My father is 81. He is not cut. My brothers are. Because when dad was born (at home!), it was not the norm. Only Muslims and Jewish men were cut. But by the time my brothers were born ('59 & '61) it was more culturally normal to be circ'd. Cultural norms change with time. And I'm pretty sure my brothers didn't care that they didn't "look like dad."
Additionally, my ex-H wasn't cut and he was very popular with the ladies in high school (& beyond - why he's my ex). I think teens are more savvy and will continue to embrace diversity as time goes on. Seems a silly reason to cut off a body part to me. Just my opinion.
For those on the fence, do some research and find out what the real pros and cons are. Don't ask a doc, because they are not always UTD on medical research and info. And I'm also an RN. The cases of adult/elderly men who don't wash their genitals are probably pretty small, especially to the point of infection. Those poor gents probably have a lot of other pressing medical issues too. It always gets me when people cite their limited lifetime experiences (not to mean that they don't have much, but to say that they have not experienced everything or everyone on the planet) and use those experiences as a basis of fact.

Linnea503 · October 2013

dotgirl2 said:

Linnea503 said:
Since I haven't seen it mentioned yet, I will add that babies do die as a result of circumcision. The most recent numbers I've seen are approx 120 boys a year in the US. It does happen.

For reasons other posters have already stated, we did not circ DS and will not circ this LO.
120 out of how many? What's the percentage? Any number of deaths is terrible, but context matters so that parents can accurately weighs risks v. benefits.

Please do your research. If you are not coming across the mortality and complication rates, you are not doing thorough enough research. This information is out there and easily found.

Missfunball · October 2013

oh hai its Wednesday. Just sayin'

pepperedmoth · October 2013

The stat comes from this article (https://www.mensstudies.com/content/b64n267w47m333x0/?p=488e687276f346699601a0275fc5827b&pi=2) which I have not read. I do know that it's in dispute.

katykatykaty · October 2013

dotgirl2 said:

pepperedmoth said:

The stat comes from this article (https://www.mensstudies.com/content/b64n267w47m333x0/?p=488e687276f346699601a0275fc5827b&pi=2) which I have not read. I do know that it's in dispute.

Thanks.

Linnea503 My fear is that by throwing a number out re: deaths, without putting it in context of the overall numbers of circumcisions, you are using it as a fear tactic to scare women into not circumcising their sons. There is risk associated with everything we do in life. There is no getting around that. But in order to function in this world, we have to weigh the risks against the benefits.

For me, a number like 120 is means a lot less when taken alone, than it does when in comparison to the number of circumcisions performed in the U.S. For example, if there were 1,000 circumcisions done each year, I would absolutely be against circumcising my son. The risk is too high for me. If, on the other hand, there are 2 million circumcisions done in this country each year, then I feel comfortable with that risk. I'll beat the dead horse here -- context matters.

So, if you are going to use death as an argument against circumcision, please include all of the facts associated with it. Absent that, your "stat" is meaningless to me.

I completely agree with your point, @dotgirl2, but if someone's doing it simply for cosmetic reasons, I think any number of deaths is too many. Again, I know people have other reasons for doing it, and that's not what I'm referring to here.

beachcomberbride · October 2013

My two living sons are circumcised, I will not be circumcising this one. I have researched it more and don't find it necessary to cut off something that has a lot of nerve endings in it … it seems unnecessary.

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