Government Shutdown

ocmommy2B · October 2013

It continues to amaze me how becoming a mother can really change your focus and sensitivity when it comes to certain issues.

I'm a pretty sympathetic person but I must admit, prior to being pregnant I probably would have only harped on the fact that the government is a bunch of asshole hack-jobs. But something has already kicked in my maternal instinct and the FIRST place my mind went to was "whats gonna happen with healthcare/aid and all the pregnant women, mothers and children who depend on the government!?"

Im blesssed enough to not be immediately affected by the shutdown...our income, my healthcare/pregnancy and everything else essential to our day-to-day will remain fine; but i'm really sitting here stressing for the countless innocent people who will be negatively affected. so sad, so disgusting.

taramesselt · October 2013

Just a note - I recently flew to Mexico and my passport name and ticket name didn't match because I didn't change it after I got married. I brought my drivers license in both names, my social security cards in both names and my marriage license and they let me fly. Hopefully that works for your sister too

daisyMaryGirl · October 2013

For true change to happen, a system has to break. Here we stand with our government process breaking. Neither party cares about the American People. The only time they act like they care is when election time rolls around.

We, as a society, have to look at where our Government has become an entitlement entity rather than working for the American People. It's truly a shame that the "worker bees" are affected more than the individuals making these decisions.

KTdidit · October 2013

daisyMaryGirl said:

For true change to happen, a system has to break. Here we stand with our government process breaking. Neither party cares about the American People. The only time they act like they care is when election time rolls around.

We, as a society, have to look at where our Government has become an entitlement entity rather than working for the American People. It's truly a shame that the "worker bees" are affected more than the individuals making these decisions.

All of this. Exactly. I will be the first to admit that I don't know as much as I should about the shutdown or Obamacare, and therefore cannot debate anything (thank god). All I know is that the givernment does NOT work for the people, they couldn't give a rat's ass what is best for us.

How could they possibly justify Congress still getting a paycheck when all around the country federal employees, who had no say in this shutdown, have to go an indefinite length of time with no work and no income?! People are worried about paying their bills, about getting their medication, about feeding their families. Yet the jackass fucks in DC who can't get their heads out of their asses go on with no consequences?!

KTdidit · October 2013

Oh and what perfect timing. We just received a letter from the American Institues for Research, who funds some of our projects through the US DOE, to stop all work immeidately on these projects. Fan-freaking-tastic.

katykatykaty · October 2013

armalan12 said:

For true change to happen, a system has to break. Here we stand with our government process breaking. Neither party cares about the American People. The only time they act like they care is when election time rolls around.

We, as a society, have to look at where our Government has become an entitlement entity rather than working for the American People. It's truly a shame that the "worker bees" are affected more than the individuals making these decisions.

Except this isn't the first shutdown. There have been numerous since the 70's the longest being 21 days in 1995.

This. And I disagree about neither party caring for the American people. The ACA will help people get access to health care. The Tea Party shut down the government to try to prevent it from happening.

TM14.defunct635821369925797514 · October 2013

I guess I'm effected....I use WIC. I don't have a job currently and the fiance and I rely on WIC checks for help...so I hope this gets resolved soon =(

mdr619 · October 2013

elf828 said:

It's my understanding that WIC would not be affected since it is a state-funded program, not federally funded. I could be wrong but that's how I thought it worked.

I thought that, too. But then I saw this:
https://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57605501/wic-support-for-moms-babies-threatened-during-shutdown/

and according to CNN, there's this:

SNAP -- food stamps -- continue at least for one month. But WIC, a separate program for pregnant women and children, would shut down. WIC affects 9 million people per month according to their government website.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-impact/index.html

EarthandFire · October 2013

We won't be affected as much as we original believed we might, BH is active duty military, but I have no idea how this will pan out for us in the long run if the shut down lasts more than a month. Thankfully my job is in the private sector. Our basic needs will be met but I have concerns. It's not a comfortable place to be. We have savings but you never want to deplete that emergency fund, especially with a LO on the way. I can't wait until he's done and is also in the private sector.

I can see both sides to this coin. There are good things and there are things that worry me. What makes me angry is that Congress is getting paid while so many Federal employees go without. If you're going to put thousands of people in positions not to receive their paychecks I feel Congress should sacrifice as well. Call it motivation to get this resolved. I doubt many would go without if they missed their Congressional paycheck for a while. I suspect those in Congress would be the least to suffer should they miss their pay checks for a month or two.

mdr619 · October 2013

ChiaWombat said:

SuzyQq02 said:

We are thankfully not directly affected, though MH's firm is awaiting results of a fed audit which they now won't get, so if they do something contrary to it, they may be held liable... fun times.
As to the ACA point, I'll put on my helmet and waddle into the fray. I live in MA, where the system the ACA is based on basically piloted. It's been, for the most part, pretty successful here in terms of getting people covered, more mixed results in controlling costs because the state services don't exist in a vacuum.
People LOVE certain provisions of the ACA that are helpful to them. The only problem is, how you even out the costs associated with those provisions (and thus lower costs for everyone) is for everyone to buy in. Without the individual mandate (which is consistently the lowest polled aspect of the law), people with pre-existing conditions don't get coverage. It's the spreading of costs over a greater number of people that makes the system work. You can't have the goodies without the other stuff, it's economics.
And yes, I've contacted both my senators to tell them not to vote to defund or dismantle the ACA. :-)

I think what the Tea Party is most worried about is that people are actually going to like Obamacare.
Ted Cruz said basically that exactly on Rush Limbaugh the other day.

I agree 100%. I think they're freaking out because...what if the ACA actually WORKS?!

When I was 19 I almost died from a kidney infection because I didn't have health insurance and couldn't afford to go to the doctor. When I was finally rushed to the ER I was so sick the doc was worried I would die! I missed nearly 2 weeks of work and ended up with THOUSANDS of dollars in medical bills. I would have had to file bankruptcy, but my parents (who are financially well-off) were able to step in and help with the bills.

More recently, I was denied health care FOR YEARS because I had a pre-exisiting condition...endometriosis.

No one should have to risk their life simply because they can't afford to go to the doctor.

VAMomma31 · October 2013

Any American who says that they are not directly affected because of the shutdown needs to wake up. Just because you're not a federal employee does not make you exempt from the effects of what's happening with the government. If you're somewhat clueless about Obamacare, educate yourself! If you don't understand the ins and outs of the debt ceiling crisis, please take the time to learn more. (And please go beyond the 24-hour news stations and/or only national newspapers.) This is a national crisis, not an isolated one.

I appreciate the support from all the non US ladies on the board. I also hope that this situation gets resolved quickly (my mom is a fed, DH is active duty, and my organization works directly with the federal government). ((HUGS)) to those who are most directly affected.

BeautyHeldCaptive · October 2013

I'm so sorry, I hope you hubby is there for your LO's birth.

SavannaM+ · October 2013

blscholl1645 said:

Beachmommy1029 said:

Military spouse here... Thank God we got paid yesterday.

Me too but I'm really nervous about the next paycheck

our commissary closed today and it was a mad house earlier this morning! Im just livid about the whole situation...

No need to stress over the Oct 15 check or any other check until Jan 2015 based on bother houses of Congress passing & the President signing "The Pay Our Military Act" last night.

That being said military families are still being impacted with commissary clousers & delays in othe services offered on base.

mdr619 · October 2013

So many conservative Americans bash Canada's health care, emphasizing that it is socialist, as if that was something evil.. I have never once heard from a Canadian that they were unhappy with their healthcare.

I truly don't understand what they are so scared of.

SuzyQq02 · October 2013

To add, for those who need it and can not afford healthcare it is comforting to see them able to receive care. I just pointed out that its not all puppies and rainbows with free health care for us in Alaska.

But the ACA isn't about providing "free" healthcare through a system like the VA or the BIA health service. It is a way to provide medical insurance to those who currently lack coverage, so they can participate in the health care system as it currently exists. The service delivery method won't change, but more people will have access to it.

Codypup · October 2013

elf828 said:

It's my understanding that WIC would not be affected since it is a state-funded program, not federally funded. I could be wrong but that's how I thought it worked.

I haven't read through the rest of the replies, so I apologize if this has already been addressed.

All administrative costs of WIC, at the federal level are being shut down/will not be paid - so unless each state individually decides to continue funding WIC, then it too will be shut down in the state.

JLaura214 · October 2013

SuzyQq02 said:

To add, for those who need it and can not afford healthcare it is comforting to see them able to receive care. I just pointed out that its not all puppies and rainbows with free health care for us in Alaska.

But the ACA isn't about providing "free" healthcare through a system like the VA or the BIA health service. It is a way to provide medical insurance to those who currently lack coverage, so they can participate in the health care system as it currently exists. The service delivery method won't change, but more people will have access to it.

Thank you for pointing this out to her. @Flightview, you seem very confused about what the ACA is - it is not free health care for people that can't afford health care - that system already exists, it is called medicaid. The ACA is actually for people that CAN afford healthcare but aren't offered coverage through their employer for various reasons. This is a common misconception - somehow. There are reasons that some people are against the ACA, but the reasons that you're listing are false, since you are misinformed about what the ACA is altogether. (All others - I don't post here often, please dont yell at me for now chiming in.)

karich · October 2013

TyrannosaurusLex said:

car seat said:

FlightView said:

golfergirl08 said:

FlightView said:

I'm just throwing in a random comment. As Alaska Native I receive free health care because of my nationality. I pay for healthcare so I can go to a private Dr. The care I received at ANMC (Alaska Native Medical Center) was inadequate and inconsistent. It scares me to think people want to have healthcare like this, it is not all that it is cracked up to be. I know I will be flamed because crappy healthcare is better than no healthcare right? I would also like to point out that had my younger brother been born at the ANMC he would have died, he is now 19 thanks to Providence. At ANMC I have been misdiagnosed and given medication for the misdiagnosis.

This sounds like a doctor problem, and not a general healthcare problem. A different doctor might not have misdiagnosed you. Also, misdiagnosis/mistreatment could have occurred at a private doctor too. I don't know your situation, but that's just what it sounds like to me.

It is a general health care problem because the care that is provided albeit free, is not adequate. I believe the reason for this is because it is government funded

Health care in Canada is government funded and it's fucking awesome. It sounds like ANMC has a problem because of how it specifically is set up. The idea is not flawed, the practice is (with ANMC).

My step-dad needed an MRI on his knee. He had it within a week. I broke my arm. I walked into the hospital with my OHIP card and a few hours later I walked out with a cast. I have no co-pays. I will have two babies in January after approximately 30 ultrasounds and a ton of appointments. No cost to me. Last year I had a bad NT scan. Within three weeks I had blood tests, a level 3 scan, a CVS, results, and a D&C. All I had to do was show my OHIP card.

It's awesome.

Thank you for putting it so well @car seat.

There is no perfect system, but a system where at anytime, no matter what my life circumstances, job status, financial background or family benefits plan is I can walk in off the street and receive immediate, high quality, safe, and impartial health care ROCKS MY SOCKS.

Day I was born: birth in hospital, cord wrapped around my neck, not breathing, needed resuscitation and spent 3 nights in NICU

Cost to my mother: free

Age 10: earring lodges itself inside my lobe overnight, needed removal by surgeon; free

Age 14: endometriosis, ovarian cysts, needed multiple x-rays, u/s, blood tests, specialist visits, and birth control to help with symptoms; free

Age 16: car accident passenger, whip lash, back and neck injuries, x-rays, treatments; free

Age 19-20: cervical cancer, surgeries, treatments; free

Age 22: needed wisdom teeth removed under anesthetic due to asthma complications; free

Age 22: needed MRI/CT scan to check for hereditary history of aneurisms; free, seen within the week

Age 23: emergency appendectomy, 4 day hospital stay, follow up care; free

Age 25: pregnant, need prenatal care, personal midwife, ultrasounds, blood work, GD tests, NT scan, quad screen, anatomy scan, and a place to deliver with trained medical personnel; free

This is just a tiny bit of my personal medical history. Can someone tally up what this would cost in America (joking that sounds like a lot of math)? I'm a pretty healthy, lucky person in general. This would have bankrupted my family, and it doesn't even include any of my immediate families health concerns.

ETA: Oh, and my mom was supporting a family of 4 on $32,000 a year during all of my years lived at home

Except....it's not free. I mean, someone has to pay for it.
The Canadian system is far from perfect. The system has a hell of a time attracting and keeping primary care doctors.
This may have changed, but I did a report on socialized medicine in nursing school and found many instances where people waited a long time for necessary medical treatments. I'm sure you could easily find updated info on the wait times. I specifically remember the wait times for newly diagnosed cancer patients starting chemo treatment was significantly longer in canada vs United States.

karich · October 2013

https://www.gov.nl.ca/HaveYouHeard/wta.pdf

I agree with you @golfergirl08, I live in "Taxachusetts" and we have the insurance system that obamacare is modeled after. The only difference I've noticed is that our premiums have gone up considerably, for worse coverage.
Another thing that's happening here (to healthcare workers) is that the hospital you work for is now custom tailoring your insurance plan to make it financially impossible to go elsewhere for care. Any hospital/doctor that's outside the network (not the health plans network....the hospital's healthcare system) are barely covered. You are basically forced to get your healthcare where you work.

karich · October 2013

car seat said:

golfergirl08 said:

karich said:

TyrannosaurusLex said:

Except....it's not free. I mean, someone has to pay for it.
The Canadian system is far from perfect. The system has a hell of a time attracting and keeping primary care doctors.
This may have changed, but I did a report on socialized medicine in nursing school and found many instances where people waited a long time for necessary medical treatments. I'm sure you could easily find updated info on the wait times. I specifically remember the wait times for newly diagnosed cancer patients starting chemo treatment was significantly longer in canada vs United States.

I edited to get rid of the quote tree, but yes I have heard this, too. I have heard this is true of most countries with socialized health care (I haven't done the research as you have). I don't really have any particular thoughts on it. I guess it would depend on how it really affects the overall patient care. Starting chemo later seems like it would have an effect because the cancer might spread. On the flip side, I don't think anyone would be turned away from emergency surgery. I am sure the system is far from perfect, but it still seems better than what the US has. I would love to expect not to pay anything for the birth of my child. But I expect to pay my full deductible. It's not like we have low taxes in California, I pay enough dammit, lol.

Oh, it's not free. Of course not! It's government funded, which means that we pay for it in taxes. But I remember a few years ago comparing taxes with friends in New England with similar salary levels. We paid approximately the same in taxes, but we get universal health care and they don't. We also have affordable post-secondary education, and good public schools - good to the point that most Canadians find the idea of paying for elementary and high school completely ridiculous. I went to the same university as people who went to private schools (and I earned higher scholarships).

Wait times have improved exponentially in the past ten years, especially in Ontario. I'll try to track down the reports on the improvements, but it's pretty quick these days. I'll be honest and say that I've never heard of people (in my province) waiting to start chemo. And almost every single person over the age of 40 in my family - on both sides - has had cancer. My mom has had cancer caught in the very early stages twice, thanks to regular preventative screening. Immediate treatment put her in the clear very quickly. A girl I know through my fertility clinic was diagnosed earlier this year with breast cancer. She got the diagnosis, three days later started the process to retrieve and freeze her eggs, and started chemo immediately after retrieval. A friend of a friend was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and received aggressive treatment immediately. My uncle was feeling off, went in for a physical, and was diagnosed very quickly with leukemia. Treatment started immediately. My step-dad had a suspicious mole. It was biopsied, tested, and cleared within the week.

These don't seem like long wait times to me. I'm actually not sure how these things could be faster.

My paper was done about 10 years ago, so that makes sense

Comparatively, I think the schools in Massachusetts are good, but the ones in my town are not, and we pay private tuition on top of property taxes, income taxes, sales tax, excise tax, expensive home prices, blah blah blah.
It's becoming more and more difficult for a two-income family to make ends meet, and still do right by your family.
You just made Canada sound pretty good....any idea what nurses make?

kforbs126 · October 2013

I'm in the Navy as well as my husband and we are thankful they came to a resolution to pay us because we would have to have come to work and work without pay. I feel so bad for the civilians that can't afford to not have paychecks. I work with a lot of civilians and I know they were affected earlier in the year when they were furloughed now they are being affected again.

shellbell3845 · October 2013

car seat said:

karich said:
My paper was done about 10 years ago, so that makes sense Comparatively, I think the schools in Massachusetts are good, but the ones in my town are not, and we pay private tuition on top of property taxes, income taxes, sales tax, excise tax, expensive home prices, blah blah blah. It's becoming more and more difficult for a two-income family to make ends meet, and still do right by your family. You just made Canada sound pretty good....any idea what nurses make?

Ugh, it all sounds so complicated there! Frustrating. We pay property taxes, too, and sales tax, but overall I find our tax system to be pretty simple and fair, especially for what we get in return. I think one of the biggest differences here is the defense spending. War isn't exactly a priority here. We're armed, so we can jump in when shit's going down, but we don't have enough weapons to blow up the world 42 times. We actually don't have any nuclear weapons here and won't allow them within our borders. So our money goes to things like health care instead of to weapons.

I don't think nurses are rich here, but I have a few in the family (and a lot of nurse friends!) and they're doing alright, and loving their jobs. And they can go to any doctor or hospital they damn well please, because it's all covered by OHIP.

Plus, our beer is awesome.

This has been a very interesting topic to read about! I get tired of Americans being so uninformed... We had friends over on Saturday, and all they did was spew inaccuracies about ACA, with some Canadian bashing thrown in for good measure. For example, this friend told me to save my money for L&D because the ACA meant maternity/women's health services would no longer be covered. That's a totally bogus thing to say, and I have a contract with my insurance company that says so. But if enough people believe these lies...well, it's scary. This friend also said our hospitals are bogged down with Canadians who are constantly being denied health care in Canada (we live in WNY, very close to the border crossings). Now, said friend does fix TVs in a hopsital, but I find it hard to believe a.) he has access to patients to ask if they're Canadian, or b.) he knows what he's talking about, especially after reading this thread. In conversations with this particular group on this particular topic, I keep my mouth shut. DH and his friends are pretty conservative, and me not so much. Thanks for the info!

karich · October 2013

Also, @car seat, correct me if I'm wrong. Your govt coverage does not cover prescription drugs, right?
It always breaks my heart to hear of the elderly couple who go without food to afford their meds because Medicare doesn't cover them.

shashonie · October 2013

I'm state-funded, so not affected by paycheck. My husband's green card papers however will be affected as well as his travel document and work visa application. Not happy and I even used the childish "opinion" bantering when explaining the difference between writing or explaining facts and writing an opinion piece. My 4th grade students were aghast at the government's willingness to be babies.

Winnieella · October 2013

I know everyone is talking about Canada vs the Us for health care, but I have something else that I just found out is affected. In my state Head Start is roughly 90% funded by the federal government. If this shut down continues guess what is getting shut down. I feel bad for the parents and kids that use head start now.

Winnieella · October 2013

TyrannosaurusLex said:

MrsJWoodJr said:

I know everyone is talking about Canada vs the Us for health care, but I have something else that I just found out is affected. In my state Head Start is roughly 90% funded by the federal government. If this shut down continues guess what is getting shut down. I feel bad for the parents and kids that use head start now.

Oh no that's horrible! Head Starts are very near and dear to my heart, I used to work for one and they are so important.

I have never worked for one, but as an educator I know just how important they are. If the shut down is longer than a week or two they are shutting down. I just can't believe it.

lbalek2 · October 2013

My husband is in the military and he will at least get paid this month. Just found out the commissaries are closing and that is where we do our shopping

We're going to have to spend more money now at the local supermarket. I also heard some military hospitals are closing. Made me wonder if they're going to stop medical coverage soon. Will I have to pay for my doctor visits out of pocket?!

ufsandra85 · October 2013

kforbs126 said:

I'm in the Navy as well as my husband and we are thankful they came to a resolution to pay us because we would have to have come to work and work without pay. I feel so bad for the civilians that can't afford to not have paychecks. I work with a lot of civilians and I know they were affected earlier in the year when they were furloughed now they are being affected again.

my husband and I are both in the Navy too

boogerbearoriginal · October 2013

=

FlightView said:

golfergirl08 said:

FlightView said:

I'm just throwing in a random comment. As Alaska Native I receive free health care because of my nationality. I pay for healthcare so I can go to a private Dr. The care I received at ANMC (Alaska Native Medical Center) was inadequate and inconsistent. It scares me to think people want to have healthcare like this, it is not all that it is cracked up to be. I know I will be flamed because crappy healthcare is better than no healthcare right? I would also like to point out that had my younger brother been born at the ANMC he would have died, he is now 19 thanks to Providence. At ANMC I have been misdiagnosed and given medication for the misdiagnosis.

This sounds like a doctor problem, and not a general healthcare problem. A different doctor might not have misdiagnosed you. Also, misdiagnosis/mistreatment could have occurred at a private doctor too. I don't know your situation, but that's just what it sounds like to me.

It is a general health care problem because the care that is provided albeit free, is not adequate. I believe the reason for this is because it is government funded

Inadequate care is a huge problem for people with all sorts of coverage. Just like there will always be shitty teachers, garbage men, financial managers, bank clerks, cashiers, office staff, etc. there are going to be shitty Drs that either are too stupid or just don't care to do their job well no matter who is footing the bill. Likewise there will be some amazing folks in those same jobs who do awesome work, regardless of who's footing the bill.

It never ceases to amaze me that despite evidence to the contrary, people continue to believe that private industry can/will always be superior to public sector. While gov is not the end all/be all provider of all things, nor should it be, there are many things the government does in fact do well. Providing services that don't have good profit margins but offer public good, like roadways and utilities and (dare I say health care), the government sector does fine - I mean, imagine life if all roads were tolls run by private businesses. As an example, after Hurricane Sandy hit, the public run electric utilities were up/running before the privately controlled utilities.

IMHO, the Canadian model isn't perfect, and no system ever will be. But the #1 cause of bankruptcy in America is medical bills AND our treatment outcomes are no better (and some cases worse) than other first world countries, yet we cannot accept this model isn't working?

Honestly, I don't have great hopes for the ACA because it merely forces more people into a horribly broken system. But I'm a stark raving liberal because I think all people should be able to see a Dr if they are sick, and all pg women should get equal access to prenatal care, and all children should get well vists throughout childhood. Parents shouldn't have to chose between a Dr visit copay for their sick kid and gas to get to work.

And no, it's not free - nothing is. But private insurance isn't free either, your premiums are based not only on your health history, but that of everyone covered by the company. You're paying for others whether you realize it or not.