- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
August 2012 Moms
ks3pink - Christian with a question
What denomination are you? I understand you are just "stating your beliefs" but you are making all of Christianity sound narrow minded and I believe you're getting salvation wrong.
Jesus didn't say "ask my for forgiveness, but never sin again or I'll revoke your invite to heaven." I'm a pretty strong Christian and I know plenty of people who sin, whether it's lying, adultery, or any of the other countless sins we as people commit. It doesn't mean we're not saved anymore. What makes being "actively gay" any more of a sin than anything else?
Where in the Bible does it say being actively gay means you're no longer saved? I'd honestly like to know, as I've never run in to this type of scripture.
I'm trying not to come across as attacking you, but I am honestly so disappointed when I read comments like yours from seemingly Christian people. You give those of us who are not quite so narrow minded a really bad name.
Married. A 3 year old and a 2 year old. Both girls. Pregnant with another. Someday I'll put a ticker up...
This discussion has been closed.
Re: ks3pink - Christian with a question
Just saw that, thanks. And here I thought I looked through everything before I bothered to post.
I still want to know what Scripture she's referring to. I just can't reconcile her views with my Christianity.
Great post. I was raised in a very conservative family and went to Catholic school my entire life. The #1 most important thing my parents tried to instill in me (and siblings) was to always be accepting of others and to never judge others on their sins. I'm always so disappointed when I see judemental posts from other "Christians".
My favorite scripture quote applies greatly here:
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" - Matthew 7:3
Proud Mama to cleft cutie
Marriage is a covenant created by God. Marriage was created by God to join together a man and a woman. Therefore being gay would be going directly against God. Yes people who are saved sin, I never said they didn't, but you don't live in sin purposefully just because you haved been saved. And yes living in sin can mean much more than being gay, that was just the topic we got on.
Wait, who said anything about marriage? Being inherently attracted to the same sex has nothing to do with marriage.
I don't know how to make that thumbs up sign, but you deserve it here. I was thinkin the exact same. Everyone is a sinner, why judge someone else's sins as greater than your own.
Being gay, or attracted to people of the same sex, is not in itself a sin. Practicing homosexuality, just like practicing lying or adultery, as you mentioned, is sinful.
For example, let's say a person decided to scam people for their living, say identity theft, and decided to be a Christian. If that person did not scamming people on a daily basis, I would personally wonder how they were obeying God.
I believe that making mistakes and asking forgiveness is imperative. When a person decides to commit identity theft instead of getting a legit job, they are actively going against what God wants for them. Likewise, when a gay or lesbian person decides to continue in a homosexual relationship after becoming a Christian instead of being alone, they are actively going against God.
Being a Christian means, as much as possible, putting aside our sinful nature.
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" - Romans 6:1-2a.
I think this is what ks3pink was referring to when she said "actively gay." I think pursuing a lifestyle that is not in accordance to God's law is a sin. Here is where it says that practicing homosexuality is a sin - Romans 1:24-32. I won't write all of it because it's long.
Homosexuality is not the only sin listed in this passage. I'm not sure why it receives so much more attention that adultery or any other sin that has to do with "dishonorable passions" mentioned in the passage above. Sin is sin.
I think there is forgiveness when a sin is forsaken. That doesn't mean that we don't sin again, because we will, but our motives in trying not to are what I believe really count to God.
I would never say that someone is destined to go to hell, OP; you are right with saying that. ks3pink was wrong to judge someone personally. However, her stand that actively pursuing sin, regardless of what type, can have a detrimental effect on a person's relationship with God is Biblical. Sin separates us from God.
Wow, I've written a book. I did not mean to, but I've been thinking about the previous post most of the day and it bothered me that while the grace that we, as Christians, should extend to everyone was lacking in what ks3pink wrote, she did use sound Biblical doctrine in general.
While I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you, especially about sin separating us from God, I just take issue with ks3's assertion that somehow practicing a gay lifestyle will reverse being saved. I am of the opinion that once you're saved, you're saved. I think it's a slippery slope if we say, well, this person is practicing a gay lifestyle so they're no longer saved. What's to stop us, then from saying, oops, I told a lie today, or I lost my temper, or whatever, so my salvation is gone.
I also really just cringe when people are so judgmental. I grew up Catholic and Episcopalian and am now Baptist. I think each denomination has their own issue with judging the others unnecessarily, and I have a huge problem with it. Not saying you're judging sadeathe, just making a general observation.
This is exactly what I have been trying to say all day I am just not always good at putting things into words. Thank you for making it a little clearer!
Some people do. That's between them and God. Doesn't make them less saved.
And we are not talking marriage here. At least we weren't. That's a whole different can of worms.
Yes marriage is different but it was the best example I could think of to help convey my point.
So as a Baptist, where do you draw the line on whether someone's salvation is at stake? I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm genuinely curious. Every baptist I've ever known believes that once you're saved, that's it, you're saved for life.
I understand what you're saying about living a lifestyle that's not in line with what God wants, but millions of people do that every day, and not necessarily being gay. I know in my life I have actively gone against what I knew God wanted, and that was my choice. But it didn't mean He loved me less or rejected me.
I have more to say but I feel like I'm just saying the same thing over and over and you're not answering my point.
While I agree that acting on sinful desires is sinful, Jesus says in the sermon on the mount that even the sinful desires are sin in God's eyes: Matthew 5:28 "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Just wanted to clarify what the Bible says about that.
There really aren't verses where God says he wants us to be happy. Blueletterbible.com is a really good resource to search for keywords like that. God wants his children to be obedient, then through leading a life that is pleasing to God you will have a joyful life...joy coming from knowing you are making God happy by obeying His will. If that makes sense. I know this type of teaching comes across very harsh, but that's the best explanation I've gotten about why the Bible doesn't talk about God wanting people to be happy.
ETA: There are verses that talk about being happy, but not in the way you are asking. Most of what I am seeing is along these lines: Proverbs 28:14 Happy [is] the man who is always reverent, But he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity.
That's what I saw when I read your posts. It really bothered me how everyone was attacking you when what you were saying was Biblical. If people don't like what the Bible says, that's their choice. I believe the Bible to be true, and I just wanted to try to clarify what I thought you were saying.
Love this scripture as well!! I get so frustrated with judgmental Christians. My SIL used to tell me all the time that I'm living in habitual sin because DH and I lived together before we got married. I asked her if she speeds on a daily basis, tells a lie, has a bad thought about another person, etc. Those are all sins most people do on a daily basis. Yet God still loves and forgives everyone for ALL sins. I believe in God's eyes, murder and breaking a "law of the land" like speeding are the same....all sins are equal.
Also, I never get the point of judging others. Do judgmental people think they are getting somewhere further by judging people? You gain nothing from it, you will actually be judged harder by God someday because of it....
Why does the anti-gay side always focus on sex? It's like you all assume that all gay people do is have sex, which is what I believe you think the sin is? What is wrong with 2 people loving each other? I would hate for people to look at my marriage and only see sex and not the mutual love and commitment I have with my husband.
If you don't believe homosexuality is right, don't do it. Don't push YOUR religious beliefs onto other people and try and condem them for not following YOUR religion. You only have control over your life and your decisions, quit trying to control everyone else's.
So then where do you stand on Matthew 5:27, 28? "If you look with lust upon another person, you have already committed adultery in your heart." I'm pretty sure your God is disagreeing with your interpretation and there are plenty of denominations that look at sin in this way. How do you reconcile your beliefs? Or is this just the closer to pc version you put forth into the world instead of saying what you really believe?
This is why I'm an atheist. It is just so much easier to not have to worry about this kind of thing.
I'm just curious ..
I am not a religious person .. I do not identify myself as having any certain set of beliefs .. I have opinions on what I feel is right or wrong based on what I was taught growing up and what I have learned throughout life (school, college, experience) ..
Since there seems to be so much debate over the gay/gender/sex issue that it has unleashed a crap storm of religion being thrown in all directions .. I'm not trying to be snarky .. I just really want to know ..
What do you say to those of a different religion? Do you accept what someone of another religion believes because they are a religious person? Or do you preach at them about their differences in beliefs?
I do agree that our current translations are lacking in the clarity of what the original texts said and meant, but the original texts were in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. So you can learn those languages and understand what the original text meant, but I don't see someone who is just debating theology on TB doing that...so I gave a realistic resource for those that are interested to use. However, it is not factual to say that "we can't really be sure what the original words really were and what they actually, specifically meant". If you learn the languages that the Bible was written in, you most certainly can know exactly what it says. It's not like it's all been lost in translation and no one kept an original around. My pastor teaches through the Bible giving the original text and English words that best explain it....sometimes our Bible translations aren't so great because of the English language not having the right words, just like translating Spanish to English, sometimes it doesn't quite describe the original word to it's purest meaning, but you can do your best to get the point across. So in my opinion, reading an English translation of the Bible when English is the only language you know, is not pointless, there are still things you can learn from it. However, if I were fluent in the original languages, it would be extremely pointless for me to read a translation that is not as pure as the original.
But what if God is truth? Turning a blind eye to it won't make it go away.
Yes, that is a good point. That is why I go to church to have my pastor (who has studied the original texts and meanings thoroughly) explain which things are metaphors and which things are literal. Usually the more you read the Bible, the easier it becomes to distinguish the difference, but that doesn't mean the whole Bible was translated incorrectly. If someone takes a metaphor as literal, they are misreading/misunderstanding/misusing scripture, it's not the book's fault, it's the person's.
Lol Don't bother preaching at me Sweetheart.
There is no way to be sure what is true and what is not true and I'm not going to waste time on something I don't really believe on the off chance there is a God. That's not how it works, you can't just pretend to be Christian and get into heaven and for me it would be pretend. I just don't have the God gene, it is not in me to believe in the supernatural.
To you all I say, Luke 6:42
42 How can you say to your brother, ?Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,? when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother?s eye.
This is exactly how I feel about Star Wars. And comic book movies. Blasphemy, I know.
Proud Mama to cleft cutie
Not a jumble, I agree with you on that one. I just stated my super quick opinion, and if someone disagrees, that is their right. I won't go on. I'm happy with my beliefs, and I do of course believe them to be true; if someone does not agree with me and doesn't have any interest in the idea at all, there is no point for me to continue. Also, I love wine!
"After reading Romans 1:24-32, it is abundantly clear that I made the right choice in stepping away from organized religion." - kelnyc
Actually, this is about what the Bible says. If you believe that the Bible is truth then you accept all of it. Whether they participate in organized religion is really a moot point if a person doesn't believe in the Bible.
Edit: Meant to quote, added it in afterward.
::::Lurker jumping in to answer this question:::::
Yes it does say in the old testament that a man shall not be with another man as he would a woman.
However I still don't believe that something wrote how ever long ago needs to be followed and translated like the "old times"
I think that lots of common morals are derived from verses in the Bible, and many of them are ones that you follow as well, just like the one you stated. Along with loving your mother and father, and not committing murder, etc. I think what she was going for was more along the lines of... if you say that you believe in the Bible, you can't just pick and chose which verses to believe in. If someone believes that the Bible is God's word, then it wouldn't make sense to disregard some and fully accept others.
This is just me trying to make sense of what both of you are saying. I could be totally misunderstanding both of you, (hopefully not!).
That doesn't even make sense. The Bible is the tenet of the Christian faith and where all of the teachings of organized Christian religion come from. Another poster referred to it in her post, I read it, and it appalls me. Therefore, this root aspect is one example of organized religion of the Christian faith (which is what I walked away from, Catholicism, to be exact) that is not for me, affirming my decision. I do not believe that the Bible is the truth, so I cannot prescribe myself to it.
When you said you stepped away from organized religion, I thought you meant that you were still spiritual, not that you had given up on religion, and the Bible, altogether. In your case, I would not have responded.
To clarify my statement above, I would say that religion is supposed to be rooted in the Bible, but there have been extrabiblical practices that different sects of Christianity have applied in addition to Biblical teachings.
A prime example is the Crusades during the Middle Ages. Claiming that Christ sent soldiers to reclaim the Holy Lands, after having read the Bible, seems ludicrous to me. I can't find that admonition anywhere in the Bible. And yet it was done in the name of organized religion. In that case, I can understand why someone would not want to be part of organized religion but still believe in God and the Bible.
Anyway, it does not apply to you, kelnyc, so I'm not concerned. I'm going to bed. I hope all of you ladies have a good night sleep
The laws in the Old Testament were set forth by god as the rules the Hebrews needed to follow in order to be righteous, to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and to be able to get into Heaven. That is also why they were required to make sacrifices, because it was part of the appeasement for Original Sin.
According to Christian theology, when Jesus came from Heaven, it was for the express purpose of sacrificing himself on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate act that would free us from the former laws and regulations and allow us to enter Heaven by acting in his image. That is why he said ?it is finished? when he died on the cross. That is why Christians don?t have to circumcise their sons (god?s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don?t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus.
When you quote Leviticus as god?s law and say they are rules we must follow because they are what god or Jesus wants us to do, what you are really saying, as a Christian, is that Christ?s sacrifice on the cross was invalid. He died in vain because you believe we are still beholden to the old laws. That is what you, a self-professed good Christian, are saying to your god and his son, that their plan for your salvation wasn?t good enough for you.
So maybe actually read the thing before you start quoting it, because the implications of your actions go a lot deeper than you think.