Working Moms

Update to how would you respond to this

So, I e-mailed the lady and said that what DH and I do is our own business and I would appreciate to be allowed to raise my family the way I see fit. I did tell her that I was offended because what she said was hurtful> Well, apparently, she went and cried to our leader and last night, I was publicly shamed. They didn't say my name but said if I don't offer forgiveness, I'll be kicked out of the group. I really don't want to leave the group, so I am going to offer up some fake forgiveness because I am still mad about the situation. This is why I generally don't do church groups. le sigh!
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Re: Update to how would you respond to this

  • yeah - that sounds like a great supportive group to be a part of that will help you grow as a person.  Ugh
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  • YOU have to offer forgiveness but she doesn't?  Wow.

    Clearly you want to stay in that group, but I think I'd be running in th eother direction and looking for a better group to join. 

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  • I would tell them all to *uck off and I would leave the group.  Screw them.
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  • I just can't wrap my head around this.

    I would NOT apologize. If you want to keep going, then keep attending the meetings. It's not like they are going to call the cops to remove you.
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  • I would just stop going all together and join a different group or activity.

     

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  • That is ridiculous! I have been a part of church groups, but I would never allow myself to be shamed. That is outrageous!
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  • I don't understand: Forgiveness for what? What are you going to say: "I'm sorry for not immediately running out and quitting my job?"

    And she tattled on you? To the leader, like in grade school? And you were "publicly shamed?!"

    I agree with everyone else. Leave the group. If you like some of the other members, socialize with them outside this particular forum. What could you possibly get out of being part of a group that public shames women for, one, working and, two, not being apologetic about it?
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  • If the group leader had a problem with the way you handled a problem s/he should bring it up with you.  There are 2 sides to every story.  Which is what I would put in an email to the leader before I gave the middle finger and left.  Seriously, what kind of cliquey BS is that?!
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  • imageEllaHella:

    I would respond by leaving the church and finding new one.  Public shaming is unacceptable overstepping of religion used to oppress the followers and manipulate, imo. 

    I am so mad for you.  

     All of this

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  • imageMammaBear81:
    imageEllaHella:

    I would respond by leaving the church and finding new one.  Public shaming is unacceptable overstepping of religion used to oppress the followers and manipulate, imo. 

    I am so mad for you.  

     All of this

    Definitely this.  OP, ask yourself why you don't want to leave.  Do you feel it's healthy for you to be part of a group that doesn't respect you as a person, publicly shames you and requires you to apologize to someone who hurt you?  Where is the benefit to this group?  Do you truly feel like there is no better group of people out there in the world to surround yourself with?  I just can't imagine wanting to be a part of that group. 

    Formerly known as elmoali :)

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  • I am not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, but the whole group doesn't sound very "Christian" to me. They sound petty, judgemental, and a group that I would want no part of. There are plenty of churches out there who are truly accepting and non-judgemental-I'd find one of those and not go through the motions of a fake apology.
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  • Wow. I seriously couldn't be a part of group like that.
  • whoa, what??? you are suppose to offer up an apology to the woman who wayyyy overstepped her bounds?  yeah.  no way in hell.  I'd tell them to take their group and shove it.  and I would probably send an email to the "leader" and call them out about their poor handling of the situation.
  • imageEllaHella:

    I would respond by leaving the church and finding new one.  Public shaming is unacceptable overstepping of religion used to oppress the followers and manipulate, imo. 

    I am so mad for you.  

    I'm totally on board with this idea....although I'd be tempted to take it one step further. Since she ran and tattled to the group leader like a big baby, I'd not only leave the church, but I'd contact the pastor (I'm assuming since you said "leader" that this person is not the pastor) and let him/her know why you are leaving. Don't do it in a tattle tale kind of manner, but more in a way of, "You might wish to know that this is going on in this group, and I only bring it up because, if this has occurred with me about this issue, I'm sure it will happen again in the future with someone else, over this issue or over something else that they deem inappropriate."

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  • OP, I am so sorry. I am honestly floored by the response of the woman and the group leader. Do they know the whole story?

    Personally, there is no way I could apologize to this woman or go on being part of the group if that is what they expected. Apologizing will definitely open the door for more meddling because now she now only thinks she is right but thinks she has the backing of the church in her belief.

    Are there other groups nearby that you could join? 

     

  • Seriously?!  I would publicly tell them they could kiss my ass.  I don't understand why you would want to stay in a group with people who treat you so poorly. 
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  • If you really want to stay maybe you can ask the leader and other woman for a meeting.  See if the pastor or leader will mediate and you can discuss what happened and why there is no reason for you to apologize.

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  • What is your possible motivation for staying in this group?  WTF?

    There are plenty of supportive groups and individuals that will not make you sell your soul for inclusion.

    promised myself I'd retire when I turned gold, and yet here I am
  • and this is why I don't do religion.

     

    I'm not the best to offer advice on this, heathen that I am, but I know that there ARE churches out there that are more supportive and less judgmental than your group is being.  I'm a bit surprised, because your info says you're in Las Vegas, and I would have thought that churches out there would be eager to minister to people from all walks of life.  

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  • imageEMO-mamma:
    If you really want to stay maybe you can ask the leader and other woman for a meeting.  See if the pastor or leader will mediate and you can discuss what happened and why there is no reason for you to apologize.
    Or go and talk to the leader yourself one on one and talk to her about the situation.

    I'm not really sure why the only option, as you see it, is to "ask for forgiveness" and to just go along with this. 

     

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    ~Benjamin Franklin

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  • This group has 30 women in it and from what I ascertained, only 3 know the situation and they are the ones being jerks. The public shaming was totally anonymous (they were talking about how you can't act like a two year old when somebody hurts you and if you won't forgive someone who hurt you, you will be asked to leave). But it was obvious to me that it was directed towards me because forgiveness was not hte original topic of the evening. That's why I don't want to leave. I love the others and they have been there for me through some really difficult times the last year. I just don't know what to do! I didn't feel telling somebody that they hurt me and I want to have my business be my business was mean.
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  • imagelovebug33:
    This group has 30 women in it and from what I ascertained, only 3 know the situation and they are the ones being jerks. The public shaming was totally anonymous (they were talking about how you can't act like a two year old when somebody hurts you and if you won't forgive someone who hurt you, you will be asked to leave). But it was obvious to me that it was directed towards me because forgiveness was not hte original topic of the evening. That's why I don't want to leave. I love the others and they have been there for me through some really difficult times the last year. I just don't know what to do! I didn't feel telling somebody that they hurt me and I want to have my business be my business was mean.

    So, of 30 women in a group, one decided to get judgemental and repeatedly criticize you for your choices and then when you stood up for yourself and said thanks, but we're fine, please MYOB, the leader decided you were acting like a 2 year old and called you out in front of the rest of the group? 

    I would tell everyone else in the group what's going on and that you are basically being bullied by 2 people for no reason.  I really don't get this situation. .. 

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  • imagelovebug33:
    This group has 30 women in it and from what I ascertained, only 3 know the situation and they are the ones being jerks. The public shaming was totally anonymous (they were talking about how you can't act like a two year old when somebody hurts you and if you won't forgive someone who hurt you, you will be asked to leave). But it was obvious to me that it was directed towards me because forgiveness was not hte original topic of the evening. That's why I don't want to leave. I love the others and they have been there for me through some really difficult times the last year. I just don't know what to do! I didn't feel telling somebody that they hurt me and I want to have my business be my business was mean.

    Absolutely inappropriate. I understand that you like the group at large but I think you need to have a sit down with the offender and the leader if you really want to stay. The leader is only getting half of the story and has no business placing judgement on you.

    It's been awhile since I've done the church thing but from what I remember it isn't man's job to judge.

  • imageEMO-mamma:
    If you really want to stay maybe you can ask the leader and other woman for a meeting.  See if the pastor or leader will mediate and you can discuss what happened and why there is no reason for you to apologize.
    this. I have been part of different church groups, but I would be really hurt if something was handled this way. If you do want to stay,I think that the above suggestions is good. 
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  • Wow!  Just wow!  Why on Earth do you want to be a part of this group?  I think your idea to offer up an apology is awful.  Don't do it and find a new group! 
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  • I am so angry for you, and not being religious myself, wouldn't be particularly inclined to forgiveness.  That said, if the group is important to you and you want to continue to participate, I would arrange a meeting between you, the leader, and Dr. Laura's groupee.  I would state that you have been hurting from groupee's comments throughout your pregnancy and child's life and that he comments are insulting to the choices that you and your husband have made your family.  I would then go on and tell her that you know she was probably doing this from a good place and with good intentions, and that you forgive her, you just want her to understand clearly that further advice is not welcomed.  And then, ask her to forgive you for hurting her feelings with your email.

    I would hope that doing the above would put a stop to the situation.  If it doesn't and she goes running to the leader every time you stand up for yourself, I would really re-consider participation in the group, as public shaming and forced forgiveness sounds like bullying to me.

    Good luck- I hope you can find a way to work this out. 

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  • I'm not good with confrontation. I either don't say anything or I get really mean. I do just want to say stick and leave, but the other ladies I've grown close to. Aargh! Why does being an adult have to be so difficult!
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  • imagelovebug33:
    I'm not good with confrontation. I either don't say anything or I get really mean. I do just want to say stick and leave, but the other ladies I've grown close to. Aargh! Why does being an adult have to be so difficult!

    Why can't you be friends with the ladies outside of the church?  Is it because they wouldn't be allowed to socialize with you?

    If that's the case.....let it sink it for a while.  Seriously, think that mindset through.

     

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  • Does everyone in your church/your ladies group believe in Dr. Laura's advice about being a SAHM?  If that's the case, I would really question whether this is a group you want to keep participating - if they are always going to be judging and criticizing you and your family's choices. I would think a church group should be a place where you can feel accepted, not criticized.
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  • imageEllaHella:

    I would respond by leaving the church and finding new one.  Public shaming is unacceptable overstepping of religion used to oppress the followers and manipulate, imo. 

    I am so mad for you.  

    me too. 

  • imagelovebug33:
    I'm not good with confrontation. I either don't say anything or I get really mean. I do just want to say stick and leave, but the other ladies I've grown close to. Aargh! Why does being an adult have to be so difficult!

    I HATE confrontation as well, but if you don't say anything (or do the fake apology) it's going to fester, and one day you will either be completely resentful of the group (because bully's don't just stop picking on people) or you are going to hit your boiling point an blow up inappropriately and look like the @$$ in the situation.

    If you need to email the leader, and CC the pastor because you can't do it in person, then so be it, but PLEASE do not do nothing! Speaking from experience (not necessarily church groups) it doesn't get any better when you bury things, they always come back to haunt you.  I'm sorry this church group has some nasty people, there are church groups out there that are really great, and respectful!

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  • Well the martyr has some balls-doesn't she? 

    If you like the group-keep going to the meetings. However, I wouldn't be blackmailed into offering forgiveness. Now that you took the opportunity to tell her how you felt--I would keep going the course. Case closed.

    If the 'rat' decides to personally come out and apologize and then ask for forgiveness -like an adult- then it is your choice whether to offer it or not to her personally. This has nothing to do with the leader, or the group.

    You have a right to be there-as well as you have a right to work without being wrongly labeled as selfish or being pressured to ease your family's imminent demise-- simply because your choice to work is different than her choice to stay home.

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  • (they were talking about how you can't act like a two year old when somebody hurts you and if you won't forgive someone who hurt you, you will be asked to leave).

    ....And when you are called on offending someone-you don't act like a rat. You go to the person (in person) and apologize. Then that same adult seeks forgiveness by correcting the wrong in the future (like by staying out of your business)-not by blackmailing for forgiveness now

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  • I'm a lurker, but I'm infuriated for you! Their response is in no way okay or Christlike! Plus, sounds like they need a refresher course in biblical conflict resolution:

    Proverbs 18:17The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.

    Sounds pretty spot on to me.

    According to Matthew 18:1517, you did the right thing: you contacted your "friend" privately. She should have done the same. The leader should have asked to meet with both of you to hear your side as well, and only if that didn't work should anyone else have been involved.

    Of course, the Bible also has a lot to say about forgiveness on BOTH sides, not just whoever runs to the teacher first.

    If you're interested in reconciliation, perhaps you, your friend, and the leader could meet with the pastor to discuss how the group [mis]handled conflict. What they are doing to you is awful and the church leadership needs to know. If you do not get a swift apology, run away. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.

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  • Sorry but I would stand up and say that there were a multitude of sins here.  First sin was the judgment of this woman on how you raised your family.  No one was being hurt and it was not a dangerous situation.  So her judgement was unnecessary, unwarranted and unwanted.  Second was the judgement of the group leader who never bothered to hear the other side of the story but immediately jumped to conclusions and hurled "anonymous" accusations."  Third sin was of this woman crying about forgiveness but never seeking it from the offender.  That is not a plea for forgiveness but a willful manipulation of a group to incite them against another.  Hypocrisy at its highest. If your actions of  telling  the woman truthfully that you were hurt by her unwanted advice and want to do your own family thing and for her to but out constitute a sin in their eyes -- that truthfulness, honesty and openness are now classified as "sins" -- that perhaps this was a call from God for them to examine their own hearts and rip from themselves the offending hypocrisy, judgment and intolerance that are the real sins at issue.  Nothing happened, I'd bail.  That's not an example I'd want for my family.

    ETA: I see you say you are non-confrontational.  But this is something you need to address.  Sometimes you need to find the courage to speak if only as a message to your children to take action to stand up for themselves.  Oftentimes writing it down and reading from that can help you to organize your thoughts and message.  You don't need to stand to deliver this either.  Just say it.  GL!


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  • So...are you 100% sure that you were the one that the pastor was referring to?  Could the lecture been pointed at the woman who made the statement in the first place? 

     Personally, I would play dumb and go and talk to the pastor about the sermon, ask for help on giving forgiveness to a person who has pushed their beliefs on you without regard to your lifestyle/life choices, a person who is blind to another's reality. 

    If anything, I would at least take the opportunity to tell your side of the story, since the pastor seems so quick to judge.

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  • I'm confused too.  You only offer forgiveness when someone offers an apology.  Did the lady do that?

    I'm a Christian (Bible bumping, born again kind) and even I think it's ridiculous.  I'd go to the director in person and ask her for clarification.  If you didn't like her answer, I'd take it to the pastor/elder who is ultimately in charge of the program. That's just weird.

  • I'm actually going to add - nothing has been said directly to you, right? so... I wouldn't offer forgiveness in a situation that I only THINK is about me.

    They want you to offer forgiveness?  Then they can talk directly to you about it. 

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  • Until you are actually called out and told to give an apology or else, I'd just ignore it. 

    And if that actually does happen - I think you'd be a loon to apologize.  If any of those women are your true friends, they can be your friends outside of this one church group.  Host a regular Bible study at your house or something.

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  • imagejnealet:

    So...are you 100% sure that you were the one that the pastor was referring to?  Could the lecture been pointed at the woman who made the statement in the first place? 

     

    That's what I'm wondering, she's the one who acted like a two-year-old by tattling and she's the one who was offended and needs to forgive.

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