Likelihood of miscarriage?

porterlove525 · August 2013

I'm sorry ladies, the trolls have definitely gotten to me and I am just so tired of people even needing to keep bringing this up. Its not meant specifically to offend the PP's in this thread, but the fact that people keep feeling the need to start threads about is PgAL ladies.

Between all the women complaining that we're being hormonal, mean, unsupportive or talking too much about our losses it's getting to be ridiculous. Can't we all just get along? If we want happy posts, how about we just stop creating threads that can even remotely be interpreted as being insulting to anyone? Or calling anyone out? That's all I'm asking for. Being PgAL is emotional enough.

porterlove525 · August 2013

Sugar Rush said:

douglamj said:

Was there a troll on the PGAL board?? Fuckin trolls....

I just had to look back and found an awful post here on April 2014 moms from yesterday... its called "is this site all about your cries..." what an awful post it was and even more surprising is all the "likes" under the original post. I haven't had a loss but it was an awful disgusting post to say to anyone.

Sugar, this is the exact troll eme was talking about. That thread and other comments recently have been very upsetting to a lot of us here. Waking up to see yet another post about PgAL after yesterday's is tough, at least for me.

cma318 · August 2013

I agree!!!!!

porterlove525 · August 2013

eme520 said:
@porterlove525 I think @ekmebm is right, the OP tried hard to word her post appropriately and then posted again within the thread that she was well-meaning. That being said, the damage that the troll did last night has caused some serious hurt in our community and I want to give you some (((hugs))). This has been a rough time for us.

ETA: The troll is by no means the OP, just to clarify for those who (thankfully) missed the drama last night

I'm definitely jaded from yesterday. Thank you for the hugs eme an hugs back to all of my ladies who were hurt yesterday.

douglamj · August 2013

Sugar Rush said:

douglamj said:

Was there a troll on the PGAL board?? Fuckin trolls....

I just had to look back and found an awful post here on April 2014 moms from yesterday... its called "is this site all about your cries..." what an awful post it was and even more surprising is all the "likes" under the original post. I haven't had a loss but it was an awful disgusting post to say to anyone.

Wow some people...I'm sorry to all of the PgAL ladies. Seriously that is absolutely fucking horrible.

LaurenElizabeth4 · August 2013

I remember never being worried about it, but in the past few years I've had several people close to me have terrible repeated losses (several m/c, several still births). Now I'm terrified instead of enjoying it.
My friends who experienced these repeated losses tell me "worrying will not help either way" which is true. But there's just been so many women I know recently who have struggled with multiple m/c and still births that I can't help but think "I shouldn't be happy until the baby is born", and I wish I could stop that, because that means I will spend my whole pregnancy scared and not excited.

ecrites · August 2013

PaL moms - I am so, so, grateful to have you in this group. This is my first pregnancy and yes, I am terrified, but I am also so pleased to be in this community of diverse experience. Yes, a group with no past pain may be a happier place, but diverse experience is a beautiful thing. We can learn from you, i like to think in some ways you will learn from us, and we all make each other stronger. Yesterday I was told i may be having a miscarriage. we still arent sure. No matter what happens, this group has been my strongest support and I am thankful you are here.

bthlgh · August 2013

"I shouldn't be happy until the baby is born", and I wish I could stop that, because that means I will spend my whole pregnancy scared and not excited.

I do this too. But the other day I was in a crowded parking lot and looking around I thought "all these people were born. They may not be perfect, but somebody carrief them and gave birth to them." It calmed me a bit.

jap618 · August 2013

@porterlove525 ((((hugs))))

porterlove525 · August 2013

LaurenElizabeth4 said:
I remember never being worried about it, but in the past few years I've had several people close to me have terrible repeated losses (several m/c, several still births). Now I'm terrified instead of enjoying it.
My friends who experienced these repeated losses tell me "worrying will not help either way" which is true. But there's just been so many women I know recently who have struggled with multiple m/c and still births that I can't help but think "I shouldn't be happy until the baby is born", and I wish I could stop that, because that means I will spend my whole pregnancy scared and not excited.

Lauren you should be happy your entire pregnancy. Even as scared as a PgAL woman is we are happy today and try to be happy every day. No woman should be robbed of that happiness and excitement. No one. And I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure none of us would ever want to rob you of that.

Stasi · August 2013

LaurenElizabeth4 said:

"I shouldn't be happy until the baby is born", and I wish I could stop that, because that means I will spend my whole pregnancy scared and not excited.

I remember having this exact same thought when I was pregnant with DD, but I realized it's futile. Because then the baby is born and there is a whole new slew of things to worry about, like SIDS, etc...

Then they start to crawl and walk and your afraid that they are going to crack their skulls open,

or the y start to eat finger foods and they might choke to death....

Then they go to school....you see where I'm going with this. It's best to leave the unnecessary worry behind right now. It doesn't do anyone any good and just causes anxiety.

ekmebm · August 2013

porterlove525 said:

I'm sorry ladies, the trolls have definitely gotten to me and I am just so tired of people even needing to keep bringing this up. Its not meant specifically to offend the PP's in this thread, but the fact that people keep feeling the need to start threads about is PgAL ladies. Between all the women complaining that we're being hormonal, mean, unsupportive or talking too much about our losses it's getting to be ridiculous. Can't we all just get along? If we want happy posts, how about we just stop creating threads that can even remotely be interpreted as being insulting to anyone? Or calling anyone out? That's all I'm asking for. Being PgAL is emotional enough.

@porterlove525 I think what the OP in this thread meant was "It seems like we have a lot of people with previous losses on this board. Are losses more common than I think, because I thought they were very rare?" And the answer to that question is that losses are way more common than the OP thought. It's not a slam against PgAL, it wasn't meant to call you gals out, it was a legit question from someone who was like "do I need new info, is the ratio here just high or is the ratio in the world higher than I thought". I think if you want people to stop complaining that PgAL people are "hormonal, mean, and unsupportive" then you need to step back, take a breath and decide if the post was a true question (like this one) or if it was intended to stir the pot. You overreacted to this one and went on a little rant and then you wonder why people are complaining....stop jumping all over them before understanding their intent. If this is their first pregnancy/time on the bump, they truly might not know this info, and your rant in this thread basically proves the point of the people who have complained.

tiffy81 · August 2013

How do we start a board that focuses on the pregnancy that we have now and not losses? I'm not trying to offend anyone but I would love a board where the focus is the future and not past losses and goodbyes.

squeakyfrog15 · August 2013

@ecrites I'm so sorry you are going through this! I hope things turn around for the better!

When I had my chemical pregnancy I didn't feel like I fit in with the other ladies dealing with loss because the whole pregnancy didn't feel real. But on this board I have been welcomed. I have made an effort to welcome as many other ladies as I can. I have also tried to post on every loss thread I can, because I hid my pain from everyone, even my husband. I'm young and feel the world is against me. I hope we can all find comfort in the joy of others and can comfort the ones who are experiencing a loss. I love you ladies and I hated reading that thread last night, but I'm sure something similar will happen again. I hope we can get past this soon, because I think we are almost done getting newbies and some of us are getting close to ending the first trimester. I personally have 4 more weeks, so we can do this!:)

douglamj · August 2013

tiffy81 said:

How do we start a board that focuses on the pregnancy that we have now and not losses? I'm not trying to offend anyone but I would love a board where the focus is the future and not past losses and goodbyes.

I'm sorry but I think this is insensitive. We are ALL pregnant women here despite our pasts. And why should someone be excluded because they have had a previous loss?

nursewinnie · August 2013

It's not that we first timers without losses feel that the pgal gals should stop talking about their experiences. For me, it is more that I have never experienced any of this and from what I'm reading on the boards, it's making it hard for me not to worry and to just carry on and planning for a healthy pregnancy. I agree with the idea that maybe we need our own board. Everyone deserves to have a forum in which they can share and be heard, but its difficult for those on the outside to constantly hear about all of the tragedy and still remain positive.

ekmebm · August 2013

@tiffy81 We don't start a board like that, and that comment is insulting. The losses and the miscarriages are part of some people's journeys to motherhood and it's awful to suggest that they not be allowed to mention them on this board. Even though those pregnancies didn't result in take home babies, those women have experiences and info to share from the time they were pregnant, they also have some unique perspectives that they will bring to this pregnancy. You don't pretend it never happened, and you don't ask them to pretend it never happened. In time, the focus of this board will shift, but right now, it's early on, so many people haven't seen heartbeats yet, are worried about the viability of their pregnancy and have some experience being this many weeks pregnant at least once before, so they've got some insight and things to say. Once we get out of first tri, typically it'll only be second time moms who have been that pregnant before, as second and third tri losses are much less common, and everyone will be out of the miscarriage window and the focus will shift the the current pregnancies. But man...you need to watch what you say and think before you post.

BeeBee08 · August 2013

@tiffy81 - "goodbyes" are going to be a normal part of ANY pregnancy board when people start posting at 3weeks pregnant! It's a normal part of any pregnancy board regardless. There are lots of posts on this board talking about the future. This post was specifically about losses...so if you don't want to read about them, don't open the post!

tiffy81 · August 2013

@ BeeBee08
@ekmebm

Isn't there a PGAL? The women who haven't experienced losses probably don't go on those boards to ask FTM type questions. So why should this birth month club be flooded with so many scary posts that worry FTM moms? And why is it insensitive for FTMs to want a board of their web where they don't have to see posts titled bleeding, goodbye or maybe next time? And I don't read any more of goodbye posts. Because I want to be excited about my babies not worried out of mind because every other hour someone is posting about their loss or something. Yes it's sad but there are boards for those topics and this shouldn't have to be one of them. The OP made valid points and shouldn't be crucified because she wants to read positive encouraging posts!

bthlgh · August 2013

Oh goodness, it's not offensive to want to focus on the future.

snmetz7 · August 2013

*rant* Pregnancy and motherhood is scary. there is a lot of loss which is unfortunately is a very normal part of the process. You can't just put us in a corner. Its not like if you close your eyes we will all just go away. a PP suggested that you have a FTP check in. this is a great idea. it will give you a thread once a week to be all rainbows and butterflies. real life gets in the way and we arent going to shut up about our experiences just because it brings YOU down. *end rant*

To the OP I found this info on stats for loss and I have included the link. Before my loss I had no idea they were so common then all of these strong women came out of the woodwork to tell me about their experiences. I had no idea that about 15 of the ppl i see on a daily basis have suffered from one.

For women in their childbearing years, the chances of having a miscarriage can range from 10-25%, and in most healthy women the average is about a 15-20% chance.

An increase in maternal age affects the chances of miscarriage
Women under the age of 35 yrs old have about a 15% chance of miscarriage
Women who are 35-45 yrs old have a 20-35% chance of miscarriage
Women over the age of 45 can have up to a 50% chance of miscarriage
A woman who has had a previous miscarriage has a 25% chance of having another (only a slightly elevated risk than for someone who has not had a previous miscarriage)

https://americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/miscarriage.html

Teresa1896 · August 2013

Although the op had good intentions I think this thread is taking on a life of its own and showing the divide between PGAL and non-PGAL. In any group of pregnant women, people will have different experiences and journeys that have brought them to where they are. You can't choose to segregate yourself with people "just like you-" thats just not how the world works. I think we all have something to learn from each other here (that sounds awfully kumbayah, but oh well!).
I enjoy discussions with loss mamas because we share the same fears and worries, and we understand how hard this journey can be. But I also enjoy being on this board and having a place to just rejoice with other moms and try to remember that this is a happy and exciting time too.

boxerbabylove · August 2013

porterlove525 I truly apologize to have upset you. I really was trying very hard to prevent these kinds of responses. I don't feel I was rude or ignorant to you or any of my fellow PgAL ladies. If I was I apologize sincerely. I have experienced a loss, and it was probably the worst thing I've ever been through. I may not shout it from the rooftops but that is just who I am. I don't like to talk about it. It hurts and opens horrible old wounds. I'm working on that but that wasn't the point of this thread.

If you would like to talk, or need to me clarify my reason for posting please PM me. And I apologize again for upsetting you and any other ladies out there with my questions.

bthlgh · August 2013

No one wants to put anyone in a corner! Any one of us could end up suffering a loss tomorrow. That is not what any of this is about. Is it too much that a few of us just want a place where we can go and not feel like every question we ask is going to be filled with doom and make us feel bad for being ftm who don't know anything yet? If anything maybe we are asking for our own little corner.
I'm sure I just offended someone, but I no longer know how to avoid that. I have learned here that someone will always find a way to twist words.

douglamj · August 2013

tiffy81 said:

@ BeeBee08 @ekmebm Isn't there a PGAL? The women who haven't experienced losses probably don't go on those boards to ask FTM type questions. So why should this birth month club be flooded with so many scary posts that worry FTM moms? And why is it insensitive for FTMs to want a board of their web where they don't have to see posts titled bleeding, goodbye or maybe next time? And I don't read any more of goodbye posts. Because I want to be excited about my babies not worried out of mind because every other hour someone is posting about their loss or something. Yes it's sad but there are boards for those topics and this shouldn't have to be one of them. The OP made valid points and shouldn't be crucified because she wants to read positive encouraging posts!

Do you realize many women who have had a loss/losses ARE FTM? So then you are excluding them just for that reason. How is that NOT insensitive?

thomas930 · August 2013

nursewinnie said:

It's not that we first timers without losses feel that the pgal gals should stop talking about their experiences. For me, it is more that I have never experienced any of this and from what I'm reading on the boards, it's making it hard for me not to worry and to just carry on and planning for a healthy pregnancy. I agree with the idea that maybe we need our own board. Everyone deserves to have a forum in which they can share and be heard, but its difficult for those on the outside to constantly hear about all of the tragedy and still remain positive.

I'm sorry but if someone asks a questions I'm going to be honest and if my loss is part of my answer then I'm going to mention it...I'm not going to fill people up with false hope and lie about something happening not happening. Non of us are doctors so all of our advice comes from our experience and background....that includes things that aren't always happy.

Example: One of the recurring things on this board lately has been all the people worried about their lack of symptoms or their fading symptoms. If I'm sharing my experience its going to involve my successful pregnancies and my unsuccessful.

Heeb918 · August 2013

tiffy81 said:

@ BeeBee08 @ekmebm Isn't there a PGAL? The women who haven't experienced losses probably don't go on those boards to ask FTM type questions. So why should this birth month club be flooded with so many scary posts that worry FTM moms? And why is it insensitive for FTMs to want a board of their web where they don't have to see posts titled bleeding, goodbye or maybe next time? And I don't read any more of goodbye posts. Because I want to be excited about my babies not worried out of mind because every other hour someone is posting about their loss or something. Yes it's sad but there are boards for those topics and this shouldn't have to be one of them. The OP made valid points and shouldn't be crucified because she wants to read positive encouraging posts!

Why the hell wouldn't we go and ask FTM questions anywhere? You need to be careful with how you word that. I have yet to be a FTM but I've been pregnant 3 times. Losing a pregnancy is part of life. So if you want all P&R then I suggest babygaga. Who are you to tell someone that they can't post a goodbye message when they are in such pain? More than likely, everyone is not telling the world they are pregnant yet so to them this is their only audience. For example, if you had some friends that you told about your pregnancy in one room, and a bunch of strangers in another, would you rather get consolation from your friends with bad news or the strangers?? Easy answer. Take it easy on the PGAL ladies. I sure as hell wish that I would have known the actual chances of losing my baby, because the first time it happened I was blindsided.

pineconey · August 2013

Can of worms.... I told you.

And @tiffy81 if you want to live in a perfect pregnancy dream world, then find somewhere else to camp out until April. The women here are REAL. We have STRUGGLES. And for some of us, that WILL mean loss. Deal with it, or find somewhere else to go.

nursewinnie · August 2013

The fact that it all becomes such a huge deal when anyone mentions that they don't want to hear about miscarriages or the fact that almost every other post is about loss has made me want to completely stop coming on the discussion forums. I feel that being in my personal situation of first pregnancy without loss so far has made me not worthy of support as well if I don't want to hear about it all te time. I'm pretty much debating just deleting the bump app all together seeing as when I share an opinion or someone else shares an opinion similar to mine, they get crucified for not being sensitive. Maybe it's not all about you, maybe there are other people out there with other experiences. The op was very tactful and very respectful. Some people are reading into everything far too much. So there, go ahead and rip me a new one dr disagreeing. I don't wish loss on anyone and I pray for healthy happy pregnancies for everyone. This is just getting to be too much.

nursewinnie · August 2013

And I write that with my phone so obviously there are typos.

ekmebm · August 2013

@tiffy81 Reread the entire thread and you'll see that I stuck up for the OP. I then called you out, because your post was offensive, and I've never had a loss, and it still offended me on their behalf. I don't even know how to respond to you, because I'm fairly certain you're not intelligent or compassionate enough to understand what I say anyway. All I want to say is "Oh no she didn't!" but here goes anyways....

Morning sickness is morning sickness, bloat is bloat, cravings are cravings. It doesn't matter if it results in a loss or a baby in the end. They've been there before and have some insight. A pregnancy after a loss is just like a first time pregnancy....only a little bit scarier since you've been there before and it didn't end well.

Spotting can happen to anyone, and it is scary no matter what. Sometimes it results in a miscarriage and sometimes it results in a healthy baby. But many of the PgAL girls have experienced that as well and have insight.

Your pregnancy will not be all sunshine and rainbows and neither will a pregnancy board, and since many people haven't shared their pregnancy with their friends and family yet, this is where they turn when the scary stuff happens. I hope you never have to make a goodbye post, but if you do, I hope you are treated with a little respect, instead of being told "no one wants to read about your dead baby because that isn't happy".

This is their birth month board. They have every right to post here, and ffs, as a second time mom, at least their posts aren't insanely annoying like so many of the ftm posts are.

thomas930 · August 2013

There is always a the 1st tri board....ya'll who don't want to be here can move on

ETA: and if those that have been posting here since their BFP don't post to let us know about their loss then we would be left wondering what happened to them....I don't know about you but I'm already starting to recognize names around here even if I didn't "know" them before this board.

bthlgh · August 2013

nursewinnie said:
The fact that it all becomes such a huge deal when anyone mentions that they don't want to hear about miscarriages or the fact that almost every other post is about loss has made me want to completely stop coming on the discussion forums. I feel that being in my personal situation of first pregnancy without loss so far has made me not worthy of support as well if I don't want to hear about it all te time. I'm pretty much debating just deleting the bump app all together seeing as when I share an opinion or someone else shares an opinion similar to mine, they get crucified for not being sensitive. Maybe it's not all about you, maybe there are other people out there with other experiences. The op was very tactful and very respectful. Some people are reading into everything far too much. So there, go ahead and rip me a new one dr disagreeing. I don't wish loss on anyone and I pray for healthy happy pregnancies for everyone. This is just getting to be too much.

I couldn't agree more.

douglamj · August 2013

FTM here...I feel SUPER supported, especially by the PgAL ladies....

Marusika · August 2013

Survey says that the percent of pregnancy loss lows dramatically after 12 weeks. I was reading all those SURVEYS.. THEN, ater 23 weeks I was reading surveys about preemies..I was doing that every week, at 31 weeks my baby had over 90% chances of survival. And I was calm then. But she just died in my womb. So despites the percentages we have of misscariage/ preterm birth.. we are unique, this pregnancy is unique and it`s outcome is unique. Those percentages are pretty much useless .. What will be will be..

TheatreStar86 · August 2013

There has ALREADY been a discussion (see pages 1-2) about how there can be a FTP check-in. There's your happy place. Just like we mostly discuss our fears in our PgAL check-in. However, if there's a discussion about something loss-related, or early appointments, or fear of viability, the PgAL women will answer questions. Why? Because it's something we have experience with and we're trying to help! If you don't want to see relevant answers, why open the thread? It's a reality, as many PP have said, that miscarriage is a common occurrence. For us, or the unfortunate FTP women here who go through a loss, to not mention our "troubles" doesn't make it any less likely for you.

I saw no PgAL's ranting about all of the discussion of previous children that we had a week or so ago. Many of us don't have them. But did we jump in and complain? No.

porterlove525 · August 2013

Mrs+Hebert said:

tiffy81 said:

@ BeeBee08 @ekmebm Isn't there a PGAL? The women who haven't experienced losses probably don't go on those boards to ask FTM type questions. So why should this birth month club be flooded with so many scary posts that worry FTM moms? And why is it insensitive for FTMs to want a board of their web where they don't have to see posts titled bleeding, goodbye or maybe next time? And I don't read any more of goodbye posts. Because I want to be excited about my babies not worried out of mind because every other hour someone is posting about their loss or something. Yes it's sad but there are boards for those topics and this shouldn't have to be one of them. The OP made valid points and shouldn't be crucified because she wants to read positive encouraging posts!

Why the hell wouldn't we go and ask FTM questions anywhere? You need to be careful with how you word that. I have yet to be a FTM but I've been pregnant 3 times. Losing a pregnancy is part of life. So if you want all P&R then I suggest babygaga. Who are you to tell someone that they can't post a goodbye message when they are in such pain? More than likely, everyone is not telling the world they are pregnant yet so to them this is their only audience. For example, if you had some friends that you told about your pregnancy in one room, and a bunch of strangers in another, would you rather get consolation from your friends with bad news or the strangers?? Easy answer. Take it easy on the PGAL ladies. I sure as hell wish that I would have known the actual chances of losing my baby, because the first time it happened I was blindsided.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make.

BeeBee08 · August 2013

@nursewinnie - everyone agrees that OP was respectful and tactful. In fact, many people agree with her and suggested a "first pregnancy" check-in.

@tiffy81 - I seriously hope that you never experience the pain of needing to write a "bleeding, goodbye, or maybe next time post". Your ideal board would be full of those posts.

astrnad · August 2013

@playingonadream, thank you so much for bringing this up. As a FTM I have definitely been very nervous about this pregnancy. I'm freaked out that I'm going to lose the baby, and I don't think I'm going to let myself be excited until after I see that first heartbeat. I'm not sure whether this is due to all the miscarriage posts but it might be. I feel really sorry for everyones losses but man, knowing about everyone elses scary experiences kind of puts a damper on things!

PaddysGirl8 · August 2013

@ BeeBee08 @ekmebm Isn't there a PGAL? The women who haven't experienced losses probably don't go on those boards to ask FTM type questions. So why should this birth month club be flooded with so many scary posts that worry FTM moms? And why is it insensitive for FTMs to want a board of their web where they don't have to see posts titled bleeding, goodbye or maybe next time? And I don't read any more of goodbye posts. Because I want to be excited about my babies not worried out of mind because every other hour someone is posting about their loss or something. Yes it's sad but there are boards for those topics and this shouldn't have to be one of them. The OP made valid points and shouldn't be crucified because she wants to read positive encouraging posts!

So if a FTM chats on a "normal pregnancy board" for several weeks and gets friendly with others but then heaven forbid miscarries, she shouldn't say goodbye? She doesn't deserves the condolences from the women she has talked to for weeks? Please, this world isn't all rainbows and unicorns.

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