- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
January 2014 Moms
wilburbud
member
Healthcare debate time
wilburbud
member
OKay ladies. Where do you all stand on government mandated health insurance? countries like Canada are already there, and now America is moving there.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Healthcare debate time
Well this is a can of worms!!!
I am completely against it, on ALL levels!
If you do enough research on the matter and also do your research on what most Canadians feel about their gvnt mandated insurance most people would (should) feel the same way!
I don't like the way Obama is going about it. I don't like the idea of expanding Medicaid. I don't want our health care system to be like Canada's where it takes months to have a surgery done because everyone has insurance. A lot of Canadians come to America for procedures. I don't like how pharmacies are going to lose even more money.
As a Canadian let me ask a question - how long does it take to schedule a surgery in the States? I'm surprised by everyone's comments about the surgery wait times in Canada.
I think it's hard to compare the two systems because unfortunately the U.S. has a wide disparity, huge divide between rich and poor people. In Canada there is a larger middle class so it's not a case of the rich people paying for the poor people's care as much. It seems like in the US there is way more issues with that and with people who would abuse the system.
It does seem really sad to me though that some people cannot get health insurance... no one should have to die because they cannot afford a heart surgery or something like that, particularly when it's a sick child.
What we have now isn't the answer but I don't think government mandated health insurance is. I really don't know the answer. It makes me really sad that there are so many people who don't have insurance.
DD had her 18 month well baby a few months ago. She had a couple of vaccines and they took some blood to test because she's so light weight. The total bill was 2k. Insurance negotiated it down to about $240 and covered it. However, for someone who doesn't have insurance they end up paying that 2k out of pocket...it's just not right.
Like I said, the way it is now is not good but I don't think Obama's plan is the answer either.
Its not just the surgery wait time, its even the regular dr. apt wait time that is out of control in Canada.
Surgery here usually isn't an issue unless its not covered by insurance. Here in CA, I can usually get seen same day for almost anything, as for surgery I have never had to wait an extended amount of time and I usually got to play a role in deciding the date to work well with my own schedule.
I don't get it - obviously we have a say in scheduling our surgeries lol. I've never not been able to see a doctor the same day. If you don't have a family doctor there are clinics all around for free if you don't feel like going to emerg.
I have heard the opposite from so many in Canada, Tell me what you love about your healthcare system? Maybe I can be educated on this.
Amen! This, rising premiums, abuse of the system, and overworked doctors are going to hurt us...BAD.
Serious question, if you refuse your government healthcare system are you charged a substantial amount of money? Cause that is one of our stipulations are?
Like
Thank you! I'm not a Canadian but I have several friends up there, many of whom have had various procedures and none of whom have had to wait this mythical "6 months" that people like to say down here when defending the completely shoddy (in my opinion) US system. I also have a British friend who recently had to have two big surgeries for her severe ulcerative colitis, and had a wonderful experience and it's changed her life.
I think Americans tend to be less pragmatic and more "every man for himself" than people from other countries.
That being said, our insurance covers only 80% of the costs of giving birth, and I am livid about it. I've been told to blame Obama for it, but I don't know what to believe. There's too much politics injected into something that should not be political. Ugh.
DS #1 Born 01/07/2014, DS #2 Born 12/17/2014
I'm not saying you're wrong, I am sure for example if you live in a small town in Canada getting a specialist would be a different story. I live in a city of a million so maybe that is why it's easier. I can say having seen people with cancer and such sometimes they do need to wait months for a surgery, and from this convo that does sound like something that doesn't happen in the States so much.
However, the thing I love is I will pay $0 to have this baby (on the medical side), from pregnancy to birth. I don't ever have to say "Is it worth X money to see the doctor or get this medicine, have this surgery, call an ambulance?" because it's free. Obviously I think both systems must be misrepresented to each other - I don't want to base all my opinions of the American system on Sicko or anything like that, it seems like you guys are happy and I understand you have lots of issues that we don't have (i.e. lots of people who scam the system who maybe you don't want to pay to support health-wise)
I'm not trying to say ours would be great for America. I am just saying as a Canadian I have never once met anyone here who said they would rather pay and have the American system.
We probably just have different views as countries though. For example most people I know think Canada is crazy for only having 1 year paid mat leave when in Europe you get 3 in some countries. But I don't think in the States you even get a year. So to each his own
I definitely think it would be hard to say what the best course of action is for the States and I have no opinion on Obama's plan as an outsider.
Lol that's a great point actually you are right. I actually have no idea how much taxes Americans pay and I will probably be really jealous when I hear - how much is your income tax rate? I think ours is about 22% because I make a fair amount. If I made under 40K it would be 15%
Obama's plan just wont work.....its much different from the sounds of it!
Can I say WTF, you get 1 yr of paid mat leave????? Ok for that I am completely jealous!!! I can get up to 8weeks of help from the state, but its at like 40% of my pay. However my husbands company offers a much better deal for him, he will get paid bonding time with the baby, but I am not sure how long it is!
This is a tough question to answer. Our tax system is screwed up too, lol. But for example, I'm in the 25% tax rate, but my effective tax (the tax I actually paid after deductions and credits) was just under 11% last year. I would say most Americans grossly overestimate the % we pay in taxes because our system is extremely complicated and difficult to understand. Most low income families end up paying very, very little in taxes. I won't say whether I agree or disagree with that, but that's the fact.
Ok cool that is really interesting. I have always heard stuff about Ronald Reagan's policies and how because we are more on the left side of the political spectrum we paid lots more taxes so I did always wonder. I won't lie, the 22% is tough and it does sound like in that area you guys have it better
I just feel bad for those who then get sick and have to pay lots out of pocket, but if you are healthy and don't have to go to the doctor it seems like a great advantage to have the lower taxes.
::mobile thumbs up::
We do also have state income taxes too, which complicates things even more! I guess my point is that it isn't completely free in any country, and there are a lot of factors that go into whether it works or not. I will just say this...I feel very grateful to live in a country - any country - in which I have access to doctors and testing and prenatal care and all the things we rely so heavily on. Things could always be worse!
I'm not going to increase already huge quote trees, so I'll just insert my opinion here. As a Canadian, I will say that sometimes wait times can be long yes. But those wait times are usually for elective/non life threatening surgeries. Anything that is super important (cancer, ulcer, heart problems, those types of things) are done asap. And even at the long end, most often wait times are only maybe a month at most.
To use a for example: My husband had elective knee surgery last year. His MRI was mid April and because of his work schedule he wasn't able to see the doctor again until mid May. The doctor wanted to book his surgery for a week after that, but again work schedules dictated that to be a no. He ended up having his surgery on Oct 31st because that's when he was finally able to figure everything out with work. So yes, it was a 5 month wait, but not because the doctor wasn't able to do it. It was a 5 month wait because we waited that long to figure everything out with his work schedule (and it was all us. Work even wanted him to get it earlier). So sometimes when you hear those wait times, it's because people like us are just not as proactive as needed. And yes, the hospital called us EVERY MONTH to see if we wanted to book the surgery then.
Like I said though, anything of life or death is dealt with immediately. And this is coming from a small town 5+ hours away from most specialists. So being in a small town doesn't make it any less accessible (except for travel).
I love our system. I don't have to worry about any sort of health care costs. And to the poster that asked about opting out of government health care, well you can't. It isn't even an option. There is no health care aside from government care. You cannot get into any system without your government health care number.
Daughter #1 - February 12, 2010
natural m/c March 11, 2011 at 8 1/2 weeks
Daughter #2 - January 11, 2012
Ectopic pregnancy discovered November 6, 2012 at 6 weeks
Daughter #3 - January 19, 2014
Started our exploration into the world of international adoption June 2012. We have no idea what this is going to look like but we are excited to find out!
Emma Kate - born 10.16.03 @ 29 weeks, weighed 1lb 13oz and 13.5" long.
TTC #3
I'm currently giggling to myself thinking of the 30 Rock episode where Jack's baby is born in Canada and as Republican he is livid that they won't charge him for the birth. Ha!
https://www.youtube.com/embed/aFC28CBTKbc
DS #1 Born 01/07/2014, DS #2 Born 12/17/2014
Two Big Thumbs up!
I agree with all of this.
I will add that during my third year of law school we had to read and summarize a 2010 version of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act ("Obamacare") as a part of a class project. It took 40 law students an entire semester to produce conflicting summaries of the law. It's an enormously complicated law because it's an attempt to govern an enormously complicated and largely under-regulated industry. I'm skeptical of anyone who claims to understand the law or its implications.
Ugh. I agree with with many others say--but I don't necessarily agree that a government mandated health care program is wrong. To me, the health care industry is just completely messed up. THAT is at the root of the problem. Honestly, I don't like Obamas plan not because I am against a national health care system, but because I don't think it goes far enough to get the root of the problem. Plus, I get so discouraged by how much back door politics and how much is driven straight by money that it's hard for me to even get my head around what the right solution is. It's such a big, complex problem that I just can't even begin to think about the right fix.
Will baby #3 be another girl?
]
Canadian living in the United States jumping onto this bandwagon a little bit late. I also won't start a huge quote line, but I will say the following:
There is just so much misinformation down here about single payor healthcare.
For one, Americans should take a good, hard look at how much they are paying in taxes overall (i.e. not just the federal rate, but state and local, sales taxes, FICA, property) and add that burden to their health insurance premiums. I'm at work so can't find the cite, but it has been shown that in the majority of U.S. states, the Canadian tax burden is lower than the U.S. burden, and that's WITH health care!
For another, I fundamentally believe that no matter how inept the government may be at times, insurance companies are not a better alternative. I would rather a government body with a mission related to the public good be responsible for the administration of health care, instead of a for profit company. Insurance companies ultimately serve their shareholders, not their patients. For the government, the patients and the "owners" are the same: the population. Incentives make much more sense in that context.
Whewf, sorry. I'll stop. I actually think Obamacare is a massive fail, because it didn't go far enough and gave too much power to the insurance companies, but I will step down from the soap box now. Stepping down...
__________________________________________________________
DS1 born 08.02.11
DS2 born 12.05.13
As another Canadian living in a small, rural area, I agree 100% with all of this.
for your first pro for the US, that all depends on your insurance, I do have to see a gp first.
You do realize that there are many, many people who have employers who don't offer health insurance, correct? And many of these people also get paid a pittance, so they literally cannot afford an individual healthcare plan. I also "work my butt off" and yet my company offers shiitty insurance. And I can't go on DH's plan because my company does offer insurance, even though it sucks. That's not "freedom", it's ridiculous.
I think Obama's plan is a step in the right direction, but I'm all for single-payer. The amount of money we spend on healthcare in this country is outrageous, and I think having the government as the only solution would force prices down. I 100% believe that healthcare should be a right, not a privilege for those who are better off financially.
Here's experiences an American living in Canada:
My experience with a single payer health care system has been mostly all positive. You are eligible to start receiving coverage after living in the province for three months. Monthly premiums for my government coverage are affordable and nearly the same as what I payed for my employer group program in the US - about $60/month. I love knowing that I can go to the walk-in clinic and have my issue taken care of (getting stitches in my sliced finger, care after I threw out my back, getting a pregnancy test) and not pay a penny. No co-pays!
This debate is really striking a chord with me right now because My DH and I are in the middle of the process of immigrating to the US to live closer to my family. Before we got pregnant, we were hoping to move in the fall, assuming he got permission. But now that I'm pregnant, I am terrified of moving. I want to be close to my family while prepping for the baby but financially it might not be possible because of the health insurance issue. By being pregnant, I have a pre-existing condition so purchasing any sort of reasonably affordable health insurance is out the window. The idea of facing several thousands of dollars of hospital bills for a delivery is overwhelming. I wish that the US system was like Canada's because it is a lot more straight forward and would make the decisions my DH and I have to make easier.
Pregnancy is not considered a pre-existing condition. What you may need to do is have the hubby find a job in the states first and make sure he eligible for health benefits and then follow him out here.
Pregnancy is not considered a pre-existing condition. What you may need to do is have the hubby find a job in the states first and make sure he eligible for health benefits and then follow him out here.
IMO, pregnancy is not a right either. If you, collective you not you specifically, can't afford to have a baby than you shouldn't be having one. If I didn't have insurance that would cover the costs of my pregnancy I sure as heck wouldn't be pregnant right now.
Now I realize that pregnancy is only one in countless medical issues but a lot of people seem to be acting like it's their right to not have to pay for prenatal care or childbirth.
Why can't you get on your H's plan? In my state, employees can waive their benefits if their spouse covers them.
Full disclosure, I work in health care/public health policy for the government so I have to think about this all day...
I am for it. When you look at the insurance market, you quickly get to a place where universal coverage is the simplest way to make it work. (If you are looking conservative plans that are reasonable I would suggest you look into Jim Capretta's work. My concern is that I do not think his proposals would do enough to protect people with preexisting conditions...) That being said, the ACA does not go far enough to fix a lot of the underlying issues in the private markets/State regulation of plans, Medicare, and Medicaid.