circumcision(not trying to start a debate)

EMT12resq · August 2013

I chose not to have DS circumcised, for many reasons, including that DH is not....sorry for TMI. I got a lot of grief about it from my family but hearing both my family and DH family side of the story I was convienced I would not have it done.

Well a friend of mine is anti-circumcision, she posts things all the time about it, not taking others feelings into consideration. Tonight she posted a youtube link, showing the procedure! Why I felt the need to watch it, idk, but OMG! I feel 100% that I made the right decision for my family. I couldnt even watch it all, i almost passed out, the baby was screaming, oh lord! I just wish I wouldnt have opened the link! Im seriously crying!

I believe everyone chooses what is right for their family. I do not judge at all when it comes to these kind of topics so Im honestly not trying to start a debate. I just hope everyone does their research and weighs the options.

This is more of a vent....im scarred

SvedkaStoli · August 2013

Circumcision is a heated topic so be prepared. It's good that you feel confident in your decision. That said, if my baby is a boy, he will be circumcised since this a a part of our family's belief system.

[Deleted User] · August 2013

This is a hot topic and I will try to be diplomatic. To each is own and obviously you are free to make this decision about your child. The reason circumcision is done so early in the child's life is because it's much less painful to him. I have been present at home circumcisions (religious) and have family members that had their children circumcised in the hospital. It heals on average within 2 weeks and the child is usually just in discomfort for one day. I urge you to read up on the benefits of curcumcision, as there are many.

susieandmarty · August 2013

This is a religious matter for me and probably many other girls here. Rarely do I say this but op i find that your post is very pretty offensive and pointless. I generally go with the flow here but not on this. You don't want to start a debate so you decide to post here? I'm sorry you saw a video that disturbed you. Don't watch videos of circumcision from an anti-circumcision advocate - pretty sure that is common sense if you don't want to be upset.

CopperT0p · August 2013

Everybody is entitled to choose what they want for their kids, from circumcision to how we parent.

We didn't, my SIL did with her two boys, and nobody has ever given us grief about it. The being said we never made a big deal about it and didn't announce what we were doing either way.

vstevens · August 2013

I have to agree with PPs. What was the purpose of this post if NOT to start a debate? It's a hot button issue for a lot of people. And in my opinion, both sides have perfectly valid positions. It doesn't feel like something worth arguing about (unlike the indefensible positions of anti-vaxers, which I will argue against all day long).

SweetPeaKate · August 2013

We did it with my DS, and because he was a preemie too small to do it before discharge we had it done as an outpatient procedure a week later by our pediatrician. I stayed and watched the whole thing and to be honest, he was crying/screaming way before they ever touched him for the procedure. The babies really hate being tied down to the cold board which is what made DS so upset. But to each his own!

susieandmarty · August 2013

vstevens said:
I have to agree with PPs. What was the purpose of this post if NOT to start a debate? It's a hot button issue for a lot of people. And in my opinion, both sides have perfectly valid positions. It doesn't feel like something worth arguing about (unlike the indefensible positions of anti-vaxers, which I will argue against all day long).

I agree. Your baby your choice, but when people come online like op and really post something inflammatory, one sided and pointless it just gets my panties in a bunch - and panties is my least favorite word so you can imagine how irritated I have to be to write it twice.

Lena122 · August 2013

OP it sounds to me like you are trying to start a debate. The baby was likely screaming because that's what babies do when they're a little uncomfortable. When DS had his done, they used a numbing cream so he didn't feel it. He still cried because he cried every time you took his diaper off.

ac1259 · August 2013

As a nurse who was present at one for clinical...I couldn't believe how it was done and told my husband ever since that it was his decision because I would have a hard time choosing to do that to my baby. But from the other side of things, my nephew wasn't at birth and wound up having issues where he had to have it done at 3...when he was aware and it was full blown surgery...and let me tell you the baby gets over it quicker!

brideandbreve · August 2013

PreDempsey · August 2013

Bookshelves said:

"Not trying to start a debate... but here's why anyone who disagrees with me is wrong." :-@

"I just hope everyone is doing their research" :-SS

MindyBadger1 · August 2013

Guess I'll throw in my $.02.

I've performed dozens of circumcisions. Obviously there are various methods for anesthesia and procedure method, and you should educate yourself on them and which ones your hospital/doctors use.

We injected lidocaine into both sides of the penis for clamp or plastibel. Sometimes babies flipped out, sometimes they slept through the whole thing. I guarantee they felt 2 shots into their penis, and that after they felt nothing else from a pain perspective.

I think some babies lose their brains because either they are hungry or it's just an uncomfortable position. They're used to floating around in the uterus, now they are strapped on a papoose board. In my hospital, an extra person was always there to comfort the baby with sugar water, a paci, and some shushes.

My recommendation? I'm completely neutral on the topic. It is absolutely an individual decision and no one should have an opinion on.

ETA: We will be circumcising LO. Simply because DH wants to and to avoid an awkward question down the future when the 2 are bathing.

I will NOT be watching the procedure... DH can if he wants to. I trust the medical professionals.

gina0485 · August 2013

Yeah... inflammatory. Thanks for makings those of us with boys to be who are opting to have this done feel like shit. That video is exactly what we all needed - more fear.

MindyBadger1 · August 2013

benjaminsmommy16 said:

Kvochka said:

This is a hot topic and I will try to be diplomatic. To each is own and obviously you are free to make this decision about your child. The reason circumcision is done so early in the child's life is because it's much less painful to him. I have been present at home circumcisions (religious) and have family members that had their children circumcised in the hospital. It heals on average within 2 weeks and the child is usually just in discomfort for one day. I urge you to read up on the benefits of curcumcision, as there are many.
It's just as painful to a newborn as it is to an adult. And what are the benefits? Foreskins aren't as clean? If that's what your are saying, then you should get circumcised too. I don't understand how every single mamal on the planet does just fine with a foreskin except for american men. If women you wouldn't circumcise your baby girl, why would you do it to your son? Girls have foreskins too, so it's only fair.

Educate yourself. There are proven pros and cons.

Also, look into female circumcision and what that entails.

Saltina11 · August 2013

Just remember a lot of people do this for religious reasons and that is why I steer clear of this debate, no matter what my personal feelings on the topic.

JaneW2 · August 2013

After carefully studying the evidence from both sides, this is one of those parenting decisions where both choices are OK. A very few uncircumcised boys will develop problems as a result, but that's not a strong reason to do it. It does hurt them a little, but with anesthesia and clean instruments, that's not a strong reason against.

Personally, I will do it for religious reasons, if I produce a son. I will also ignore and/or laugh at anyone who tries to claim that it's either absolutely medically necessary for normal infants, or that it's some form of dreadful mutilation, equivalent to female circumcision.

Roses87 · August 2013

I work in ob and see them all the time they are strapped down and that's what they mainly scream about. They do feel the poke that numbs the penis. But after that they do not feel the procedure some babies very more than others some don't cry at all. Now I could take it or leave it. My husband is a dr and is dead set in having it done. Said there are benefits to it. I Told him he can sign to have it done but I would not stop it.

Now I have a friend who husband was not and was having a lot of problems and just had to get circumcised as an adult. After hearing that story it kind of makes me want to do it when they are young and can't remember it vs. As an adult. I know it doesn't happen to everyone but it can happen.

blue_elle · August 2013

Melody330 · August 2013

Major side eye to OP.

peanutmuse · August 2013

benjaminsmommy16 said:

And there are many, many benefits to having a foreskin.

All I am saying is if you are going to look into the benefits of having it done, look into the benefits of having a foreskin. We could debate about this for the next few days, so I'm going to move on.

@benjaminsmommy16 -- You keep saying this, yet you haven't named a single one in your posts here. I don't doubt that there are valid arguments on both sides, I just seriously roll my eyes at anyone who makes a claim like this and doesn't attempt, even in an anecdotal way, to provide more info.

This sounds like exactly what I was talking about with the anti-vax chick in the March 2014 UO. The way I picture this in my head is you crossing your arms and saying "I'm right because I say so and I don't have to prove anything to anyone" and then virtually stomping your feet out of the thread. Grow some balls and prove your point.

ETA: Here's another time you said it:

benjaminsmommy16 said:

I highly suggest everybody looks into all of the benefits of having a foreskin. Because there are about a million. DS is intact and his penis is clean and healthy and he has no problems.

A million, huh?

forevergraceful · August 2013

We will absolutely, without a doubt, not be circumcising our little girl. But seriously, OP, if you weren't trying to start a debate, then what were you wanting? Everyone to just conform to your PSA. That's not very realistic.

peanutmuse · August 2013

Jessiejam said:

The biggest mistake I've made as a parent is having my children baptised. I'm an atheist and I've signed them up to a religion they can never get out of, I despise the Catholic Church and I've added to their numbers because of tradition and family beliefs. I hate it. I don't think I could handle it if I'd altered them in a physical way. That's just my opinion and feelings on the matter, nobody has to agree with me.

@Jessiejam -- Um, ok. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the Catholic Church. Not in the slightest. But it's not like your kids have to subscribe to its belief system. They don't have to go to church. They aren't branded on their foreheads. This is a strange comparison. And WTF does this has to do with the health benefits vs. risks of a circumcision?

blue_elle · August 2013

Jessiejam said:

The biggest mistake I've made as a parent is having my children baptised. I'm an atheist and I've signed them up to a religion they can never get out of, I despise the Catholic Church and I've added to their numbers because of tradition and family beliefs. I hate it. I don't think I could handle it if I'd altered them in a physical way. That's just my opinion and feelings on the matter, nobody has to agree with me.

Jessiejam - Um, what does this have to do with this post? And, seriously, either you or the father had to be a confirmed member of the church to do this, and you had to attend a class, so it's not like you woke up one morning and just went and did it. You passed on a parents culture to your child - the horror!!! By the way, your child will have to make a decision at some point whether or not to become a confirmed member of the church and even after they can leave at any time; you didn't sell them into a cult they're branded with forever, so relax.

peanutmuse · August 2013

Jessiejam said:

@Peanutmuse Yeah point taken, it was off topic. Sorry bout that. I just meant that your beliefs might change but you can't undo circumcision. As you say, my kids can just ignore the system, but a child who's circumcised because they are Jewish, well they are branded forever. My problem with being members of the RCC is that their power is in numbers. If you can't reduce the numbers, you can't reduce the power. They will continue to claim they represent us. But that's OT, apologies again.

I can understand your comparison now. However, your logic is flawed. Circumcision does not brand someone as Jewish. There are plenty of men who are circumcised who are not Jewish.

(ETA: Just to clarify to everyone, understand =/= agree.)

angiek1 · August 2013

Jessiejam said:

The biggest mistake I've made as a parent is having my children baptised. I'm an atheist and I've signed them up to a religion they can never get out of, I despise the Catholic Church and I've added to their numbers because of tradition and family beliefs. I hate it. I don't think I could handle it if I'd altered them in a physical way. That's just my opinion and feelings on the matter, nobody has to agree with me.

Wow- uh this was random rant to add to this thread. If you did your research you'd notice that Catholics traditionally weren't supposed to have their son's circumcised (Bound by Old Covenant’s mandate of circumcision). Now it is up to the parent to make the decision as Catholics aren't bound anymore by the Old Covenant.

You have a right to no longer want to follow religion, but you shouldn't throw your judgement out there for people that do make decisions for religious reasons.

aessary03 · August 2013

Jessiejam said:

@Peanutmuse Yeah point taken, it was off topic. Sorry bout that. I just meant that your beliefs might change but you can't undo circumcision. As you say, my kids can just ignore the system, but a child who's circumcised because they are Jewish, well they are branded forever. My problem with being members of the RCC is that their power is in numbers. If you can't reduce the numbers, you can't reduce the power. They will continue to claim they represent us. But that's OT, apologies again.

My husband was raised Catholic, took communion, was confirmed, etc. and we don't attend the Catholic church. There's no one that knocks on our door to tell us what we're doing does not support the Catholic belief. If you don't like the religion, find something else you do like. Simple as that. The Catholic church has no bearing on what my husband and I will do with this child (which we plan on circumsizing) nor will there be anyone from the church there after the said event to have anything to do with us one way or another. Your views on the Catholic church should have zero influence on your decision. Sorry, this whole thing just rubbed me the wrong way.

peanutmuse · August 2013

@Jessiejam, I actually understand what you're saying in terms of your feelings about the Catholic church. I just think that since you are not arguing on the side of circumcision for religious reasons, it would have been better for you to have just left religion out of it. There are health concerns related to circumcision that have nothing to do with religion. On the other hand, there are no health benefits or risks to being splashed with some holy water. The comparison just doesn't work. Where baptism "makes" someone Catholic, circumcision does not "make" someone Jewish.

aessary03 · August 2013

peanutmuse said:

@Jessiejam, I actually understand what you're saying in terms of your feelings about the Catholic church. I just think that since you are not arguing on the side of circumcision for religious reasons, it would have been better for you to have just left religion out of it. There are health concerns related to circumcision that have nothing to do with religion. On the other hand, there are no health benefits or risks to being splashed with some holy water. The comparison just doesn't work. Where baptism "makes" someone Catholic, circumcision does not "make" someone Jewish.

Agreed.

Deblondie1 · August 2013

I'm glad you're comfortable in your decision regarding your son. IF Fetus is a boy, he will be circumcised. We have our reasons and they are not up to discussion. No one discusses DD's vagina so why would my son's penis be up for discussion?

Deblondie1 · August 2013

I like posts like these because I get to be a "Love It" whore lol

alinafed · August 2013

Background: I'm Catholic and if it's a boy he won't be circumcised (DH's decision, DH isn't and we have always heard sex feels better for them if they aren't). In Canada this is not as common though obviously still done a lot... but the majority of guys I've known aren't.

I really don't feel strongly about this issue, more just, as others have said, why the OP would post something in this way. Something tells me if in the title of your post you write "not trying to start a debate" that you realize you are posting something in a controversial way. I wouldn't ever try to convince anyone not to circumcise their boy, to each his own.

Also I do take offence to the comments about the Catholic Church... you've apologized for being off topic but it's not about whether it's on topic.There is a difference between saying "I take some issues with the way this institution is run" and I DESPISE it. I would never say I despise the Jewish or Muslim institutions...to me that kind of wording borders on something really ugly, whether you are discussing the religion or just the church and the way it's run.

Winnieella · August 2013

Um wow. I feel like this was started to make a debate. If this LO is a boy he will be circumcised. To the poster who went on about the Catholic church...look into the laws more. No one is forcing you to stay catholic. You get baptized but then have a few years before you Confirm that you want to be Catholic. You can get baptized in the Luthern church and then be confirmed as a catholic. You are not rebaptized to he baptized as a Catholic.

As a Catholic myself I found your post to be offensive and misleading. Plus I don't go knocking on peoples doors saying you were baptized in the catholic church you must come to church.

Eta:mobile bumping

aessary03 · August 2013

MrsJWoodJr said:

Um wow. I feel like this was started to make a debate. If this LO is a boy he will be circumcised. To the poster who went on about the Catholic church...look into the laws more. No one is forcing you to stay catholic. You get baptized but then have a few years before you Confirm that you want to be Catholic. You can get baptized in the Luthern church and then be confirmed as a catholic. You are not rebaptized to he baptized as a Catholic. As a Catholic myself I found your post to be offensive and misleading. Plus I don't go knocking on peoples doors saying you were baptized in the catholic church you must come to church. Eta:mobile bumping

Of course OP started this thread to start a debate. It's only obvious since she hasn't shown back up to add any input into this thread.

alinafed · August 2013

@Jessiejam: I'm not trying to beat up on just you cuz of your comments about the church, I just do find these days in general it is really acceptable to put down the Catholic religion or its institutions and I don't think it would pass as easily talking about other religions.

I'm Polish and having a Polish Pope for the first time ever while our country was communist gave hope to us and eventually greatly contributed to the end of communism in Eastern Europe (sorry I'm a historian). To me there is a lot of good in the church, although there are things that need to be fixed too. It is really hard when people put down something you believe in so deeply.

Winnieella · August 2013

alinafed said:

@Jessiejam: I'm not trying to beat up on just you cuz of your comments about the church, I just do find these days in general it is really acceptable to put down the Catholic religion or its institutions and I don't think it would pass as easily talking about other religions.

I'm Polish and having a Polish Pope for the first time ever while our country was communist gave hope to us and eventually greatly contributed to the end of communism in Eastern Europe (sorry I'm a historian). To me there is a lot of good in the church, although there are things that need to be fixed too. It is really hard when people put down something you believe in so deeply.

@alinafed, I feel the same way. There is good in the church. I also feel that is is generally acceptable to have a negative attitude on the Catholic church but not to dis a different church.

peanutmuse · August 2013

MrsJWoodJr said:

As a Catholic myself I found your post to be offensive and misleading. Plus I don't go knocking on peoples doors saying you were baptized in the catholic church you must come to church.

She clarified this point in a very succinct and responsible way. It bothers her that her children will always be considered part of the church because of Vatican law.

Winnieella · August 2013

peanutmuse said:

MrsJWoodJr said:

As a Catholic myself I found your post to be offensive and misleading. Plus I don't go knocking on peoples doors saying you were baptized in the catholic church you must come to church.

She clarified this point in a very succinct and responsible way. It bothers her that her children will always be considered part of the church because of Vatican law.

The issue I have with that, is it's not by Vatican Law.

peanutmuse · August 2013

alinafed said:

I just do find these days in general it is really acceptable to put down the Catholic religion or its institutions and I don't think it would pass as easily talking about other religions.

I was actually just considering this point. If I said I hated Judaism, that would be so taboo. But to say that I hate Catholicism would be considered acceptable in a lot of circumstances. I had never really considered this. I wonder if it has something to do with power and control, in the way that @Jessiejam suggested. If you don't want to be part of another religion, you can often just say "I'm not _______ anymore," and that's all it takes. But you are considered Catholic forever once you are baptized, and bound by its laws. Religion should be a choice, not a mandate. Any religion that makes itself mandatory is probably just more open to scrutiny and opposition. Hence why it is more socially acceptable for people to hate those religious groups, Since people are typically baptized as babies, they were never truly given a choice.

alinafed · August 2013

Jessiejam said:
Ok, this is way off topic, but to clarify, I do despise the Catholic Church, possibly because of the damage it has done in my family and in my country (Ireland). However, I do believe that within the organisation there are wonderful people who do amazing work and I do not seek to denigrate that work. Also, as an atheist I opposed to all organised religions, not just Catholicism. It just happens that I was catholic and that is the religion I am most familiar with. I don't think it's worse than any other religion, I think they are all equally bad.

Thank you for clarifying jessiejam, I can understand better where you are coming from now and I do sincerely appreciate your clarification. To each his own, like you said we don't all have to agree but at least I feel like we can respect where each other is coming from.

peanutmuse · August 2013

MrsJWoodJr said:

peanutmuse said:

MrsJWoodJr said:

As a Catholic myself I found your post to be offensive and misleading. Plus I don't go knocking on peoples doors saying you were baptized in the catholic church you must come to church.

She clarified this point in a very succinct and responsible way. It bothers her that her children will always be considered part of the church because of Vatican law.

The issue I have with that, is it's not by Vatican Law.

@MrsJWoodJr, please clarify what you mean. Because according to the research I did after she posted about it, she's absolutely correct. It is a recent change to Vatican law.

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