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Attachment Parenting
happywife2b
member
Anyone choose against Circumcision?
happywife2b
member
Here is my opinion, in a nutshell:
Circumcision is a cruel and unnecessary mutilation that is bordering on abusive to infants/small children. If my son grows up and decides that he wants to surgically remove a part of his body, so be it. If it becomes a medical necessity in the meantime, also a good reason. But I refuse to fold to societal urging that this is normal and therefore expected.
You don't have to agree with me, but if you have gone this route, then advice would be appreciated. My SO seems to think that circumcision is a necessary thing, and is having some trouble grasping my position against it. I don't want to come across as too aggressive when talking with him, because he is more open to my ideas when I can frame then conversationally and unemotionally. We compromise on most things. Any advice is appreciated.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Anyone choose against Circumcision?
We decided against circumcision for the same reasons. My H as convinced it was a good idea to get him circumcised and that he would be "abnormal" without a circ until I started getting him information about it. Like the fact that when they pee it burns so badly, every time until it heals, or that it's usually performed without any anesthetic.
I spoke to a doctor about it who told me he hates doing them because it's so cruel. He said "I wish they would make the parents stay in the room when it gets done. A lot less babies would be circumcised if they saw it happen."
Gather information, have him watch videos of it, and if all else fails pull the "I pushed the thing out of my vagina, I decide this."
Seriously, the things you could show your husband are endless. Getting him to read any of this is another story. Click around these websites and read what interests you
https://www.drmomma.org/2011/08/intact-or-circumcised-significant.html
https://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html
https://www.savingsons.org/2013/01/not-normal.html
https://www.savingsons.org/2011/03/he-didnt-cry-babies-in-shock.html
https://www.thewholenetwork.org/
My DS was not circumcised, neither is my DH.
To be completely honest, we couldn't have afforded it at the time our DS was born. But on top of that, I truly believe in equality between women and men (while realizing they are uniquely different). I found it VERY odd that it is completely legal for parents to have their infant sons circumcised in this country, but NOT their daughters. What is up with that!?! Add to that the amount of pain a baby is placed in during such an unnecessary procedure... and that it is not exactly reversible and can have a lifelong impact - yikes! I am totally against it!
Gloria Lemay has an awesome DVD on water birth and circumcision education. The circumcision videos are very educational, with the one being quite scientific. I think it would be great for both of you to sit down and watch the videos together and then discuss parts you found interesting. Beforehand, ask your SO to research information on the benefits of circumcision, while you research the risks! Share the information with each other. Make it a learning opportunity for both of you!
Im not trying to start a war, but I wouldnt pull that with my husband at all. Never. That's a horrible way to start your new relationship as parents. He loves my son as much I do. Men shouldnt be allowed to say "No penis- no say" either.
I didnt want to circumcise, and we ended up doing it. We watched a video of it being done. I showed him the studies that it didnt really help much of anything. He looked at me and said with much sincerity, "I know it'll suck but I just feel like it's really something we should do."
6 months later, at the hospital I work at, we were all almost in tears as a 2 year screamed bloody effin murder as he was held down and cathed 2x because he had an infection. If there are problems with not being circed- thats it. I knew then I had made the right choice for us. Not trying to sway anybody here, but that's what gave me peace about our decision.
Bring as much education as you can, throw down the "I survived" argument (shouldnt our baby do more than survive?), and know that this isnt a compromise thing. One of you will be unhappy. If you have already determined that will be him, you need to be careful to not bring resentment into this.
This link demolishes the myth that circumcised boys are "easier to care for" and that circumcision is less risky than leaving a boy intact as nature made him. There is post after post of mothers talking about their sons' penile adhesions and repeated surgeries to correct them. None of those surgeries would be happening if the boys penis' had been left alone in the first place.
https://community.babycenter.com/post/a10051525/re-circumcision_and_penile_adhesion_surgery?cpg=3&csi=2143002414&pd=1
Fan Share:
I would like to remain anonymous I just wanted to share my story and show everyone a picture of my babies penis after circumcision. It was the biggest mistake I have ever made and I cry thinking about it. I wasn't knowledgeable on the subject and I was under the impression that it was just something everyone did. My SO, dad, brother, everyone I knew was. So I did. It was the most heartbreaking thing. The dr said it "didn't cut right" so he had to singe it. Say what?! Obviously he didn't know what he was doing!! I just cried.
https://imgur.com/TDXVM
Our DS is not circumcised. I decided early in my pregnancy, but it took my DH a while to come around. He mostly avoided thinking about it. It wasn't until I was three weeks from my due date and had to spend a few hours in labor and delivery for high blood pressure where they started talking about induction if it went to high that made him really start to think. Then the pregnancy-leads-to-baby thing became real for him too and he finally started researching. I guess he needed to do the research on his own for it to mean something to him. He agreed that we should leave DS whole.
Some of the main things that helped us:
The vast majority of European males are not circumcised and they do just fine (I was worried about him having a hard time caring for his skin growing up. I just had to keep telling myself this to prevent the worry that I was setting him up for a life of hassle.)
Tonsils, adenoids, apendixes, spleens, and gall bladders frequently cause problems in adulthood and have to be removed through painful surgeries under general anesthesia. We do not remove these from newborns as a preventative measure.
I have folds of genital skin that I have to keep clean and I have *gasp* dealt with yeast infections of said skin. I'm fine. I have no desire to cut off that skin. Seriously, when you think about female equipment, the hygiene argument just looks silly.
I recently learned that more men die of breast cancer than penile cancer, so that argument is also pretty weak.
Both my husband and my little man are uncircumcised. We never really entertained the other option. However, I know it is a difficult topic; my dad questioned this decision for a few silly reasons.
The four pediatricians that were on duty during our hospital stay after having our son literally sighed with relief when we said he was not going to be circumcised. Once you choose your pediatrician, you and your SO should schedule to talk with him/her to get their input. I have a feeling they will share your opinion. At the least, they can give you factual and medical advice on the matter.
On the other side of the spectrum, a close friend of mine and her husband disagreed on this topic as well. She wanted the circ and he did not. He, however, did not want to know the sex of the baby and she did. Since these two things meant a lot to each of them, they compromised by getting the circumcision and keeping the sex a surprise. Their son is happy and healthy and will surely will not remember the ordeal. Maybe, if all else fails, you and your SO could find a compromise that means a lot to both of you?
I am going to be blunt here. Please do not mistake my directness for meanness or snark.
I can't tell you what you should do. I've never faced this decision and do not have strong feelings about it either way. However, you should know that you are not going to win anybody over to your side of the argument when you present it in this fashion. When you talk about circumcision as mutilation and abuse you come off looking like an aggressive, overzealous, crazy. Maybe not on an AP board but IRL, straight up crazy not to mention offensive. If I had a circumcised son and a friend told me my decision was actually abusive and I was cruel I would immediately remove myself from her life. I am sure your SO probably feels like you are considering him to be abusive for his opinion.
First of all, you need to try to see things from his point of view. Is he circumcised? (Just ask yourself this you don't need to tell entire AP board :P) Is that impacting his ideas? What does he feel your son will gain from being circumcised? Why does he feel it would be negative for your son to remain uncircumcised? How is he seeing this issue?
I understand you feel strongly but speaking in such radical terms will get you nowhere. I don't care what you decide to do, as I have said circumcision isn't an issue I've had to face. You and your SO will have to make this decision together and it will be done best with respect, consideration for the other's point of view, and a levelheadedness. Malicious attacks are counterproductive. I hope you can reach a decision you both feel is best for your son. Best of luck.
I agree that is very sad that a little boy cried while getting a catheter placed, but why is that worse than a helpless infant screaming while he is being permanently mutilated?
Further, I think any 2 year old boy, circumcised or not, would cry getting a catheter. Anyone, male or female, can get an infection--it probably had nothing to do with the fact he was uncircumcised.
i completely agree w you & did not circ my son
i think its cruel & doesnt make sense! other than to make drs $$
I didnt even need to bring up why I had peace about my decision now, but it was possible for me. Im not saying it was better. It's what I needed to see to not doubt myself every diaper change. I was being honest when I said I wasnt trying to sway a soul. I dont believe in it. I also believe in it's being completely unnecessary, as well as too risky and not mutilation. My husband felt strongly about it and while so did I, it boiled down to yes or no.
There are many different camps on this subject. Im simply bringing our story since I had this problem as well. I made a hard decision and felt more like OP's husband will if he is left intact.
OMG. I have no words...
Actually, the trend in most of the US is more people are not circumcising, so you're more in line with the societal trend... but I digress.
Honestly, I would have a difficult time taking your opinion seriously if you were my spouse too. People who take this extremest view rarely gain support in their cause and end up isolating people vs getting others to see their point of view.
I think your best bet is to have a rational discussion with your DH about it. Instead of sounding like a crazed lunatic who yells that it's barbaric, try to find some unbiased sources that showcase the benefits. I would avoid the sites like savingsons and drmomma which show very little scientific evidence and are more fear mongering than fact based--get evidence from scientific journals instead since people are going to take that more seriously. Avoid trying to sway him to watch the video that has circulated of a circumcision--many hospitals/doctors use pain management techniques so that's just presenting circumcision in an inaccurate light. Find some real, legitimate stuff instead. Interview a pediatrician and ask them their thoughts on the procedure. Ask real questions like what (if anything) they use for pain management, the benefits and the risks. Make an informed decision together as a united front vs sounding like a brainwashed person on the trendy anti-circ bandwagon. I think if you bring a more rational argument, you have a better chance of getting him to see your side of things.
All of this. My DH is circumcised, but we decided not to circ DS. I was very much against it from the beginning, DH was leaning towards doing it, but was open to learning more. He is the type to research everything and do whatever the APA says. When they no longer recommended doing it, he was on board.
We didn't circumcise our son. My husband is circumcised and after the simple question of doing it came up (I already knew I was totally against it but wanted him to come to his own conclusions as well) he did a little research and became more aggressively anti-cutting than I was. I didn't click all the above links, but a lighthearted and easy (?) way to approach it with your DH is telling him about all the nerve endings in the foreskin and how much better sex would be for your son. Hmmm, that looks highly inappropriate written out, but I swear the first thing my husband refers to when we talk about how happy we are that we didn't do it is that his son still has all those nerve endings!
Ok, I'm embarrassed now.
It absolutely is comparable to female circumcision. The only difference is that one is culturally acceptable in this country and one is not. From what I understand there are three "levels" of female circumcision performed and male circumcision is comparable to levels 1 and 2. What you described is a particularly barbaric level 3.
As for your comparison to a nose ring, that is a ridiculous and stupid comparison. In one case, the most sensitive part of a boy's body is permanently removed with no ability for him to consent or refuse. In the other, a teenager gets a nose ring that can be removed at any time leaving a tiny hole. There is NOTHING similar about the two. Nothing.
That's only true in the culture of the United States, and even then it's no longer a "crazy" opinion to have. In most other (industrialized) nations the overwhelming opinion is that it's mutation and barbaric.
DD's little sister met and married an Irishman and they moved to his hometown of Cork, Ireland. When she was pregnant with her first she asked her doctor about circumcision and she was met with questions asking why she would choose to do such a barbaric and horrific thing to her child. Words from her doctor.
That was pretty much what it took for DH to change his mind on the matter, regardless of all other tactics I had tried.
DD2 8.22.13
MMC 1.4.17 at 16w
Expecting #3, EDD 1.29.18
I understand that YOU think female circ. is worse. Well, I don't. We can just disagree on that. I've done a considerable amount of research in order to make the decision for my son, and I truly do not see the difference. If believing that boys and girls are equally owed full bodily integrity makes me nuts, well then call me nuts. I'll wear that label with pride in this case.
And I wasn't actually comparing a nose ring with male circ, just that "mutilation" is a ridiculously strong word to use for the removal of a foreskin. It isn't mutilation to circumcise and it isn't mutilation to pierce one's body, regardless of whether it is voluntary or not.
I'd say whether or not it's mutilation is a matter of opinion, not fact. It is permanently altering the penis, in appearance and functionality. I can't say it's totally ridiculous for people to consider that mutilation.
Obviously it's a very sensitive topic, and referring to circ'd penises as mutilated will incite a visceral reaction. So depending on the audience, it's probably better to say something with less negative connotations.
The majority of the world would disagree with your assertion it is a "very acceptable" option. It is still culturally acceptable (for now) in the US, but that's about it.
I found this presentation to be well researched and factually based. Yes, the presenter is against circumcision, but there is a lot of valuable content.
https://www.notjustskin.org/node/7
(Sorry my browser will not make it clicky.)
I think this is equally as bad as the "I decided to circ my kid since I wanted him to match his daddy." or choosing not to vaccinate since Jenny McCarthy told you not to. Showing a video which isn't an accurate glimpse of all circumcisions in America is just a terrible idea.
I think it's an important decision and parents should research both sides. For all the anti-circ propaganda you read you should read what the AAP or the CDC states. You should research what John Hopkins (the top rated hospital in the US) has found in 20 years of research and what they have found to be the benefits of the procedure. Read lots of sources with .edu in the title, not what the saving penises people pick and choose to show you to push their own agenda.
Don't get me wrong--its completely fine and a good choice to not circumcise and I certainly don't think that it's a mandatory procedure but you should be informed (and encourage your spouse be informed) so you can make an educated decision together. If you don't think the benefits outweigh the risks and choose not to circ, that's totally fine. Using fear mongering to make a decision for your spouse is just terrible though--and showing a circ without pain medicine is just that.
There's no such thing as a "routine circumcision". There's a number of different pain management techniques so the child's reaction will change based on what level of pain management was provided. Was the child in the video completely asleep before, during, and after the procedure? That was definitely my son's "routine circumcision".
I'm glad you made an informed decision--it just sounded an awful lot like "well I showed my DH this scary video to get him to my side" as your advice to the OP.
How do you know your son was asleep during the procedure? Were you there? I'm genuinely curious.
kbruington you seem to be the only woman in here who has hacked up her sons penis and you seem pretty darn defensive over it. Look, you have quoted and replied to almost every single anti circ post. I still dont get what you are hoping to accomplish by being in here. Should we pat you on the back and tell you that you're a good mom?
I actually totally agree this didnt need to turn into a should we do it??? thing. BUT!
Circing doesnt make you a bad mom. You told me that I mutilated my son's perfectly healed little pene. No I didnt. I made an informed decision with every step. So no, it's not mutilated. It's circumcised. Circing is hacking up a penis? Please.
There is a difference between mom bashing and spreading information.
ETA you also said this thread is for people who didnt circ. Nope It's for people with differing views and how you moved passed them. I circed and still had info on the subject because we went through the process.
Wow, when I posted about circumcision I never expected to get such an overload of responses! I admit that after reading them all I am pretty disappointed with the content, over all. I was hoping to get more personal experience-type stories along with why you think you did the right thing, or why you think you didn't.
I have done tons and tons of research; medical-based, not propaganda. And although I used my post to vent a bit, I am not a screaming meemie. I am a highly educated woman with excellent conversation skills, which I use when approaching this and other issues with the man of my dreams.
At any rate, thank you to those who posters who did share some information and personal insight.
Hapopywife, I live in Europe. From our perspective, it seems really strange to have your son circumsized. Our men keep their foreskins, everyone lives. In case of a medical necessity, like with both my DH and my father, they can always have a circumcision later. So we definitely won't do it.
If your DH worries about their partners' sexual preference (awkward, but I know this is a con for some), I had sex with both sides and never noticed the difference. I don't think they did either.
There is a huge different between male and female circumcision though. I don't agree with either, but the male variety heals quickly and never causes any concerns afterwards. Some people think it might affect their sex life, but if this is true, definitely not in a major way. In some cases, there is a medical necessity.
Female circumcision doesn't heal, hurts forever, causes frequent infections throughout life, makes peeing and menses hell, and has a huge effect on a future sex life, often making any sexual pleasure impossible. There is never a medical advantage. It is not uncommon for girls/women to die from complications due to circumcision. So yeah, big difference.
Yes.
Like I said, I don't have an opinion on the matter. I have a girl and I don't care about anybody else's son's penises....I really don't. BUT when you start speaking in such outrageous terms people will tend to look at you like a radical nut. And most level headed people do not take radical extremists seriously. OP said she didn't want to be too aggressive when talking with her husband and her terms and attitude are too aggressive.
Also, equating female circumcision to male circumcision is ridiculous. No truly educated person would believe and argue they are the same. OP I hope you can reach an agreement with your H that works for both of you. Best of luck.
I said something because I didn't agree with your advice. It seemed like you were saying "just show him a scary video like I did, then he'll be on your side!" which seemed a whole lot more like fear mongering vs education. When you clarified all you did with your DH to make the decision, I wish that was what your initial advice to the OP was.
I believe it's important parents make informed decisions for their children.
Hmmmm...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreskin