ks3pink - Christian with a question

DemoDoll · May 2012

Lynball:
ks3pink:
oceanrunner6:
What denomination are you? I understand you are just "stating your beliefs" but you are making all of Christianity sound narrow minded and I believe you're getting salvation wrong.
Jesus didn't say "ask my for forgiveness, but never sin again or I'll revoke your invite to heaven." I'm a pretty strong Christian and I know plenty of people who sin, whether it's lying, adultery, or any of the other countless sins we as people commit. It doesn't mean we're not saved anymore. What makes being "actively gay" any more of a sin than anything else?
Where in the Bible does it say being actively gay means you're no longer saved? I'd honestly like to know, as I've never run in to this type of scripture.
I'm trying not to come across as attacking you, but I am honestly so disappointed when I read comments like yours from seemingly Christian people. You give those of us who are not quite so narrow minded a really bad name.
Marriage is a covenant created by God. Marriage was created by God to join together a man and a woman. Therefore being gay would be going directly against God. Yes people who are saved sin, I never said they didn't, but you don't live in sin purposefully just because you haved been saved. And yes living in sin can mean much more than being gay, that was just the topic we got on.

The laws in the Old Testament were set forth by god as the rules the Hebrews needed to follow in order to be righteous, to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and to be able to get into Heaven. That is also why they were required to make sacrifices, because it was part of the appeasement for Original Sin.
According to Christian theology, when Jesus came from Heaven, it was for the express purpose of sacrificing himself on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate act that would free us from the former laws and regulations and allow us to enter Heaven by acting in his image. That is why he said ?it is finished? when he died on the cross. That is why Christians don?t have to circumcise their sons (god?s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don?t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus.
When you quote Leviticus as god?s law and say they are rules we must follow because they are what god or Jesus wants us to do, what you are really saying, as a Christian, is that Christ?s sacrifice on the cross was invalid. He died in vain because you believe we are still beholden to the old laws. That is what you, a self-professed good Christian, are saying to your god and his son, that their plan for your salvation wasn?t good enough for you.
So maybe actually read the thing before you start quoting it, because the implications of your actions go a lot deeper than you think.

Very well put! I also believe there were laws put forth from the Old Testament that we don't really need to follow in this day and age. For example, not eating pork. Back then, refrigeration wasn't like it is today. I think God has this law to protect us.

And yes, the Old Testament clearly says not to sleep with another man if you are a man. God wiped out a whole city that was performing this sin. But God also said that a man shouldn't lay with a woman when she has her period....

Why does our society like to pick and chose which things to follow in the bible and point them out as sin but not other things? I believe that the ten commandments are the ultimate guideline for a Christian to follow....and none of these "laws" are in the ten commandments, including being gay.

Whittyone12 · May 2012

kelnyc:
She said she's baptist.

I too am a baptist and I was always taught from a very young age that you love people despite thier sins. That judgement is left in gods hands and that Jesus died to save us all not just those of us who commit sins that are acceptable in the eyes of other Christians. All sins are equal in the eyes of god and if he can forgive liars,thieves, and murderers then I'm sure there is a place in heaven for someone who is gay.

ks3pink · May 2012

Lynball:
ks3pink:
oceanrunner6:

What denomination are you? I understand you are just "stating your beliefs" but you are making all of Christianity sound narrow minded and I believe you're getting salvation wrong.

Jesus didn't say "ask my for forgiveness, but never sin again or I'll revoke your invite to heaven." I'm a pretty strong Christian and I know plenty of people who sin, whether it's lying, adultery, or any of the other countless sins we as people commit. It doesn't mean we're not saved anymore. What makes being "actively gay" any more of a sin than anything else?

Where in the Bible does it say being actively gay means you're no longer saved? I'd honestly like to know, as I've never run in to this type of scripture.

I'm trying not to come across as attacking you, but I am honestly so disappointed when I read comments like yours from seemingly Christian people. You give those of us who are not quite so narrow minded a really bad name.

Marriage is a covenant created by God. Marriage was created by God to join together a man and a woman. Therefore being gay would be going directly against God. Yes people who are saved sin, I never said they didn't, but you don't live in sin purposefully just because you haved been saved. And yes living in sin can mean much more than being gay, that was just the topic we got on.

The laws in the Old Testament were set forth by god as the rules the Hebrews needed to follow in order to be righteous, to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and to be able to get into Heaven. That is also why they were required to make sacrifices, because it was part of the appeasement for Original Sin.

According to Christian theology, when Jesus came from Heaven, it was for the express purpose of sacrificing himself on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate act that would free us from the former laws and regulations and allow us to enter Heaven by acting in his image. That is why he said ?it is finished? when he died on the cross. That is why Christians don?t have to circumcise their sons (god?s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don?t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus.

When you quote Leviticus as god?s law and say they are rules we must follow because they are what god or Jesus wants us to do, what you are really saying, as a Christian, is that Christ?s sacrifice on the cross was invalid. He died in vain because you believe we are still beholden to the old laws. That is what you, a self-professed good Christian, are saying to your god and his son, that their plan for your salvation wasn?t good enough for you.

So maybe actually read the thing before you start quoting it, because the implications of your actions go a lot deeper than you think.

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

cfresned · May 2012

jessibel00:

Why does the anti-gay side always focus on sex? It's like you all assume that all gay people do is have sex, which is what I believe you think the sin is? What is wrong with 2 people loving each other? I would hate for people to look at my marriage and only see sex and not the mutual love and commitment I have with my husband.

If you don't believe homosexuality is right, don't do it. Don't push YOUR religious beliefs onto other people and try and condem them for not following YOUR religion. You only have control over your life and your decisions, quit trying to control everyone else's.

Well said!

ks3pink · May 2012

Scout2005:
ks3pink:

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

You know ks3pink, you really need to stop arrogantly assuming you're the only one here who has ever gone to Church or heard a sermon. People disagreeing with you =/= that person does not attend Church or has never read the Bible.

That seems to be your fallback retort here, and it's making you look very, very foolish. The truth is, not all pastors or Churches agree with your prejudices.

I've listened to plenty of sermons. They all said the same as Lynball; the reason we Christians can eat bacon and wear mixed cloth is because Jesus created a new covenant . Picking and choosing to only believe the part of the Old Testament that is homophobic speaks to you, not Christianity. I will put good money down right now that you don't follow the animal sacrifice and rituals also laid out in Leviticus. Those are also God's word.

So whose sermon wins, mine or yours? Why do you find it acceptable to cherry pick from the Old Testament? And why only pick the parts that make you a bigot? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not cherry picking I am addressing what is being discussed. It always amazes me how hard people like to argue against religious statements.

As far as whose sermon wins, it would be the one preaching the truth.

Rhomonk · May 2012

Scout2005:

You know ks3pink, you really need to stop arrogantly assuming you're the only one here who has ever gone to Church or heard a sermon. People disagreeing with you =/= that person does not attend Church or has never read the Bible.

That seems to be your fallback retort here, and it's making you look very, very foolish. The truth is, not all pastors or Churches agree with your prejudices.

I've listened to plenty of sermons. They all said the same as Lynball; the reason we Christians can eat bacon and wear mixed cloth is because Jesus created a new covenant . Picking and choosing to only believe the part of the Old Testament that is homophobic speaks to you, not Christianity. I will put good money down right now that you don't follow the animal sacrifice and rituals also laid out in Leviticus. Those are also God's word.

So whose sermon wins, mine or yours? Why do you find it acceptable to cherry pick from the Old Testament? And why only pick the parts that make you a bigot? Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes

This reminds me of this great scene from the West Wing. Enjoy, if you have never seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-ip47WYWc

rp-chicago-mom · May 2012

ks3pink:
Scout2005:
ks3pink:

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

You know ks3pink, you really need to stop arrogantly assuming you're the only one here who has ever gone to Church or heard a sermon. People disagreeing with you =/= that person does not attend Church or has never read the Bible.

That seems to be your fallback retort here, and it's making you look very, very foolish. The truth is, not all pastors or Churches agree with your prejudices.

I've listened to plenty of sermons. They all said the same as Lynball; the reason we Christians can eat bacon and wear mixed cloth is because Jesus created a new covenant . Picking and choosing to only believe the part of the Old Testament that is homophobic speaks to you, not Christianity. I will put good money down right now that you don't follow the animal sacrifice and rituals also laid out in Leviticus. Those are also God's word.

So whose sermon wins, mine or yours? Why do you find it acceptable to cherry pick from the Old Testament? And why only pick the parts that make you a bigot? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not cherry picking I am addressing what is being discussed. It always amazes me how hard people like to argue against religious statements.

As far as whose sermon wins, it would be the one preaching the truth.

You still haven't answered the question. That has got to be my biggest peeve. That says nothing to explain why your very UO is that your Bible should be used to make laws in a nation that deliberately keeps faith out of its politics.

ks3pink · May 2012

Baker_Bride:
ks3pink:
Scout2005:
ks3pink:

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

You know ks3pink, you really need to stop arrogantly assuming you're the only one here who has ever gone to Church or heard a sermon. People disagreeing with you =/= that person does not attend Church or has never read the Bible.

That seems to be your fallback retort here, and it's making you look very, very foolish. The truth is, not all pastors or Churches agree with your prejudices.

I've listened to plenty of sermons. They all said the same as Lynball; the reason we Christians can eat bacon and wear mixed cloth is because Jesus created a new covenant . Picking and choosing to only believe the part of the Old Testament that is homophobic speaks to you, not Christianity. I will put good money down right now that you don't follow the animal sacrifice and rituals also laid out in Leviticus. Those are also God's word.

So whose sermon wins, mine or yours? Why do you find it acceptable to cherry pick from the Old Testament? And why only pick the parts that make you a bigot? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not cherry picking I am addressing what is being discussed. It always amazes me how hard people like to argue against religious statements.

As far as whose sermon wins, it would be the one preaching the truth.

You still haven't answered the question. That has got to be my biggest peeve. That says nothing to explain why your very UO is that your Bible should be used to make laws in a nation that deliberately keeps faith out of its politics.

That is precisely the problem. We are one nation under God but we think its ok to ignore him. :sigh: I have explained my beliefs until I'm blue in the face and don't have time to keep repeating myself. Obviously some people are going to argue just as much for their side as that is their belief. To each his own, I just wanted to get the facts out there and I think there have been a lot of good biblical facts as a result of these posts.

Lynball · May 2012

ks3pink:
Lynball:
ks3pink:
oceanrunner6:

What denomination are you? I understand you are just "stating your beliefs" but you are making all of Christianity sound narrow minded and I believe you're getting salvation wrong.

Jesus didn't say "ask my for forgiveness, but never sin again or I'll revoke your invite to heaven." I'm a pretty strong Christian and I know plenty of people who sin, whether it's lying, adultery, or any of the other countless sins we as people commit. It doesn't mean we're not saved anymore. What makes being "actively gay" any more of a sin than anything else?

Where in the Bible does it say being actively gay means you're no longer saved? I'd honestly like to know, as I've never run in to this type of scripture.

I'm trying not to come across as attacking you, but I am honestly so disappointed when I read comments like yours from seemingly Christian people. You give those of us who are not quite so narrow minded a really bad name.

Marriage is a covenant created by God. Marriage was created by God to join together a man and a woman. Therefore being gay would be going directly against God. Yes people who are saved sin, I never said they didn't, but you don't live in sin purposefully just because you haved been saved. And yes living in sin can mean much more than being gay, that was just the topic we got on.

The laws in the Old Testament were set forth by god as the rules the Hebrews needed to follow in order to be righteous, to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and to be able to get into Heaven. That is also why they were required to make sacrifices, because it was part of the appeasement for Original Sin.

According to Christian theology, when Jesus came from Heaven, it was for the express purpose of sacrificing himself on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate act that would free us from the former laws and regulations and allow us to enter Heaven by acting in his image. That is why he said ?it is finished? when he died on the cross. That is why Christians don?t have to circumcise their sons (god?s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don?t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus.

When you quote Leviticus as god?s law and say they are rules we must follow because they are what god or Jesus wants us to do, what you are really saying, as a Christian, is that Christ?s sacrifice on the cross was invalid. He died in vain because you believe we are still beholden to the old laws. That is what you, a self-professed good Christian, are saying to your god and his son, that their plan for your salvation wasn?t good enough for you.

So maybe actually read the thing before you start quoting it, because the implications of your actions go a lot deeper than you think.

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

If you had actually taken off your close-minded glasses and READ what I wrote.... you'd see that I never disagreed with anything of the points you just made. What it means is Jesus died because NONE of us are perfect. Any sin we commit, purposefully or not, is forgiven through him and his death. That was the purpose. Should you go out and rob a guy just because you'll be forgiven? No, of course not.

And you telling me that he died for our sins isn't exactly a news flash, sister. I did the whole church thing for most of my young life. (Stopped going to get a job and be a responsible adult.) I've read the Bible front to back about.... 3 times now. I also have the memory and reading comprehension skills to be able to MAKE SENSE of what's in there.

You being a bigot is on you. Hey! Didn't Jesus say we should love our neighbor? Where and when did He ever preach hate? Yep... thought so. Way to go.

Lynball · May 2012

ks3pink:
Baker_Bride:
ks3pink:
Scout2005:
ks3pink:

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

You know ks3pink, you really need to stop arrogantly assuming you're the only one here who has ever gone to Church or heard a sermon. People disagreeing with you =/= that person does not attend Church or has never read the Bible.

That seems to be your fallback retort here, and it's making you look very, very foolish. The truth is, not all pastors or Churches agree with your prejudices.

I've listened to plenty of sermons. They all said the same as Lynball; the reason we Christians can eat bacon and wear mixed cloth is because Jesus created a new covenant . Picking and choosing to only believe the part of the Old Testament that is homophobic speaks to you, not Christianity. I will put good money down right now that you don't follow the animal sacrifice and rituals also laid out in Leviticus. Those are also God's word.

So whose sermon wins, mine or yours? Why do you find it acceptable to cherry pick from the Old Testament? And why only pick the parts that make you a bigot? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not cherry picking I am addressing what is being discussed. It always amazes me how hard people like to argue against religious statements.

As far as whose sermon wins, it would be the one preaching the truth.

You still haven't answered the question. That has got to be my biggest peeve. That says nothing to explain why your very UO is that your Bible should be used to make laws in a nation that deliberately keeps faith out of its politics.

That is precisely the problem. We are one nation under God but we think its ok to ignore him. :sigh: I have explained my beliefs until I'm blue in the face and don't have time to keep repeating myself. Obviously some people are going to argue just as much for their side as that is their belief. To each his own, I just wanted to get the facts out there and I think there have been a lot of good biblical facts as a result of these posts.

America was founded on the basis of religious freedom.... so you are a selective reader when it comes to our country's history AND the Bible. Winner!

ChibiMommy · May 2012

ks3pink:
Baker_Bride:
ks3pink:
Scout2005:
ks3pink:

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

You know ks3pink, you really need to stop arrogantly assuming you're the only one here who has ever gone to Church or heard a sermon. People disagreeing with you =/= that person does not attend Church or has never read the Bible.

That seems to be your fallback retort here, and it's making you look very, very foolish. The truth is, not all pastors or Churches agree with your prejudices.

I've listened to plenty of sermons. They all said the same as Lynball; the reason we Christians can eat bacon and wear mixed cloth is because Jesus created a new covenant . Picking and choosing to only believe the part of the Old Testament that is homophobic speaks to you, not Christianity. I will put good money down right now that you don't follow the animal sacrifice and rituals also laid out in Leviticus. Those are also God's word.

So whose sermon wins, mine or yours? Why do you find it acceptable to cherry pick from the Old Testament? And why only pick the parts that make you a bigot? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm not cherry picking I am addressing what is being discussed. It always amazes me how hard people like to argue against religious statements.

As far as whose sermon wins, it would be the one preaching the truth.

You still haven't answered the question. That has got to be my biggest peeve. That says nothing to explain why your very UO is that your Bible should be used to make laws in a nation that deliberately keeps faith out of its politics.

That is precisely the problem. We are one nation under God but we think its ok to ignore him. :sigh: I have explained my beliefs until I'm blue in the face and don't have time to keep repeating myself. Obviously some people are going to argue just as much for their side as that is their belief. To each his own, I just wanted to get my ignorant opinion out there and I think there have been a lot of good biblical facts as a result of these posts.

There, I fixed it for you.

ks3pink · May 2012

Lynball:
ks3pink:
Lynball:
ks3pink:
oceanrunner6:

What denomination are you? I understand you are just "stating your beliefs" but you are making all of Christianity sound narrow minded and I believe you're getting salvation wrong.

Jesus didn't say "ask my for forgiveness, but never sin again or I'll revoke your invite to heaven." I'm a pretty strong Christian and I know plenty of people who sin, whether it's lying, adultery, or any of the other countless sins we as people commit. It doesn't mean we're not saved anymore. What makes being "actively gay" any more of a sin than anything else?

Where in the Bible does it say being actively gay means you're no longer saved? I'd honestly like to know, as I've never run in to this type of scripture.

I'm trying not to come across as attacking you, but I am honestly so disappointed when I read comments like yours from seemingly Christian people. You give those of us who are not quite so narrow minded a really bad name.

Marriage is a covenant created by God. Marriage was created by God to join together a man and a woman. Therefore being gay would be going directly against God. Yes people who are saved sin, I never said they didn't, but you don't live in sin purposefully just because you haved been saved. And yes living in sin can mean much more than being gay, that was just the topic we got on.

The laws in the Old Testament were set forth by god as the rules the Hebrews needed to follow in order to be righteous, to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and to be able to get into Heaven. That is also why they were required to make sacrifices, because it was part of the appeasement for Original Sin.

According to Christian theology, when Jesus came from Heaven, it was for the express purpose of sacrificing himself on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate act that would free us from the former laws and regulations and allow us to enter Heaven by acting in his image. That is why he said ?it is finished? when he died on the cross. That is why Christians don?t have to circumcise their sons (god?s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don?t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus.

When you quote Leviticus as god?s law and say they are rules we must follow because they are what god or Jesus wants us to do, what you are really saying, as a Christian, is that Christ?s sacrifice on the cross was invalid. He died in vain because you believe we are still beholden to the old laws. That is what you, a self-professed good Christian, are saying to your god and his son, that their plan for your salvation wasn?t good enough for you.

So maybe actually read the thing before you start quoting it, because the implications of your actions go a lot deeper than you think.

I fell asleep last night and there are lots of things up here to reply to but others jumped in and helped me out. Thanks!!!

As for this, just because it is in the Old Testament does not mean it is not still God's word. Just because he died for our sins does not mean we can freely live in sin knowing full well we are in the wrong. That is not how it works. I in no way think that Jesus died in vain, that is a crazy conclusion for you to draw when I have stated multiple times that he died to forgive our sins so that we may live in Heaven with him for eternity. Instead of telling me to read the Bible maybe you should listen to some sermons.

If you had actually taken off your close-minded glasses and READ what I wrote.... you'd see that I never disagreed with anything of the points you just made. What it means is Jesus died because NONE of us are perfect. Any sin we commit, purposefully or not, is forgiven through him and his death. That was the purpose. Should you go out and rob a guy just because you'll be forgiven? No, of course not.

And you telling me that he died for our sins isn't exactly a news flash, sister. I did the whole church thing for most of my young life. (Stopped going to get a job and be a responsible adult.) I've read the Bible front to back about.... 3 times now. I also have the memory and reading comprehension skills to be able to MAKE SENSE of what's in there.

You being a bigot is on you. Hey! Didn't Jesus say we should love our neighbor? Where and when did He ever preach hate? Yep... thought so. Way to go.

I have not said that I hated anyone. Just don't agree with their lifestyle and that is my choice.

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