UO?

sbevmc09 · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

sbevmc09 · July 2012

ssisland:
hansonam446:
I try to be understanding of everyone's beliefs. I know not everyone will agree with me but I just don't get Log Cabin Republicans. How can you be affiliated with people who don't want you to marry your SO?
It is likely a matter of these individuals picking the party that they feel supports the majority of their beliefs. Maybe marriage isn't really that big of a deal for these individuals compared with many other issues. There probably aren't many individuals out there that can say 100% of the beliefs of one party or the other align with what they believe. I think many individuals that are part of the Log Cabin Republicans just want the role of government in their lives limited and they feel that aligning with the Republican party is the best option. Though many would argue that the Libertarian Party platform is even better.

I think that what you're saying makes sense, ssisland, but something I don't understand (and anyone, please feel free to inform me) is for a group whose beliefs lie in restricting governmental power/involvement in our lives why then are they so obsessed with dictating who can civilly marry? It doesn't seem to align with their purported beliefs, KWIM?

akating · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

THIS! My religious organization does not support gay marriage but they would never go and picket a gay wedding or even say anything negative to someone who is gay and wants to get married. However they wouldn't hold a wedding for them because of their stance on it. They don't support it because they follow the bible and feel that scriptures say that gay marriage is wrong. They also wouldn't stand in on an anti gay rally or fight against gay rights either.

sbevmc09 · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Well, as I said, I certainly don't feel that any churches whose interpretation of the Bible tells them that homosexuality is wrong should be forced to perform marriages they don't agree with. But it's still anti-gay to say that who a person is is wrong (whatever your basis) and they shouldn't be allowed the same things the rest of us are. It just is. I guess I don't understand the whole "government shouldn't be involved in marriage" thing at all. Maybe it makes me feel better about it that you don't think anyone should be entitled to civil marriage? Or maybe it makes me feel worse because that goes against a lot of people. I mean... there are obviously a lot of benefits/rights that come along with marriage. I don't really see how it's fair to say that people married outside of a religious union shouldn't be entitled to those things. I mean, God doesn't have much to do with my being entitled to my husband's insurance benefits, you know? I don't understand how that could go against one's religion.

akating · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Yeah... Totally agree. I am not going to change my religious beliefs just because it is considered to be unfair to others. I don't vote against gay rights just as I don't vote for it either. If things were reversed and gay marriage was legal and the country was actively trying to change it to be illegal I wouldn't vote for that either. It isn't my choice. It is their choice. But the moment I vote to allow something I don't agree with morally forces me to agree with it. I choose to take the hands off approach.

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

akating:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Yeah... Totally agree. I am not going to change my religious beliefs just because it is considered to be unfair to others. I don't vote against gay rights just as I don't vote for it either. If things were reversed and gay marriage was legal and the country was actively trying to change it to be illegal I wouldn't vote for that either. It isn't my choice. It is their choice. But the moment I vote to allow something I don't agree with morally forces me to agree with it. I choose to take the hands off approach.

Yep- this exactly.

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Well, as I said, I certainly don't feel that any churches whose interpretation of the Bible tells them that homosexuality is wrong should be forced to perform marriages they don't agree with. But it's still anti-gay to say that who a person is is wrong (whatever your basis) and they shouldn't be allowed the same things the rest of us are. It just is. I guess I don't understand the whole "government shouldn't be involved in marriage" thing at all. Maybe it makes me feel better about it that you don't think anyone should be entitled to civil marriage? Or maybe it makes me feel worse because that goes against a lot of people. I mean... there are obviously a lot of benefits/rights that come along with marriage. I don't really see how it's fair to say that people married outside of a religious union shouldn't be entitled to those things. I mean, God doesn't have much to do with my being entitled to my husband's insurance benefits, you know? I don't understand how that could go against one's religion.

And this is the whole reason for us disagreeing on the issue.... I view things through my religious lense... you do not. Everything in my life has to do with God.... in my life there is no separation of church and state... my morals are my morals no matter what situation I am in.

My point in my PP was that marriage IMO is a religious ceremony between a man, a woman and God... and therefore I would be fine with the government staying out of my marriage. I get that without the state being involved, my husband could not be on my insurance through work- I compeltely understand that. It is a complicated issue- but at the base of it, for me, marriage is a religious institution. It's fine if you disagree with me on that, as a lot of people do, but you also wont change my mind, just like I will not change your mind.

nycitygirl1 · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

lulamagoo · July 2012

I think they should put the sicko who murdered innocent people in Colorado during Batman in a regular jail cell and just let the other inmates take care of it.

IMO, no sense in wasting tax dollars to feed him and house him.

This might make be a bad person, and I know it is not very Christian of me, but it is the way I feel.

I also pray for him every night in hope that he realizes the horror that he created.

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

Hmm.... thats not true at all. I posted this in the UO thread because I know that it's an UO. I understand that if you are not religious then you will not understand my reasoning... which I clearly explained in my OPs. We look at things/life differently. I completely disagree that this is the same thing as segregated schools and drinking fountains.

It is wrong according to my religious beliefs. There is really no reason for me to even be discussing this because if you do not have the same religious convictions then it is nearly impossible to even have the conversation.

MrsRiceARoni · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Well, as I said, I certainly don't feel that any churches whose interpretation of the Bible tells them that homosexuality is wrong should be forced to perform marriages they don't agree with. But it's still anti-gay to say that who a person is is wrong (whatever your basis) and they shouldn't be allowed the same things the rest of us are. It just is. I guess I don't understand the whole "government shouldn't be involved in marriage" thing at all. Maybe it makes me feel better about it that you don't think anyone should be entitled to civil marriage? Or maybe it makes me feel worse because that goes against a lot of people. I mean... there are obviously a lot of benefits/rights that come along with marriage. I don't really see how it's fair to say that people married outside of a religious union shouldn't be entitled to those things. I mean, God doesn't have much to do with my being entitled to my husband's insurance benefits, you know? I don't understand how that could go against one's religion.

And this is the whole reason for us disagreeing on the issue.... I view things through my religious lense... you do not. Everything in my life has to do with God.... in my life there is no separation of church and state... my morals are my morals no matter what situation I am in.

My point in my PP was that marriage IMO is a religious ceremony between a man, a woman and God... and therefore I would be fine with the government staying out of my marriage. I get that without the state being involved, my husband could not be on my insurance through work- I compeltely understand that. It is a complicated issue- but at the base of it, for me, marriage is a religious institution. It's fine if you disagree with me on that, as a lot of people do, but you also wont change my mind, just like I will not change your mind.

Mrsodonnell12 I think I could hug you right now! lol I feel how she does on pretty much everything she's said. I believe that God created marriage and that he defines it as being between one man and one woman. I do not agree with gay marriage as it goes against my personal convictions. That being said I have several gay family members that I love very much, I am loving towards them and their SO even tho I do not agree with their lifestyle choices. I was actually a bridesmaid in one of my cousins commitment ceremony/wedding, which at the time I didn't think anything about but have since have felt convicted about my participation. As hard as it would be for my family to understand I don't believe I'd be able to go to another similar event even for a family member. I understand that many do not share my feelings on this, but my feelings on this subject are based on my studies in the bible and the convictions that God has placed on my heart. It'd be hurtful and untrue to say that I hate gay people, there are many gay people in my life that I love very much. But as much as I may love them I disagree with their life stye and do not feel that I can support it without damaging my own testimony to God.

As for Chic-Fil-A I only tried them for the first time about a year ago and I do love their spicy chicken sandwich but don't care much for anything else there. I probably go there more because of their owner's courage in being outspoken about being a christian. I also have a lot of respect for their chosing not to be open on Sunday's, even tho it drives me nuts when I want to go their on a Sunday and they aren't open.

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

MrsRiceARoni:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Well, as I said, I certainly don't feel that any churches whose interpretation of the Bible tells them that homosexuality is wrong should be forced to perform marriages they don't agree with. But it's still anti-gay to say that who a person is is wrong (whatever your basis) and they shouldn't be allowed the same things the rest of us are. It just is. I guess I don't understand the whole "government shouldn't be involved in marriage" thing at all. Maybe it makes me feel better about it that you don't think anyone should be entitled to civil marriage? Or maybe it makes me feel worse because that goes against a lot of people. I mean... there are obviously a lot of benefits/rights that come along with marriage. I don't really see how it's fair to say that people married outside of a religious union shouldn't be entitled to those things. I mean, God doesn't have much to do with my being entitled to my husband's insurance benefits, you know? I don't understand how that could go against one's religion.

And this is the whole reason for us disagreeing on the issue.... I view things through my religious lense... you do not. Everything in my life has to do with God.... in my life there is no separation of church and state... my morals are my morals no matter what situation I am in.

My point in my PP was that marriage IMO is a religious ceremony between a man, a woman and God... and therefore I would be fine with the government staying out of my marriage. I get that without the state being involved, my husband could not be on my insurance through work- I compeltely understand that. It is a complicated issue- but at the base of it, for me, marriage is a religious institution. It's fine if you disagree with me on that, as a lot of people do, but you also wont change my mind, just like I will not change your mind.

Mrsodonnell12 I think I could hug you right now! lol I feel how she does on pretty much everything she's said. I believe that God created marriage and that he defines it as being between one man and one woman. I do not agree with gay marriage as it goes against my personal convictions. That being said I have several gay family members that I love very much, I am loving towards them and their SO even tho I do not agree with their lifestyle choices. I was actually a bridesmaid in one of my cousins commitment ceremony/wedding, which at the time I didn't think anything about but have since have felt convicted about my participation. As hard as it would be for my family to understand I don't believe I'd be able to go to another similar event even for a family member. I understand that many do not share my feelings on this, but my feelings on this subject are based on my studies in the bible and the convictions that God has placed on my heart. It'd be hurtful and untrue to say that I hate gay people, there are many gay people in my life that I love very much. But as much as I may love them I disagree with their life stye and do not feel that I can support it without damaging my own testimony to God.

As for Chic-Fil-A I only tried them for the first time about a year ago and I do love their spicy chicken sandwich but don't care much for anything else there. I probably go there more because of their owner's courage in being outspoken about being a christian. I also have a lot of respect for their chosing not to be open on Sunday's, even tho it drives me nuts when I want to go their on a Sunday and they aren't open.

Thank you- you said what I was thinking but couldnt get out on paper!

nycitygirl1 · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

Hmm.... thats not true at all. I posted this in the UO thread because I know that it's an UO. I understand that if you are not religious then you will not understand my reasoning... which I clearly explained in my OPs. We look at things/life differently. I completely disagree that this is the same thing as segregated schools and drinking fountains.

It is wrong according to my religious beliefs. There is really no reason for me to even be discussing this because if you do not have the same religious convictions then it is nearly impossible to even have the conversation.

I understand that you posted this on UO. That said, you can't expect to make anti-gay remarks and not have anyone challenge you about this. I believe I was respectful in my response, despite how ignorant I find your comments.

I also understand this goes against your religious beliefs, which you are entitled to. However, here in America we have a separation of Church and State. Thank goodness we do not live in a country governed by the Church -- such as some of the countries in the Middle East where religion is used as a weapon to keep other people down who may have differing beliefs, be of a different gender, etc.The whole point of separation of Church and State is that it allows religious freedom for everyone while protecting people of different beliefs EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW.

My point is that marriage is NOT a religious institution as it is recognized by the American government and has an impact on things like taxes. I respect that homosexuals will not be getting married by within the church you attend - I don't take issue with that. However, your church's religious beliefs should not stop a homosexual couple from being able to walk down to City Hall and get married, like all of the rest of us heterosexual folks can.

I find it interesting that you don't see the similarities between the discrimination of blacks and the discrimination against homosexuals.

MrsRiceARoni · July 2012

nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

Hmm.... thats not true at all. I posted this in the UO thread because I know that it's an UO. I understand that if you are not religious then you will not understand my reasoning... which I clearly explained in my OPs. We look at things/life differently. I completely disagree that this is the same thing as segregated schools and drinking fountains.

It is wrong according to my religious beliefs. There is really no reason for me to even be discussing this because if you do not have the same religious convictions then it is nearly impossible to even have the conversation.

I understand that you posted this on UO. That said, you can't expect to make anti-gay remarks and not have anyone challenge you about this. I believe I was respectful in my response, despite how ignorant I find your comments.

I also understand this goes against your religious beliefs, which you are entitled to. However, here in America we have a separation of Church and State. Thank goodness we do not live in a country governed by the Church -- such as some of the countries in the Middle East where religion is used as a weapon to keep other people down who may have differing beliefs, be of a different gender, etc.The whole point of separation of Church and State is that it allows religious freedom for everyone while protecting people of different beliefs EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW.

My point is that marriage is NOT a religious institution as it is recognized by the American government and has an impact on things like taxes. I respect that homosexuals will not be getting married by within the church you attend - I don't take issue with that. However, your church's religious beliefs should not stop a homosexual couple from being able to walk down to City Hall and get married, like all of the rest of us heterosexual folks can.

I find it interesting that you don't see the similarities between the discrimination of blacks and the discrimination against homosexuals.

I find it comical when people use the idea of seperation of church and state to try to keep churches from influencing the government, but at the same time have no problem with the government attacking churches. As for marrige not being a religious institution, to those of us that believe that God created marriage it is. He created marriage far before government ever existed so he gets to determine how it is defined. Obviously that wont stop the government from trying to change how marriage is defined, but atleast for now most states still recognize marriage as being between a man and a woman like it was when it was originally started back with Adam and Eve.

Karschingham · July 2012

I don't like the name board. Or asking strangers (no offense!!) what they think I should name my babe, I think it should be something for you and your family and whatever you like go for it! that's all.

OH and MrsOdonnell...super jealous that you can get Ellen tickets anytime! swing by Iowa and I'll pay half for Cali!

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

Hmm.... thats not true at all. I posted this in the UO thread because I know that it's an UO. I understand that if you are not religious then you will not understand my reasoning... which I clearly explained in my OPs. We look at things/life differently. I completely disagree that this is the same thing as segregated schools and drinking fountains.

It is wrong according to my religious beliefs. There is really no reason for me to even be discussing this because if you do not have the same religious convictions then it is nearly impossible to even have the conversation.

I understand that you posted this on UO. That said, you can't expect to make anti-gay remarks and not have anyone challenge you about this. I believe I was respectful in my response, despite how ignorant I find your comments.

I also understand this goes against your religious beliefs, which you are entitled to. However, here in America we have a separation of Church and State. Thank goodness we do not live in a country governed by the Church -- such as some of the countries in the Middle East where religion is used as a weapon to keep other people down who may have differing beliefs, be of a different gender, etc.The whole point of separation of Church and State is that it allows religious freedom for everyone while protecting people of different beliefs EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW.

My point is that marriage is NOT a religious institution as it is recognized by the American government and has an impact on things like taxes. I respect that homosexuals will not be getting married by within the church you attend - I don't take issue with that. However, your church's religious beliefs should not stop a homosexual couple from being able to walk down to City Hall and get married, like all of the rest of us heterosexual folks can.

I find it interesting that you don't see the similarities between the discrimination of blacks and the discrimination against homosexuals.

See here's the thing... you can call me ignorant in my views toward gay marriage... and I can call you ignorant in your understanding of Christianity... we can go in circles all day long, I am not interested in that.

My entire point is that I live my life according to my morals as a Christian. Being a Christian is not something you are sometimes but then as soon as you go to vote you throw out the window. Chritianity is all encompassing and it is the way I make my decisions.

I can love my friend who is living with her boyfriend... that doesnt mean I agree with her lifestyle. I can love my cousin who is a gay man living with his partner- but that does not mean I have to agree with his lifestyle.

I choose not to vote for or against gay marriage- God gave us the gift of free will- we are to do with that as we see fit. Having the opinion that gay marriage is not ok and being anti-gay are two very, very different things. I love people for who they are, not for what they do, because we are all humans and none of us are perfect.

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

Karschingham:

I don't like the name board. Or asking strangers (no offense!!) what they think I should name my babe, I think it should be something for you and your family and whatever you like go for it! that's all.

OH and MrsOdonnell...super jealous that you can get Ellen tickets anytime! swing by Iowa and I'll pay half for Cali!

Road trip?

Karschingham · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
Karschingham:

I don't like the name board. Or asking strangers (no offense!!) what they think I should name my babe, I think it should be something for you and your family and whatever you like go for it! that's all.

OH and MrsOdonnell...super jealous that you can get Ellen tickets anytime! swing by Iowa and I'll pay half for Cali!

Road trip?

TOTALLY IN!!!!!! I would pee my pants (not that I don't do this sometimes anyway lol) but in a super excited way!

RachelG1016 · July 2012

I don't like to get into the anti gay discussions but my solution is this.

Let people who want to get married in a church get married. Then you are married in the eyes of God.

If you want all of the tax benefits you also have to have a civil ceremony at a courthouse and that should be open to opposite and same sex couples.

Problem solved!

kenna_4 · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

Whoa! Disagree. How does it not?

kenna_4 · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Well, as I said, I certainly don't feel that any churches whose interpretation of the Bible tells them that homosexuality is wrong should be forced to perform marriages they don't agree with. But it's still anti-gay to say that who a person is is wrong (whatever your basis) and they shouldn't be allowed the same things the rest of us are. It just is. I guess I don't understand the whole "government shouldn't be involved in marriage" thing at all. Maybe it makes me feel better about it that you don't think anyone should be entitled to civil marriage? Or maybe it makes me feel worse because that goes against a lot of people. I mean... there are obviously a lot of benefits/rights that come along with marriage. I don't really see how it's fair to say that people married outside of a religious union shouldn't be entitled to those things. I mean, God doesn't have much to do with my being entitled to my husband's insurance benefits, you know? I don't understand how that could go against one's religion.

And this is the whole reason for us disagreeing on the issue.... I view things through my religious lense... you do not. Everything in my life has to do with God.... in my life there is no separation of church and state... my morals are my morals no matter what situation I am in.

My point in my PP was that marriage IMO is a religious ceremony between a man, a woman and God... and therefore I would be fine with the government staying out of my marriage. I get that without the state being involved, my husband could not be on my insurance through work- I compeltely understand that. It is a complicated issue- but at the base of it, for me, marriage is a religious institution. It's fine if you disagree with me on that, as a lot of people do, but you also wont change my mind, just like I will not change your mind.

Well I hope you wouldn't attend a wedding that isn't in a church then.....

littlemaybaby · July 2012

So not expecting to change anyone's mind . . . here is the problem with the gay marriage debate. Religious people don't differ between the religious definition of marriage and the legal definition of marriage. Which is fine. In their minds the two are inextricably intertwined.

Here is the problem with that. There is a strictly legal definition of marriage. It is 100% legal for a man and woman to go to a justice of the peace, get married by a judge, and have the same LEGAL marriage protections provided to a couple married in a church. A man and woman can legally get married for insurance benefits. A man and a woman can legally get married for legal protections afforded only to a spouse. A man and woman can get married for PR purposes (hello Britney Spears and Kim K).

My husband and I had a VERY non-religious ceremony, not overseen by a religious official - rather a legal one. Should our marriage be illegal?

Whether or not you believe there *should* be a difference in religious and legal marriage - CLEARLY there is one. The insurance benefits provided to a spouse do not come from being in a union blessed by a church. They come from being in a union legalized by the state.

And if it is legal for 2 atheists of opposite sex to be legally married by a judge then it is blatant and absolute discrimination to not afford that same LEGAL right to a same sex couple.

knitsandgiggles · July 2012

jdm7:
Necack:

Im the same way. I live in pittsburgh and I hate the Steelers which is like swearing around here. I hate going to game parties for the exact same reason. In truth inmate all sports, fortunately so does DH. But my whole family, and surrounding community for that matter, acts like sports are the end all be all of life. I hate it. Most of the time, I really could give two craps about teams and the drama that surrounds them, but the penn state situation isn't so much about the team as it is about those poor children, and that is what gets my attention.
I grew up in Pittsburgh (moved away 5 years ago), you shut your potty mouth!!! LOL

That's what I'm sayin'! I was born and raised in Pittsburgh (also moved away now, but it will always be home!). Pretty sure my first word was Steelers, lol. Wink

TRobRN · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

For Real!

brittandjp · July 2012

Ohh man, you'll have to forgive me! My overwhelming POUNDING headache is taking over all thoughts and I'm unable to produce them on my own. That being said, I'm piggybacking off y'all.

1. I can't believe so many people hate Ellen! I absolutely love her - I think she's hilarious and let's be honest, her wife is hot. I'm not even kidding, going to a show is on my bucket list.

2. I also think Kristin Stewart is gross.

3. I do hate football. I like the socializing aspect of tailgating and Super Bowl, but really, that's because I like to overindulge myself with booze, stuff my face with fattening food, and spend time with my friends.

4. I also think it's okay to complain about your job. I'm a teacher and absolutely love my job, but there are some days I hate it. There are some students I can't stand, coworkers that annoy me, and parents that make me want to poke my eyes out. That being said, I don't think I should lose my job. I'm really good at what I do and the pros certainly outweigh the cons, but sometimes a girl's gotta b!tch.

Oh..and this thread was a little too religious for me today.

mamak0328 · July 2012

knittylady:
jdm7:
Necack:

Im the same way. I live in pittsburgh and I hate the Steelers which is like swearing around here. I hate going to game parties for the exact same reason. In truth inmate all sports, fortunately so does DH. But my whole family, and surrounding community for that matter, acts like sports are the end all be all of life. I hate it. Most of the time, I really could give two craps about teams and the drama that surrounds them, but the penn state situation isn't so much about the team as it is about those poor children, and that is what gets my attention.
I grew up in Pittsburgh (moved away 5 years ago), you shut your potty mouth!!! LOL
That's what I'm sayin'! I was born and raised in Pittsburgh (also moved away now, but it will always be home!). Pretty sure my first word was Steelers, lol.

I can't stand the Steelers! Ravens fan here! I have a good friend who is a Steelers fan. Things get interesting during football season.

hansonam446 · July 2012

ssisland:
hansonam446:
I try to be understanding of everyone's beliefs. I know not everyone will agree with me but I just don't get Log Cabin Republicans. How can you be affiliated with people who don't want you to marry your SO?
It is likely a matter of these individuals picking the party that they feel supports the majority of their beliefs. Maybe marriage isn't really that big of a deal for these individuals compared with many other issues. There probably aren't many individuals out there that can say 100% of the beliefs of one party or the other align with what they believe. I think many individuals that are part of the Log Cabin Republicans just want the role of government in their lives limited and they feel that aligning with the Republican party is the best option. Though many would argue that the Libertarian Party platform is even better.

Exactly, they're Independents. And it's ok to admit that!

akating · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
Karschingham:

I don't like the name board. Or asking strangers (no offense!!) what they think I should name my babe, I think it should be something for you and your family and whatever you like go for it! that's all.

OH and MrsOdonnell...super jealous that you can get Ellen tickets anytime! swing by Iowa and I'll pay half for Cali!

Road trip?

Hey now! What about me? I thought we were friends :: sniffles::

hansonam446 · July 2012

MrsRiceARoni:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

Hmm.... thats not true at all. I posted this in the UO thread because I know that it's an UO. I understand that if you are not religious then you will not understand my reasoning... which I clearly explained in my OPs. We look at things/life differently. I completely disagree that this is the same thing as segregated schools and drinking fountains.

It is wrong according to my religious beliefs. There is really no reason for me to even be discussing this because if you do not have the same religious convictions then it is nearly impossible to even have the conversation.

I understand that you posted this on UO. That said, you can't expect to make anti-gay remarks and not have anyone challenge you about this. I believe I was respectful in my response, despite how ignorant I find your comments.

I also understand this goes against your religious beliefs, which you are entitled to. However, here in America we have a separation of Church and State. Thank goodness we do not live in a country governed by the Church -- such as some of the countries in the Middle East where religion is used as a weapon to keep other people down who may have differing beliefs, be of a different gender, etc.The whole point of separation of Church and State is that it allows religious freedom for everyone while protecting people of different beliefs EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW.

My point is that marriage is NOT a religious institution as it is recognized by the American government and has an impact on things like taxes. I respect that homosexuals will not be getting married by within the church you attend - I don't take issue with that. However, your church's religious beliefs should not stop a homosexual couple from being able to walk down to City Hall and get married, like all of the rest of us heterosexual folks can.

I find it interesting that you don't see the similarities between the discrimination of blacks and the discrimination against homosexuals.

I find it comical when people use the idea of seperation of church and state to try to keep churches from influencing the government, but at the same time have no problem with the government attacking churches. As for marrige not being a religious institution, to those of us that believe that God created marriage it is. He created marriage far before government ever existed so he gets to determine how it is defined. Obviously that wont stop the government from trying to change how marriage is defined, but atleast for now most states still recognize marriage as being between a man and a woman like it was when it was originally started back with Adam and Eve.

While I understand what you're saying, God didn't "create" marriage. It was around long before Christianity. I'm not going to get into a religious debate but ancient societies such as the Egyptians and Greeks had marriage ceremonies so Christianity doesn't get the exclusive rights to the word.

brittandjp · July 2012

akating:
mrsodonnell12:
Karschingham:

I don't like the name board. Or asking strangers (no offense!!) what they think I should name my babe, I think it should be something for you and your family and whatever you like go for it! that's all.

OH and MrsOdonnell...super jealous that you can get Ellen tickets anytime! swing by Iowa and I'll pay half for Cali!

Road trip?

Hey now! What about me? I thought we were friends :: sniffles::

Y'all aren't allowed to go to an Ellen show without me! I'm in AZ, so Cali is right next door!

mamak0328 · July 2012

brittandjp:
akating:
mrsodonnell12:
Karschingham:

I don't like the name board. Or asking strangers (no offense!!) what they think I should name my babe, I think it should be something for you and your family and whatever you like go for it! that's all.

OH and MrsOdonnell...super jealous that you can get Ellen tickets anytime! swing by Iowa and I'll pay half for Cali!

Road trip?

Hey now! What about me? I thought we were friends :: sniffles::
Y'all aren't allowed to go to an Ellen show without me! I'm in AZ, so Cali is right next door!

Come get me in MD and then road trip to see Ellen and pick everyone up along the way lol.

e_uecker · July 2012

littlemaybaby:

So not expecting to change anyone's mind . . . here is the problem with the gay marriage debate. Religious people don't differ between the religious definition of marriage and the legal definition of marriage. Which is fine. In their minds the two are inextricably intertwined.

Here is the problem with that. There is a strictly legal definition of marriage. It is 100% legal for a man and woman to go to a justice of the peace, get married by a judge, and have the same LEGAL marriage protections provided to a couple married in a church. A man and woman can legally get married for insurance benefits. A man and a woman can legally get married for legal protections afforded only to a spouse. A man and woman can get married for PR purposes (hello Britney Spears and Kim K).

My husband and I had a VERY non-religious ceremony, not overseen by a religious official - rather a legal one. Should our marriage be illegal?

Whether or not you believe there *should* be a difference in religious and legal marriage - CLEARLY there is one. The insurance benefits provided to a spouse do not come from being in a union blessed by a church. They come from being in a union legalized by the state.

And if it is legal for 2 atheists of opposite sex to be legally married by a judge then it is blatant and absolute discrimination to not afford that same LEGAL right to a same sex couple.

This entirely. Thank you for putting it in words much better than my aggravated mind could.

TRobRN · July 2012

mamak0328:
brittandjp:
akating:
mrsodonnell12:
Karschingham:

I don't like the name board. Or asking strangers (no offense!!) what they think I should name my babe, I think it should be something for you and your family and whatever you like go for it! that's all.

OH and MrsOdonnell...super jealous that you can get Ellen tickets anytime! swing by Iowa and I'll pay half for Cali!

Road trip?

Hey now! What about me? I thought we were friends :: sniffles::

Y'all aren't allowed to go to an Ellen show without me! I'm in AZ, so Cali is right next door!

Come get me in MD and then road trip to see Ellen and pick everyone up along the way lol.

Now THAT sounds like a PLAN!!! I'll be last stop before LA! Yes Wink

mindy0711 · July 2012

mamak0328:
knittylady:
jdm7:
Necack:

Im the same way. I live in pittsburgh and I hate the Steelers which is like swearing around here. I hate going to game parties for the exact same reason. In truth inmate all sports, fortunately so does DH. But my whole family, and surrounding community for that matter, acts like sports are the end all be all of life. I hate it. Most of the time, I really could give two craps about teams and the drama that surrounds them, but the penn state situation isn't so much about the team as it is about those poor children, and that is what gets my attention.

I grew up in Pittsburgh (moved away 5 years ago), you shut your potty mouth!!! LOL

That's what I'm sayin'! I was born and raised in Pittsburgh (also moved away now, but it will always be home!). Pretty sure my first word was Steelers, lol.

I can't stand the Steelers! Ravens fan here! I have a good friend who is a Steelers fan. Things get interesting during football season.

Another Ravens fan!!!!!!! Two weeks until the first preseason game, I cannot wait!! Do you live in MD??? My BIL is from Pittsburgh and has brainwashed my SIL and now niece into becoming steelers fans...so football season gets REAL interesting! We usually go to the Steelers, Ravens game in Baltimore.....the ride home is usually really quiet!

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

kenna_4:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:
sbevmc09:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

It does though on a basic level. If you don't support gay marriage then you're saying that these people aren't entitled to the same rights that other people have. Because marriage is a civil institution it's extremely unfair to restrict which people are eligible to the benefits.

I know some people who say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, but I don't have a problem with people who are gay". I guess that's better than nothing, but you're still saying that they're different than the rest of us and shouldn't have the same opportunities we do just because of who they are. It seems that homosexuals are the only group that it's somewhat socially acceptable to say that about. I don't get it. Why does anyone care who marries who? If a religion doesn't want to support it because of their interpretation of the Bible, then so be it, but marriage is a civil institution in our society.

ETA: Would it be okay for the government to say that two people of different religions aren't allowed to marry? What about people of two different races? Of course not. Neither of those would fly in this day and age. So what's the deal with them being able to say that two citizens aren't allowed to marry specifically because those two citizens are the same sex. I'm sorry, I just see this as a very black and white issue. Two people getting married isn't threatening me or my marriage in any way regardless of who those people are.

I dont support gay marriage for religious reasons. I didnt say anything about the government interfering in it. As far as I am concerned, teh government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all- to me it is a religious ceremony. I dont support anything that is against my religion- including this.

Well, as I said, I certainly don't feel that any churches whose interpretation of the Bible tells them that homosexuality is wrong should be forced to perform marriages they don't agree with. But it's still anti-gay to say that who a person is is wrong (whatever your basis) and they shouldn't be allowed the same things the rest of us are. It just is. I guess I don't understand the whole "government shouldn't be involved in marriage" thing at all. Maybe it makes me feel better about it that you don't think anyone should be entitled to civil marriage? Or maybe it makes me feel worse because that goes against a lot of people. I mean... there are obviously a lot of benefits/rights that come along with marriage. I don't really see how it's fair to say that people married outside of a religious union shouldn't be entitled to those things. I mean, God doesn't have much to do with my being entitled to my husband's insurance benefits, you know? I don't understand how that could go against one's religion.

And this is the whole reason for us disagreeing on the issue.... I view things through my religious lense... you do not. Everything in my life has to do with God.... in my life there is no separation of church and state... my morals are my morals no matter what situation I am in.

My point in my PP was that marriage IMO is a religious ceremony between a man, a woman and God... and therefore I would be fine with the government staying out of my marriage. I get that without the state being involved, my husband could not be on my insurance through work- I compeltely understand that. It is a complicated issue- but at the base of it, for me, marriage is a religious institution. It's fine if you disagree with me on that, as a lot of people do, but you also wont change my mind, just like I will not change your mind.

Well I hope you wouldn't attend a wedding that isn't in a church then.....

How does that make any sense at all?

pghctwife · July 2012

sbevmc09:
ssisland:
hansonam446:
I try to be understanding of everyone's beliefs. I know not everyone will agree with me but I just don't get Log Cabin Republicans. How can you be affiliated with people who don't want you to marry your SO?
It is likely a matter of these individuals picking the party that they feel supports the majority of their beliefs. Maybe marriage isn't really that big of a deal for these individuals compared with many other issues. There probably aren't many individuals out there that can say 100% of the beliefs of one party or the other align with what they believe. I think many individuals that are part of the Log Cabin Republicans just want the role of government in their lives limited and they feel that aligning with the Republican party is the best option. Though many would argue that the Libertarian Party platform is even better.

I think that what you're saying makes sense, ssisland, but something I don't understand (and anyone, please feel free to inform me) is for a group whose beliefs lie in restricting governmental power/involvement in our lives why then are they so obsessed with dictating who can civilly marry? It doesn't seem to align with their purported beliefs, KWIM?

I didn't see that anyone replied to this.

Well, many democrat politicians don't support it either. The President only VERY recently came out in support of gay marriage. So I don't really think that the DNC necessarily has the moral high ground here.

Im a registered Republican and consider myself politically conservative. I don't have any issue with gay marriage, though I prefer to see that issue (and basically everything not outlined in the constitution) handled at the state level. Small government generally means that issues that are not specifically listed in the constitution are issues the fed has no jurisdiction over and therefore below to the states (or no one). I don't personally want the fed govt involved in ANY marriages. There are people who are anti gay marriage in the party and I don't agree with them at all. But... Ive spent a lot of time in western PA where there are a lot of union democrats and... trust... the GOP doesn't have a monopoly on this.

I do not vote based on social issues at all (abortion included). For me, economic issues and issues of national defense are my big deal breaker issues. The latter is why I can not align libertarian.

I mean, there is never going to be a perfect party or a perfect candidate for every voter. We ALL need to make decisions about what issues are important enough to us to base our vote on.

pghctwife · July 2012

Oh and?

Steelers fan by marriage. I lived in Pgh for 8 years and HATED them while I was there but DH is a fan sooo. We have the agreement that our kids will be raised as Steelers fans and UCONN fans. That was our compromise lol.

Sports fan in general, though the Olympics are more my speed than the big US sports. And as a former NCAA Div 1 scholarship athlete myself... I think the PSU decision was right on. And OF COURSE the NCAA should have been involved in sanctions. They are the governing body in which this occurred. There is a ton of messed up shiit in college sports and this sets a precedent which is important. Most of the current athletes will be fine but yes, they will be impacted. It sucks but in the scheme of things, a few student athletes is OK imo. And the new coaching staff knew what they were getting into

mrsodonnell12 · July 2012

hansonam446:
MrsRiceARoni:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

Hmm.... thats not true at all. I posted this in the UO thread because I know that it's an UO. I understand that if you are not religious then you will not understand my reasoning... which I clearly explained in my OPs. We look at things/life differently. I completely disagree that this is the same thing as segregated schools and drinking fountains.

It is wrong according to my religious beliefs. There is really no reason for me to even be discussing this because if you do not have the same religious convictions then it is nearly impossible to even have the conversation.

I understand that you posted this on UO. That said, you can't expect to make anti-gay remarks and not have anyone challenge you about this. I believe I was respectful in my response, despite how ignorant I find your comments.

I also understand this goes against your religious beliefs, which you are entitled to. However, here in America we have a separation of Church and State. Thank goodness we do not live in a country governed by the Church -- such as some of the countries in the Middle East where religion is used as a weapon to keep other people down who may have differing beliefs, be of a different gender, etc.The whole point of separation of Church and State is that it allows religious freedom for everyone while protecting people of different beliefs EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW.

My point is that marriage is NOT a religious institution as it is recognized by the American government and has an impact on things like taxes. I respect that homosexuals will not be getting married by within the church you attend - I don't take issue with that. However, your church's religious beliefs should not stop a homosexual couple from being able to walk down to City Hall and get married, like all of the rest of us heterosexual folks can.

I find it interesting that you don't see the similarities between the discrimination of blacks and the discrimination against homosexuals.

I find it comical when people use the idea of seperation of church and state to try to keep churches from influencing the government, but at the same time have no problem with the government attacking churches. As for marrige not being a religious institution, to those of us that believe that God created marriage it is. He created marriage far before government ever existed so he gets to determine how it is defined. Obviously that wont stop the government from trying to change how marriage is defined, but atleast for now most states still recognize marriage as being between a man and a woman like it was when it was originally started back with Adam and Eve.

While I understand what you're saying, God didn't "create" marriage. It was around long before Christianity. I'm not going to get into a religious debate but ancient societies such as the Egyptians and Greeks had marriage ceremonies so Christianity doesn't get the exclusive rights to the word.

Adam and Eve were before the Greeks and Egyptians.

RachelG1016 · July 2012

mrsodonnell12:
hansonam446:
MrsRiceARoni:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:
nycitygirl1:
mrsodonnell12:

Not supporting gay marriage DOES NOT equal anti gay.

I think a lot of people might disagree with you there, since getting married affords certain benefits (both financial, social, legal, and emotional) and this is civil rights issue more than anything else. I think we covered "separate but equal" (which is a fallacy) back when schools and water fountains were segregated and this is the same thing.

You have a right to your opinion and me to mine, but I don't like when people claim that stripping someone of basic rights that all other heterosexual people have is somehow not "anti-gay." By that same argument, a white person who thinks blacks should also go to their own schools would not be "anti-black."

Hmm.... thats not true at all. I posted this in the UO thread because I know that it's an UO. I understand that if you are not religious then you will not understand my reasoning... which I clearly explained in my OPs. We look at things/life differently. I completely disagree that this is the same thing as segregated schools and drinking fountains.

It is wrong according to my religious beliefs. There is really no reason for me to even be discussing this because if you do not have the same religious convictions then it is nearly impossible to even have the conversation.

I understand that you posted this on UO. That said, you can't expect to make anti-gay remarks and not have anyone challenge you about this. I believe I was respectful in my response, despite how ignorant I find your comments.

I also understand this goes against your religious beliefs, which you are entitled to. However, here in America we have a separation of Church and State. Thank goodness we do not live in a country governed by the Church -- such as some of the countries in the Middle East where religion is used as a weapon to keep other people down who may have differing beliefs, be of a different gender, etc.The whole point of separation of Church and State is that it allows religious freedom for everyone while protecting people of different beliefs EQUALLY UNDER THE LAW.

My point is that marriage is NOT a religious institution as it is recognized by the American government and has an impact on things like taxes. I respect that homosexuals will not be getting married by within the church you attend - I don't take issue with that. However, your church's religious beliefs should not stop a homosexual couple from being able to walk down to City Hall and get married, like all of the rest of us heterosexual folks can.

I find it interesting that you don't see the similarities between the discrimination of blacks and the discrimination against homosexuals.

I find it comical when people use the idea of seperation of church and state to try to keep churches from influencing the government, but at the same time have no problem with the government attacking churches. As for marrige not being a religious institution, to those of us that believe that God created marriage it is. He created marriage far before government ever existed so he gets to determine how it is defined. Obviously that wont stop the government from trying to change how marriage is defined, but atleast for now most states still recognize marriage as being between a man and a woman like it was when it was originally started back with Adam and Eve.

While I understand what you're saying, God didn't "create" marriage. It was around long before Christianity. I'm not going to get into a religious debate but ancient societies such as the Egyptians and Greeks had marriage ceremonies so Christianity doesn't get the exclusive rights to the word.

Adam and Eve were before the Greeks and Egyptians.

Adam and Eve weren't Christians. Christ wasn't born until thousands of years later.

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