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August 2012 Moms
brandyleighxx
member
Transgender 6 year old
brandyleighxx
member
How do you feel about this?
In the article is says that at age 4 the child asked the parents when he could go to the dr. to be 'fixed' and become a girl. Obviously this child saw or heard about this somewhere. It also said he leaned more towards girl clothing by 18 months.. while that may be true, you ultimately dress your child - you can choose whether he wears a dress or not.
I just feel like this family is setting this kid up for an incredibly tough childhood. Kids can be mean when you're normal, let alone when you're "different".
I've thought about whether or not I'd be ok with DS coming to me one day and telling me he's gay. I like to think I will be ok with it but I'm also traditional in that a boy is a boy and a girl is a girl and girls wear pink dresses and boys don't.
What does Aug 12 think?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Transgender 6 year old
Don't get me wrong I think if a kid wants to wear "boy" clothes instead of "girl" clothes let them wear what they want, after all pink or blue a shirt is a shirt. But I think using a different bathroom is pretty extreme.
An 18 month or a 4 year old is going to dress in whatever is available to them in their closet. They can't get in the car and go shop for themselves.
I think it's a decision to be made when you're mature enough to understand the decision and know the lifestyle you are going to have to accept [because I know a lot of people are twats about transgender individuals, especially kids, and the struggles alone should be something you're prepared for...not shoved into when you're 4].
SCANDAL!
Definitely. A boy should not be allowed in a girls bathroom. And if I had a daughter, I wouldn't want her peeing next to a male. What about in 10 years when he/she is interested in sex?
I agree, I don't think a 6 year old would even know its possible to do this without a little pushing from parents.
I am going to be the minority here, and I know it. There are certain things I agree with pp's about. i.e. A 6 year old asking about a doctor "fixing" him sounds a little fishy to me. That being said, I think from a VERY young age children know what they like and gravitate toward. This little boy was in a set of triplets with what looks like from the picture 2 sisters. Therefore, clothes were in the house that fit him that he liked better than "boy" clothes.
I think it would be hard to tell my kid every day when asked, no you can't wear clothes like that (even though you like them better and would feel more comfortable in them). Children want to express their likes and their dislikes from the start. I think asking them to stifle that from the start is just begging for kids that are more confused because they feel like they shouldn't like the things that they do.
The bathroom thing I think the school made the wrong call with, and with their state laws I think they could very well lose. But seriously, The kids classmates all looked at her as a girl. I think she would have received much more harassment with her pretty hair and dresses going into a boys bathroom. I am sorry I have always looked at this as a little stupid. There are stalls for a reason. Each girl gets her own bathroom stall. Every bathroom I have ever gone in has had this situation. Girls don't just strip down in the public area and then go into a stall. There is privacy for a reason. Saying you would be worried with your little girl going in the same bathroom as a boy because eventually they will have sexual urges just has never made sense to me, simply because there are stalls. You don't have dedicated girls bathrooms and boys bathrooms in your house do you? No. Because you have doors. I feel the same rule applies and I think the reason boy/girl bathrooms started is because boys bathrooms have urinals and they aren't as private and didn't want girls to have to see the opposite sexes body in a public restroom.
I think it is good that this little girl (I will continue to refer to her as such) has some people that are willing to stand up for her. I mean, hell, I know quite a few of the lgbt community that live their lives for a very long time trying to hide what they are because society doesn't agree with it. Gender is a identity. Sex is a biological trait.
But at 6, not getting an ice cream cone off of the ice cream truck torments you.
I don't think at that age that you even know what torment means, nor can anything consume you that much. My sister is 6 and she stays focused on something for a day before she moves onto something else, whether it be serious or stupid.
SCANDAL!
i really wish i had time to get into this debate because it is something i feel VERY strongly about. i glanced through a few PPs and to say that this is similar to a kid asking to be a mermaid or wanting ice cream or other such normal kid things demonstrates how uneducated you are on the subject. no offense meant. you just are.
this is a well documented "disorder" and most people who end up transitioning in adulthood will say from their earliest memories, they KNEW they were transgendered. this isn't a childhood whimsy. this little girl is a girl. sometimes the body makes mistakes.
i have a friend who just transitioned a few years ago. again, she knew from her earliest memory. she went through decades of self hate, one failed marriage and then having to explain to her two young children what was going on. i wish she had been unafraid enough and supported enough to have saved her all that pain.
The bathrooms may have stalls now, but what about high school when you are showering together all in a big room with no curtains? I am not trying to be argumentative, just asking.
i guess my questions is what are you afraid of in this scenario?
the bio girls seeing this girls penis?: if it is still there, i can promise you anyone with gender dysmorphia is not going around flaunting their penis. i can promise that she would likely be ashamed of it and would change very privately. only if bio girls were attempting to ridicule her would the see it.
that this girl will see the other bio girls genitals and/or be a threat: i would further promise you that this kid isn't plotting this whole thing at this young age just to see some snatch....or as some elaborate plan to attack a girl.
I just meant that at such a young age, I don't think you even have discovered your identity. You don't "know" who you really are or understand what it is to know. IMO.
Either way, I mean, the parents of this little girl are going to do what they want to do and that's fine by me. It's not my child, so it's not my decision. I do think it's wrong for her to be forced to use a male bathroom, if she's going to dress and act like a female.
SCANDAL!
Those are good points, never thought of it that way. But look, if my kid liked violent video games, firecrackers, or guns - I'm not allowing it, even if he asks for it everyday. Yes, clothes are different than guns, but my point is that we have a say so in how they live their lives at age 6.
I am definitely uneducated on this topic, but I still have an opinion, ya know? And that opinion might change if I were to research it more. It's hard to understand things so different than what I and most other people consider normal. I just wonder if they tried at all to discourage him from dressing like a girl? I would try that approach first with counseling first because I know that kid is going to have such a tough road ahead of him.
There's a huge difference between identity and interest. From a psychologist standpoint, one of the challenges of early childhood, ages 2 to 7, is gender identity. Once that identity is identified, there is very little that can be done to change it. You can make your child feel shame and a need for secrecy if that's how you want to parent. All you're ensuring is a delay in the inevitable and a kid who will never come home for holidays.
To the highlighted quote, you can have your opinion and be as traditional as you want, but know that sexuality and gender identification are GRAY areas, not black and white, blue is boy and pink is girl. Certainly there are people that slide heavy on one side of the scale than the other, but there are thousands and thousands of people all over the world that do not fit into these boxes.
I certainly believe that a child can know that he or she isn't fitting into the body they were born with as soon as age 4. What's done about it at that age is up for debate, obviously. I can't say I'd know what I'd do since I'm not in that situation, and I'm not about to judge others.
I get pretty passionate about this topic.
Yes, I wouldn't want my 6 year old daughter seeing a penis. I have a 4 year old step daughter (and 6 yr old step son), she's seen her brother's genitals while changing clothes and bath time but we've recently stopped bathing them together and they change in their own rooms now, and close the door when they use the bathroom. They're at ages that they need to learn those things are done in private. I don't want them to be ashamed of their body but I guess we are conservative in that those things are private, especially at that age.
Come back and talk about your opinions when it is your kid who is having struggles with his or her sexuality.
You really have no idea how you will handle any of it until it happens to your child.
I though I'd react one way but, reacted the other way and I STILL don't know what the fck I'm doing.
That is all.
I completely agree.
Then I would delay it. If it didn't appear to be just a phase or caused a distraction in school, I would discourage the behavior and seek counseling. I'm sorry but I wouldn't let my son wear a dress to school. If it turned out he were transgendered, I feel like I would ultimately accept him no matter what and love him regardless, but I'm not encouraging the behavior.
It helps if you consider if you were always made to use the boys bathroom at school, and you knew that was wrong and it made you ashamed. You just wanted to belong, and you didn't and no one would listen. Put yourself in that position, and it might help you understand.
I'm going to have to agree with brandy. Maybe it's the conservative way I was raised but I wouldn't want my 14 year old daughter seeing a penis in the shower at school.
The question of which bathroom to use seems to be the basis of the article. It's a tough one for me. On one hand, I think it's a great time to teach our children that being different is OK! They are at such a forgiving age right now. On the other hand, they are very young. Would there be an "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" moment? Who knows... What if, what if, what if.
I will say... It bothers me that they let Coy use the girls bathroom and then decided she needed to use the boys bathroom. That is not right. Once a decision was made in the matter that should have been it.
She wouldn't be your daughter, she'd be your son.
A young kid knowing they're transgendered is not comparable to kids wanting to play violent video games or wanting to grow up to be a princess.
If my kid wants to eat French fries for every meal or wants to act like a bully in school, yes I'm going to have a say in it. If they come to me and say "mommy why do I have a boy part when I'm a girl?" you bet your as I'm taking them seriously and letting them dress and act how they want to act. Would I let them get surgery that young? No. But I'm not going to stifle who they are.
I can't imagine feeling how I feel and looking in the mirror everyday and seeing a boy's face. It's a very real, very sad thing that should be taken seriously at any age.
I am a little late to respond to this, and some other posters have posted valid questions as well. TBH, in high school we didn't have showers. Our high school avoided that altogether. Actually, all three of the high schools I attended in different states had that stance, and had shutoff the water valves to their shower rooms. The only thing there was was a pull shower that you could rinse off with if you had been in the pool, but that was in the public area and you remained in your swimming suit. The other thing is I don't remember ever getting stark naked in changing. We changed in a locker area, but my underwear and bra remained on at all times. No one was looking at anyone. I think that a transgendered child has the same rights you or I have, to change in freaking peace. I think her penis is something that shouldn't change that people think of her as a she. Once I got to college all showers had pull curtains. So that takes care of showers through ages.
Like hooslisa said, I don't see where her penis makes a whole difference. It is part of her anatomy, just like your vagina is a part of yours. By the time these kids are in high school I truly hope that they have been taught that anatomy doesn't rule gender identity. I understand that some people don't agree with that part, but I definitely see it as such.
That being said if it were my kid I have no idea what I would do.
Here is my stance. While I would feel awkward at first if DS were to come to me and say that he wants to be a girl and I legitimately knew that he did, I would support him as early as humanly possible. Yes, I would worry about how other kids and parents treated him, but if the whole ordeal resulted in him feeling comfortable about himself or herself and saved him years of stress and identity issues, IMO it would be worth it.
I have many LGBT friends that I met in college. While for some this seems like a phase, I truly believe that they felt these ways about their sexuality for a long time. One of my longest friends is gay. Unfortunately, we teased him in grade school about it, and because we were at a catholic school he denied it until we made it into high school. After he came out, I asked him how long he knew and he said he knew when he was 3 and he was walking through a department store and liked the male underwear models more than the female models. You can argue that is too young to know what you like and dislike but I distinctly remember the boys I had crushes on when I was that age. I believe in the science behind LGBT. Sure, some of it could be outside influence or how you are raised but not for everyone.
well. i can't say i thought this would happen, but......
"as always, scout, well said."
haha.
Honestly scout, you put this more elegantly than I could ever hope to.
100% agree. I am just left feeling bad when I think of all of the children that have parents that try to stifle them. They wouldn't have to ever face "coming out" if they weren't ever "put in" in the first place so to speak.
I just have to agree with the PP that mentioned no one showers in middle or high school gym classes anymore. I went to high school more than 15 years ago and no one showered. If parents are worried about their child seeing the opposite genders "private parts" they should be MUCH more worried about the internet than school gym class and bathrooms.
Second year, he was still mostly presenting as a boy but had changed his name to something less boyish, started hanging almost exclusively with the girls.
Third year, the parents said this is a girl, please treat her as such. She was 11 then. She still wore boyish clothes but went by the androgynous name and used the girls bathroom. She traveled with the packs of girls and they were totally fine with it because they had known this kid for years. The new kids at camp accepted that she was a girl without teasing because everybody else accepted it as fact. Frankly the only people who struggled with it were the teachers and the other parents. The teachers were supportive but sometimes confused, the parents ran the gamut from clueless and kind to hostile.
I loved this camp for that example if acceptance and a million others. If we teach our kids that its ok for a boy to actually be a girl and that it doesn't matter, then the kid in this story doesn't face a lifetime of struggle. They face a lifetime of getting to be who they are just like the rest of us.
..Applauds..
If my son comes to me and says, "I feel like I'm a girl", I'm not putting him in a dress, giving him a hello kitty lunchbox, and sending him to school. I would first, TBH, brush it off as curiosity. If he put on his sister's dress and pranced around the house, I'd find it amusing and probably take pictures. If the issue persisted, I would explain to him to the best of my knowledge (and probably with the help of books) the difference between boys and girls - anatomy, features, even hair and the sound of their voice. If it didn't appear to be a curious phase, I'd seek counselling. In the mean time, I'm still not sending him to school in girl's clothing. For one, it's a disruption to the classroom. I wasn't allowed to wear spaghetti strap tank tops in school because it was a distraction and I think most every school has a policy that students can't wear clothes that cause a disruption - such as booty shorts, shirts with racial slurs, and boys in girls clothing. I would ultimately love my son no matter what. Gay, transgender, interracial relationship, different religion, whatever. And as someone else mentioned, we are moving towards a society where transgendered individuals are more accepted and I'm truly ok with that but we're not there yet. So, no, I don't want my son getting bullied and picked on because of something that may just be a phase without more encouragment from his parents and siblings.
That's a catch 22. I don't know if this is all states but many require you to live as the sex you want to be before being allowed to undergo surgery, and this includes public bathrooms.
There is also a difference between sexual and gender identity. You can have the sexual identity of the opposite sex. These are the people who alter their bodies to become the sex they believe they are. Trans gender people identify with the opposite gender but are happy to do so with the parts they're born with. Anyone interested in educating themselves, Kate Bornstein's books are interesting and informative.
P.S. That last paragraph wasn't directed at you, Salty!
But do you see where it could do damage if it isn't a "phase"? Like true irreparable needing counseling for years damage? The people in your son's life who he should be able to count on for no passed judgement and just pure love (being you) trying to change him into something that he isn't? Into something that makes him truly uncomfortable in his skin? You say you would accept him if this were the case, but TRUE acceptance isn't trying to discourage him and accept him only when you can't change him into what you see as "normal". True acceptance is accepting who someone is right from the beginning.
It is just hard when it isn't the kids that aren't being accepting, it is the adults in the situation.
eta: the last sentence was actually going back to the original news story, not meant as a stab.
i HIGHLY doubt that their little boy came to them one day and said "hey, i want to be a girl."
and the parents said, "sweet. let's go shopping for some skirts and i'll petition the school."
OF COURSE there are steps that come before this. but all the steps should be based on acceptance, understanding and love....not what you fear the kids at school might say.