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Attachment Parenting
JellyTwoPointO
member
TTC since Aug 2011. BFP #1 on 10/28/2011 EDD of 07/02/2012 Natural MC on 11/22/2012 BFP #2 on 10/28/2012 EDD of 7/13/13 Judah Ari born on 7/11/13.
I love my rainbow baby!
Butting heads
JellyTwoPointO
member
So far, DH and I have done a really good job in co-parenting and when we discuss our beliefs, we're pretty much on the same page. But there's two AP style issues that we seem to experience conflict over and I was wondering if anyone else has gone through this or has some advice.
The first is bed sharing. Originally I did not want to bed share. I was fine with the RnP next to the bed. But DS is colicky and it was DH who kept urging me to bed share to see if DS slept better that way. I should note that DH's work schedule is a late second shift, so he doesn't come to bed till about 4-5 am. We only have a double bed and we are always fighting and nudging each other for space as it is, so I don't feel safe bedsharing with DH also in our bed. Yet if I start DS out in my bed and try to move him at 4 am when DH wants to come to bed, DS notices, wakes up, screams, and then I have the work of trying to get him back to sleep. So I tried asking DH if he would please sleep on the couch, at least until I woke up at around 8 am. He got really upset and pissed off at me, but he did it. I really want to bed share now and DS sleeps better when in my bed, but I don't trust DH in our small bed with the two of us, DS wakes up if I try to move him, and DH is getting mad at the idea of sleeping on the couch for half the night... Does anyone see a solution or compromise to this?
My second issue is breast/bottle feeding. I'm a SAHM so really, there's no NEED to bottle feed. I'm happy EBFing my son and most of my socialization is with other moms, so I don't have much of a need or desire to be away from DS. My husband has always talked about how much he believed in breast feeding and how he advocates for it, but he keeps making comments over and over about how he can't wait for me to start pumping so that he can feed our son too. But... I really don't want to do this. Pumping takes a lot of extra time and work and it can also mess with your milk supply. Plus, I'm a SAHM so this isn't really a need. I keep trying to involve DH in other ways like tummy time, holding, diaper changes, etc... But DH keeps going back to comments about wanting to give DS a bottle. I'm not sure how to address this without discouraging him or seeming selfish... Does anyone have a possible compromise idea?
The first is bed sharing. Originally I did not want to bed share. I was fine with the RnP next to the bed. But DS is colicky and it was DH who kept urging me to bed share to see if DS slept better that way. I should note that DH's work schedule is a late second shift, so he doesn't come to bed till about 4-5 am. We only have a double bed and we are always fighting and nudging each other for space as it is, so I don't feel safe bedsharing with DH also in our bed. Yet if I start DS out in my bed and try to move him at 4 am when DH wants to come to bed, DS notices, wakes up, screams, and then I have the work of trying to get him back to sleep. So I tried asking DH if he would please sleep on the couch, at least until I woke up at around 8 am. He got really upset and pissed off at me, but he did it. I really want to bed share now and DS sleeps better when in my bed, but I don't trust DH in our small bed with the two of us, DS wakes up if I try to move him, and DH is getting mad at the idea of sleeping on the couch for half the night... Does anyone see a solution or compromise to this?
My second issue is breast/bottle feeding. I'm a SAHM so really, there's no NEED to bottle feed. I'm happy EBFing my son and most of my socialization is with other moms, so I don't have much of a need or desire to be away from DS. My husband has always talked about how much he believed in breast feeding and how he advocates for it, but he keeps making comments over and over about how he can't wait for me to start pumping so that he can feed our son too. But... I really don't want to do this. Pumping takes a lot of extra time and work and it can also mess with your milk supply. Plus, I'm a SAHM so this isn't really a need. I keep trying to involve DH in other ways like tummy time, holding, diaper changes, etc... But DH keeps going back to comments about wanting to give DS a bottle. I'm not sure how to address this without discouraging him or seeming selfish... Does anyone have a possible compromise idea?
TTC since Aug 2011. BFP #1 on 10/28/2011 EDD of 07/02/2012 Natural MC on 11/22/2012 BFP #2 on 10/28/2012 EDD of 7/13/13 Judah Ari born on 7/11/13.
I love my rainbow baby!
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Butting heads
Breastfeeding Counselor with Breastfeeding USA
Babywearing Guide ** Newborn Carriers
Cloth Diaper Guide
Safe Bed Sharing Info
After about 2 times feeding her, DH was pretty over it. It wasn't the magic bonding experience he thought it would be. It was kind of boring for him.
Elizabeth 5yrs old Jane 3yrs old
DH may benefit from these ideas: https://www.llli.org/docs/0000000000000001WAB/WAB_Tear_sheet_Toolkit/10_what_about_partners.pdf
Bedsharing: You could extend the surface area of your bed by sidecarring a crib with the mattress at the same level as yours.
I do understand your DH being upset about the sleeping arrangement though. And we bed share for part of each night, so I'm not against it. I like the pp suggestion about sidecarring a crib mattress so that your DH gets to sleep in his own bed. Bed sharing is only working when it's working for everyone involved.
You could get a bigger bed or sidecar your crib.
I don't pump. Daddy doesn't need to give a bottle just for fun, although you may find it nice for baby to take one so you can leave sometimes, so introducing one isn't a bad idea. My DH loved feeding our DS1 when I pumped, so the "he'll be bored" idea might backfire. Once baby is more alert and mobile, your DH will like playing more, until then he can wait. No need to cause double the work and discomfort for you just so DH can bottle feed.
Ditto to the babywearing suggestion from PPs too.
Why make her feel guilty about doing what's absolutely natural and right for her and her baby? You're the jerk!
The thing is I don't understand that if a dad expressed a strong desire to feed baby why a mom would say no. I get that in the beginning you would want to avoid bottle feeding as much as possible to make sure bf is well established. I could understand if you're a working mom and you barely make enough milk that you wouldn't want to miss another nursing session. If you have an adequate milk supply and no other underlying issues I don't see a compelling reason to tell your dh no to feeding if he longs for that experience.
Unfortunately buying a bigger bed is not in the budget and it wouldn't fit in our tiny room anyway. And our bed is already against the wall but the frame is on wheels and we have a hardwood floor, so I would worry about it shifting just enough for DS to get wedged.
As for the person who called me a jerk in regards to bottle feeding, I agree with PP to simmer down. It was always my desire that DS be EBF because I personally feel it is what's most healthy and natural. For almost all of civilization, the bottle versus breast conversation wouldn't have even been a consideration. I don't want to have to give in to giving my baby a bottle just because its a modern convenience that happens to exist. Having beliefs about exclusive breast feeding doesn't make me a jerk.
TTC since Aug 2011. BFP #1 on 10/28/2011 EDD of 07/02/2012 Natural MC on 11/22/2012 BFP #2 on 10/28/2012 EDD of 7/13/13 Judah Ari born on 7/11/13.
I love my rainbow baby!
AND when she's old enough and showing signs of readiness to start solid foods, guess who can totally do that?! Daddy!
But you're not giving your baby a bottle as giving into a modern convenience. It's allowing your dh to experience something he wants to experience as a parent. Denying him that for no good reason and just because you don't feel like doing it is selfish IMO.
It's not "for no good reason" that she wishes to EBF. My goodness I'm so surprised at the lack of support for moms who want to EBF on this board! This mama and her DH will have to discuss what is important to them and come to a compromise. I think you ladies are being incredibly unfair to her.
FWIW, OP, my future babies will never see a bottle. If for some reason I need to leave them some pumped BM sometime, I'll have it spoon or dropper fed, or sipped from a cup.
DH is totally ok with this and super supporive of my EBF. He sees the feeding of milk as a job for a mama, and he and DH are as attached as can be. DS LOVES his daddy so so much, and can't wait for him to get home from work to play.
As far as the bottles, I'm in agreement with the pps who have said it's not necessary. Yes, he wants to feed the baby. I want to pee standing up. Unfortunately neither of us has the equipment for it. I feel really strongly about EBF, I don't want to be part of reinforcing the idea that bottle feeding is the norm or an expected and necessary party of my baby's life, or that feeding is necessary for bonding. There are literally hundreds of other things dads can do with babies for fun and bonding. It's ~6 months, then dad can feed his heart out.
I wasn't the one who called you a jerk, but I did suggest you let your husband try feeding your son -
I don't think you are being a jerk or, necessarily selfish by not wanting to pump or bottle feed but if your huband keeps asking you about it knowing this is how you feel, there must be something to it - either he really wants to feed his child too or he's feeling pushed aside in general and these are the two things he's focusing on as a way to connect with his child and reconnect with you. Have a heart to heart with him and really try to figure out what he's asking/struggling with. We see so many posts, especially in 0-3 boards, about husands not feeling as connected to their new babies. Your husband is trying to find ways to connect. That's awesome. Give him a chance.
I'm not advocating pumping or giving your child a bottle to the detriment of your milk supply or at the risk of creating any nipple confusion issues, but if you try pumping (use a hand pump like someone suggested) and try a bottle and there aren't any issues, you could potentially be doing a lot to help your husband achieve some of his desired bonding opportunities too. To me, that's worth a try.
I support moms who want to feed their children breast milk exclusively. I also support dads being involved in the process of child rearing. If it means that much to dad to have that moment with their child, I would never deny it based on how I thought a baby should be fed.
So.... It is in no way that I have no heart for him wanting to be involved. I've tried to create ways for him to be involved. Some opportunities he takes and others he blows. I will ask him what it is about feeding DS that matters so much, but I'm glad there's a few other moms on an attachment parenting board that understand the importance of EBFing. Once DS starts solid foods at 6-8 months, anyone can be a part of that, but I never wanted DS to use a bottle, especially since its not due to some extreme circumstance making it necessary.
TTC since Aug 2011. BFP #1 on 10/28/2011 EDD of 07/02/2012 Natural MC on 11/22/2012 BFP #2 on 10/28/2012 EDD of 7/13/13 Judah Ari born on 7/11/13.
I love my rainbow baby!
I guess we just have different definitions of exclusively breast feeding. To me that's providing your child with solely breast milk as their source of nutrition. Using an occasional bottle of expressed milk whether it be to reconnect on a date night or have dad strengthen his bond with his child doesn't negate that IMO. As an outsider looking in, if your reasoning is because you don't want to and his reasoning is that he wants that particular bonding experience, his reasoning seems more compelling.
If you can't buy a bigger bed, I agree with the idea to side car the crib at the same level, but make sure it's safe and cannot come disconnected. ANother option would be to put the mattress on the floor and add a twin mattress next to it - like one big bed. You and LO can be on the full mattress and Dh on the twin. Of course, if you don't have room for a bigger bed, you might not have room for this either. Could you afford to get another double size mattress and put it in LO's room and you and LO sleep in there together? I don't actually think that that is a good option either - I personally don't like the idea of sleeping in a separate room from DH for more than a night or two, but that seems like it would be better than one of you sleeping on the couch!
As for bottle feeding, eh, I don't think you should care that much about it. At the same time, I don't think your DH should care so much either. If your LO is about a month old, it is an optimal time to introduce a bottle. There's nothing wrong with the occasional bottle with expressed milk (shoot, my LO gets three a day while I'm at work!) and you might wish your LO would take a bottle a few months from now when you want to go out to dinner with girlfriends or something! I don't see this issue as a huge deal either way though - it's just strange to me that someone wouldn't want their baby to take a bottle... ever... but whatevs. It's your family so you guys just have to communicate and figure out what works for you.
All that said, it sounds to me like you guys need to have a serious conversation - based on your follow up posts, I think there are some underlying issues that you guys need to address. If he is gone from 2:30 pm to 4 am, that is a REALLY long time to be gone - that's a 14 hour work day!! I don't know, it just sounds to me like some adjustments are in order if you and he want him to be an active part of LO's daily routine (whether through feeding or otherwise).
Oh FFS, seriously? Welcome to adventures in missing the point.
Anyway, my point in what I said above was that people were telling me there's lots of other ways that DH can be involved outside of giving a bottle so I was saying how there's lots of ways he is already involved and how I've tried to encourage that but there's also a lot of opportunities he could be having that he just skips out on. (Like sleeping in so late that he has no time to see his son before work or telling me he wants to babywear but then not doing it now that we have a carrier -- which HE picked out, btw)
TTC since Aug 2011. BFP #1 on 10/28/2011 EDD of 07/02/2012 Natural MC on 11/22/2012 BFP #2 on 10/28/2012 EDD of 7/13/13 Judah Ari born on 7/11/13.
I love my rainbow baby!
In general, my advice is to give it all some time. Dads have a hard time bonding with newborns sometimes, and that is totally normal. It sounds like your DH is struggling to find a way to feel more a part of things. This will get better in time as your DS gets more interactive, but for now it's important to recognize that your DH is trying to reach out and find his place. Involve him where appropriate and try not to criticize him for not doing things he said he would do.
For your specific questions, my theory on sleep is to do whatever gets everyone the most sleep possible. A double bed is not going to do that for three people, so you either need to change the bed situation or move somebody to another room. If you put the mattress on the floor without a frame, could you fit another mattress in there next to it?
On the feeding issue, I think you can compromise by telling your DH that you want to wait until DS is older and BFing is more established before you start to pump. Then, I think you should give it a try on occasion because it will allow your DH to experience bottle feeding and it could give you some baby-free time to run out somewhere from time to time if all goes well. If it doesn't work well and/or is a huge pain, cross that bridge when you come to it. But I do think you should consider at least trying it before you discard the idea altogether.
Re: Bottles - you have it decided that EBF = no bottles, which isn't how I've seen that defined and truly, why is this principle of "no bottles" more important than your husband's wishes? Your H is expressing a strong desire to feed LO, what is the grave harm in letting him experience that? Sometimes marriage is about compromise. My LO took a bottle since I returned to work FT, and it's in no way effected our breastfeeding relationship. He still nurses, a lot actually lol. And your H may realize it's not the wondrous time he was expecting and drop the idea after a few feedings. OR he may really enjoy it and you might enjoy having the freedom to leave for short periods, if need be as well.
I think there are some underlying issues at play based on your f/u posts about H's lack of involvement in the daily tasks. He is sleeping all day, and staying up all night and not spending any time with you or with baby. That's not healthy for either relationship.
I agree with KC_13. I say that I EBF my son, but he took BM bottles too. While some of you say the AP board isn't supporting moms who want to EBF; remember it goes both ways. Negative comments or connotations about bottles are just as demeaning to those who pump and consider themselves EBF.
To the original post:
Bedsharing: What about putting your mattress on the floor. You mentioned that your floor is hardwood so you could buy a rug for under your side. Then your H could sleep between wall and you. Baby between you and other side-- even add a bedrail. I do think it's unreasonable to ask husband to sleep on the couch. Yes, he falls asleep on his own, but it different to specifically ask him.
Bottle feeding: My H LOVED feeding my little one bottles. He definitely bonded that way (plus other ways). I worked so most of my milk went with LO during the day, but sometimes LO would take a bottle at night from Dad and I'd pump instead. (Actually, sometimes I would pump more than LO could eat in a feeding- bonus!)
I don't think it's fair to ignore/discount H's desire because you only want to nurse. It he wanted you to do a formula bottle, then absolutely not. But a bottle of pumped milk typically isn't going to hurt things. (This probably goes back to my definition of EBF.) I say give it a try a couple of times as a compromise and then talk with your husband about it he really likes it or not and how you don't like pumping. He should appreciate your effort and willingness to compromise.
You could also talk to him about when and how you are going to introduce solids. My H looked forward to solids because that got to be "his thing".
TTC since Aug 2011. BFP #1 on 10/28/2011 EDD of 07/02/2012 Natural MC on 11/22/2012 BFP #2 on 10/28/2012 EDD of 7/13/13 Judah Ari born on 7/11/13.
I love my rainbow baby!
I think some people (or maybe it's just me overthinking it? lol) are not opposed to bottles if/when needed or wanted (plenty of pps here work and pump for daycare bottles or date nights) but are opposed to the culture of bottle feeding or the idea that bottlefeeding is such a normal part of babyhood that even an EBF baby should get frequent bottles, and that dads should expect to bottlefeed their babies as part of being a dad.
I think some people (or maybe it's just me overthinking it? lol) are not opposed to bottles if/when needed or wanted (plenty of pps here work and pump for daycare bottles or date nights) but are opposed to the culture of bottle feeding or the idea that bottlefeeding is such a normal part of babyhood that even an EBF baby should get frequent bottles, and that dads should expect to bottlefeed their babies as part of being a dad.
Thank you. I realize now that I probably misread what pp was saying - that she actually was suggesting that since the baby did not want the bottle, there were other options; not that a sippy was okay but a bottle was not. I appreciate your response.
That's exactly what I meant. Lots of babies (DS included) won't take a bottle, and it can be very stressful for mama and baby when a situation arises such that an alternative method of feeding baby is necessary, and they don't take a bottle!
Too few mamas know that there are other options for feeding breastmilk when mama's breasts aren't available. And in the case of a very young baby when breastfeeding isn't yet well established, it can be better to avoid bottles so that there is no risk for nipple confusion. A two month old can sip from a cup or spoon and go right back to nursing with no problem.