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August 2012 Moms
lady_tytah
member
child expectations
lady_tytah
member
Disclaimer: This will be a controversial post.
Comments are encouraged but I'm just talking.
The way I was raised was when in public situations [stores, malls and restaurants] the child didn't run, was seen not heard and generally the picturesque child. When going out the house it was started expectations of how to behave. Before leaving the car the expectations where again stated. There was no bribing with treats or extra privileges.
There was no he/she is just a kid.
Now it seems as of expectations of child behavior has gone down. Kids aren't held to anything without it being blamed on race, social standings, and psychology, aside from true medical problems.
Yes, there were those kids that toed the line or blatantly crossed it. Also not saying there are moments when it will happen. My issue is the notion that kids behavioral expectations have went down hill to just hearing their parents voice versus listening to parents direction.
Comments are encouraged but I'm just talking.
The way I was raised was when in public situations [stores, malls and restaurants] the child didn't run, was seen not heard and generally the picturesque child. When going out the house it was started expectations of how to behave. Before leaving the car the expectations where again stated. There was no bribing with treats or extra privileges.
There was no he/she is just a kid.
Now it seems as of expectations of child behavior has gone down. Kids aren't held to anything without it being blamed on race, social standings, and psychology, aside from true medical problems.
Yes, there were those kids that toed the line or blatantly crossed it. Also not saying there are moments when it will happen. My issue is the notion that kids behavioral expectations have went down hill to just hearing their parents voice versus listening to parents direction.
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Re: child expectations
1999- Dx Prolactinoma
8-25-2012 - Lucas born via C-section at 38 Weeks 2 days
IMO Parents don't set expectations or rules for children, so there obviously are issues. I worked retail for years. It drove me batty when kids would run around terrorizing my store, and the parent was quietly saying "come over here" not doing ANYTHING to redirect the child's behavior. Sorry but my parents would have straightened most of those occurrences out before they became problems.
I was NOT paid to babysit. I was paid a little over minimum wage to sell shoes. End.of.story. I HATED when parents took 0 time to parent their child. If you can't raise them to respect other people and property, maybe you shouldn't have had them in the first place.
I saw far too many things where the parents could have taken care of the issue when it was small but waited for a huge problem and then SCREAMED at said child. Just start off by actually parenting. I would rather leave the store without anything than let my kid run rampant and be a terror.
The fact that your parents began with explaining their expectations prior to every transition is, most likely, what led to successful outings. I guarantee they did offer tangible rewards for good behavior at points in your life - out to get ice cream, a candy bar, a trip to the park, etc. These things just weren't tied to an if/then statement (i.e., IF you're good at Olive Garden, THEN we'll buy you a trampoline.) Most likely, they also gave you praise and told you they were proud of how you behaved in public. Praise IS a reward.
I think the thought that 'children should be seen and not heard' is belittling to the kids. It's like they don't matter. By doing this, you're missing out on opportunities for them to explore their world through questioning,commenting, and socializing.
I want to point out that it's OK to reward kids. I wonder if people would go to work if they weren't 'rewarded' with a paycheck...
I think kids today aren't held accountable for their actions, ao they do what they want to do, because they know no one will do anything about it. There will be kids that still do bad things, but it all boils down to consultancy. If a parent tells a child that they will be punished they need to do it, or that child will never learn.
My parents didn't say her thanks for doing what we said. We went out, I got home and went about our day. If I got praise it was for volunteering to do something they didn't ask.
I think that goes in hand with not making realistic consequences. Since parents threaten to leave the store but will stay for the next hr versus taking a few mins to do a private one on one or time out in the corner of the store.
Personally I don't agree with "seen and not heard", but I do believe that I shouldn't see a 7 year old running through a store screaming and pulling things off of shelves with no parent around because they are too busy looking at something.
I agree with scout that these expectations should fit age, but I think expectations should be set age appropriately and followed. I am not saying kids shouldn't be able to be kids, but there are limitations of what I give an eyeroll to with a parent in a store.
I agree I don't go out with A when it is his naptime, and I always have a snack because they tend to calm him down if he starts getting worked up. We also leave if it seems like he is getting too worked up.
However, I feel that at 9 months old a kid isn't going to understand my expectations either, so my only expectation is that we try to have a successful trip and if I see that isn't happening we leave. No big.
Did we have the same parents? Lol. I think this is precisely why so few people on this board understand me and think I am some child abusing monster when I'm actuality I'm far too lenient and get told so by dad dad and husband all the time.
Being tired and sleepy ate one thing. I have a friends whose child gets sleepy and starts being a terror. She'll start fighting, throwing things and [copying her mothers mouth] cursing. Those aren't acceptable behaviors for being tired. Those actions require discipline.
When I day seen and not heard unless ridiculously tired or hungry bad behaving isn't necessary. What does her mother do nothing till the kid is about to do one the said to my kid and I correct her kid.
I didn't realize I was on a high horse. I know my kids aren't perfect either. Nor an I expected perfect behavior out of 9m old.
Like I said, I'm talking. You ladies are allot more diverse than most of my fb so I'm talking.
Yes, and look at what a perfect, wonderful person you turned out to be. Closed minded, bigoted, and fond of corporeal punishment for small children. Home run!
Thank you.
For the record, lady t, I wasn't really focusing that on YOU specifically, just the general tone people were using. We disagree on this issue, but in general I do like you.
We may have been raised similarly but we're nothing alike. I'm not a bible thumping bigot.
I have a 5 almost 6yr old that I used this parenting style on while being a single parent. This us not my first rodeo.
If you receive no recognition for good work in your job, thereby meaning ALL you hear is what you do wrong, do you stay? My guess is you do not. Yet, you propose we do that to children - tell them what they do wrong, but not what they do right. You bring more attention for the negative than the positive. They will then be more likely to act out to get your attention in the future since you're teaching them that is the only time they get acknowledged.
FTR, were you a perfect angel in childhood/teen/college years?
You're right. I don't call people I don't even know names.
How does not r for good behavior but expecting it highlight negative. If we're out and Nene gets out of my eye sight I bring her to me. Look eye to eye and tell her stay where I can see you. The rest of the trip she does well.I'm not going to praise her for stating in my sight it was expected. How is that highlighting the negative. If at school and gets a yellow [losses 5 mins of recess] I don't say good job for only missing 5 mins I say you we need to work on your listening ears.
Yeah. OP, given your other posts, the unsaid is that there was the threat of being punished at home. It still happens today. A lady at the playground openly talked to me about her kids knew that if they weren't obedient they'd get punished at home and they knew what it meant. She then recommended babywise to me. No thanks.
Kids are kids. We can be consistent with our expectations and follow-through, but they do have free will. And, good public behavior isn't intuitive to a 2yr old. You have to cross the line to know where it is.
I have high expectations of my kids. But they are kids and are not perfect. Twice in the past week I was complimented on how well behaved my kids were. Once was by a restaurant manager and once from a cashier at Younkers. I was incredibly proud of them and told them so. When kids are praised they generally strive to repeat whatever behavior that earned that praise. And for the record, we also have had days when we had to leave a store and times where Gunnar would try to escape by crawling under dressing room doors. You live and you learn. But you will be much happier if you set high but realistic expectations.
And for crying out loud, you train your dog with verbal praise and rewards, your kids deserve it just as much.
I agree that kids should be kids but I also think they need to behave themselves. I do not think seen and not heard is a healthy way to teach you kids.
Back last yr, when Nene was adjusting to Amir, real ask day school and living in a house with a dad figure; she had moments were she called herself bad and beak down crying. I was completely baffled. I've never called her bad in my life and don't believe kids are. I told her sometimes you don't make the right choices but that doesn't make you bad. I believe when you give a child expectations they cab and will strive to meet them. I feel like if you teach and show them how the right choices will be easier to do.
This is all I was going to add to this conversation, but you beat me to it. Get out of my head!
ETA: DH's grandma talked about using leashes with her kids. She's 81. Nothing new under the sun, folks.
This is an interesting topic, and it's nice to see different perspectives on this. I really have nothing to add, because to be honest, we're on our first kid and I was never around a lot of kids growing up. So we just kind of wing it as we go based on what feels right and the here and there articles that we read.
Right now, we just work on "no" and directing her elsewhere (she grabs anything she can from the cart). We have taken her to the restaurant, but we avoid nice sit down places that can take a while. Mostly we've just been to mom and pop places that are quick, and she does well in those settings. Sometimes she'll get really excited and start to yell, and we do the "shhh" and try to show her we have to be quiet inside. Now she's probably laughing at us inside thinking "silly parents", but we try.
I definitely think our plans will change as she gets older and dependent on her behavior. If it's not working, we'll need to evaluate our expectations as well as methods to see what's not working.
I also love you! Thank you for saying what my brain could not before coffee and the Dutch Baby Pancake currently baking in my oven.
I also love you.
Wtf is going on in this thread?
Look, I am a FTM and have no idea what kind of personality my daughter will have at 2, 4, 7, or 20. I think it's ok to have some expectations, but, to me, part of being a good parent is learning to bend those expectations to conform and fit your kid. I absolutely disagree with not praising positive behavior. You will point out negative behavior, correct it, but not praise the corrected behavior to promote positive reinforcement? That makes no sense at all. As Scout and other PPs have said, that's pretty much setting them up to fail from the start.
I agree with this. But, I think what ladytytah was trying to say is that you must teach your child how to behave. It is important to not reward your child for every good thing they do because then the motivation becomes extrinsic. As a teacher, I see many parents that don't follow through with bad behavior at home and place the blame on the school. There have to be consequences. Children need to know the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behaviors.
When a child does good on their report care, they do good at a soccer game, they cleaned up without being asked etc, it should be dollars with praise. They don't need a cash reward, but telling them they've done a good job makes them feel good.
As a kid, my parents only focused on the negative. I knew they expected me to get good grades, but i wish I'd been praised more. I now over apologize all the time. I didn't notice until I started working at my current job.
A lot of people I know were brought up with this no praise approach, and they are nothing to brag about. My friends who were praised, AND had higher expectations, are very confident smart people.
I've always had high but realistic expectations of her and will do the same for DS. Praise, hugs and high fives go a long way!
All of the bolded.
People, praise is considered a NATURAL reinforcer because it comes NATURAL to (most) people. It's not extrinsic. It's not bribery. It's NATURAL!
I was not praised for a job well done. I was berated for every B (a whopping 2). I'm not close to my parents. I'm close to my mom's ex-husband because, despite only being in my life for 2 years, he to this DAY still tells me good job for things. My mom didn't come to my masters graduation because, almost a direct quote, "I knew you'd pass so it's not like it's a big deal." She then asked why I had a 3.98 instead of a 4.0. That's all I got. When I got into a PhD program, fully paid for PLUS a very nice living stipend, still no good job - I'm proud of you. I love my mom because I have to. That's it.
Even though I was bright enough to do what I've done, praise was still important to me. Her lack of praise and support is part of what's driven me away from her.
When Nene got into TAG I praised her. When she got 2 awards for top grades/behavior throughout the year and for Hardworker, I praised her. Those are praise worthy events. I'm not saying I dont praise. Im saying I dont for expected behavior such as listening to directions in the store.
This is my thought exactly. I will praise my son and encourage him. When he messes up I will be there to correct and comfort him. I grew up with expectations and little praise. I rarely met these expectations and put a lot of pressure on myself. When I failed my self esteem was destroyed. Expectations, discipline, praise, and grace all are important in my opinion.
I was raised the same way and I set the same expectations for Chloe. I know shes young now and doesn't really know there are expectations but I make sure that I take care of things even if it puts me at an inconvienience.
We went out to dinner with my in laws and Chloe was fussy, she started crying and I couldn't calm her down so I got up and went outside with her and had them pack my dinner to go. I give her 30 seconds at MOST to calm down, less if I know she won't... and then I take her outside. I have had to leave shopping carts at customer service and take her out of a store before but I do think she is learning because she rarely has fits in a store any more.